Is FF14's tome system and endgame horribly flawed?

This question has been on my mind for quite some time and I have always focused on the benefit of it through keeping new and returning players caught up on the current content, but does it also reduce the desire to raid and strive to complete raids for the wondrous shiny things at the end?

Since the redesign SE frequently updates it about every six or so months to make the face-roll dungeons give the new tomes to exchange for current raid quality gear. This also makes the dungeons become trivial quite fast. I believe in your normal MMO with a large group based endgame (raids) you usually have difficulty tiers of content such as Dungeons > HM Dungeons > Starter Raids > Intermediate Raids > Final Raid. This type of system is also accompanied by the gear treadmill where you must obtain most of the gear within your current content to progress to the next tier of dungeon or raid. To compare this system to FF14 it would look like this:

Dungeons > HM Dungeons > Primals > Raids.

With SE's system the difficulty and gear gaps between the 4 and 8 man content seems to be extremely chaotic with it changing many times over a few patches. This becomes a problem when you have very easy dungeons that give better gear than the Extreme Primals which is currently the case. It essentially looks like this for gear:

Dungeons (i160) > Primal Bismarck (i175) > Dungeons (i180) > Primal Ravana & Alex NM (i190) > Same Dungeons(i200) > Alex Savage (i210)

While all content gives tomes to some degree the dungeons offer the most for your time and is the preferred method of choice to obtain them in a timely manor, but the fact they give them at all for high end raid quality gear is giving most players tools for work they are not ready for. In terms of difficulty it looks like this:

Dungeons (i160/i180/i200) > Alex NM (i190) > Primals (i175 & i190) > Alex Savage (i210).

As you can see there is a major gear distribution problem among the different difficulties of endgame content. The most notable one being dungeons giving i200 over the next two tiers of difficulty. I believe this may be affecting the community in a negative way when it comes to players interacting with each other on both sides of the difficulty spectrum having the appropriate gear to clear the hardest raids.

I cleaned it up and thank you for telling me.

You can edit your first post to bypass the character limit btw!

And yea things do need to change, was hoping they were going to fix that with the expansion but nope..it was 2.0's system all over again despite how many people said they disliked it!

Edit post bypasses the silly character limit

I think tomestones were damaging to 3.0 in particular. They were copied over right from the 2.X era, both in theory and execution, and offered rewards far greater than anything but the highest content, but were only released after many players maxed their characters and geared them to i160-170, grinding the very same dungeons we'd grind for Eso's, with some going farther still to i180.

With Alex NM released alongside Eso's, but offering rewards lower than Esoterics, NM gear was only valuable to certain players, those that wanted to exceed i180 immediately, and those who wanted to gear alts. Players knew from past experience with tomestones that, eventually, they could get superior rewards from Esoterics, Esoterics would become easier to get, and, ultimately, that Esoterics will uncap in a few months.

It lent an eerie feeling of disposability to any content that doesn't offer Esoterics (all level 50 content), and it made the gear itself feel disposable, because the only thing between you and a higher ilevel is time, not skill. Once you've invested the time to gear up, a new color tomestone is released, and the treadmill begins again. The gear treadmill isn't evil, it's a great hook for subscribers. The tomestone treadmill, though, is a bit tired. Rowena must be swimming in the damn things by now.

This is called gear distribution. They need to have a system to reward good gears to players that do not raid/don't do hard content.

I do not think the Esoteric tomestones were the problem. I think is was more the 65 ilevel endgame jump with 3 separate farm periods (4 weeks Law, 5 weeks Alex(NM), 13 weeks Eso), 2 of which as you pointed out are repeating previously completed content.

In my opinion there should have been a 4th level 60 dungeon (tuned for i142 to i150 and paired with the Aetherochemical Research Facility) in 3.0 and Neverreap and The Fractal Continuum should have been delayed until 3.05.

http://puu.sh/kXK3n/1046264036.JPG

Gonna repost this again. The content and reward distribution is unbalanced and unfair. Easy content should never provide the same reward as the best reward that hard content provides while mid tier content provides less. The i200/210 tome reward should have not been rewarded by faceroll dungeons even at i180. The horizontal progression excuse is nonsense because adding more ilvl cap gear isn't going to make it horizontal when secondary stats have been further nerfed in relevance and are still going to be replaced constantly before actual level cap is increased. If the 'tome' gear has to stay, it should be moved to mid tier content.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

http://puu.sh/kXK3n/1046264036.JPG

Gonna repost this again. The content and reward distribution is unbalanced and unfair. Easy content should never provide the same reward as the best reward that hard content provides while mid tier content provides less. The i200/210 tome reward should have not been rewarded by faceroll dungeons even at i180. The horizontal progression excuse is nonsense because adding more ilvl cap gear isn't going to make it horizontal when secondary stats have been further nerfed in relevance and are still going to be replaced constantly before actual level cap is increased. If the 'tome' gear has to stay, it should be moved to mid tier content.

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Yes it should. And that's why we have caps. You can choose: spend time or do the hardest content. The rewards will be the same, the routes, different.

Tomestones of esoterics made hunting irrelevant. I think the problem was with the time they released those things and the cap put on them. They should have released more floors of Alexander before a savage difficulty. If they would have done these things the servers would be buzzing with players doing all the different content instead of logging on to run expert and log off, or unsub because Alexander savage is stupid and broken, therefore leaving horizontal progression ending at a brick wall called the Mog Station.

Because this game can play more than 1 job. Tome can help you fully gear in 1 job only in 1 patch and that need full tome in 3 month at lease. It long enough for them to release new patch. When you need gear for your other job too, you must farm from other methods either.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

http://puu.sh/kXK3n/1046264036.JPG

Gonna repost this again. The content and reward distribution is unbalanced and unfair. Easy content should never provide the same reward as the best reward that hard content provides while mid tier content provides less. The i200/210 tome reward should have not been rewarded by faceroll dungeons even at i180. The horizontal progression excuse is nonsense because adding more ilvl cap gear isn't going to make it horizontal when secondary stats have been further nerfed in relevance and are still going to be replaced constantly before actual level cap is increased. If the 'tome' gear has to stay, it should be moved to mid tier content.

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did you factor in the head start the raid has in your calculations?
did you factor in that the easy content is accessible for everyone in your calculations?
did you factor in gear life cycle in your calculations?
did you factor in that the easy content won't get the same gear in the raid in your calculations?
did you factor in the purpose of a catch up patch in your calculations?
etc etc etc

The weekly cap is ridiculous I'll say.

It is so horribly flawed that it didn't work at all for the past two years. It was such a mess, that the game was cancelled after a few weeks, and Yoshida is currently living in park somewhere in Tokyo, with blue tarps keeping the rain off of him and his carbuncle plushies.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

It is so horribly flawed that it didn't work at all for the past two years. It was such a mess, that the game was cancelled after a few weeks, and Yoshida is currently living in park somewhere in Tokyo, with blue tarps keeping the rain off of him and his carbuncle plushies.

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and the moogle hoodie that we saw in the latest non-existent live letter.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Yes it should. And that's why we have caps. You can choose: spend time or do the hardest content. The rewards will be the same, the routes, different.

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Agreed!

I, myself, am at a state where my option is to spend the time, since I do not meet certain requirements to Raid:

No TeamSpeak:
- Everyone seems to make this mandatory now. I only have access to PS4 chat, Kik, and Skype (no computer, no laptop, using Windows Phone, which does not support TeamSpeak).

Time:
- My work schedule.

Experience:
- Many groups who are looking for reps are on AS3, while I still have yet to clear AS1.

Funny thing about voip and Alex Savage, is that I learned it without TeamSpeak. But because I bring the bonus, many non-learning groups barely give me a chance.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

This is called gear distribution. They need to have a system to reward good gears to players that do not raid/don't do hard content.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Yes it should. And that's why we have caps. You can choose: spend time or do the hardest content. The rewards will be the same, the routes, different.

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If one takes a route through a grass field; gets rewarded with mountain climbing gear and then decides to climb a mountain then what do you think the outcome will be?

i think what is flawed is content becomes irrelivent to fast for players to join in if they recenmtly started. Due to some personal issues i restarted this game alot in 2.0, due to how content was set up i missed out on coil (which coming from a 1.0 plauer i REALLY wanted to do it) i all but missed out.

where as in ff11 people was still doing dynamis 5 years after the ps2 NA release in 2004. it only became irrelivent when abysseaa was added but then again 99% of ff11 became irrelivent when abyssea was added this infact pissed off alot of players.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

http://puu.sh/kXK3n/1046264036.JPG

Gonna repost this again. The content and reward distribution is unbalanced and unfair. Easy content should never provide the same reward as the best reward that hard content provides while mid tier content provides less. The i200/210 tome reward should have not been rewarded by faceroll dungeons even at i180. The horizontal progression excuse is nonsense because adding more ilvl cap gear isn't going to make it horizontal when secondary stats have been further nerfed in relevance and are still going to be replaced constantly before actual level cap is increased. If the 'tome' gear has to stay, it should be moved to mid tier content.

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who pissed in her corn flakes?? please keep in mind the the terms "hard" "easy" "face roll" are SUB-JECT-IVE. AND are NOT factual representation of content.

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Originally Posted by Starbirth

If one takes a route through a grass field; gets rewarded with mountain climbing gear and then decides to climb a mountain then what do you think the outcome will be?

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all that is subjective. What if the grassy field requires more work or energy then the moutain climb?

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

all that is subjective. What if the grassy field requires more work or energy then the moutain climb?

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Your saying a grassy field can be more difficult to traverse than a mountain?

Just checking...

Let's assume the field is made of grass and the mountain has no pathways; meaning you need rock climbing gear.

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Originally Posted by Starbirth

Your saying a grassy field can be more difficult to traverse than a mountain?

Just checking...

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have you seen Jurassic park 2? xD

You want to strip casuals of their wellfare gear? Good luck with that . :)

The biggest issue when it comes to gearing up are all the weekly caps (it sux even more when you play several jobs). That's what should be changed first.

Imo we could keep the tomes as they are, but harder content should award extra tomes that do not count towards the weekly cap so that casuals get the gear at current rate, while the better players should be able to farm it in harder content to their heart's content.

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Originally Posted by Starbirth

Your saying a grassy field can be more difficult to traverse than a mountain?

Just checking...

Let's assume the field is made of grass and the mountain has no pathways; meaning you need rock climbing gear.

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What if the grassy field involves running a marathon, and the mountain is the size of your average climbing wall in a gym?

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Originally Posted by Moonleg

What if the grassy field involves running a marathon, and the mountain is the size of your average climbing wall in a gym?

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Then its not a mountain...

The weekly cap needs to go asap.
If I want to farm every hour of every day to equip every job that's MY business, I shouldn't be forced to abide to this 'controlled farming'. Also, if I am to take a longish break from the game, I'd be screwed because I can't catch up fast enough with this ridiculous weekly caps. I stopped playing for about a month back in September/October, and now I'm TRYING to collect as many things as possible so I can do things with my friends who are basically iLV200 while I'm stuck at 180ish because of the stupid caps on everything.
It makes no sense and makes the game become a daily or even weekly chore. This is not some facebook game, good god.

I understand the direction of the game and the way it handles things to accommodate as many people as possible, but I feel it needs to have a bit more courage with its content now. The "Save FFXIV Operation" is over, the game can stand on its feet. Now it's time to walk and move on.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

You want to strip casuals of their wellfare gear? Good luck with that . :)

The biggest issue when it comes to gearing up are all the weekly caps (it sux even more when you play several jobs). That's what should be changed first.

Imo we could keep the tomes as they are, but harder content should award extra tomes that do not count towards the weekly cap so that casuals get the gear at current rate, while the better players should be able to farm it in harder content to their heart's content.

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You are able to farm it at a faster pace with Gordian gear. To be honest, the better players shouldn't even want the 'wellfare gears' the casual want, so why not take eso away from people who clear AS? /ironic

I'm about to hit 60 with my first class/job. This system is overly convoluted. So really I should just be grinding the available dungeons to item level 200 and is I so choose I can challenge other things along the way? What's the fastest way for me to move up to be able to access additional content? Sounds like I'll be stuck to two dungeons for a while?

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I stopped playing for about a month back in September/October, and now I'm TRYING to collect as many things as possible so I can do things with my friends who are basically iLV200 while I'm stuck at 180ish because of the stupid caps on everything.
It makes no sense and makes the game become a daily or even weekly chore. This is not some facebook game, good god.

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You'll catch up before 3.2, you should have no excuse to not be i209 or 210 by the time 3.2 hits if you cap eso every week starting right now, and do your centurio rank 1-2-3 daily + elite B-rank hunts weekly. With Void Ark only adding speed.

Any game that let's you play multiple classes on one character, but only let's you gear one of these classes at a time is horribly flawed.

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Originally Posted by SonKevin

Any game that let's you play multiple classes on one character, but only let's you gear one of these classes at a time is horribly flawed.

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By the time 3.2 hits, my Scholar and Summoner should be both i209 or 210 (I wish they stopped making the stupid rings UNIQUE). So it's possible to level 2, just harder in a even patch and much easier in a odd patch. If the crafted gear with 3.2 is decent, then your 2nd job could also get decent gear from that.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

By the time 3.2 hits, my Scholar and Summoner should be both i209 or 210 (I wish they stopped making the stupid rings UNIQUE). So it's possible to level 2, just harder in a even patch and much easier in a odd patch. If the crafted gear with 3.2 is decent, then your 2nd job could also get decent gear from that.

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We should be able to equip gear to every job we play, not just one or two.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

This is called gear distribution. They need to have a system to reward good gears to players that do not raid/don't do hard content.

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If it's good gear to help raiders.. what's the point giving it to those that don't raid? *shrugs*

Lots of gear in here are quickly outdated, and serves as glamour only..

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

If it's good gear to help raiders.. what's the point giving it to those that don't raid? *shrugs*

Lots of gear in here are quickly outdated, and serves as glamour only..

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It's not written anywhere that it's to "help raiders", even more because "raiders" as in "the ones who do Savage" are minority in this game. Gear is for gearing your character, for the purpose of whatever content you want to do, needed or not.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

We should be able to equip gear to every job we play, not just one or two.

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AMEN.

/10 char

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

It's not written anywhere that it's to "help raiders", even more because "raiders" as in "the ones who do Savage" are minority in this game. Gear is for gearing your character, for the purpose of whatever content you want to do, needed or not.

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lol I know it's not written anywhere, my point is what's the use of casual getting overgeared for content. You don't need raid gear to do everything else.

The system is not good imo, needs a rework/fixes; my PLD can wait for it's balance TP ;)

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

who pissed in her corn flakes?? please keep in mind the the terms "hard" "easy" "face roll" are SUB-JECT-IVE. AND are NOT factual representation of content.

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what's not subjective are failure rates.

Savage > EX Primals > Alex Normal / 24 Man Alliance > Expert Dungeons

you can use any words to label them as you want but the % of times people enter content and fail to complete the content in the allotted time or choose to quit without clearing the content is not subjective at all.

Lots of people enter Savage and fail to complete it. Less so for EX Primals but failures are not unheard of.

Alex Normal and 24 man content is usually cleared by people who enter but there are still some occasions were people abandon.

Expert roulettes are almost always cleared but sometimes they take a lot longer and in really rare circumstances people also abandon.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

AMEN.

/10 char

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Wasn't that the original case in 1.0? People could wear whatever, but took a penalty depending on what gear went to what class. Casters could wear plate but would lose on intelligence.

In fact, Papalymo is a THM yet wears plate gear, a reference to the old system.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130724102620

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We should be able to equip gear to every job we play, not just one or two.

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You can, make 11 alts. No idea you wanted to raid with 12 chars.

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lol I know it's not written anywhere, my point is what's the use of casual getting overgeared for content. You don't need raid gear to do everything else.

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Then you're having a welfare trap, railroading the non-raiders into not being geared enough to even enter raid if they wanted to.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

You can, make 11 alts. No idea you wanted to raid with 12 chars.

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That's the issue. You can make alts and gear them up at the same time, while you can't do the same with alt jobs. Imo it just shows that acquisition of gear should be reworked to support one of the main features - one character for everything.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

Then you're having a welfare trap, railroading the non-raiders into not being geared enough to even enter raid if they wanted to.

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That's another problem with our gear system. The gear gives too much of boost...

It's great that this slows down progression and increases artifical longevity of content, but the gear vs skill ratio seems far from good. The game should be fun enough to keep players playing, these weekly caps just hide lack of content and it kinda suggests that SE fears that players have no other reason to keep the sub going than the missery of missing weekly gear required for the next content.

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That's the issue. You can make alts and gear them up at the same time, while you can't do the same with alt jobs. Imo it just shows that acquisition of gear should be reworked to support one of the main features - one character for everything.

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The issue? Seriously? Even the top raiders who think locking out their one top job is bad don't play more than 2 jobs on 2 separate chars. No one would even TRY 12, heck 3 would be overkill for most considering they'd not only need freetime pretty much in permanence (sleep, eat, play, nothing else), but they'd need to keep up with 3 statics, at 3 schedules, for 3 stressful raid night-schedules. I think 2 is hardcore already. Gearing 2 jobs is fine (and currently doable!), gearing 2 chars to go around the lockout is hardcore.

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It's great that this slows down progression and increases artifical longevity of content, but the gear vs skill ratio seems far from good.

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Do you think taxes steal from the very rich and tax havens are a natural defense of the 1% against the evil governments who want to give back to the poorer people? Cause it sounds very right wing. The elite can stroke their own e-peen, they don't need exclusive forever-and-ever-better-than-you neon signs.