Infinite arrows

So maybe I missed something but how do archers and bards infinite arrows maybe I missed something. I know machinist gets explained but what about archers

I imagine it's simply a matter of a good portion of the Archer's Guild budget being set aside to supplying each of it's recruits with a sufficient quantity of arrows. How much is sufficient? What a silly question. It's enough to get the job done, no more and no less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liljramos88

how do archers and bards infinite arrows

---

Whenever a bard goes AFK, their character whittles new arrows until they return.

You know how when you log out, you go to bed? Usually? ARC / BRDs spend that spare time whittling arrows.

(In all seriousness, it's never explained, and is just a gameplay and story segregation. I mean, do you really wanna cart around arrows and have to pay for / make them?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

You know how when you log out, you go to bed? Usually? ARC / BRDs spend that spare time whittling arrows.

(In all seriousness, it's never explained, and is just a gameplay and story segregation. I mean, do you really wanna cart around arrows and have to pay for / make them?)

---

I've played games where needing to have arrows for archers is a thing and honestly it sucks. >.<

Was just curious lol. I never played 1.0 but heard at one point u had to buy arrows. Was it that bad of a experience that they removed it lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liljramos88

Was just curious lol. I never played 1.0 but heard at one point u had to buy arrows. Was it that bad of a experience that they removed it lol

---

It meant that playing Bard cost money beyond the simple repair costs shouldered by all other jobs. Imagine if Bard performed like it does now, but cost money to play normally? Nobody would play it. And if it performed better than other jobs at the cost of extra gil? "Waaah, rich people have better DPS just because they're rich." There was no way to win with the model they were going for, so they just took arrows out of the equation.


EDIT: Actually, yeah, come to think of it... When you "repair" a quiver of arrows or a stack of enchanted throwing axes/knives in Diablo II, you replenish the stack. Think of the durability on your bow as including your supply of arrows and the inconsistency is solved.

In 1.0 you needed to buy arrows, apparently it was expensive to bard and was a nuisance. When transitioning to 2.0 they reduced the currency amount by 1 digit, i believe they sighted removal of bard arrows as the reason they did that. So it's not lore related, more of a QoL.

Sometimes when I played RO, some servers would have standard arrow cost. I'd have to tote around a stack of a thousand arrows and BOOM there goes my inventory weight limit :(
but SOME....some would just require one arrow of a type to be equipped and INFINITE ARROWS. It was a blessing.

Honestly they could be magic/aether for all I care, as long as I don't need to go around and buy/carry them. Personally I'm all for that AFK arrow whittling theory. I mean what else is my character supposed to do when I log off? Sleep? Psssshaaaaaaaa

Well its like anything in the game. How does one carry a full inventory, and armory chest? Look at housing items can nearly carry an entire house with furnishings around all I want. Just magic I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Well its like anything in the game. How does one carry a full inventory, and armory chest? Look at housing items can nearly carry an entire house with furnishings around all I want. Just magic I guess.

---

It's a super power called "The Magic Satchel" where our pockets are literal pocket dimensions.

Deadpool, most RPG Characters, and nealry all cartoon characters have this ability and when used it looks like you're pulling it from behind your back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Deadpool, most RPG Characters, and nealry all cartoon characters have this ability and when used it looks like you're pulling it from behind your back.

---

Doesn't that mean that every archer has one, if not multiple sticks up their ass?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

Doesn't that mean that every archer has one, if not multiple sticks up their ass?

---

everyone in eorzea has one. unless they're are wildwoods from gridania. then it is just sticks up their arse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liljramos88

I never played 1.0 but heard at one point u had to buy arrows. Was it that bad of a experience that they removed it lol

---

Oh yeah, 1.0 archery, lovely times :rolleyes:
Me and my best friend mained BRD back then, we were always broke in comparison to all the others. Especially for..what is now called raiding. For other content, you could at least only buy/craft the low-grade arrows, but of course to get top dps, you needed top-grade arrows as well. I remember going rates of 120k per 99 arrow stack >.<°
Using up 300 arrows for one raid evening wasn't rare...so I'm fine with ANY excuse to why we don't use actual arrows anymore xD
But I like Fenral's explanation best:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fenral

When you "repair" a quiver of arrows or a stack of enchanted throwing axes/knives in Diablo II, you replenish the stack. Think of the durability on your bow as including your supply of arrows and the inconsistency is solved.

---

In 1.0, not only BRDs had consumables, tomohawks and the like, basically everything tanks threw to get hate from afar, also used consumables. Because, duh, axes don't come back once they stick out of an opponent x)
So that repair explanation makes most sense because it adds an explanation for all classes, not just BRDs ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I've played games where needing to have arrows for archers is a thing and honestly it sucks. >.<

---

There are also games where it adds a lot of depth in the battle system (elemental weapons and weaknesses, yay) and it's awesome :D

But yeah, on a general manner, it sucks.

I've always liked to think that Bards are able to make arrows out of the aether around them or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

It's a super power called "The Magic Satchel" where our pockets are literal pocket dimensions.

Deadpool, most RPG Characters, and nealry all cartoon characters have this ability and when used it looks like you're pulling it from behind your back.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

Doesn't that mean that every archer has one, if not multiple sticks up their ass?

---

Or Pants. Don't forget the Pants. Guybrush Threepwood, and ladders.... ow...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atoli

In 1.0, not only BRDs had consumables, tomohawks and the like, basically everything tanks threw to get hate from afar, also used consumables. Because, duh, axes don't come back once they stick out of an opponent x)
So that repair explanation makes most sense because it adds an explanation for all classes, not just BRDs ^^

---

As a former MNK main, I miss my chakrams. I was tempted into the shadows by Rogue's ability to throw knives.

Gameplay wise, it's because humping around thousands of arrows that cost 100k per stack has been proven to be absolutely atrocious. Rangers in XI had to buy arrows by the truckload to do anything, and if they ran out, they may as well just kill themselves and go back to town because their usefulness immediately ended.

Lore wise, I guess you could abstract the repair cost as buying all the arrows you'll need for the day. Maybe people just send you arrows because you're the Eorzean equivalent of Kanye, so every time you wake up your retainers just dump a big barrel of arrows in your inn room.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Well its like anything in the game. How does one carry a full inventory, and armory chest? Look at housing items can nearly carry an entire house with furnishings around all I want. Just magic I guess.

---

At one point when I was fishing for shark oil ingredients, I had 90 Silver Sharks in my inventory.

I couldn't help but laugh at the mental image of carrying this enormous stack of sharks around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

Maybe people just send you arrows because you're the Eorzean equivalent of Kanye, so every time you wake up your retainers just dump a big barrel of arrows in your inn room.

---

"Ma'am, this just arrived for you."
"...What in the name of the Twelve is that?"
"It appears to be a bouquet."
"But are those...?"
"Yes. Arrows. It's a bouquet of arrows."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChiiSoSeriouz

In 1.0 you needed to buy arrows, apparently it was expensive to bard and was a nuisance. When transitioning to 2.0 they reduced the currency amount by 1 digit, i believe they sighted removal of bard arrows as the reason they did that. So it's not lore related, more of a QoL.

---

This is why. Arrows were removed because of the Gil reductions from 1.0 to 2.0. I had 2M Gil in 1.0. Once my character transitioned to ARR, I had about 200,000 gil. Yes it sucked but they had to reduce costs from NPC purchases as they were high, especially arrows. Plus it was annoying in FFXI, with having to purchase stacks of 99 arrows along with ninja tools being at 99. It was expensive in FFXI because of that as well, which is another reason I quit that game as I kept running out of gil because of consumables.

Now would it be a farfetched idea to implement them as off hand weapons. I mean u won't have to buy them as consumable they would take the off hand slot. There will be diff effects for diff off hand weapons blind arrows could have a chance to cause blindness. There is no stat increase just debuff that could be added. Same could go with tomawaks for warriors I just feel that the off hand weapon slot is a waist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liljramos88

Now would it be a farfetched idea to implement them as off hand weapons. I mean u won't have to buy them as consumable they would take the off hand slot. There will be diff effects for diff off hand weapons blind arrows could have a chance to cause blindness. There is no stat increase just debuff that could be added. Same could go with tomawaks for warriors I just feel that the off hand weapon slot is a waist.

---

Honestly, the offhand slot is a fair bit superfluous. They might as well remove it for combat classes, and just give Paladin Sword and Shield as one item with the stats combined and the block rate as part of it. As it is, Paladin gets an extra item to customize their appearance that no one else can make use of. The shields for Conjurer and Thaumaturge were silly and unnecessary when they were included, and replacing all of those with a two handed weapon would be much better than requiring double customization.

Because having to carry around actual ammo is a relic of old MMO design, one that needed to be killed, buried in an unmarked grave, and never spoken of again!

I thought he asked a lore reason and not why the development team gave them unlimited arrows.

There are plenty of things in this game though that break immersion to the point it boggles my mind why they even bother with a story line. Gotta just learn to live with it. ^.^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamez82

I thought he asked a lore reason and not why the development team gave them unlimited arrows.

---

Except there IS no lore reason. It's a video game + convenience is the only answer.

There is one thing this thread put into my mind (thinking on previous FF games that had "ammunition types") and it makes me curious about how they might handle the Samurai job (we all know it's coming, so might as well speculate).

In the past, Samurai's attacks and spells changed depending on what kinds of Katana's you had in your inventory/equipped. You would use it, and, depending on durability, the sword would break and you'd have to buy another to use the technique again. Obviously, this would not work in an MMO, but I am curious how you guys think this kind of mech will be handled in the future, especially lore-wise.

Do you think they'll handle the samurai move set the same way as any other (Chakra management, for example), or will would you like to see them do something different with the job. It doesn't necessarily have to be consumables, mind you. I can picture the Samurai using two katanas (similar to ninja) in which the left handed weapon is not identical to the right (different from ninja) and effects the play style of the job... perhaps similar to stance dancing for Whm or Pld. Ie: equip this sword for dmg boosts. Equip that one for support boosts. Equip another to completely change you from Dps to Tank (highly unlikely, but you get the idea.) etc.

Way off topic, but this just kind of popped into my head while I was reading your guys' comments =/.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamez82

I thought he asked a lore reason and not why the development team gave them unlimited arrows.

There are plenty of things in this game though that break immersion to the point it boggles my mind why they even bother with a story line. Gotta just learn to live with it. ^.^

---

There is no lore reason, unfortunately.


why would there be anyway? the only thing toned down in this game is armor design.

This isn't only a bard thing. Ninjas have infinite throwing daggers, Paladins have the Captain America shield that returns after being thrown, Warriors have infinite axes to throw, and Dragoons have infinite spears to throw.

Ok, how about this for Lore.

Start with an actual arrow. See the arrow. Feel the arrow. Be the arrow. Conjure arrows at will from thin air while nocking the arrow.

It's a Deep Bard Secret, similar to the Deep Secrets of Dragoons, Warriors, Paladins and Ninjas.

It is never written in books, or seen in quests.

It's the same sort of Deep Secret for most jobs/classes to provide Actions and Traits that appear magically in thin air whenever you advance. It's why you have that silly stance after learning every new Secret during the class/job quests ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DPZ2

Start with an actual arrow. See the arrow. Feel the arrow. Be the arrow. Conjure arrows at will from thin air while nocking the arrow.

---

But my Nen type is manipulator, not conjurer! ._.
Sorry, getting some serious HxH vibes from what you wrote..xD

In 1.0, most had a ranged attack that consumed ammo, which cost gil besides Archer/Bard

Lancers and Drgaoons threw javelins.
Marauders and Warriors threw axes.
Gladiators and Paladins threw daggers.
Puglists and Monks threw chakrams.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Februs

In the past, Samurai's attacks and spells changed depending on what kinds of Katana's you had in your inventory/equipped. You would use it, and, depending on durability, the sword would break and you'd have to buy another to use the technique again. Obviously, this would not work in an MMO, but I am curious how you guys think this kind of mech will be handled in the future, especially lore-wise.

---

You should play SAM on FFXI. It is not like you said in your post. Why would a SAM use consumable katanas? Katanas do not break easily in real life, it only dulls depending on what you cut with it. The metal of the blade is steel that is folded over hundreds of times to the point that there is not a single molecule of air in it. Each katana has its own fingerprint, which is the design markings on the side so you can distinguish who the swordsmith was who made it.

SAM was a beast in FFXI. When it released, it was not perfect. It could build up TP to insane amounts to unleash Weapon Skills, and it could even Skill Chain them on its own. SAM was also known to miss A LOT during auto attacking, which is why the devs gave it The job ability Hasso, which increased the auto attack speed with two hand weapons, increased accuracy, and boosted attack. Being a DRK/SAM was insane as a killer. Since DRK used two handed weapons, Hasso made it better during battle. It increased TP and accuracy for DRK, and they could dish out a ton of damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

You should play SAM on FFXI. It is not like you said in your post. Why would a SAM use consumable katanas?

---

I never said it should. I asked for opinions on how it might work, given some of the history of that job class. I am also very well aware of the durability of a real katana. They do tend to nick and dull easier than broad/straight swords, but I know well that they do not break easily. Thanks for the lesson, though... I guess.

What I was referencing (in regards to breaking katana's) was the way the Samurai class worked in FF Tactics. Tactics was one of the very first appearances of the samurai in Final Fantasy (aside from FFV), and in that game, the swords could/would break after use. The lore was that the spells/abilities of the Samurai drew upon the soul of the katana that was respective to the ability you wanted to use. Drawing out that soul as an attack risked breaking them. As a result, you needed a healthy stock of them to make sure all of your moves were available to you (until you got up to some of the really rare and good ones, that is. Though, even those could be broken). I was only wondering if it would be something similar in this game, or if different weapons would have different effects, or if they'd just stick with the tried and true methods we see in every other job in the game.

It sounds like that's the way it was in FFXI (which I have not played). So, I'm guessing we can look forward to standard Tp/Mp based abilities with no variance caused by weapon/ammunition type. Hasso certainly sounds like a useful ability... but something tells me that even if Sam gets it, Drk's/War's would even get to use it. The 3.0 jobs take abilities from other classes, but do not give. If Sam turns out to be the same way, it might not give out any abilities to other jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

In 1.0, most had a ranged attack that consumed ammo, which cost gil besides Archer/Bard

Lancers and Drgaoons threw javelins.
Marauders and Warriors threw axes.
Gladiators and Paladins threw daggers.
Puglists and Monks threw chakrams.

---

That's interesting... though, Still doesn't quite make sense for Pld's... Captain America ricochet will have to do as explanation for that one, I guess.

Shield Lob never really made sense. Someone just thought we needed a ranged opener and got stumped, or thought "Mooning" or "The Bird" was too crass.

...yeah, part of what defines me as a job, is this shield I carry... and I'm gonna hurl it away first thing in every fight...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wadoka

Shield Lob never really made sense. Someone just thought we needed a ranged opener and got stumped, or thought "Mooning" or "The Bird" was too crass.

...yeah, part of what defines me as a job, is this shield I carry... and I'm gonna hurl it away first thing in every fight...

---

It works for Captain America. >_>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wadoka

Shield Lob never really made sense. Someone just thought we needed a ranged opener and got stumped, or thought "Mooning" or "The Bird" was too crass.

...yeah, part of what defines me as a job, is this shield I carry... and I'm gonna hurl it away first thing in every fight...

---

Totally agree lol. Honestly, I can't even think of a better alternative either... It's not like the Pld would toss his scabbard (if we even had one) or unscrew the pommel of his sword and toss that...It's kind of a funny animation too, since the Pld appears to be bouncing something off of his shield towards his enemy. What that "something" is, mind you, is a mystery. Maybe Pld's keep a collection of rubber balls in their pockets and they just bounce/lob them off of their shields towards the enemy.

Nah they just have their shields on a yoyo problem solved. Throw it and then get it back ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruskie

Nah they just have their shields on a yoyo problem solved. Throw it and then get it back ;)

---

There's actually a part on The Dragon's Gae Bolg that it used to pull it back to the Dragoon after it's thrown. Be it with such a mechanism or by pure martial Skill alone, it's safe to say a trained Gladiator learns how to throw the shield in a way that it will return to them. (This why you get the skill at lvl 15 gameplay wise)