Strongest Job Lorewise?

Simple question, I want to know what people think is the strongest job lorewise. Personally I think it's dragoon. Being able to jump at insane heights as well as dedicating your whole being into slaying dragons, some of the strongest enemies in Eorzea must require an extreme degree of skill, disciplicine, and exceptional physical physique. I also think it could be summoner as they theoretically can invoke the powers of each and every primal via summons or self-empowerment.

Edit: Additionally what do you think is the weakest job lorewise? I think its Machinist considering they don't really have any supernatural powers, they rely on technology and ingenuity.

Edit 2: Probably should have clarified this in the beginning. Basically what Im asking is, if all jobs had to fight eachother either 1v1 or in an all out brawl who would come out on top? Lorewise of course

Strongest? BLM, WHM, and SMN.

Weakest? BRD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bernelli

Strongest? BLM, WHM, and SMN.

Weakest? BRD.

---

Weakest is actually Machinist since what make them strong is the technology they use. Physically and magically Machinist lack any physical nor magical talent which is why the Machinist, lore wise, is the Job that can be mastered by anyone from those who lack physical or magical talents to the rich and the poor who normally would not be able to put time into the other jobs due to their personal life.

Bard maintain some physical talents which is why the Archer Guild requires some physical training to use a Bow which they carry over as a Bard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AeraCross

Edit: Additionally what do you think is the weakest job lorewise? I think its Machinist considering they don't really have any supernatural powers, they rely on technology and ingenuity.

---

If we're talking about pure physical prowess then yes. But if we're talking about actual capabilities lore wise, then power through technology is still power. Are the Garleans any less of a threat because they can't use magic? I'm not going to claim MCH is the strongest lore wise, as it was designed as a way to empower those who are normally powerless in Ishgardian society, but the key to empowering is that it has to grant power. And considering that this is Ishgard we're speaking of, where fighting hoards of dragons is an every day thing, the MCHs would have to be on at least equal footing with the rest of them when used by commoners who are normally unskilled non-combatants, much less seasoned fighters with far more skill with utilizing the potential of the class to its fullest like the Warrior of Light is.....

I'd say that the weakest in terms of combat strength from a lore perspective would be the Bards actually, as their role lore wise is to empower those around them, relying primarily on the newly enhanced strength of others, rather than their own strength. While this does certainly serve it's place in combat, from a lore point of view this would put the BRD at the bottom of the totem pole on what strength they personally have......

As for the strongest, I'd have to say that SMN takes it easily, as while I haven't done the level 60 quest yet, my understanding of what happens is that *SPOILER* you single-handedly kill multiple Ascians, (albeit weaker ones), at the same time. This is something that in the course of the story took an artifact of great power and the sacrifice of an ally's life to achieve the first time, the very artifact that grants dragons, (and specifically Nidhogg), as well as the Dragoons their strength, for the second kill, and took the summoning of the most powerful primal yet, (lore wise), to cause the third story kill of an Ascian. If we're talking about raw strength lore wise, then SMN has shown the potential to harness power that is well beyond anything any other class in the game.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gamer3427

As for the strongest, I'd have to say that SMN takes it easily, as while I haven't done the level 60 quest yet, my understanding of what happens is that *SPOILER* you single-handedly kill multiple Ascians,

---

ITs true, yea its SMN for sure. When I saw that as I was doing the smn quests I was like..HOLD UP hahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Weakest is actually Machinist since what make them strong is the technology they use. Physically and magically Machinist lack any physical nor magical talent which is why the Machinist, lore wise, is the Job that can be mastered by anyone from those who lack physical or magical talents to the rich and the poor who normally would not be able to put time into the other jobs due to their personal life.

---

This, ironically and paradoxically, translates to players as:
"The only way you can play MCH is by first leveling another class to 50, and saving the world by beating the Garleans, several primals, and an Allagan weapon that was tampered with by creatures that want to destroy the planet. But anyone can totally do it, you're just lowering yourself here."

MCH story is dumb.

Strongest is hard. Depends on how you define it. I mean on one hand you have the raw destructive power the Black Mages and the ability to channel the powers of Elder Primals with SMN but you also have WARs who has heroes remembered for things like tearing the arms of a Behemoth with his bare hands (Mythril Heart must have been a god mode badass).

I don't think there is an easy answer to this.

Weakest currently would probably be MCH which is still in its infancy but it has massive potential and theoretically a person with stronger Aetheric reserves could potentially have some extremely powerful attacks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iromi

ITs true, yea its SMN for sure. When I saw that as I was doing the smn quests I was like..HOLD UP hahaha

---

I'd say black mages and white mages surpass summoners, or at least they can. There's a reason a war between them lead to the Elementals deciding that trying to kill every mortal in Eorzea was necessary. The strongest white mages were supposedly capable of altering the fabric of existence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

This, ironically and paradoxically, translates to players as:
"The only way you can play MCH is by first leveling another class to 50, and saving the world by beating the Garleans, several primals, and an Allagan weapon that was tampered with by creatures that want to destroy the planet. But anyone can totally do it, you're just lowering yourself here."

MCH story is dumb.

---

lowering yourself isn't what the WoL does when he or she becomes a MCH. When the WoL becomes a MCH he or she is the original user of the Machinist Soulstone setting the memories and skills for the successor of that Machinist Job Soulstone.

Currently MCH Soulstone used by the WoL is a clean slate which has no memories to pass on MCH skills. It is up to the WoL to build up those memories so the successor can obtain those talents while other Job Soulstones the WoL has is just the WoL obtaining memories of the Job Soulstone to obtain the power from the past users.

The reason why anyone can become a Machinist is due to originally being a crafter Job where both poor and rich would take on for crafting weapons and airships for Ishgard until the current Guild Master decided to introduce combat for the MCH job. The primary use for MCH, lore wise, is still to serve as crafters mostly for magitek industries such as the Garlond Ironworks, Airship industry, and ishgard's weapon industry.

Strongest : SMN
Weakest : MCN

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

MCH story is dumb.

---

I love how everyone hates on the MCH story because it's the only one where you're not going into a group of skilled fighters/healers that has a long history to them, and doesn't have the "only a god among men can wield the power" aspect that most of the others do. The fact that Machinistry was designed as a way to allow anyone to be able to defend themselves and their families against the draconic hoards constantly attacking Ishgard, certainly shouldn't detract from the fact that the most skilled MCHs fight on the same level, (though not the same raw DPS as), any other job out there....

Also, unlike the other jobs where you're becoming a member of an ancient, often long forgotten, group of warriors, you're instead helping to create the beginning of such a legacy. As "EdwinLi" points out above, the soulstone you receive as a MCH is blank. You're not relying on the knowledge of others who came before you to preform as well as you do in battle. Instead YOU are the one infusing the soulstone with the knowledge that future Warriors of Light will use to guide them in your footsteps......

EDIT: I'd also like to note a little bit of irony within the MCH questline. The main focus of it is that the job has no respect among the people of Ishgard, and that you're trying to slowly build that up and prove it as not only being viable, but a valuable asset in battle. Sounds a bit familiar to the situation among the playerbase doesn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gamer3427

EDIT: I'd also like to note a little bit of irony within the MCH questline. The main focus of it is that the job has no respect among the people of Ishgard, and that you're trying to slowly build that up and prove it as not only being viable, but a valuable asset in battle. Sounds a bit familiar to the situation among the playerbase doesn't it?

---

That the reason why I enjoy the MCH story. The MCH story is self aware of itself it is almost scary it a minor level.

heck even in the Job storyline all the Job story characters were fully aware of the "issues" in the Job storyline that players hated such as the Guild Master being way too over his head the entire time, which annoyed a lot of players going through the Job storyline, to the point that even the Job NPCs state what players think about him to his face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

lowering yourself isn't what the WoL does when he or she becomes a MCH. When the WoL becomes a MCH he or she is the original user of the Machinist Soulstone setting the memories and skills for the successor of that Machinist Job Soulstone.

---

The main theme and take-away from the MCH story line, is a very Kalashnikovian approach that anyone can be useful. You literally take a doorguard off the street and make him into a machinist. The 2nd best machinist before the WoL shows up is a random peasant girl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Currently MCH Soulstone used by the WoL is a clean slate which has no memories to pass on MCH skills. It is up to the WoL to build up those memories so the successor can obtain those talents while other Job Soulstones the WoL has is just the WoL obtaining memories of the Job Soulstone to obtain the power from the past users.

---

It's their unique job here, for no real reason. The entire point of soul-stones is to draw upon the souls of the people inside of them. The MCH soulstone is blank, it should, by the lore, be doing absolutely nothing. For some odd-reason, square thought it was compelling to make the WoL be one of the originators of a new job, but not the actual originator, just an underling of the person who is actually the originator.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

The reason why anyone can become a Machinist is due to originally being a crafter Job where both poor and rich would take on for crafting weapons and airships for Ishgard until the current Guild Master decided to introduce combat for the MCH job. The primary use for MCH, lore wise, is still to serve as crafters mostly for magitek industries such as the Garlond Ironworks, Airship industry, and ishgard's weapon industry.

---

And yet the mechanics of the MCH for the player are focused solely on combat. It's a discipline of war, not of the hand. It's a pretty major dissonant factor to their story.

When you play MCH, you're not the genius technician making new weapons to solve problems. You're not the hotshot gunslinger delivering justice at the end of your gun barrel. You're the new kid who's learning how to operate some new inventions that someone else made. You're Speed Racer. If Speed Racer was test driving the new Prius so that everyone could drive it after him.

On topic: Very clearly, MCH is designed to be one of the weakest jobs in-lore. Yet for odd reasons requires that the WoL first be a more powerful job/class...

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

That the reason why I enjoy the MCH story. The MCH story is self aware of itself it is almost scary it a minor level.

heck even in the Job storyline all the Job story characters were fully aware of the "issues" in the Job storyline that players hated such as the Guild Master being way too over his head the entire time, which annoyed a lot of players going through the Job storyline, to the point that even the Job NPCs state what players think about him to his face.

---

Yeah, it's lampshading a very real problem with the story, for no pay-off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gamer3427

Also, unlike the other jobs where you're becoming a member of an ancient, often long forgotten, group of warriors, you're instead helping to create the beginning of such a legacy. As "EdwinLi" points out above, the soulstone you receive as a MCH is blank. You're not relying on the knowledge of others who came before you to preform as well as you do in battle. Instead YOU are the one infusing the soulstone with the knowledge that future Warriors of Light will use to guide them in your footsteps......

---

I'm of the opinion, that any cool or redeeming aspects to the novelty of this idea is subverted by two things.
1.) They're not your inventions. Nothing you do for this entirely new profession is actually your invention.
2.) Anyone is supposed to be able to do what you're doing.

You're the first guy to drive the automobile, not the one who invented it. People remember Henry Ford, noone remembers who first drove the vehicle.

Machinists are weak, just like their damages.

Are we in a cutscene? then machinist would be strongest lol. Guns in
cutscenes are uber tier ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volsung

Are we in a cutscene? then machinist would be strongest lol. Guns in
cutscenes are uber tier ;)

---

Especially that time when a mage was about to get shot in the face, and a magical barrier just completely blocked the attack.

I would have to say the strongest within lore would be SMN. Weakest would be BRD for what they originally are; a person that sings for people and boost their morale..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Especially that time when a mage was about to get shot in the face, and a magical barrier just completely blocked the attack.

---

the mage did have primal power :)

Strongest: WHM, BLM
Weakest: MCH

White Magic was the counterpoint to the devastation wrought by Black Mage. While it's primary purpose is to heal wounds and rejuvenate, it was banned due to it's misuse with many White Mages becoming power hungry and using their abilities to do harm. The damage caused by White Magic presented such a problem than the elementals themselves destroyed many White Mages, scrubbing it from the world.

It wasn't until a long time later that White Magic was returned. To heal the Twelveswood, select few were given this power who are now known as Padjal. The offspring of a chosen few would have strong mastery of White Magic and would remain youthful. It's intentionally kept rare so as to ensure it is not given to those who are not worthy of holding such a power.

So, basically the white magic we're using in the game is the tiniest tip of a very large and very powerful iceberg. Same goes for Black Magic. We're essentially limiting our own mastery of the skills to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past. Should a Black or White mage come into the full power offered by the magicks, they would easily match and perhaps even beat Louisoix Leveilleur in terms of raw power.

And I remind you that Louisoix fought the mighty primal Bahamut on equal footing, and at his strongest.

Magic Classes aside, cause, determining which is the strongest between them is literally an e-peen competition.

I`d go either with Dragoon or Warrior for stronger class. And Bard for weakest.

Don't forget the physical power, I'd say DRG and WAR are physically the strongest. Hell, MARAUDERS still doing their starter quests split boulders.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Magic Classes aside, cause, determining which is the strongest between them is literally an e-peen competition.

I`d go either with Dragoon or Warrior for stronger class. And Bard for weakest.

---

Surely Machinist would be the weakest, since it doesn't require strength to fire a gun? Pulling back on a bow requires a decent amount of strength. Lore wise, I'd argue Warrior is supposed to be the strongest physically as they're basically the same as berserkers. Though obviously that's a far cry from the reality of the game mechanics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

And I remind you that Louisoix fought the mighty primal Bahamut on equal footing, and at his strongest.

---

But then SMN>WHM because they can channel this power at will. Oh and dragoon seem to have no problem taking down dragons. Hell even the allagans can apparently easily capture and control hundreds of them. Makes white mage seem kind of weak in comparison.

While not directly powerful, I'd like to point out that AST have the limited ability to control time. That is an extremely powerful utility; even 5 or 10 seconds of stopped time and you can finish a battle.

There's also that one theory that Astrologian magic blocked out the sky and caused the Ice age Umbral era.

Is mch quest story is about love ? I don't actually read all dialogue but from what I understand,the guild master get pissed off when Joye getting married.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

But then SMN>WHM because they can channel this power at will. Oh and dragoon seem to have no problem taking down dragons. Hell even the allagans can apparently easily capture and control hundreds of them. Makes white mage seem kind of weak in comparison.

---

Except white mages can channel their power at will, our characters and the padjal just don't have the knowledge that Amdapor did. Again, the Elementals were willing to drown the continent to make sure that knowledge was lost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Surely Machinist would be the weakest, since it doesn't require strength to fire a gun? Pulling back on a bow requires a decent amount of strength. Lore wise, I'd argue Warrior is supposed to be the strongest physically as they're basically the same as berserkers. Though obviously that's a far cry from the reality of the game mechanics.

---

Machinist has to deal with the gun recoils, these are not exactly recoiless modern guns. They are arquebuses... They hit back like a mule, being able to fire them constantly with one hand is far more stressing than tensing the bow.

About the melee, and this is where the real fun stuff is. Not only raw power (Warrior and his Berserker status) are to take into consideration, but martial dicipline, strategic thinking, historical background, etc, etc, etc. Here i think is where, we could have our "Deadliest Warrior" episode.

Warrior vs Dragoon vs Monk vs Paladin vs Dark Knight vs Ninja.

My vote is on Dragoon because of their overall formation as a Knight which includes anti-dragonic warfare and thats awesome, basically their lore background involes them being able to learn their aerial combat and strategic behavior of dragons. They might lack the strength (warrior or darknight) or the martial dicipline (monk or ninja) but they combine a bit of them with a deeper knowledge about real warfare. After them, i would even put Paladins because such formation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

While not directly powerful, I'd like to point out that AST have the limited ability to control time. That is an extremely powerful utility; even 5 or 10 seconds of stopped time and you can finish a battle.

There's also that one theory that Astrologian magic blocked out the sky and caused the Ice age Umbral era.

---

AstroLOLgian also in some ways, you could say, has future vision and also controls fate to a point... Kinda OP in my book.

Godbert Manderville's Goldsmith.

/thread

Astrologian can stop time and have infinity aether because they draw aether from the stars. Technically they have unlimited power.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

derp

---

You're objectively wrong, but okay.

You know, if we're taking things Jobs can't actually do, but certain NPCs are shown to do, into account (like Astrologian stopping time), then however strong Ninja is you need to multiply by four. That fourth Mudra turns Ninja into a one man Light Party, and between that, the stealth, mobility, and great deal of utility (which includes healing, seeing as NPC Ninjas seem to have some OP potions on hand at all times) Ninja has... Warrior might be able to split rocks, and Black Mage might be able to summon them, but a Light Party of Ninjas (which is just one Ninja) could end any of them before they get the chance to do their thing...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

You know, if we're taking things Jobs can't actually do, but certain NPCs are shown to do, into account (like Astrologian stopping time), then however strong Ninja is you need to multiply by four. That fourth Mudra turns Ninja into a one man Light Party, and between that, the stealth, mobility, and great deal of utility (which includes healing, seeing as NPC Ninjas seem to have some OP potions on hand at all times) Ninja has... Warrior might be able to split rocks, and Black Mage might be able to summon them, but a Light Party of Ninjas (which is just one Ninja) could end any of them before they get the chance to do their thing...

---

Player ASTs are capable of stopping time. It's what Celestial Opposition is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daralii

Player ASTs are capable of stopping time. It's what Celestial Opposition is.

---

Is it? Because I'm reading "Stun" instead of "Stop", though even if it applied a Stop effect (which is really no different than Stun, except I imagine it would pause cooldowns as well, and not interrupt cast times, just pause them... kinda want that now...) that would still be a Stop effect on targeted individuals. Time wouldn't be paused, just peoples perception of it.

Still arguably powerful, but... If I shoot an Astrologian, them pausing my perception of time does not stop my bullet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tint

it also increase the duration of the ast buffs on the whole party

---

Which is the same effect as Time Dilation, and the NPC actually explained how Time Dilation "cheats" our perception of time, IIRC. Realistically if either were real time manipulation, they'd not be limited to the Astrologians buffs (see: 2.5s Ascian fight, where real time manipulation occurs and it extends the duration of all our buffs).

Astrologian messes with time perception, not time itself. That's still powerful, but it's not dodge bullets powerful. Though as Y'stola has demonstrated countless times, you don't need to dodge bullets when you have a bubble shield...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

And I remind you that Louisoix fought the mighty primal Bahamut on equal footing, and at his strongest.

---

Except he didn't, he became the primal Phoenix from all the prayers around Eorzea, didn't he? He's using borrowed power.

Though if we're talking after they've achieved complete mastery over their job, it's undoubtedly Black Mage, using Shantotto as my reference here. The ability to travel dimensions and obliterate worlds with ease, I'm sorry but destroying a weak Ascian doesn't compare to that. But they're pretty boring in game to be honest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Is it? Because I'm reading "Stun" instead of "Stop", though even if it applied a Stop effect (which is really no different than Stun, except I imagine it would pause cooldowns as well, and not interrupt cast times, just pause them... kinda want that now...) that would still be a Stop effect on targeted individuals. Time wouldn't be paused, just peoples perception of it.

Still arguably powerful, but... If I shoot an Astrologian, them pausing my perception of time does not stop my bullet.

---

it also increase the duration of the ast buffs on the whole party

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

Except he didn't, he became the primal Phoenix from all the prayers around Eorzea, didn't he? He's using borrowed power.

---

The fact alone that he was able to do that is all the information you need. The only other person we know of to become a primal was Lady Iceheart, and she wasn't even a fraction of the same strength. Furthermore, he was holding Bahamut back before he even became Phoenix, and cast a powerful binding spell.

Smn, WHM and BLM are hands down the strongest jobs. Allagans feared summoners, white mages caused a calamity, and black mages have the potential to bring down meteors (as well, void mages being related to black magic).

AST aren't capable of stopping time, only slowing it. The class quest lore says that isn't even possible unless you are the highest of the high end of the sharlayan scholars. Even THAT is a big maybe.

Weakest job by far is DRG personally. A bard can at least strengthen and restore ally energy with just songs. Drg doesn't have much to go by other than being chained to a dragon's ass

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

White Magic was the counterpoint to the devastation wrought by Black Mage. While it's primary purpose is to heal wounds and rejuvenate, it was banned due to it's misuse with many White Mages becoming power hungry and using their abilities to do harm.

---

This is a very common misconception. Conjuration is healing magic alongside destructive magic; White Magic is the powerhouse. It is tapping directly into the Elemental's aether to use their energy to perform much more powerful magic. It is NOT necessarily a healer. They CAN heal, because to be a White Mage, you basically have to know Conjury (which is the healer), but healing people is not the purpose of White Magic. This was a gift bestowed on man to repair the WORLD that had been devastated by black magic. Saying a white mage is a healer is like saying a nuke is a gun. It's about scale and power.


That being said, I have to agree with the majority here that Summoner is the strongest. I'd say Scholar is probably the weakest, if we're going purely off the job concepts. Scholar is a strategist. They could win the battle, but they won't do it from pure strength, cuz.. They don't have that much. Intelligence can win a fight, but it is not power.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

The fact alone that he was able to do that is all the information you need. The only other person we know of to become a primal was Lady Iceheart, and she wasn't even a fraction of the same strength. Furthermore, he was holding Bahamut back before he even became Phoenix, and cast a powerful binding spell.

---

Don't forget, Thordan VII and The Knights of the Round, also were able to become "primals."

Either way, when it comes down to these different jobs, it's always hard to pinpoint exactly which one would be considred to be the strongest. Each one has something to it that we've seen or heard of through their respective storylines. The biggest would definitely be between BLM and WHM due to The War of the Magi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GunsBlazing

That being said, I have to agree with the majority here that Summoner is the strongest. I'd say Scholar is probably the weakest, if we're going purely off the job concepts. Scholar is a strategist. They could win the battle, but they won't do it from pure strength, cuz.. They don't have that much. Intelligence can win a fight, but it is not power.

---

scholar is technically summoner lite. That fairy is created based on the same principles as a summoner's egi--it's a portion of the caster's own soul. Theoretically they can summon bigger things, but SCH in Nym only focused on supporting the WARs in the royal marines.