Suggestion: Server Without the Duty Finder

Forgive me if this has been asked before. What would you think of having a single, new server in FFXIV with the Duty Finder removed?

Sure I don't use it now(as a cross server match-up anyway), but everyone else is; tempted by the shorter wait times.

I miss the old days of stronger, closely-knit communities where it was easier to make friends and people had reputations to uphold if they wanted to get in groups. If there was no DF, then everyone on the server would be using PF and/or communicating more. Don't have time to wait? Stay on the rest of the servers with DF.

I doubt it will ever happen, but it seems like something that would be easy to implement.

Thoughts?

If I didn't already have friends and fc mates on my server, I'd transfer. Sounds like a good community could foster there.

I like the DF.

I wouldn't be interested. Sure, it may be nicer with current content but for everything else? Sometimes I just want to pop a trial roulette and play whatever it gives me, or if I'm leveling another class and queue for some low level dungeons. I'm not particularly interested in the hassle of creating a party, but I know some people are.

Why not? I'd stick to Tonberry, but if it has no effect on current servers I have no reason to oppose the idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Forgive me if this has been asked before. What would you think of having a single, new server in FFXIV with the Duty Finder removed?

Sure I don't use it now(as a cross server match-up anyway), but everyone else is; tempted by the shorter wait times.

I miss the old days of stronger, closely-knit communities where it was easier to make friends and people had reputations to uphold if they wanted to get in groups. If there was no DF, then everyone on the server would be using PF and/or communicating more. Don't have time to wait? Stay on the rest of the servers with DF.

I doubt it will ever happen, but it seems like something that would be easy to implement.

Thoughts?

---

Ask yourself why the DF was put in place.

Considering that incentives like extra EXP, gil, and tomestones are put into the DF to push people into using it so that others who need to do story quests or are wanting to do an optional dungeon aren't stuck in limbo, I don't think this idea is addressing that problem.

Huh, well it's really just a pipe dream, but I'd surely join a server without DF in the name of having a close-knit community that works together, and where negative actions have strong consequences.

But at the same time, we have to consider what will become of newer players or alternate classes. This idea rides on the assumption that people there will be willing to help you on lower-level content while you're still leveling. If we got friendly folks like the people on this forum on there then this wouldn't be an issue. But brand new players who don't even know what the Duty Finder is and elitist statics/FCs migrating there could easily kill the server.

I understand the sentiment for it, but I don't think it would work well in practice. FFXI wait times for groups with a single server population kind of prove the point on that. I think things like EverQuest's classic servers (roll back time to the release of the game, and expansions come out on an accelerated schedule so you can experience the game as it used to be and progress through over time) are better experiments, but FF14 hasn't been around long enough for that. Although a FF14 1.0 server would be something neat although they won't ever do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Thoughts?

---

DF is built into the very fiber of the game so no, they can't remove it make it feel like the old days whatever that means. Use Party Finder or group up with a friendly FC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saccharin

Ask yourself why the DF was put in place.

---

Removing the duty finder may not be the right course of action. The problem is that MMOs have become increasingly anti-social. Most games u go from 1-max lvl without ever talking to others.

What developers need to address is the growing lack of social community in games. Having to talk to people to find a party meant those who were successful at this found good guilds and had a great time, but it certainly had its draw backs. Going back to where it was a chore to find a party may not be a good solution. I would like to see guilds play a specific role in the world and level up in unique ways. And maybe have the same thing for friend lists where the more you play with specific people the more bonuses you get.

So while you may think someone wanting to remove the duty finder is silly, keep in mind the reason they request it is because the growing isolation in MMO communities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abelli

Having to talk to people to find a party meant those who were successful at this found good guilds and had a great time

---

And those who were bad at it grew increasingly frustrated with the game until they quit.

There are many reasons you might not be good at socializing. There's social anxiety for one, maybe you type really slowly, maybe you're dyslexic and don't want to appear stupid through your terrible spelling. Maybe you only read and understand English without being able to put together a sentence because it's not your first, second or even third language, that is the case for a lot of people in Europe. Maybe you just like to play the game as it is without having to jump through hoops for hours just to get to what you enjoy, eg. dungeons.

Accessibility through the Duty Finder is NOT a bad thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abelli

Removing the duty finder may not be the right course of action. The problem is that MMOs have become increasingly anti-social. Most games u go from 1-max lvl without ever talking to others.

What developers need to address is the growing lack of social community in games. Having to talk to people to find a party meant those who were successful at this found good guilds and had a great time, but it certainly had its draw backs. Going back to where it was a chore to find a party may not be a good solution. I would like to see guilds play a specific role in the world and level up in unique ways. And maybe have the same thing for friend lists where the more you play with specific people the more bonuses you get.

So while you may think someone wanting to remove the duty finder is silly, keep in mind the reason they request it is because the growing isolation in MMO communities.

---

Complete nonsense, mmos are no less social than before, try joining an FC.

What you're really asking for is downtime, the only reason you had time to chat in old mmo's is because of the ridiculous amount of time you had to spend waiting, either to get a party or during a party waiting for healers mp to regen etc.

Ah official forums, where better to find the lowest common denominator. Trying to argue with me about how good the duty finder is for the game when I stated removing it wasn't a good solution. And another telling me to get a FC without even checking my profile. I would have a more fruitful conversation about MMOs with a rock.

As much as I despise the duty finder you wouldn't get much done with it removed, the game is far too focused on using it to accomplish most tasks for your battle character.

The base game would need a community focused redesign to make the Duty finder not required, I'd love it if so.

• Usefullness and reasoning to be in a free company other needs a boost
• Open world content needs to be much more than hunts and FATES
• Open world Dungeons
• Dangerous overworld areas
• Moving from one area to another is more difficult than a button press

Things like these help foster communities. Some things that people call archaich and not friendly to players such as the fear or death and penalties, difficult travel, need to group with people on your server to do content. These bring people together to overcome adversity.


The developers have streamlined everything to a point that you don't need to interact with the community anymore so most people just don't.

You can do this right now. Go ahead and recruit people from all servers and build this community.

Wait...you cant? Not enough people to sustain this?

Basically, if you cant build this idea on a current server, you wont be able to get it to work on its own server.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonleg

There are many reasons you might not be good at socializing. [...]

---

Using voicechat fixes all this, save for not speaking English. I'm no fan of voicechat, but I used it during endgame content in ARR. Teamspeak is pretty accessible (you can even get it on your phone), and Discord is free. True, others will have reasons for not really wanting to do this...but I think that learning to socialize with different types of people and growing past people's awkward/stunted social skills (or growing past them yourself) is a very good thing to do. Even if it's done online with people you've never met, growth is still growth.

Quote:

---

The base game would need a community focused redesign to make the Duty finder not required, I'd love it if so.

Usefullness and reasoning to be in a free company other needs a boost
Open world content needs to be much more than hunts and FATES
Open world Dungeons
Dangerous overworld areas
Moving from one area to another is more difficult than a button press

---

I agree on all points except the open world dungeons one. I quite like that dungeons are instanced. Not saying that I would hate them to be in-world (it would remind me of FFXII, which is a good thing), but I've already seen more than enough bots in my instances. I really don't want them charging into dungeons and ruining the experience without the ability to remove them.

Open world dungeons would just lead to lines forming in front of bosses - and some fool would always cut the line and kill the boss before your turn came up. You'd have giant zerg armies clearing the place - and steam rolling past the few players trying to do it at proper group size. Basically you'd have Everquest 1...

The thing about all these requests people always make for a special server is that you have to wonder how many people asking for it would try it and give up on it a few weeks in out of frustration. I realize that is a VERY BAD REASON to deny changes. In fact its probably the stupidest reason one could use to defeat a NEW idea...

...But lets look at Wildstar for a second - the game that promised dungeons would finally be hard again and raids would actually require all 40 players coordinate. They delivered that, perfectly. And now they've patched it all out, and are going F2P end of this month. Its a great game... especially in its now patched state. But actually delivering on that demand to roll back the clock on MMO design seriously hurt its success.

- If you really want a game with no duty finder and open world dungeons, go show your never cancelled sub to Everquest 1 to the devs, and that your play time still shows several hours a week, as it has since the 1990s. Otherwise... your demand is a big risk.

Because this isn't me chanting down a new idea. Its me pointing out that your request is actually a very old one, that the market long ago rejected. We now need to prove that the rejection was the wrong idea... and that takes showing them numbers...

As a player who was playing World of Warcraft and Star Wars the Old Republic before each had a dungeon finder I will tell you that it is really not as fun as you think it would be. I can remember spending hours looking for groups for specific dungeons in both games back in those days. The party finder would help sure over what you had to do back then yelling over and over about looking for a group til you found people. Yes I was in guilds in both but that does not always mean there are people on and interested in the same content you are all the time.

You mean I'd actually have to remember where dungeon entrances are? XD

Also, RIP PvP. I can't imagine seeing 24 people surrounding the PvP entrances.

Leveling would be horrible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Forgive me if this has been asked before. What would you think of having a single, new server in FFXIV with the Duty Finder removed?

---

I think it would be the kind of thing people who have a hard on for the nostalgic past would try for 10 minutes and immediately ask for a way back to the old servers when they're given a harsh reminder of why pre-DF games sucked in a big way.

Quote:

---

Sure I don't use it now(as a cross server match-up anyway), but everyone else is; tempted by the shorter wait times.

---

Of course. Because it's not fun potentially waiting hours for a group if you're not playing a FotM class or you aren't playing during prime time. The lack of DF also tended to make parties an organizational nightmare even if you filled one of the more popular roles during peak hours.

Quote:

---

I miss the old days of stronger, closely-knit communities where it was easier to make friends and people had reputations to uphold if they wanted to get in groups. If there was no DF, then everyone on the server would be using PF and/or communicating more. Don't have time to wait? Stay on the rest of the servers with DF.

---

This is a common "argument" and it's a wild exaggeration and misrepresentation of what old pre-DF games were like. Friends are just as easy to make now as they were back then. You mean to say you were forced to make friends with people, for better or worse, before DF became a common thing. Personal reputation also typically meant very little. You could easily be considered by some to be the biggest asshole on the server and you could still find groups just fine. For every person who thought you were a dickbag there would be five more waiting around the corner who didn't give a shit about what someone claimed you did. It may have been general consensus among your LS/Guild mates that Muscular Manny should go die in a fire, but the rest of the server never cared enough to completely ostracize him.

In my personal experience (especially with FFXI), pre-DF games were even less social than what we have now. Your Guild or Linkshell or Clan or whatever the game called it may have been tight-knit, but because competition for mobs and resources were so much greater (because everything was open-world) I found that if someone wasn't part of your clique they were usually considered an enemy and you were constantly at each other's throats. It was a bunch of tiny isolated communities at end-game instead of the big Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood people like to remember. Naturally you still had friends outside of your LS and you often were on friendly terms with other Linkshells, but when push came to shove it was always every man for himself and trying your best to throw someone else under the bus was common practice.

Quote:

---

Thoughts?

---

I think nostalgia is dangerous thing.

Why would you want to go back to prehistoric times of MMOs where you had to shout at players standing outside of a dungeon, just to form up enough people to get inside said dungeon. Of course you would make friends if you had to stand by the same people for days at a time. You should ask for your server to not have PFs either, to get the true, classic MMORPG feeling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PArcher

You can do this right now. Go ahead and recruit people from all servers and build this community.

Wait...you cant? Not enough people to sustain this?

Basically, if you cant build this idea on a current server, you wont be able to get it to work on its own server.

---

Trust me, I've already had such fantasies. My guess is I'd get only a small fraction of the server to join in and no it wouldn't be enough, though if I had that fraction from every server, that may just add up to a nice populated world.

And I agree the DF needs to remain in game, (a MMO today couldn't compete without it. I understand that most people want it, and want it now!) I just think it would be fun to have one server without.

I think its most important just to galvanize yourself in your actual servers community by crafting, talking in shout with each other, and your own free company. Foster friendships between companies too!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abelli

Removing the duty finder may not be the right course of action. The problem is that MMOs have become increasingly anti-social. Most games u go from 1-max lvl without ever talking to others.


So while you may think someone wanting to remove the duty finder is silly, keep in mind the reason they request it is because the growing isolation in MMO communities.

---

And forcing players to be joined at the hip to accomplish anything outside maybe crafting is also bullshit and the wrong way to go about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

The developers have streamlined everything to a point that you don't need to interact with the community anymore so most people just don't.

---

Well, for starters, there's no general, server wide chat channel.

Or one across cities.

You get... shouts. That's it. Way to get people to talk to folks.

Most of my friends in games came not from actually doing things with them, but by having general discussions with them in public channels, which leads to tells and eventually group and guild invites. Limiting chat to one zone at a time, and even then not necessarily the entire zone, is pretty much not a very friendly thing to start with. It's almost like they don't *want* you to meet people.

Ah, i'm reminded of when wow did not have a dungeon finder.

Me: "I want to do a dungeon :D"
Me: *spams LFG chat for a 30 minutes*
-A person is interested, and joins the group-
Me: *spams LFG chat for another 30 minutes*
-First person gets bored and leaves-
-I get a second person requesting to join, but they see it's just me in the party, so they also leave-

Ah, but when i did get a group, the bonds i forged that day lasted about a month.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amiaze

Using voicechat fixes all this, save for not speaking English. I'm no fan of voicechat, but I used it during endgame content in ARR. Teamspeak is pretty accessible (you can even get it on your phone), and Discord is free. True, others will have reasons for not really wanting to do this...but I think that learning to socialize with different types of people and growing past people's awkward/stunted social skills (or growing past them yourself) is a very good thing to do.

---

That doesn't help with anxiety, and voice chat can be an utter mess without a goal (like clearing content). Nothing like the new guy to the guild lusting after that girl he heard! Everyone loves the drama.

Before I was here, I was on a MMO without DF. First month, DPS could get a party. Next month, took some waiting but was doable. After? You had to beg guild mates to power you through.. And then not even tanks/healers could get in. No thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

I doubt it will ever happen, but it seems like something that would be easy to implement.

---

why do people think "Server with unique code" would be easy?

Seems like a waste of resources. This server would be so dead it wouldn't be worth the effort for Square Enix to use it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Trust me, I've already had such fantasies. My guess is I'd get only a small fraction of the server to join in and no it wouldn't be enough, though if I had that fraction from every server, that may just add up to a nice populated world.

And I agree the DF needs to remain in game, (a MMO today couldn't compete without it. I understand that most people want it, and want it now!) I just think it would be fun to have one server without.

---

The key issue is your assumption that the lack of social communication is based on DF. I counter with FATE grinding. It's Open World, server based leveling yet still not a lot of chatting going on. Now write your reply in 2.5 second or less and you might found the real issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

I counter with FATE grinding. It's Open World, server based leveling yet still not a lot of chatting going on

---

Because while it's open world it really doesn't require interaction with the other people you are playing with. Doesn't actually require multiple people to show any form of coordination, or present any real challenge to players.

It's not just being open world on the same server that fosters a server community. A trial that must be overcome or becomes much easier and fun with multiple people. Make getting to the next zone a challenge solo encourages people to travel in groups or to assist others they see out in the field. FFXI for example if you seen someone agro a monster you were more inclined to help them because you know what happens when they die, the real consequences of the act is that they could possibly lose EXP and time getting back to the area.

This encouraged people to interact, a random act of kindness that could lead to a friendship or rivalry or just hope that some day the favor would be payed forward.

Adversity gives grounds for cooperation. A sterile safe world does not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jomoru

why do people think "Server with unique code" would be easy?

---

I've done programming with popular gaming computer languages such as C++ and Ruby. I can't imagine it being difficult at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

I've done programming with popular gaming computer languages such as C++ and Ruby. I can't imagine it being difficult at all.

---

"Gaming computer languages" and "C++" don't belong in the same sentence.

And for the record, the original World of Warcraft was written in C. Old school C.
>.>

well they were the top a few years back. I know developers in japan preferred Ruby. Maybe not so much online games. Point being, with my time programming video games, it doesn't seem difficult to say, disable a script or code associated with the DF. To create something new and implementing it yes. To disable, return a nil, whatever, not so much.

My point was that it's not a gaming language.

Iirc, Windows was written in C at one point. There is no programming language out there used exclusively for programming games. C++ is common, but its got more use elsewhere.