Why not have crafting gear be better?

So they are raising the cap on ilevel for crafting gear to 185. Below Alexander. Below Eso. Below Void Arc, below savage.

My question is why? At this point there should be no worry that people will 'progress too quickly' for bleeding edge content. This is catch up patch. Why not go all the way to ilevel200? Or maybe ilevel 195? 185 is kind of a joke. I'm not certain why Yoshi doesn't want a truly dynamic economy outside of food.

(Dynamic means interaction between various DOL/DOH/Battle classes. Right now crafting gear is often only use for... crafting/gathering which is only useful for crafting)

why does ilvl matter on crafter gear?

They are going to be releasing more relatively powered crafting gear in 3.2, once melding changes are in effect.

They would be dumb to make crafted gear on par with capped tome gear. They might as well make capped tomes uncapped at that point lol. But it wouldn't surprise me if they did it.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

why does ilvl matter on crafter gear?

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To answer the question broadly: ilvl generally affects the stats present, the stat caps available on meld (assuming it can be melded), and the type of materia that can be melded to it.

In regards to the OP though, it shouldn't matter for what we have in the game as far as crafter ilvl goes. It's all based on unknown future cap numbers, which was a complete mystery to us because of how things changed in ARR and now. ARR crafting was always pretty far from the PvE equivalent in ilvl. The switch to be nearer to the PvE stuff is likely to be a result of how tier 5 materia works and not much else... unless SE just likes bloated numbers and is ignoring future problems that tend to arise from it.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

why does ilvl matter on crafter gear?

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I mean crafted battle gear.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

They would be dumb to make crafted gear on par with capped tome gear. They might as well make capped tomes uncapped at that point lol. But it wouldn't surprise me if they did it.

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Why? This is catch up patch. But make it require some rare stuff. Like one of the components be a crafting drop from Savage Alex. Things like this could create a real dynamic market and still encourage folks to try and do Savage Alex even though they get 210 elsewhere now.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

I mean crafted battle gear.

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Because the mistake was made back in 2.x when Yoshi-P stated that crafting gear was NOT intended to be superior with a fully penta melded/perfect statted item.
They don't want that to happen again in 3.0. Likewise.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

I mean crafted battle gear.

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From back in 2013:

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

FFXIV: A Realm Reborn Producer and Director Yoshi-P here with a few thoughts on crafting and high-level items.

As always, I appreciate the constructive feedback that many of you have offered on this important topic. In this post, I’d like to discuss our vision for the role of crafting in Eorzea.

Crafting of High-Item-Level Gear

As you all know, the item level cap in FFXIV Version 2.0-2.1 is item level 90.
(We will be implementing a slight balance adjustment based upon our observations of item distribution within the player population.)
There are currently two ways to obtain item level 90 gear: by conquering the game’s most challenging dungeon, or by collecting and exchanging Allagan tomestones.

In contrast, the highest-item-level gear that is currently craftable is item level 70. Looking simply at the difference, this appears to a very significant gap. That said, the materia system (including advanced materia melding) allows for the crafting of gear more powerful than its item level would suggest, gear that can—when augmented with effective materia combinations—serve players well even in the most challenging battles.

That said, it is impossible to craft higher-item-level gear, or gear that is completely equal in power to the highest-item-level gear available.

This is an intentional decision that we made for a few reasons, which I would like to explain in detail.

Preserving the Appeal of Dungeons

While there are a variety of ways to enjoy FFXIV, the desire to become powerful is a great motivator for many players. In particular, the impressive weapons and armor obtainable by triumphing in high-level PvE encounters attract many players to take on these challenges.

If the same items were made craftable, some players might find it easier to save up their gil, robbing them of this motivation to undertake the game’s toughest battles.

I realize this is a worst-case scenario. In a perfect world, it would simply be another option, and players would have the choice of either fighting or saving money to obtain their desired gear. Unfortunately, this remains a concern.

Ensuring Item Rarity

We also believe that the strongest gear available at a given time should not be obtainable by all players.
As of Version 2.0-2.1, this position is held by the Allagan gear that may be won by completing the Binding Coil of Bahamut. With only the most skilled of adventurers able to complete this challenge, many others must settle for obtaining high-item-level gear via tomestones while biding their time, waiting for the difficulty of this battle to be eased.

Crafted gear plays an important role in allowing players to triumph in battle and obtain the strongest gear. Furthermore, as the item level cap is raised in patches to come, new recipes for higher-item-level gear will be added, preserving the valuable role of crafters while maintaining this intentional gap.

As our first patch has not yet arrived, it may seem as if the current state of items and crafting is static, but rest assured that subsequent patches will introduce higher-item-level gear, along with many new opportunities for crafters.
The class/job level cap will remain at 50 for the time being, meaning that gear (including crafted gear) will play an increasingly important role in character growth in the months to come.

At the moment, players are striving to improve themselves within a relatively limited range of power, but this range will gradually expand as new content is released, and as the difference in play styles between players leads to greater disparity over time. As a result, even if they lack the ability to create the highest-item-level gear, crafters will always have an essential role in Eorzea.

RMT Concerns

“What if high-item-level gear was made craftable with materials dropped in the Binding Coil of Bahamut?” is a popular argument. As I alluded to in a previous section, we believe that the prices for such gear would be high, forcing players to choose between sacrificing time to earn gil, or taking on the battles themselves.

It is nevertheless an understandable suggestion, and one which is of course possible to implement.
However, we stand by our decision not to have the highest-level gear available for purchase. One of our primary reasons is that such a change would encourage RMT. Our team is working tirelessly to stamp out RMT entirely, closing thousands of accounts and seizing massive amounts of gil every week—this even in the game’s current state, where many believe that crafted items are in low demand.

Were the highest-item-level gear made craftable and available for purchase, it’s easy to foresee a problematic situation where RMT abusers would:

• Overrun instances for item farming (monopolizing materials)
• Buy high-item-level gear at excessive prices to drive up value (market manipulation)
• More persistently solicit RMT gil purchases from players (increased spamming)

This would, in turn, lead to more players choosing to purchase gil, creating a vicious cycle that would feed further RMT abuse.

At one time, we considered the option of adding a more valuable, non-tradable currency that could be used to purchase these items on the market, but this idea was scrapped, as it made little sense from an overall gameplay perspective.

Existing Concerns and Future Plans

To summarize, in the game’s current state, the limited item level range for available gear means that many players are able to meet their needs with gear obtained in the course of leveling. Crafted gear remains useful for only a short period of time, resulting in low demand on the markets.
We are aware that this is especially true for weapons, with relic weapons becoming a sort of standard.

These issues will eventually be dealt with by raising the level cap, but crafters need not wait that long for change. Patch 2.1 will see the addition of the Wolves’ Den and the Housing system, and the services of crafters will be in high demand for both PvP-related items and furnishings. Looking ahead to Patch 2.2, crafters will be able to alter gear designs using a “template” system (official name TBD), giving them yet another role in creating desirable gear.
Rest assured that we will not sit idly by as crafters go neglected.

In closing, I would like to emphasize that we will continue to look at the demand for crafted items in all aspects of gameplay, from PvE and PvP to housing, end-game content, and so forth. We will continue to explore options for expanding the role of crafters—if not by allowing for the crafting of the highest-item-level gear—with a close eye on that which is in the greatest demand in the ever-evolving world of Eorzea.
I hope all crafters will look forward to the changes to come!

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"That said, it is impossible to craft higher-item-level gear, or gear that is completely equal in power to the highest-item-level gear available."

Perfect, not asking for it. Highest level gear is 210. Also I'm suggesting this on a catch up patch not a progression patch.

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If the same items were made craftable, some players might find it easier to save up their gil, robbing them of this motivation to undertake the game’s toughest battles.

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I get this is dated but Neverreap and Fractal were NEVER 'the game's toughest battles.' This is how most people cap tomes.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

...I'm not certain why Yoshi doesn't want a truly dynamic economy outside of food.

(Dynamic means interaction between various DOL/DOH/Battle classes. Right now crafting gear is often only use for... crafting/gathering which is only useful for crafting)

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Is this too simple and somtimes naive?
MOST players just want battle and dont't want to interact with crafting/gathering. ^^;

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RMT Concerns

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This is one of the few areas that I feel like Yoshi and staff are lying to us. I don't think they mind RMT because it means more subs. Give the helm and I would eliminate 90% of the problem with one minor patch and a voluntary GM staff. (Of which we would get thousands of volunteers for).

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Is this too simple and somtimes naive?
MOST players just want battle and dont't want to interact with crafting/gathering. ^^;

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Well you make a good point but even if we changed this... it wouldn't prevent you from still just battling!

As a 2** omnicrafter, I'm glad that it's this way. I'm tired of the few 2** crafters that try hard to manipulate the market and make bilions of gil for no reason. I'm happy being able to make my own food and consumables to play dungeons/raids, and craft low-mid level gear for leveling alts and help friends.

And I'd rather have fun playing the game to have the highest iLvl gear (Savage aside) than sit and cap boring red scrips, then go after the even more boring favor mats to be full i205 (assuming crafted gear would be i205).

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

So they are raising the cap on ilevel for crafting gear to 185. Below Alexander. Below Eso. Below Void Arc, below savage.

My question is why? At this point there should be no worry that people will 'progress too quickly' for bleeding edge content. This is catch up patch. Why not go all the way to ilevel200? Or maybe ilevel 195? 185 is kind of a joke. I'm not certain why Yoshi doesn't want a truly dynamic economy outside of food.

(Dynamic means interaction between various DOL/DOH/Battle classes. Right now crafting gear is often only use for... crafting/gathering which is only useful for crafting)

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Its just not a feature that will add to the game's attraction. In other words, people won't pay a monthly sub so they can sign on and farm money to pay for gear. They farm other stuff for gear, but that other stuff is funner than playing with the market board.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus_Cassius

Its just not a feature that will add to the game's attraction. In other words, people won't pay a monthly sub so they can sign on and farm money to pay for gear. They farm other stuff for gear, but that other stuff is funner than playing with a market board.

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And they won't ever have to... Again Crafted ilevel 200 gear isn't the best gear so why would people be obligated to sit around playing market board games?

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

"That said, it is impossible to craft higher-item-level gear, or gear that is completely equal in power to the highest-item-level gear available."

Perfect, not asking for it. Highest level gear is 210. Also I'm suggesting this on a catch up patch not a progression patch.

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Catch up patches, in regards to what is currently highest tier and crafted gear, is when the next tier of ilvl content is released. That's usually around the time new crafted combat gear is introduced that makes the prior tier of raid gear equal to or worse than. Otherwise, even in the patches like 3.1, which don't break the highest ilvl cap, the catch up mechanics rests in things like the 24man content, ease of access to tome gear, and the HW-introduced normal raid mode loot restriction lift and the soon-to-be-played airship raid.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Well you make a good point but even if we changed this... it wouldn't prevent you from still just battling!

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It's bcoz when the necessary gears involves crafting/gathering, then GIL will bcome a problem.
As a crafter you may think great chance for profit, however, I foresee most crafters will not have chance to get those mat. to craft.
Eventually only some groups take all advantage.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

This is one of the few areas that I feel like Yoshi and staff are lying to us. I don't think they mind RMT because it means more subs. Give the helm and I would eliminate 90% of the problem with one minor patch and a voluntary GM staff. (Of which we would get thousands of volunteers for).

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You do realize RMT actually cost SE money, majority of accounts are bought with stolen credit card info, once the actual owner becomes aware of the charges and informs their bank, SE is charged a charge back fee so the person can get their money back.

From an article a while back, Follow the Money

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That type of fraud would not stand out as unusual in today's world. Back in January 2008, Sony Online Entertainment CEO John Smedly told Massively that credit card fraud and chargebacks had cost SOE over $1 million over the previous six months. And Scott Hartsman, now the CEO of Trion Worlds, told Gamasutra in July 2011...

"Where you go buy gold from a disreputable gold site, and they say 'thank you' and deliver your gold, and sell your credit card number, or start registering accounts with your credit card.
"It's those kinds of things where people laugh and go, 'Oh, that never happens.' No. It happens. It happens a shitload. To the point where, over the last three or four years, I would dare anybody to ask an exec at a gaming company how much they've had to pay in Master Card and Visa fines, because of fraud. It happens a lot."

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Originally Posted by Gralna

You do realize RMT actually cost SE money, majority of accounts are bought with stolen credit card info, once the actual owner becomes aware of the charges and informs their bank, SE is charged a charge back fee so the person can get their money back.

From an article a while back, Follow the Money

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Then why aren't they serious about fixing it?

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

So they are raising the cap on ilevel for crafting gear to 185. Below Alexander. Below Eso. Below Void Arc, below savage.

My question is why? At this point there should be no worry that people will 'progress too quickly' for bleeding edge content. This is catch up patch. Why not go all the way to ilevel200? Or maybe ilevel 195? 185 is kind of a joke. I'm not certain why Yoshi doesn't want a truly dynamic economy outside of food.

(Dynamic means interaction between various DOL/DOH/Battle classes. Right now crafting gear is often only use for... crafting/gathering which is only useful for crafting)

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Crafted gear has the best stats in the entire game.

Crafted gear is amazing in Savage, and honestly without it on a Tank you are at a severe disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

And they won't ever have to... Again Crafted ilevel 200 gear isn't the best gear so why would people be obligated to sit around playing market board games?

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Well Void ark gear is i200, so its not desirable for SE to have crafted gear be the same ilevel

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Then why aren't they serious about fixing it?

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International laws protect RMT, in most cases. There's a lot of red tape there and it's generally a losing battle that involves a lot of money wasted to seek any sort of legal action to shut them down. That said, RMT is an inevitability. They can't really fix it to the extent of stopping them from appearing, but they can provide options and filters for players to not be forced to see their presence. As for why that hasn't happened, well... you might as well ask about the meaning of life.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Crafted gear has the best stats in the entire game.

Crafted gear is amazing in Savage, and honestly without it on a Tank you are at a severe disadvantage.

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You've got gear you take to savage made my Blacksmiths? Armorers? Leather-workers? Weavers?

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

So they are raising the cap on ilevel for crafting gear to 185. Below Alexander. Below Eso. Below Void Arc, below savage.

My question is why? At this point there should be no worry that people will 'progress too quickly' for bleeding edge content. This is catch up patch. Why not go all the way to ilevel200? Or maybe ilevel 195? 185 is kind of a joke. I'm not certain why Yoshi doesn't want a truly dynamic economy outside of food.

(Dynamic means interaction between various DOL/DOH/Battle classes. Right now crafting gear is often only use for... crafting/gathering which is only useful for crafting)

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Cause then people will exploit it for GIL and nobody will have it, while people will exclude others from party if they don't own any of the gear.

It happened in FFXI and it would happen in FFXIV.

Now if they added some NM's with high armor with super low drop rate, I would be for that.

I frankly do not want to spend millions and millions of gil on a crafted piece, then spend millions more on materia to get it where it is supposed to be, just to have it completely outdated within a couple months.

The way crafters price their hq gear and the high price of materia would make it insanely expensive to gear even one job, much less 2 or 3. Now if the gear was BiS for an extended period of time it would be more worthwhile.

But the way the system works now and the speed in which everything gets outdated makes for an outrageous amount of gil to gear yourself for anything outside of casual content.

So what I did was level my own crafters and make my own glamour and gear....and materia too. Which frankly contributes absolutely nothing to the market since I don't make them to sell either.

Being bottlenecked by drops is one thing, but being completely gated because you need to earn millions of gil before you can do A B or C is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

I frankly do not want to spend millions and millions of gil on a crafted piece, then spend millions more on materia to get it where it is supposed to be, just to have it completely outdated within a couple months.

The way crafters price their hq gear and the high price of materia would make it insanely expensive to gear even one job, much less 2 or 3. Now if the gear was BiS for an extended period of time it would be more worthwhile.

But the way the system works now and the speed in which everything gets outdated makes for an outrageous amount of gil to gear yourself for anything outside of casual content.

So what I did was level my own crafters and make my own glamour and gear....and materia too. Which frankly contributes absolutely nothing to the market since I don't make them to sell either.

Being bottlenecked by drops is one thing, but being completely gated because you need to earn millions of gil before you can do A B or C is ridiculous.

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The bigger problem right now is, Square is using Gil as a throttle for crafting. Crafters aren't being as greedy as they appear to be. it's carry over cost. Most people don't full phase Omni craft, they don't go get everything themselves. Time makes it impossible. They need to buy and it 20K here, 50K there, turns gear in to massive Gil management system.

In the case of your/ Our server the issue is compounded by another problem. The Gil in the system is 'old gil'. The faucets that created it aren't there so even if you were willing to pay the rates being set, you couldn't. The faucets aren't there.

I think when discussing things like this people have a kneejerk reaction going back to the days when people had used craft gear to get gear that was essentially BiS over the drops from the current dungeon raid. What the OP and many other crafters have suggested isn't anything like that at all. I as a crafter would not want the very BiS gear to be made craftable despite how much of a pain it is to get materials to even craft them these days. However, when someone brings up the idea of craftable armor everyone instantly turns to the "I don't want to have to farm gil", "I don't want to have to rely on some greedy crafter to gear", "I don't want to camp the market board all day", and "Look at all the gil the gil sellers would be able to sell if this happened". I think the only somewhat reasonable argument that isn't just panic and misunderstanding is 4 and unless you're actively involved in the market (In other words, a crafter/gatherer) it doesn't really apply to you outside of consumables for combat which wouldn't change so drastically in price.

Nobody expects anyone to camp the market board or be forced to buy crafted gear. Nobody expects you to suddenly become an omnicrafter because you're forced to use this crafted gear. All we're asking for is something equal to what drops in dungeons as a potentially different way for people to gear up other classes while breaking the current infinite loop they've shoved crafting into as of 3.0. You can still run around with 20k on you and just run dungeons or raids for gear if that's your preference, nobody is forcing you to buy this hypothetical equal to what drops in dungeons gear. At worst people would trade gil for time for some of the higher end pieces that may be a tad bit worse than what you may get from a once a week tome or whatever.

I understand alot of people had negative experiences in the past and that things didn't go as intended when SE made crafted/meldable combat gear in ARR. However, instead of addressing it and learning from their mistakes SE has chosen to put crafted gear off to the side where instead of fixing it, it just can't interfere one way or another. As of right now crafting is stuck in an infinite loop and while I still enjoy it the fact is half the crafting classes are designed to make equipment for mostly combat yet I'd argue a vast majority of the craftable equipment isn't even useful. Especially considering the fact that you get so much high-quality crafted gear chucked at you during the main scenario quest line.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Well you make a good point but even if we changed this... it wouldn't prevent you from still just battling!

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Its because they don't want people to be left out of stuff by not having said gear not every one goes out of their way to stockpile Gil. And yes they decided to not have crafted gear be useful because people wer clearing 2nd coil in a week in full item lvl 90 crafted left side with full melds. And in 3rd coil with item lvl 110 crafted gear.

Its because they don't want people to be excluded from stuff by not having specific gear that we can't even have a horizontal progression system id rather. Also spending millions on gear that will be outdated by the next raid tier. No thank you.