Important Question to Devs about the Limit Break Change

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Dungeons and trials requiring a full party to register via the Duty Finder:

The Limit Break Gauge will fill more slowly than before for parties with three or more members of the same role. Class/job roles are as follows:

Tank: Gladiator/Marauder/Paladin/Warrior/Dark Knight
Melee DPS: Pugilist/Lancer/Rogue/Monk/Dragoon/Ninja
Ranged DPS: Archer/Thaumaturge/Arcanist/Bard/Black Mage/Summoner/Machinist
Healer: Conjurer/White Mage/Scholar/Astrologian

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"Registering via the Duty Finder". Does this currently Apply to Alexander Savage? Where you must gather for entry? This is a big deal right now for progression statics. Limit Break can make or break clears at this point in time for sub-optimal compositions.

Do you understand the consequences of this change for parties that adjusted specifically for the Class restriction, and now a ROLE restriction is completely out of the blue?

Isn't it making party setup easier by allowing for doubles of a particular role?

So, basically we HAVE to have a mix of ranged and melee DPS or the LB gauge will crawl? There will be blood.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Isn't it making party setup easier by allowing for doubles of a particular role?

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Not exactly, since right now it's specific to class. So while it'd be slower with 2x Dragoon, it'll be no slower with 1x Dragoon, 1x Ninja, 1x Monk etc. Making it specific to a TYPE of dps will force more diverse parties, which isn't always a good thing on high end content. Also they used the phrase 'more slowly than before', which suggests to me that it'll be an even stronger than the old 2x party member LB slowdown.

as long as you aren't doing 3 ranged dps or 3 melee dps for your static, this is actually an improvement. Before you would get a LB fill penalty for just having two of the same class in your party, now you just need to balance your roles without worry about class distribution.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

as long as you aren't doing 3 ranged dps or 3 melee dps for your static, this is actually an improvement. Before you would get a LB fill penalty for just having two of the same class in your party, now you just need to balance your roles without worry about class distribution.

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See, but it's not. If anything this creates less-diverse team compositions. The new method literally states, 2 Ranged, 2 Melee, 2 Tank, 2 Healer, no exceptions. BRD/MCH currently is necessary to all parties, why does having double Caster penalize you for that?

The real question here is how much more slowly will it fill? This kind of sucks for my main group, because I'm a MCH, and one of my friends is a BRD. If we get a SMN or a BLM in a party with four DPS, then we're suddenly being penalized on our LB now? I can understand that it's an attempt to prevent players from just stacking up on DPS builds such as BRD and three casters, but it seems a bit unfair that with four distinct "ranged DPS" roles we now have to start excluding two classes from PF groups if we don't want the LB penalty.....

Of course, if the penalty is something small such as 5-10%, then it won't be that much of an issue. If it's larger like say 20% or 50%, then that's a huge penalty and is pretty much forcing you into a 2 tank, 2 healer, 2 ranged, 2 melee situation, which isn't always ideal for every fight.....

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

The real question here is how much more slowly will it fill? This kind of sucks for my main group, because I'm a MCH, and one of my friends is a BRD. If we get a SMN or a BLM in a party with four DPS, then we're suddenly being penalized on our LB now?

Of course, if the penalty is something small such as 5-10%, then it won't be that much of an issue. If it's larger like say 20% or 50%, then that's a huge penalty and is pretty much forcing you into a 2 tank, 2 healer, 2 ranged, 2 melee situation, which isn't always ideal for every fight.....

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My Party set up is BLM SMN BRD - We've learned every fight with it, and we've been progressing in A3 for MONTHS now, and now you're gonna tell me we're gonna get penalized for all of that progression now? Without compensation in the fight itself? That's unfair, and unreasonable to throw into the mix. WE NEED to know if it applies to Savage or not.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

So, basically we HAVE to have a mix of ranged and melee DPS or the LB gauge will crawl? There will be blood.Not exactly, since right now it's specific to class. So while it'd be slower with 2x Dragoon, it'll be no slower with 1x Dragoon, 1x Ninja, 1x Monk etc. Making it specific to a TYPE of dps will force more diverse parties, which isn't always a good thing on high end content. Also they used the phrase 'more slowly than before', which suggests to me that it'll be an even stronger than the old 2x party member LB slowdown.

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That was sorta the idea when they wanted to encourage party composition. I mean, the way it is now, there was a LB slow-down when you had two arcanists (which also meant a scholar and summoner)

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

T but it seems a bit unfair that with four distinct "ranged DPS" roles we now have to start excluding two classes from PF groups if we don't want the LB penalty.....

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Look at it from anotehr perspective when you consider that a warrior can pull the same numbers as an actual DPs class while in tank stance (along with the padded survivability), and there's three melees. The class-doubling has been in place to discourage class stacking, but it also worked against teams that had a SCH and SMN. A typical party composition has always been 2 melee and 2 ranged (one physical and one caster), not only party synergy but positional setups as well.

I see the change, they are frowning upon 1 tank, 3 healers more than anything imo. However this sadly also effects DPS roles. Will have to agree because of changes to how stationary all range classes are now there really should be no reason why a setup uses 3 ranged jobs shouldn't be allowed. Honestly if I was the Dev team I'd say:

Three or more of Tank or Healer
Four or more of DPS/Range, so you wouldn't be able to have all melee or all range which I think is alright, but a 2/2 splits really does restrict party construction and I can see it hurting statics that have adapated to using 3 range, 1 melee or even 3 melee and 1 range.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

My Party set up is BLM SMN BRD - We've learned every fight with it, and we've been progressing in A3 for MONTHS now, and now you're gonna tell me we're gonna get penalized for all of that progression now? Without compensation in the fight itself? That's unfair, and unreasonable to throw into the mix. WE NEED to know if it applies to Savage or not.

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While most groups go for 2 melee a blm/smn and a mch/bard, blm, smn and mch/brd is totally viable and frankly its rediculous that SE hasnt realised this, its not like your trying to game the system its a valid party setup.

Friend pointed out to me that the note says Dungeons and Trials

Perhaps it DOESN'T apply to raids? Can Raids be ANY Job Composition? Still need confirmation.

This is not something that should be implemented. Basically it says wait we have a class that is unbalanced so lets punish the other people for not bringing them. Or oops we have designed an unbalance fight instead of echo reverse echo. Was anyone really asking for this.

This is an acceptable change, but at the end of an expansion cycle or at the start of a new expansion. No reason to punish people in the middle of a cycle.

Also why don't the notes have the nerve to say what the penalties will be. If you are going to put a nerf in own it. Say X% for X stacking. They have the damn math.

Gonna bump this for the day.

Yeah, we're going to definitely be talking about this tomorrow. We have three melee, and if this forces one of them to go caster we're going to be screwed for a week or two, maybe more.

20 bucks says they hardblocking ranged stackers.

Class stacking/ranged stacking is a problem in most games because movement heavy fights favor ranged dps.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

20 bucks says they hardblocking ranged stackers.

Class stacking/ranged stacking is a problem in most games because movement heavy fights favor ranged dps.

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Did we really need it here? Rangeds aren't really favored since all of them are casters now and they're already doing a lot less damage than melees. If they really wanted to change something, groups with 3 ranged needed some help with the dps, not a penalty.
And anyway i haven't seen a party without melees since lolTitan HM so i really can't see where this is coming from.

Savage isnt in DF, so it shouldn't apply there. It would apply for DF listed content that you can't enter in solo (e.g. Trials).

I am surprised blackmage and summoner are considered ranged dps and not mage dps. They already use different LBs. While both are technically ranged dps, their utility and damage type is completely different.

It just seems strange to me SMN and BLM aren't grouped on their own.

Im not sure you need confirmation since it specifies in duty finder and Alex Savage is not in the duty finder.

Why would it specify duty finder? You have no control of comp in duty finder. Way to get punished for it dumping your group with three dragoons.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Why would it specify duty finder? You have no control of comp in duty finder. Way to get punished for it dumping your group with three dragoons.

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It's for when you join DF as a full party, not when joining solo.

The way it's worded, it seems the only thing that would actually be affected by this would be singularity ex(assuming it works like ravana and bismark currently work).

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Isn't it making party setup easier by allowing for doubles of a particular role?

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I've seen people say this a few times, but that's not how I read the patch notes. I read that only for duties that are queue-able solo would no longer get the double class penalty. This means that anything that requires a preformed party (including alex savage) will still get the lb penalty for doubling up on classes. And now IN ADDITION things in duty finder which require a preformed party will get a penalty for tripling up on roles. The only thing up for debate is whether alex savage counts for the triple-role penalty, but it definitely still does for the double.

A cap of 3 range/melee seems more reasonable. This'll hurt a lot of people who weren't trying to stack the deck, that's just how their groups worked out. 1 melee should be fine.