Diadem Feedback

1) Needing to unlock flight every time is unnecessary, and just wastes 5 minutes.

2) Enemies have way too much HP. I know this is because anyone in the zone can contribute, but it doesn't make for interesting fights, just extended boring ones.

3) Poor mob placement creates congestion at the 1-2 camps people have found leaving the rest of the large zone useless and unexplored.

4) Lack of party controls (to kick people not participating, or refill party slots if someone can't stay the entire run) is frustrating.

Add your critiques below, please.

I agree with all points except 2.

My only issue is, that I have been in Diadem around 10 times and haven't seen other islands than Dino Island, mostly because Dino has the best amount of IVs and they are quite close to each other too. To solve that I would like them to introduce some spawnpoint control. Maybe if too many mobs die on some island, they should stop respawning to force people to switch islands. But I think that most people would find this annoying..

Unless you want it to e a nightmare like hunts. Keep the HP the same. People have been asking for marks with more HP since hunts were released s this is pretty similar

Agreed on all of those, and to elaborate a bit on your second point, there also doesn't feel like there's really that much of a difference in the HPs of the various mobs until you get to the Rank V/* mobs, especially in Easy/Normal. Enemies that are Rank 1-2 should not take more than a minute or so to beat for a team of 8 at ilvl 190.

And, to add:
-Lack of actual rare items to gather makes gathering really uninteresting in the zone. You get your steels when you can, but otherwise the rest is pretty much junk. When a steel doesn't spawn, something else should show up, like a Legendary Node item, or otherwise there should be special collection items.
-Having to be in a party there to gather also means you have to jump through extra hoops to do it, and also burden everyone else in your party if you're going in just to do it. An option to sign up solo as a gatherer (and without the flight unlock each time) would go a long way to addressing this.
-Lack of item drop and party controls means those just going in to gather and not participate in combat can still benefit from the work of the rest of the group who's trying to farm gear, while in turn they provide their team no equal benefit. An option to either lock party roles or at least prevent changing to non-DoW/DoM classes would go a long way to addressing this.

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Originally Posted by KeluBehemoth

Unless you want it to e a nightmare like hunts. Keep the HP the same. People have been asking for marks with more HP since hunts were released s this is pretty similar

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Highly disagree. For one, it only impacts those in that instance, and contribution is weighted much differently. Plus, we're talking the rank 1-2 enemies mostly, the junk nobody wants to fight. They should take all this extra HP and actually give it to the hunt mobs, which is still an issue, and one that this does not address in any sort of way, unless they start tossing us Centurios and Allied seals for the Diadem fights.

I almost created a new thread but will post here.

I really enjoy The Diadem, however it's completely not what I expected. Is not 'exploration', it's hunts inside an instance.

However many times people tell me I can gather or do the objectives as exploration, let's face it, the focus is finding mobs and murdering them. This isn't exploring for me. I enjoy the content but they need to make it something other than zerging mobs for a chest. The fact there are already certain farm zones is also annoying and completely takes away the exploring aspect.

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Originally Posted by fortuona

1) Needing to unlock flight every time is unnecessary, and just wastes 5 minutes.

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I agree with this. If you can't get the group to work together properly it can take 15+ minutes to get everyone flying.

Half the time people tend to take off as soon as they unlock it themselves, leaving others behind.

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2) Enemies have way too much HP. I know this is because anyone in the zone can contribute, but it doesn't make for interesting fights, just extended boring ones.

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If you get several parties in one area working on the same mobs they absolutely melt even with the HP they currently have.

Cutting their HP would just mean fewer people would end up getting rewarded for contribution.

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3) Poor mob placement creates congestion at the 1-2 camps people have found leaving the rest of the large zone useless and unexplored.

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I don't think it's as much the poor mob placement as it is that some of the mobs do some damned annoying things.

I'm looking at you, sleep breath spamming turkeys.

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4) Lack of party controls (to kick people not participating, or refill party slots if someone can't stay the entire run) is frustrating.

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It's frustrating to see people doing nothing, just floating there afk and coming back every so often to roll on drops in batches. My worry would be that if vote kick was enabled, people would kick gatherers for no reason other than the fact that they're participating in the gathering content rather than the combat content. I go in there just to gather sometimes, but when I want to do so I queue as DPS and I don't roll on the item drops while I'm off doing my own thing. That way I have the least impact on the group members that want to do the combat content, but I can still accomplish what I went in there to do. Let's face it, if SE didn't want us to gather in there, there simply wouldn't be any nodes. I guess I just feel that there's some merit to doing what you can to tread lightly and get along with your other group members. I'd feel like an ass rolling on combat drops when I'm not fighting. *shrugs*

While there's merit to cooperating, there seems to be far, far more merit to not and just reaping reward of the works of others while you work only to your own end.

Perhaps another way to address this...
-Have gathering randomly generate coffers in addition to whatever they're doing. That way, they still benefit the party while doing their own thing.

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Originally Posted by Arashmin

While there's merit to cooperating, there seems to be far, far more merit to not and just reaping reward of the works of others while you work only to your own end.

Perhaps another way to address this...
-Have gathering randomly generate coffers in addition to whatever they're doing. That way, they still benefit the party while doing their own thing.

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I don't view "pure material gain at the expense of your party members" as merit, though. Again, maybe that's just me. I'd rather not get into a nasty argument over something dumb with the people I'm going to be spending the next two hours with.

Gatherers do generate coffers, but they have crafting materials in them.

I'd like to see a force pop system, where I-IV mobs drop an item. Trade that item to fresh tracks to spawn V and Star enemies who drop 210 gears. They would have to adjust the hp though, to make 1 party able to kill the enemies in a reasonable amount of time.

The problem is that SE has designed a system that directly pits players in the same party against each other. You need to be able to contribute enough damage to get credit for participation *(more on this below) but gatherers do not need the rest of the party to gather. What ends up happening is that gatherers can go off on their own and accomplish their goals but the combat classes are penalized by being short on party members to deal damage to get credit for chests and often times this can result in it being pointless to even continue to fight star mobs (even moreso if people actually quit the group as well). This is an absolutely bad way of doing things.

*As for credit for participation, there's still the limit on active effects on a target, so I don't even come in there on my main job, Summoner. What is the point of coming Summoner when there's too many effects and none of my DoTs can land and tick? When Fester has no effect because the DoTs didn't take effect? When I have to resort to Painflare spam to get Dreadwyrm Trance? This is also terrible design, and that's why I've stopped playing SMN.

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*As for credit for participation, there's still the limit on active effects on a target, so I don't even come in there on my main job, Summoner. What is the point of coming Summoner when there's too many effects and none of my DoTs can land and tick? When Fester has no effect because the DoTs didn't take effect? When I have to resort to Painflare spam to get Dreadwyrm Trance? This is also terrible design, and that's why I've stopped playing SMN.

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I didn't go on hard mode yet, but didn't have this issue on my SMN. On Easy or Medium, in the Dino cluster of people, still saw my effects, Fester worked.

i believe the limit is 32 displayed and 64 total effects on any one mob at a time. would depend on how many parties are at the same location.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

I didn't go on hard mode yet, but didn't have this issue on my SMN. On Easy or Medium, in the Dino cluster of people, still saw my effects, Fester worked.

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I'm with him, it definitely happens in Normal and it's absurd. The DoT limit is extremely small. You only need 3-4 parties with 2 SMNs and a SCH throughout them you start hitting the DoT limits within 7 seconds of the mob being at camp.

In response to the first point, I kind of disagree. It went from day 1, organized polite pulling as each of us carefully got Currents to mad dash free-for-all lol runs as we chaotically try to collect them on our own and everyone dies a half dozen times. I actually find this to be pretty entertaining as a "something else" compared to Dino Zerg for an hour and a half. I also enter groups now awaiting to be blown away by having a polite, patient party during this stage.

As for the rest, the credit for participation thing is a HUGE issue. It's already been described in page 1, but basically the party is out against itself and at odds from the get go because if a dps or two decide they want to go fish (party this am THREE of them did!) then the rest of the party is penalized by not being able to register enough damage to claim chests. What are you supposed to do for an hour and a half when this happens?!

Objectives. Aside from the obvious Currents objectives, do any actually do anything? On the mission summary screen at the end nothing there indicates any bonus from having done them, and frankly, the only useful bonus I can think of since we are all level 60 already anyway is increased drop rate next run or bonus tokens.

Mechanics. It would be a lot better if mobs had at least some mechanics and they varied. S Ranks do, but those die so fast now due to Clan Mark Logs that it's kind of irrelevant. With the hp Diadem mobs have, though, fights could be a bit more interesting if there were some mechanics to be aware of outside of easy aoe.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

However many times people tell me I can gather or do the objectives as exploration, let's face it, the focus is finding mobs and murdering them. This isn't exploring for me. I enjoy the content but they need to make it something other than zerging mobs for a chest. The fact there are already certain farm zones is also annoying and completely takes away the exploring aspect.

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This. I hate this. If "participating" is making do my rotation for 90 minutes in one island on a huge, huge map that'd I'd rather be exploring, looking for chests, even -shudder- some gathering on my botanist, then I'll gladly be kicked (if they even add that).

Unfortunately you can't fix the player base.

Also, gathering does generate chests and even tracks? Yesterday a few of us were fishing and BOOM some tracks appeared over a party member's head. No one else was on the island we were on.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Also, gathering does generate chests and even tracks? Yesterday a few of us were fishing and BOOM some tracks appeared over a party member's head. No one else was on the island we were on.

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I don't think gathering generates them. I think they can just appear on any member of the party.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I don't think gathering generates them. I think they can just appear on any member of the party.

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That;s sort of even funnier...

in the end we called it out and all helped out killing it.

I do think there should be a way to gauge party member contribution for the gear drops.. no contribution, no gear. I also don't roll on chest items I didn't help obtain (that's not very fair). I think this would stop the real "leechers" of the Diadem (the ones who sit and do literally nothing).

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You only need 3-4 parties with 2 SMNs and a SCH throughout them you start hitting the DoT limits within 7 seconds of the mob being at camp.

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That's not enough to hit 60 effects. That's enough to go over 30. 30 you start 'not seeing them', 60 they 'go off' (ie have no effect). Between 30 and 60, you might think its not there, but its there. Or reapply it just to be safe.

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Objectives. Aside from the obvious Currents objectives, do any actually do anything?

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Do 3, any 3, get eso. That's it. Once you've done 3, the objective duty thing collapses on itself and no longer shows them.

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With the hp Diadem mobs have, though, fights could be a bit more interesting if there were some mechanics to be aware of outside of easy aoe.

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In Medium, the NM Wisent will do a vaccuum aoe sucking people in, giving them Heavy debuff, before doing Seismic aoe right after, and then something poisonous. He also gives a near-impossible-to-act paralyze proc (40 seconds of not being able to move or act every single tic).

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Originally Posted by fortuona

4) Lack of party controls (to kick people not participating, or refill party slots if someone can't stay the entire run) is frustrating.

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The kick feature doesn't need to be added to cause it would used for all the wrong reasons instead of the right ones.

The main issue with Diadem boils down to two big problems and everything spins out from there.

1. This content was never designed with duty/party finder in mind. It was soley designed for Free Company groups with common insterests to go in, gatherers would be protected by their charges to assure quick and bountifull harvests and when the time came to gather for a fight it would be a no brainer.

2. The shared claim system: Only encourages people to zero in a single area and just spam-fest for 90 minutes there is nothing to encourage people to split up no reward for doing so. There needs to be a party/alliance based claim system and give rewards to ALL players in a zone if spreading out happens, more Star Ranks Spawn faster to allow battle alliances plenty to battle while giving more of a challenge with a single group per monster and more loot oportunities for all.

There are other minor issues such as making Gathering more team play rather than just greed, part of that could be making them important part of spawning some Star rank mobs, and other things such as perhaps buffs for the team with certain rare harvests. There is alot of work that could have been done but wasn't.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

That's not enough to hit 60 effects. That's enough to go over 30. 30 you start 'not seeing them', 60 they 'go off' (ie have no effect). Between 30 and 60, you might think its not there, but its there. Or reapply it just to be safe.

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The thing is that it's not only SCHs and SMNs applying DoTs. The other 24+ people wailing on the mob are as well. At more active times, you have 32+ people hitting them, each applying their own effect. You can have up to 9 parties.

I had two entire 90 minute runs midday yesterday where I could not get any of my SCH's statuses on at all, save for maybe one or two. No Effect, no effect, no effect.

It happens.

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You can have up to 9 parties.

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In easy or medium, I never had more than ~25-30 people on Dino island at the same time. Most of which don't have 3 dots.

Had a group not even make it to the mob farming stage, because one of the aether current was in the middle of a rock face, so PS4 people were unable to get. Imagine who the PS4 person straggled this way was? Our only tank. We bailed.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

In easy or medium, I never had more than ~25-30 people on Dino island at the same time. Most of which don't have 3 dots.

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And again, I've only done Normal.

Because you've not experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The person who started the conversation also had it happen to him.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

In easy or medium, I never had more than ~25-30 people on Dino island at the same time. Most of which don't have 3 dots.

Had a group not even make it to the mob farming stage, because one of the aether current was in the middle of a rock face, so PS4 people were unable to get. Imagine who the PS4 person straggled this way was? Our only tank. We bailed.

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Did the PS4 players try switching to virtual mouse mode and clicking on the current that way?

Anyone else could've switched to tank that had one at 60 and appropriately geared.

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Did the PS4 players try switching to virtual mouse mode and clicking on the current that way?

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Someone explained to do that 4-5 times, but they were unable to do so. They should not place currents 15 feet in the air, lower than the floor above, but way too high for the floor below, that's just bad.

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Anyone else could've switched to tank that had one at 60 and appropriately geared.

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No one proposed to go tank, so I'll assume that if anyone had a lv 60 tank, it was just part of a "get all to 60" plan, and not a job they even play.

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Because you've not experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The person who started the conversation also had it happen to him.

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It's very easy to mistake "my debuff was dropped from the first 30 list and then ran out" for "there was 60 debuffs, so it got replaced in ~10 seconds by another debuff". So let me be skeptical, even if the latter is possible.

As a SMN I can quickly unlock flying solo with Titan-egi distracting mobs, but seen some people ragequiting after 5 minutes because they were trapped near spawn point without being able to reach all currents. (Even after I told them to not respawn so I could fly close and rez them). Currents are unnecessary.
Also contribution for loot should be less. Two leeching gatherers in DF party? GG, you'll not see any V or star chests.