Disconnected from Server - Lost all Crafting Materials......

Title says it all,

I know they cannot make it so if you disconnect the mats are returned to you because people would abuse it. I think the issue is not being able to log immediately back in once disconnected. You have to wait for the server to log you out (causing you to lose all mats). Then you can log back in. If you could immediately log back in and pick up where you left off in the Craft you could at least save yourself from losing all those materials.

I know they may not be able to do this because of Hardware / Software issues/limitations. But would still like to know if any or how many have also had this happen to them, or if people have been able to log back in and finish the crafts without losing mats.

Cheers

I'm not sure what you lost but I'm really sorry. The fact that they haven't fixed this is INSANE. IMO the laziest solution they could do would be to at least put in an automatic reclaim on disconnect. This would alleviate the problem some without requiring a complicated solution.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

I'm not sure what you lost but I'm really sorry. The fact that they haven't fixed this is INSANE. IMO the laziest solution they could do would be to at least put in an automatic reclaim on disconnect. This would alleviate the problem some without requiring a complicated solution.

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Unfortunately that would be too easy to abuse. Just failed 5 hasty touches in a row on your 2 star craft? Pull the plug!

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Originally Posted by Deathgiver

Unfortunately that would be too easy to abuse. Just failed 5 hasty touches in a row on your 2 star craft? Pull the plug!

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Maybe fix crafting so that failing 5 hasty touches in a row doesn't automatically equate to a failed recipe. Good sign of lazy design when failure is out of the hands of the player.

i lost an adamantite ingot the same way a few weeks ago. tried putting in a ticket detailing everything, they said nope. gotta let it go.

a reconnect system on disconnection during crafting is long overdue. esp when mats are expensive as fuck

now I know a few folks that have lost 3 to 4 part redscrip recipes doing this. Oh and reclaim doesn't even work half the time but that is irrelevant here.

What they need to do is save your character, and the Synth status, at the end of every step of a craft. Crafting related buffs (Great Strides, Steady Hand 1/2, Innovation, etc), what your current Progress is, what your current Quality is, what number of Step you are on, everything.

Disconnect? No worries - your stuff is still there, exactly as you left it - except maybe for food buffs or other non-crafting buffs that may have expired while you were trying to reconnect.

Fail 5 Hasties in a row, and pull the plug? No worries - your Synthesis is still there, with all five Hasty Touches failed, when you return.

I cannot see a way that this could be abused, myself.

Since HW so many things broke that they'd have to dedicate an entire update to fixing the expansion so I doubt any fixes are coming

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

What they need to do is save your character, and the Synth status, at the end of every step of a craft. Crafting related buffs (Great Strides, Steady Hand 1/2, Innovation, etc), what your current Progress is, what your current Quality is, what number of Step you are on, everything.

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This has been proposed a bunch of times. The counter argument is always that it's too server / bandwidth expensive to be feasible. I have suggested giving us an allowance, like 3-5 a day, so we can apply the system to use on our big ticket items. It's not perfect but at least you can rest easy making the 10m item while not eating precious server cycles / bandwidth batching nuggets.

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Originally Posted by Deathgiver

Unfortunately that would be too easy to abuse. Just failed 5 hasty touches in a row on your 2 star craft? Pull the plug!

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When I say grant an automatic Reclaim when DCed. I literally mean the ability reclaim AKA 90% chance for success 10% chance for failure. This would bear the same risk as reclaiming early and dumping out for no reason. This would not be ab-usable. But it would save us 90% of the time on disconnection... honestly I have no idea why they haven't done this.

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Originally Posted by govtcheeze

This has been proposed a bunch of times. The counter argument is always that it's too server / bandwidth expensive to be feasible. I have suggested giving us an allowance, like 3-5 a day, so we can apply the system to use on our big ticket items. It's not perfect but at least you can rest easy making the 10m item while not eating precious server cycles / bandwidth batching nuggets.

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Unless its a SE Dev telling us that, then that's a pointless counter argument.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

When I say grant an automatic Reclaim when DCed. I literally mean the ability reclaim AKA 90% chance for success 10% chance for failure. This would bear the same risk as reclaiming early and dumping out for no reason. This would not be ab-usable. But it would save us 90% of the time on disconnection... honestly I have no idea why they haven't done this.

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It depends on how this solution is implemented. If every crafter gets the auto reclaim despite not having the reclaim ability equipped, then the current level 50 ability becomes worthless. No rational crafter would equip reclaim and waste a cross class slot if they could simply disconnect if the craft goes south.

Right you would need to require reclaim is equipped... or make it baseline. IMO it should be baseline to all classes anyway.

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Originally Posted by govtcheeze

This has been proposed a bunch of times. The counter argument is always that it's too server / bandwidth expensive to be feasible. I have suggested giving us an allowance, like 3-5 a day, so we can apply the system to use on our big ticket items. It's not perfect but at least you can rest easy making the 10m item while not eating precious server cycles / bandwidth batching nuggets.

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Don't save every craft. Not the mythril ingots or the x-potions of strength. Let us choose. Talk to an NPC. Then the NPC "saves" the next craft. Asking the server to track only a few crafts isn't much. Then we can use it when we make our adamantite ingots and our forgemaster's hammers and stuff.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Don't save every craft. Not the mythril ingots or the x-potions of strength. Let us choose. Talk to an NPC. Then the NPC "saves" the next craft. Asking the server to track only a few crafts isn't much. Then we can use it when we make our adamantite ingots and our forgemaster's hammers and stuff.

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No, DO save "every craft" ... but have the Quick Synthesis not get saved that way.

If you want to make your HQ Mythrite Ingots the hard way, then yes, it should be saved every step of every craft. If you only want NQ Mythrite Ingots because you don't need the HQ, but you want them in a hurry so you Quick Synth them, then no, that should not be saved.

It HAS to be either all or nothing, something applied all the time. It cannot be something that is only done selectively, regardless of who is doing the selecting.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

No, DO save "every craft" ... but have the Quick Synthesis not get saved that way.

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The volume of data to track for every craft is not small. I feel like we've had this conversation before... and we have:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...83#post3265483

That post and the one before it. There is a lot to track. IMO, expecting them to track every synth is just silly and overkill. And if you are asking for "all or nothing" then you'll get nothing. Why track 50000 synths for the 1 legit DC-synth? Forget the mythrite nuggets. I'd rather lose plenty of those and actually get the feature added for the Millmaster's Saws. Let an NPC trigger the "save state."

And there goes a pair of thav tights....

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Originally Posted by dspguy

The volume of data to track for every craft is not small. I feel like we've had this conversation before... and we have:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...83#post3265483

That post and the one before it. There is a lot to track. IMO, expecting them to track every synth is just silly and overkill. And if you are asking for "all or nothing" then you'll get nothing. Why track 50000 synths for the 1 legit DC-synth? Forget the mythrite nuggets. I'd rather lose plenty of those and actually get the feature added for the Millmaster's Saws. Let an NPC trigger the "save state."

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Where'd the Dev comment that it was too much to keep track of? All I see is people who don't appear to want it saying its too much to keep track of.

Progress. Quality. Crafting-induced buffs with charges. Number of Steps taken. Current CP. Item being crafted. Current Condition. Current RNG seed affecting the crafting, *maybe*. And only at the end of each crafting move, so QS and non-crafting saves normally.

That's a heck of a lot less than is normally saved, whenever you zone or whatever else triggers a full character save (which happens to be location, every item you have equipped, including all modifications to the items you have equipped such as wear materia and glamour, current buffs, etc.) ... So no, we're not asking for a lot of extra bandwidth burden or server burden with this.

And unless or until someone from SE says otherwise, you and I can only guess as to just how much bandwidth or how burdensome any of this may actually be.

You're delusional if you think it needs to keep track of every step that has taken place. All it has to keep track of, in addition to your character, are those six or seven things, plus buffs. Everything else (such as IQ's impact on Control, or Innovation's impact on Control) are calculated on the fly anyway, so do not need to be stored.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

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I agree, there is no reason for it to save all your previous steps as it's completely irrelevant. It really just needs to update a handful of numerical values. I'd be surprised if this was more than few kilobytes worth of data. It's not like the entire server population will crash the server by crafting simultaneously, a very unlikely scenario.

Didn't think I said it had to track all of the previous steps. It is just a lot to ask to update for each step:

The state of the synth.
Is SH up? SH2? WN2? Manipulation? Is it a good? excellent? How many stacks of SH, SH2, WN, Manip, CZ, ING2, ING1, GS, Innovation, Maker's Mark, IQ stacks (and if using specialist actions), Whistle stacks, etc etc. Durability, progress.

My point is, you are asking for a lot when all you need is a little.

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Originally Posted by Valinthor

Title says it all,

I know they cannot make it so if you disconnect the mats are returned to you because people would abuse it. I think the issue is not being able to log immediately back in once disconnected. You have to wait for the server to log you out (causing you to lose all mats). Then you can log back in. If you could immediately log back in and pick up where you left off in the Craft you could at least save yourself from losing all those materials.

I know they may not be able to do this because of Hardware / Software issues/limitations. But would still like to know if any or how many have also had this happen to them, or if people have been able to log back in and finish the crafts without losing mats.

Cheers

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I had one time of such DC at the beginning of Patch 2.2. Someone paid me commission and gave me the mats for making the Cashmere Robe of Healing HQ. I made it to IQ9, and was about to use Byregot. Then the DC happened, and all was lost.At that time, my bank was only 850K, and the mats were worth more than 1.1 million. My hands turned cold, and I felt my face out of blood. There was no remedy except started grinding Brayflox HM all day to recover the lost mats... And also asked friends to do me a favor on gathering... Since then, I avoided that time of the day for any kind of important crafting.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Didn't think I said it had to track all of the previous steps. It is just a lot to ask to update for each step:

The state of the synth.
Is SH up? SH2? WN2? Manipulation? Is it a good? excellent? How many stacks of SH, SH2, WN, Manip, CZ, ING2, ING1, GS, Innovation, Maker's Mark, IQ stacks (and if using specialist actions), Whistle stacks, etc etc. Durability, progress.

My point is, you are asking for a lot when all you need is a little.

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It's asking a lot to have the game update your characters state every time you swap a gear piece, every time your food buff ticks down or ever time you perform an attack that applies a buff or debuff to you or an enemy. Do you understand how everything you are saying can be applied to how the game keep track of buffs/debuffs and character states for the rest of the game?

If I 90k I don't have to put all my gear back on or rezone into an instance because the game clearly saves this information. Hell, they could save it all as an item that goes in your Quest bag and just let you save/resume recipes at will if you have a queue pop or something mid craft.

I've always wondered what actually happened on the server side as it's "preparing to kick you out of the game" as you're disconnecting (that entire minute or so that you're unable to log back in because "you're already logged in"). Why couldn't it save your craft state as it's doing this and only during this time? Wouldn't that save a lot of unnecessary bandwidth that people are suggesting for saving the state after every action?
Also, why not just take the extra minute or two to save the synth by saving the bits little by little. I'd prefer taking extra time to log in over losing all of my mats ...

I think we can all agree on one thing. They could do something about it. It isn't like you DC out in Hinterlands and wind up in Gridania when you come back.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Didn't think I said it had to track all of the previous steps. It is just a lot to ask to update for each step:

The state of the synth.
Is SH up? SH2? WN2? Manipulation? Is it a good? excellent? How many stacks of SH, SH2, WN, Manip, CZ, ING2, ING1, GS, Innovation, Maker's Mark, IQ stacks (and if using specialist actions), Whistle stacks, etc etc. Durability, progress.

My point is, you are asking for a lot when all you need is a little.

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Lets see here .. you mention 13 buffs. That's 13 bytes worth of information : number of charges remaining, and if its a 0, then the buff is not up. I don't know what other buffs are involved in Specialist actions as I've not toyed around with them. But then there's also the Condition (another byte, ranging in value from 0 to 3 : Poor, Normal, Good, Excellent), CP remaining, Quality, and Progress.

That's ... not a lot of information to be tacked on to a normal character save. And you KNOW that a normal character save occurs at least at the start of a synth because of the loss of all materials if you disconnect (they've been taken out of your inventory, so they're not there in your inventory when you get back in game).

That character save happening at the end of every step would not slow things down.

Auto reclaim would be an abuse ?
Loose Mats for disconnection is not an abuse ?
Abuse of the abuse easy answer is not an abuse ? ...

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

Auto reclaim would be an abuse ?
Loose Mats for disconnection is not an abuse ?
Abuse of the abuse easy answer is not an abuse ? ...

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Well and the thing I don't understand about people saying Auto-Reclaim could be abused... reclaim has a 10% failure chance... which is why we don't abuse it right now.... because a 10% chance to utterly fail everything sucks. So disconnecting to face a 10% chance of loss isn't advantageous... unless you tried to fish proc your Byregot's and you're out of CP. In which case the client/server should check on DC if the person had enough CP to cast reclaim. If not, too bad. Otherwise auto reclaim. Then at least 90% of the time after a DC you should have your materials.

If you aren't "abusing" Reclaim you should be. If you have 56CP left and the conditions aren't favorable to HQ something like a 2-star item, why finish it? Yes, it would absolutely stink to lose 10M+ of ingredients, but let's be honest, what good is an NQ result? It has the same stats as something that costs about a hundredth of it. I doubt you'd sell it for even a tenth of the cost. In other words, continuing a failing synthesis is as good as losing 10M+ ingredients.

Reclaim. Don't buy into the horror stories of reclaim. 90% is 90%. All the people with their reclaim anecdotes don't mention the 9/10 times it does work. Seriously, make a macro. Make some copper ingots. Reclaim. Do it 1000 times (enough to get a reasonable sample space). Check how many sets of ingredients you have left on you. It would be in the ballpark of 900 (90%). Anyway, this thread isn't about reclaim exactly, but it is a useful tool. Don't be afraid to save your mats at a 90% rate as opposed to a 25% HQ chance since you only got 9 IQ stacks.

No you're absolutely right Jain Farstrider. Reclaim isn't bad at all. Its very useful when used with goods where NQ is just as bad as failing. But DCing shouldn't result in an automatic loss... clearly that is a terrible implementation. Having a DC force a reclaim is a super simple QoL improvment they could make for us.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Yes, it would absolutely stink to lose 10M+ of ingredients, but let's be honest, what good is an NQ result? It has the same stats as something that costs about a hundredth of it. I doubt you'd sell it for even a tenth of the cost. In other words, continuing a failing synthesis is as good as losing 10M+ ingredients.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

No you're absolutely right Jain Farstrider. Reclaim isn't bad at all. Its very useful when used with goods where NQ is just as bad as failing. But DCing shouldn't result in an automatic loss... clearly that is a terrible implementation. Having a DC force a reclaim is a super simple QoL improvment they could make for us.

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I apologize for going off topic here, but isn't it a little retarded that NQ and a failed synthesis are effectively the same result? An expansion comes out and there is zero effort to expand on anything. We just keep getting more RNG because it takes less effort to implement.

While all needing all HQ equipment was true in the past. I don't think this will be true for Heavensword Three Star requirements. one would assume someone with all i180 gear will meet the minimum requirements (unless SE really hates their player base). And since i170 HQ gear with decent melds has higher stats... this means in theory you could have a few NQ pieces. They will be worth less, but still usable.

What they SHOULD do, is lower the overall materia requirements for maxing gear. Such that HQ gear is easily maxable and NQ gear is maxable but requires expensive materia (like they did for foragers/artisan gear). And this should be true for ALL PARTS including main and offhand gear. This would remove the severe punishment for NQing. But still cause a heavier cost to be incurred for NQing. Now as said above this may indeed be the true going forward, we'll just have to see.

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Originally Posted by Katlyna

What they SHOULD do, is lower the overall materia requirements for maxing gear. Such that HQ gear is easily maxable and NQ gear is maxable but requires expensive materia (like they did for foragers/artisan gear). And this should be true for ALL PARTS including main and offhand gear. This would remove the severe punishment for NQing. But still cause a heavier cost to be incurred for NQing. Now as said above this may indeed be the true going forward, we'll just have to see.

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I don't understand why they don't do this. Even with Tier Vs, DoW/DoM gear is mostly worthless because you can't even meld enough stats to the gear pieces to make up for the lost primary stats from the gear being 30 ilvls lower. Having a way to bring the gap between NQ and HQ would remove some of the frustrating RNG component of craft (hey bro, that's a nice 98% HQ you have there... it'd be a real shame if something happened to it). If HQ and NQ gear could both reach the same caps, with HQ requiring now overmelds (like Forager/Artisan gear) and NQ requiring overmelds then NQ gear would actually have some value to them. It's not a perfect design because I think the materia system in this game is complete shit and exists only due to nostalgia, but it's much better than the current system where NQ gear is only good for glamour and spiritbinding.

This game is filled with so much binary RNG design because it's the path of least resistance. RNG is RNG and when you fail to HQ a 2* craft because you failed 5-6 Hasty Touches you begin to realize how little flat the crafting system actually is.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

Even with Tier Vs, DoW/DoM gear is mostly worthless because you can't even meld enough stats to the gear pieces to make up for the lost primary stats from the gear being 30 ilvls lower.

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I believe they did that on purpose. They don't want it being a substitute for any gear, because of the fact that people were doing just that.

Also, I don't know if you were around for the i55 gear, but you couldn't max-meld the NQ versions of those either. Perhaps it's just a matter of time and we have to wait for artisan 2.0 (or I guess 3.0?) where we'll have easier meld caps (and hopefully not requiring any tier V overmelds) ?

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Originally Posted by TechnoTechie

Also, I don't know if you were around for the i55 gear, but you couldn't max-meld the NQ versions of those either. Perhaps it's just a matter of time and we have to wait for artisan 2.0 (or I guess 3.0?) where we'll have easier meld caps (and hopefully not requiring any tier V overmelds) ?

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I'm not sure if we'll be seeing that again unless they change the current direction of crafting. At that time, their solution to the accessibility issue with crafting appeared to make things easier for players to be omni-crafters. Of course, that also meant you absolutely had to have most classes at level 50 to be able to effectively craft the best items in the game. Right now, their answer for casual crafters is i180 red scrip gear.

I think that they might release catch-up gear like the i70 artisan's gear (ie. designed for all 2* crafts, while everyone will want to craft 3* items), but I wouldn't expect multi-class "state of the art gear" with extra materia slots and low meld caps to be released again.