Strongest Job Lorewise?

[AeraCross]

Simple question, I want to know what people think is the strongest job lorewise. Personally I think it's dragoon. Being able to jump at insane heights as well as dedicating your whole being into slaying dragons, some of the strongest enemies in Eorzea must require an extreme degree of skill, disciplicine, and exceptional physical physique. I also think it could be summoner as they theoretically can invoke the powers of each and every primal via summons or self-empowerment.

Edit: Additionally what do you think is the weakest job lorewise? I think its Machinist considering they don't really have any supernatural powers, they rely on technology and ingenuity.

Edit 2: Probably should have clarified this in the beginning. Basically what Im asking is, if all jobs had to fight eachother either 1v1 or in an all out brawl who would come out on top? Lorewise of course

[Bernelli]

Strongest? BLM, WHM, and SMN.

Weakest? BRD.

[EdwinLi]

Strongest? BLM, WHM, and SMN.

Weakest? BRD.

Weakest is actually Machinist since what make them strong is the technology they use. Physically and magically Machinist lack any physical nor magical talent which is why the Machinist, lore wise, is the Job that can be mastered by anyone from those who lack physical or magical talents to the rich and the poor who normally would not be able to put time into the other jobs due to their personal life.

Bard maintain some physical talents which is why the Archer Guild requires some physical training to use a Bow which they carry over as a Bard.

[CosmicKirby]

Weakest is actually Machinist since what make them strong is the technology they use. Physically and magically Machinist lack any physical nor magical talent which is why the Machinist, lore wise, is the Job that can be mastered by anyone from those who lack physical or magical talents to the rich and the poor who normally would not be able to put time into the other jobs due to their personal life.

This, ironically and paradoxically, translates to players as:
"The only way you can play MCH is by first leveling another class to 50, and saving the world by beating the Garleans, several primals, and an Allagan weapon that was tampered with by creatures that want to destroy the planet. But anyone can totally do it, you're just lowering yourself here."

MCH story is dumb.

[EdwinLi]

This, ironically and paradoxically, translates to players as:
"The only way you can play MCH is by first leveling another class to 50, and saving the world by beating the Garleans, several primals, and an Allagan weapon that was tampered with by creatures that want to destroy the planet. But anyone can totally do it, you're just lowering yourself here."

MCH story is dumb.

lowering yourself isn't what the WoL does when he or she becomes a MCH. When the WoL becomes a MCH he or she is the original user of the Machinist Soulstone setting the memories and skills for the successor of that Machinist Job Soulstone.

Currently MCH Soulstone used by the WoL is a clean slate which has no memories to pass on MCH skills. It is up to the WoL to build up those memories so the successor can obtain those talents while other Job Soulstones the WoL has is just the WoL obtaining memories of the Job Soulstone to obtain the power from the past users.

The reason why anyone can become a Machinist is due to originally being a crafter Job where both poor and rich would take on for crafting weapons and airships for Ishgard until the current Guild Master decided to introduce combat for the MCH job. The primary use for MCH, lore wise, is still to serve as crafters mostly for magitek industries such as the Garlond Ironworks, Airship industry, and ishgard's weapon industry.

[CosmicKirby]

lowering yourself isn't what the WoL does when he or she becomes a MCH. When the WoL becomes a MCH he or she is the original user of the Machinist Soulstone setting the memories and skills for the successor of that Machinist Job Soulstone.

The main theme and take-away from the MCH story line, is a very Kalashnikovian approach that anyone can be useful. You literally take a doorguard off the street and make him into a machinist. The 2nd best machinist before the WoL shows up is a random peasant girl.

Currently MCH Soulstone used by the WoL is a clean slate which has no memories to pass on MCH skills. It is up to the WoL to build up those memories so the successor can obtain those talents while other Job Soulstones the WoL has is just the WoL obtaining memories of the Job Soulstone to obtain the power from the past users.

It's their unique job here, for no real reason. The entire point of soul-stones is to draw upon the souls of the people inside of them. The MCH soulstone is blank, it should, by the lore, be doing absolutely nothing. For some odd-reason, square thought it was compelling to make the WoL be one of the originators of a new job, but not the actual originator, just an underling of the person who is actually the originator.

The reason why anyone can become a Machinist is due to originally being a crafter Job where both poor and rich would take on for crafting weapons and airships for Ishgard until the current Guild Master decided to introduce combat for the MCH job. The primary use for MCH, lore wise, is still to serve as crafters mostly for magitek industries such as the Garlond Ironworks, Airship industry, and ishgard's weapon industry.

And yet the mechanics of the MCH for the player are focused solely on combat. It's a discipline of war, not of the hand. It's a pretty major dissonant factor to their story.

When you play MCH, you're not the genius technician making new weapons to solve problems. You're not the hotshot gunslinger delivering justice at the end of your gun barrel. You're the new kid who's learning how to operate some new inventions that someone else made. You're Speed Racer. If Speed Racer was test driving the new Prius so that everyone could drive it after him.

On topic: Very clearly, MCH is designed to be one of the weakest jobs in-lore. Yet for odd reasons requires that the WoL first be a more powerful job/class...

Edit:

That the reason why I enjoy the MCH story. The MCH story is self aware of itself it is almost scary it a minor level.

heck even in the Job storyline all the Job story characters were fully aware of the "issues" in the Job storyline that players hated such as the Guild Master being way too over his head the entire time, which annoyed a lot of players going through the Job storyline, to the point that even the Job NPCs state what players think about him to his face.

Yeah, it's lampshading a very real problem with the story, for no pay-off.

Also, unlike the other jobs where you're becoming a member of an ancient, often long forgotten, group of warriors, you're instead helping to create the beginning of such a legacy. As "EdwinLi" points out above, the soulstone you receive as a MCH is blank. You're not relying on the knowledge of others who came before you to preform as well as you do in battle. Instead YOU are the one infusing the soulstone with the knowledge that future Warriors of Light will use to guide them in your footsteps......

I'm of the opinion, that any cool or redeeming aspects to the novelty of this idea is subverted by two things.
1.) They're not your inventions. Nothing you do for this entirely new profession is actually your invention.
2.) Anyone is supposed to be able to do what you're doing.

You're the first guy to drive the automobile, not the one who invented it. People remember Henry Ford, noone remembers who first drove the vehicle.

[Gamer3427]

MCH story is dumb.

I love how everyone hates on the MCH story because it's the only one where you're not going into a group of skilled fighters/healers that has a long history to them, and doesn't have the "only a god among men can wield the power" aspect that most of the others do. The fact that Machinistry was designed as a way to allow anyone to be able to defend themselves and their families against the draconic hoards constantly attacking Ishgard, certainly shouldn't detract from the fact that the most skilled MCHs fight on the same level, (though not the same raw DPS as), any other job out there....

Also, unlike the other jobs where you're becoming a member of an ancient, often long forgotten, group of warriors, you're instead helping to create the beginning of such a legacy. As "EdwinLi" points out above, the soulstone you receive as a MCH is blank. You're not relying on the knowledge of others who came before you to preform as well as you do in battle. Instead YOU are the one infusing the soulstone with the knowledge that future Warriors of Light will use to guide them in your footsteps......

EDIT: I'd also like to note a little bit of irony within the MCH questline. The main focus of it is that the job has no respect among the people of Ishgard, and that you're trying to slowly build that up and prove it as not only being viable, but a valuable asset in battle. Sounds a bit familiar to the situation among the playerbase doesn't it?

[EdwinLi]

EDIT: I'd also like to note a little bit of irony within the MCH questline. The main focus of it is that the job has no respect among the people of Ishgard, and that you're trying to slowly build that up and prove it as not only being viable, but a valuable asset in battle. Sounds a bit familiar to the situation among the playerbase doesn't it?

That the reason why I enjoy the MCH story. The MCH story is self aware of itself it is almost scary it a minor level.

heck even in the Job storyline all the Job story characters were fully aware of the "issues" in the Job storyline that players hated such as the Guild Master being way too over his head the entire time, which annoyed a lot of players going through the Job storyline, to the point that even the Job NPCs state what players think about him to his face.

[Felis]

This, ironically and paradoxically, translates to players as:
"The only way you can play MCH is by first leveling another class to 50, and saving the world by beating the Garleans, several primals, and an Allagan weapon that was tampered with by creatures that want to destroy the planet. But anyone can totally do it, you're just lowering yourself here."

MCH story is dumb.

the marked one is for the access to ishgard. But machinist can learn everybody in Ishhgard who is too weak for the other classes/jobs.

[Calypsx]

Physical strength I'll give to Monks followed by Warrior.

Overall strength? WHM and BLM at their peak. SMN is a runner up.