Combat Glamours

As crafting moved into the realm of glamour I thought we would be making some really unique combat sets and dungeon/raid gear would start to become more plain or see repeated designs. Wouldn't that make more sense?

What if dungeon/raid gear was always acquired in a rundown state. The stats would be the same, but the colors would be dull, cloth torn, and metals damaged or missing pieces. Crafters could make the cosmetic version of that gear, sort of like parade armor. It would not have any stats of the raid gear, but would be without any of defects found in the dropped version.

Players quitting in 3...

My point would be, you can't just say crafting is going to now just be glamours and not take steps to make it so. It wasn't fun for crafters to lose the ability to make effective combat gear. Glamour was going to be one of the top reasons to still craft. Then why are the coolest designs left out of our reach?

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Originally Posted by Aniforani

What if dungeon/raid gear was always acquired in a rundown state. The stats would be the same, but the colors would be dull, cloth torn, and metals damaged or missing pieces.

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Please no .

I don't know how it is in your server, but in mine, I see more people running around in glamours obtained from crafting than people running around in Alex gear.

Your suggestion would be better if it was to add special effects to current endgame gear instead of making endgame gear look worse. People don't want to complete the hardest content in game only to find "broken" gear. It's just disappointing.

While it doesn't sound like something I'd want, kudos for thinking creatively! Crafting is in dire need of a purpose. Currently, crafting (and gathering) are effectively a closed loop. You craft in order to get - better crafting gear!

It would be better to add a second way to upgrading raid gear.
The first way will be what we have now: get gear, get the upgrade item in the raid, give both to a NPC and get an upgraded version of the gear
The second way can be: get gear, get upgrade item in the raid, craft the upgraded version yourself (because character bounded) and get a single materia slot as an extra (overmelding not possible)

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Players quitting in 3...

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So much this

No, I don't want to pay you crafters obscene amounts of gil to have the original version I should get from the content originally... unless of course you want to run Alexander 1000 times to get the "fabulous" version of the AF2 Crafter set?

...not to be awfully negative here, but we do see much more "repeated designs" than we should, tbh...

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Originally Posted by Colorful

No, I don't want to pay you crafters obscene amounts of gil to have the original version I should get from the content originally... unless of course you want to run Alexander 1000 times to get the "fabulous" version of the AF2 Crafter set?

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You don't pay crafters, because you can't trade the gear to them. You have to level up a crafter yourself to get it. ^^

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Originally Posted by Felis

You don't pay crafters, because you can't trade the gear to them. You have to level up a crafter yourself to get it. ^^

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that is much worse.

Keep crafters out of endgame. These are horrible ideas.

Forcing people to craft for endgame gear would only bloat your market more. You'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

Forcing people to rely on crafters for endgame gear was annoying. Glad they took it out (though people still seek to favor tanking with pentamelded accessories. Hope they take that out too.)

If they try to force raiders to rely on crafters for end game, they should make sure crafters can only get materials / their best gear from end game PvE, not from their own gathering classes.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

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Your suggestion would be better if it was to add special effects to current endgame gear instead of making endgame gear look worse. People don't want to complete the hardest content in game only to find "broken" gear. It's just disappointing.

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Basically this, but I think allowing a new system for "design" customizations would be interesting. Three eye poking spikes on the shoulder instead of two; a tron like glow with a set color; one giant shoulder pad instead of two, etc...

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Forcing people to craft for endgame gear would only bloat your market more. You'd be shooting yourself in the foot.

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the market needs bloating, it's pretty dead right now.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

If they try to force raiders to rely on crafters for end game, they should make sure crafters can only get materials / their best gear from end game PvE, not from their own gathering classes.

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they 100% should have more crafting mats from PvE.

what does gathering have to do with crafting? Crafting, Gathering and PvE are 3 different things. it's like you think Raiders can't craft and crafters have to be gatherers. why can't raiders gather? why can't crafters raid?

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Originally Posted by Felis

You don't pay crafters, because you can't trade the gear to them. You have to level up a crafter yourself to get it. ^^

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That is infinitely worse. Why do crafters and gatherers always insist on shoving crafting into everything related? It's nice that you enjoy it, but many others including myself, don't. You craft to get better crafting gear, you PvE to get better PvE gear, you PvP to get PvP gear, etc. They're separate things, keep 'em separate!

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Originally Posted by Colorful

You craft to get better crafting gear, you PvE to get better PvE gear, you PvP to get PvP gear, etc. They're separate things, keep 'em separate!

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that is the complete opposite of what MMOs should be.

crafting and gathering are means to an end. if you only craft to get better crafting gear, what's the point of having the best crafting gear? and you don't gather the best gathering gear do you?

this is one world and it should be one inclusive ecosystem.

you don't kill dragons and eat raw dragon meat to be stronger to kill more dragons faster. why is food okay to be crafted and armor and weapons not? what part of being a piece of armor makes it something that can't be crafted?

I expected to see a lot of "no" in the replies, and I'm glad for those who provided alternatives. I do wish there was a bit more interaction and support between raiders and crafters, seeing as we are both treated as fringe groups. To the other crafters here, are you content with being the Victoria secret of this game? Are we only to make swimsuits, pajamas and lingerie as glamours?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the market needs bloating, it's pretty dead right now.



they 100% should have more crafting mats from PvE.

what does gathering have to do with crafting? Crafting, Gathering and PvE are 3 different things. it's like you think Raiders can't craft and crafters have to be gatherers. why can't raiders gather? why can't crafters raid?

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My partner and I have made over 20million off casual crafting and gathering our own mats. Believe me when I say - it's not dead. But if you're relying on it being from the best drops then you're looking at the wrong markets. Which sorta goes into point two - you can gather your own mats, but if the time:Cost is more efficient to buy it then you can buy it from other gatherers too.


I don't mind mats coming from PVE; don't mind that. But keep it to what it is - Glamors, Furnishings, Etc. It should NOT have ANY effect on End-game gear. The moment you start affecting end-game gear, you make it required. I don't mind the 'cosmetic bonus' idea where certain sets could get something 'extra' from crafting, because that's still glamor to me. But if you make it affect stats? That's a step too far.

It needs to be kept out of raiding. Nothing stops a raider from crafting, but a raider shouldn't be stopped by crafting.

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crafting and gathering are means to an end. if you only craft to get better crafting gear, what's the point of having the best crafting gear? and you don't gather the best gathering gear do you?

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Because that's how MMOs work? You do the most challenging content to get the best gear from that content, let's rephrase your question "If you only PvE to get better PvE gear, what's the point of having the best PvE gear?". The answer is I don't PvE to get the best PvE gear, I do it because it's fun (well with the current lack of content not so much fun), and the gear is a bonus and for glamour, glamour is my endgame. Do crafters not enjoy crafting? Do they not enjoy the glamour of the AF2 crafting sets? As for gatherers, don't they obtain scrips that they use to buy gear? I've got no clue, but from what I've read it seems so.

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you don't kill dragons and eat raw dragon meat to be stronger to kill more dragons faster

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Well yeah, I kinda do? I run DREX to get Esoterics gear, which in turn makes my DREX runs faster. I do it for the glamour though.

I don't mind pentamelded gear being an alternative to Savage gear (not better), but when you come in and suggesting implementing something that comes at the expense of the other part, you're not going to get many replies agreeing with you. Do you honestly believe it should be handled that way? No, implement more glamour gear, don't ruin PvE glamour gear. As I said earlier, glamour is my endgame and of many others that I know. If they implemented this I can honestly say I'd unsubscribe without even thinking twice about it.

Keep crafting out of endgame. Sure give crafting more glamour to make that's fine.
Spend 4 hours raiding a day and get a cool item, still have to pay 12 million gil for it to look the way it already should.
No thanks.

I believe this is what we call a bad idea.

Also, this would incite more rage than the Playstation Network Outage.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Do they not enjoy the glamour of the AF2 crafting sets? As for gatherers, don't they obtain scrips that they use to buy gear? I've got no clue, but from what I've read it seems so.

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There's notable dissatisfaction with the current system for crafters, as we essentially are only creating things for ourselves. Nearly all MMOs have a crafting structure that involves crafters making items *for other players* as that's how the economy works. Currently, crafters have very little that they can make for others that's actually in demand. Even the glamour sets aren't really profitable, as they're one of the few things crafters can actually make that other people want, which results in there being a lot more supply than demand for these items.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

There's notable dissatisfaction with the current system for crafters, as we essentially are only creating things for ourselves. Nearly all MMOs have a crafting structure that involves crafters making items *for other players* as that's how the economy works. Currently, crafters have very little that they can make for others that's actually in demand. Even the glamour sets aren't really profitable, as they're one of the few things crafters can actually make that other people want, which results in there being a lot more supply than demand for these items.

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Could you list any themepark MMO that gives the ability for crafters to create high end gear? The only major themepark MMOs I can think of are WoW and Guild Wars 2, possibly WildStar if that doesn't die out, none of those allow for high end gear to be crafted. In fact, it's worse than FFXIV, in WoW (or at least back when I played), crafted gear was absolute trash, in FFXIV you can craft i180 which is still signfiicantly below Esoterics, but not to the point of being practically worthless. The reason people don't buy them is the absurd price, why would I spend a few million on those when I could grab law (I've been capped for at least a month or two now) but I guess that's SE's fault for making the mats hard to obtain.

As for glamour sets not being profitable, well that tends to happen with everything once the item is no longer rare, as is the case with PvE or PvP. If you were one of the people who made the items early you'd have sold them for over 30+ million, and they did sell at those prices. But regardless, I constantly hear of crafters making dozens of millions and spending millions and millions on gamble, there's money to be made even if it's not glamour. At this point I wonder what crafters are doing with all that gil, but I suppose some find it fun to try to hit gil cap.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

in FFXIV you can craft i180 which is still signfiicantly below Esoterics, but not to the point of being practically worthless. The reason people don't buy them is the absurd price, why would I spend a few million on those when I could grab law (I've been capped for at least a month or two now) but I guess that's SE's fault for making the mats hard to obtain.

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That's exactly the problem with the system, though. Everything's too gated for the recipes that we have available to actually be meaningful. Crafters in FFXIV have never been able to make top-end gear by and large, except for a few corner case pieces in the 2.4 raid tier (which was due more to poor itemization of 130 gear than an actual problem with the crafted gear itself), and crafted accessories for tanks (but again, that's less of a problem with crafting and more a problem of itemization).

If we could actually reasonably make the i180 gear, we wouldn't be near as upset with the current system. As it is, with the current gating, the gear *might* become readily available at some point during the 3.2 patch, at which point it won't be in demand with the suite of simple gearing options available through a combination of Esoterics, Void Ark, Alexander NM, and potentially from Exploratory Missions.

When it comes to the glamour sets, that's kind of the point: they aren't a longterm market (combat gear, on the other hand, generally sustains itself for a long time). They have much more narrow appeal than gear that's actually usable by their very nature. They have always started at extremely high prices, with low supply and initially high demand and quickly plummeted to a state of high supply and low demand. That's been the case for anything from early pieces like the Spring Dress and Taffeta Shawl to the Thavnairian stuff we have now.

I like this idea on paper. You'd get an awful lot of salty raiders though if they had to deal with torn/broken gear after doing some major savage dungeon.

So with that being said, here's an idea to throw out there. Let crafted glamours be able to be two-color dyed. People have been wanting this forever. It won't affect your precious stats but it will give crafters an advantage and make gathering more lucrative (pigments!).

There is a lot of mention to the cost that this would impose on those who don't craft. Well, the cost would be based on the time and effort as well as the rarity of the items required for the craft. In that way, SE is in charge of the cost. What would you sell your raid gear for? I'm guessing it would be based off those same factors. This doesn't need to be a million Gil craft, I'd just be happy if people in my fc actually had stuff I could craft for them like the old days. To me it's more about feeling useful than it is about profit. Also the idea that crafters should only sell to our own competition is crazy.

So you want raid gear to drop broken, and force people to either pay crafters via a "Request Meld" type screen to fix it (because raid gear is untradable), or force players to level their own crafts to fix it?

.....Where the hell is my fee for killing Bahamut 117 times before the Paladin Sword dropped for my static? Pretty sure crafters wouldn't be able to do anything if we had let him escape those coils...

No, the only thing "crazy" in this thread is the fact you think that the hardest content in the game, that can take hundreds/thousands of combined man-hours to beat, should drop unfinished gear that requires crafting to complete. We didn't spend enough time learning and beating the fight itself??? I understand you want "something to craft" for people, but your request is well out of proportions. Dungeon gear is crap when it comes out, I wouldn't mind that if it helped stimulate something for crafters. The word raid has no place in your opening sentence of your OP though. Sorry. No thanks.

The words "This doesn't need to be a million Gil craft" make me laugh though. I don't doubt your personal intentions I guess, since I don't know you at all....but you are extremely naive if you don't think the community will over-inflate the living shit out of this if it were ever put in place. I'm not sure what kind of system they could put in place to make one person help upgrade someone else's untradable gear, but even if they placed a nonadjustable monetary value to the request screen crafters would still charge trade fees to accept. Trust me, I foolishly thought "everyone wouldn't cheat the triple triad tournaments".... Well, I was wrong. /shrug

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the market needs bloating, it's pretty dead right now.

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Bloating the market with more items doesn't help a "dead market" though. It just drops prices more.

The market is slow because of the current content drought, but it's far from dead.

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they 100% should have more crafting mats from PvE.

what does gathering have to do with crafting? Crafting, Gathering and PvE are 3 different things. it's like you think Raiders can't craft and crafters have to be gatherers. why can't raiders gather? why can't crafters raid?

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There are tons of mats from PvE, but honestly most serious crafters either farm them on their own or send retainers for them.

JayCommon, I understand you have no reason to trust that I would not over-inflate the prices of such a glamour. You were not in any LS or Free Company that I ever decked out in +3 gear (when they existed and meant something) without charge, and used my own time to farm the mats. Come relic time it was me that broke countless millions of HQ Weapons double melding materia for endgame friends, once again without charge. I also wasn't the only crafter to act in such a manor either. It wasn't because I was rich. It was because back then crafters could help people, and in turn those friends were more then happy to help me anytime I asked for assistance. Given the system we have now what good is gil to me anyways? Gil is like an uncapped tomestone with nothing worthwhile to spend it on. Since I made the initial suggestion others have provided what I would consider better implementation of a similar concept. You are right, I overstepped by including Raid level equipment, and I'm happy that you would be willing to concede dungeon gear to us crafters. I will stand by my opinion that crafting cannot be locked into just creating crafting gear for future crafters. If there is nothing exciting or interesting given to crafters what will be the incentive to keep new crafters flowing in for us to sell to? BTW one of your "likes" was me, as I think you made a good point as you have in alot of other posts you have made. I only mention this because I hope you don't think that crafters are as greedy as the market board makes them out to. There are a lot of transactions that bypass the market board because no gil ever exchanges hands. Should you find yourself on Ultros, I owe you something shiney yet craftable.

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Originally Posted by Felis

You don't pay crafters, because you can't trade the gear to them. You have to level up a crafter yourself to get it. ^^

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

that is much worse.

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And this double standard is the single most annoying aspect of FF14 for me. Crafters can be forced down combat and raid paths on a regular basis and are but ask a raid gamer to craft and all hell breaks loose.

I'm actually sad that they made crafting such a pain in the ass now, and I don't mean at 60 even. I've crafted hq gear sets for all my alt jobs as I've leveled.. Up to 50. Everything after is such a grind of mats that I've decided to go poe -> 56 -> law, other than keeping current on weapons.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

And this double standard is the single most annoying aspect of FF14 for me. Crafters can be forced down combat and raid paths on a regular basis and are but ask a raid gamer to craft and all hell breaks loose.

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The players aren't forcing the crafters to PvE, the developers are. There is no double standard when it comes to the players, but I suppose SE must see crafting as a "secondary" thing as story progression is tied to battle classes. Other than that though, crafting materials can all be bought with the millions of gils crafters have.

ilevel 180 isn't bad for classes that just hit 60.
it should be much cheaper though.

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Originally Posted by kazeandi

ilevel 180 isn't bad for classes that just hit 60.
it should be much cheaper though.

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In terms of the stats and item level it's actually perfectly placed. However, the difficulty of acquiring the materials and crafting them is far too high, meaning that they'll never be competitive with i180 Asuran gear or i190 Alexander Normal gear. Why they moved away from having the materials provided by Tomestones I'll never understand.

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Originally Posted by Aniforani

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If nothing else, I wanted to at least take the time to thank you for considering the other side of the fence as well, and for being humble enough to like a post that completely contradicted your OP. And I do know that crafters like you exist, I don't consider myself a crafter anymore because I don't have anything to 60, but in 2.0 I helped many people for free as well. I think if they put something like your idea into a raid setting, then the number of crafters trying to capitalize on a free buck from the raiders would be in far greater number than those who would help for nothing. Especially since the state crafting is in right now...

I fully agree with you that crafters should not be just crafting for other crafters. 3.0 state of crafting is a joke, and in a very bad place. That's why I would be happy to concede dungeon gear to drop broken. Dungeon gear is not item level relevant when it comes out for the veterans, and normally is only used for glamouring purposes. The few people that would benefit from getting a dungeon drop to actually increase their item level, will most likely just be replacing it in hours/days anyway. I'm not sure if that would be enough to revitalize a market for crafting or not, but something is better than nothing. I think the success of broken items being crafted into glamour drops would be heavily reliant upon the armor models being unique though, and not just re-colored versions of things we got 30 item levels ago...

Either way, should I ever find myself on Ultros all you owe me is a salute. :) Even though many of us saw red as soon as you put the word Raid in your OP, you handled it well and are at least trying to become part of the solution with your ideas rather then part of the problem (inactivity, denial). I understand Yoshi is scared if battle-crafted items are too strong then they will become required by raiders, however I also feel like they didn't do their due diligence in trying to find the happy medium that did exist in 2.0.

This may be unpopular opinion, but I think they should stop putting gear sets in the dungeons and do something new or different. With the lost city hard and anti-tower we've been given identical sets from The Aery. Like, even SE recognized there is little point in giving us unique dungeon gear at this point, they aren't even that great for "catch-up", and we're basically running the dungeons for tomestones at this point anyway. Plus, right now, completing an ESO set is probably easier than gathering together a dungeon set.

Anyway, why not start putting something in the dungeons that the crafters may want or use? The way I see it, dungeon gear and accessories are more-or-less desynthesis fodder. So, perhaps something like the "aged" items crafters could desynthesize for materials towards crafted sets or some such? Perhaps even relic items could be found in some manner? Though, they'd probably be rare.

The point being though, we're already getting rewarded(tomestones) for completing the dungeon, and that reward goes towards better gear anyway! Personally, I wish there was better harmony between DoH and DoW/M. Could even change the pace of this ridiculously stale treadmill.