Just need to vent...

Ok, I'm not mad or anything just a bit frustrated. I switch GC a lot on Chaos data-center. Ever since a few weeks before 3.0 I feel like I've always switched to the losing/worst GC on Chaos. Only exceptions were Mael before 3.0 and a switch to flames a few weeks after 3.0.

Example:
Recently I spent 2 weeks in adders. I knew they were pretty, um, not good, so nothing out of the ordinary there. I think my win rate those 2 weeks were about 20%. A few days ago I switched to mael again. And now adders win every match lmao. Maybe I'm just that bad a player...

And, no, I don't "aim" for the "best" GC, i just cycle around. If so I would have just stayed in flames after 3.0.

My impression on Mael after 3.0 is not that good. I know there are awesome players here, but it seems we turn into adders pre-3.0 on occasions.

Anyone on Chaos from Mael who feels differently?

Nope..I feel the exact same

Except I never switch GC, Maelstrom all the way, but really I haven't won a single match today, and only a handful the last few. Wonder what's wrong?

We just got some ex mael and flames players, including an odin pre made.

Honestly, in my experience, the three GC's are pretty much equal in win's and losses. I usually end my week with a straight 30% across the board, and I'm in the GC that is widely considered to have the most noobs. That magical "winning GC" that people talk about when they refer to people who swap GC's to chase wins (not you, I read, but it's a common thread topic), is the unicorn of PvP. I don't think it exists. People just make snap judgments based on personal win/lose records, and anytime there's a streak they jump the gun and assume that GC has the best or worst players. This is especially true because our Alliances are made up of cross world players. You could be on a 3 game streak because you lucked out and found a premade from another world.. or you could be on a 3 game losing streak because you happened to get shafted with the team from the world that only has casual PvP'ers. Break up your que line by doing something else for a bit, and you might find your luck has changed.

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Originally Posted by Februs

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Yes I'm aware. My win rate is 30-40% on average I guess. I don't keep track. With adders it has always been below 30%. I agree there is no "best" GC. However, flames do have the highest win rate on Chaos after seize was introduced. Just as Mael had the highest win rate a few weeks prior to 3.0.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

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Hey! Haha I noticed you had moved a bit, I usually recognize regular Mael players in other GCs. Honestly with Mael it depends who is queuing at the time. A lot of the regulars seem to be taking a break right now so its kinda hit or miss, although compared to about 3 weeks ago my win rate has increased maybe 5-10%. It also seems that quite a few of the GC hoppers switched to Flames, then got sick of the queue times and have been switching either back to Mael or to Adders for faster times.

But in general the win rate on Chaos seems quite even and probably will continue that way while eso hunting is still a thing

I think it's just the nature of having 3-way PvP. In general, all 3 GCs in most clusters of worlds tend to win about as often as one another, with a few exceptions of usually less than a 10% win count margin of error. This means that most of the time, regardless of GC, you're losing nearly 65% of the time. In the most extreme positive case I've seen in GC rankings, one won 50% of the time for a while, which still means a 50% rate of loss.

So, really, it's very likely that you're just experiencing a perception bias when it comes to always being in the "worst GC". Which would mean that you might not be wrong about losing quite often, but that you might be wrong assuming that any other GC is currently doing any better.

Alot of Mael/Flames have been swapping to adders as they have the fastest queue times, and alot of these players dont care for wins, they just want the Hand of Mercy title. Now you might be thinking wait? if they dont care about wins, why are the adders winning alot more?!

Well its simple, theres a huge premade here on odin with the adders, with alot of solid players, not only that alot of people in the maelstrom, not sure about the flames, dont know how to play their class or even basic rotation and they afk for eso's. So when its these people up against the good Flames/Maelstrom members it is pretty easy for the adders to crush over alot of people. Its as you said, people swap all the time for wins, but they dont freaking realize THEY are the issue when it comes to wins, afking and feeding more than 5 times in the same game is ganna hamper your win rate by alot.

Edit: I haven't pvp'd in a while, so I dont know if its still the same, considering your complaint I assume not much has changed :P

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Ok, I'm not mad or anything just a bit frustrated. I switch GC a lot on Chaos data-center. Ever since a few weeks before 3.0 I feel like I've always switched to the losing/worst GC on Chaos. Only exceptions were Mael before 3.0 and a switch to flames a few weeks after 3.0.

Example:
Recently I spent 2 weeks in adders. I knew they were pretty, um, not good, so nothing out of the ordinary there. I think my win rate those 2 weeks were about 20%. A few days ago I switched to mael again. And now adders win every match lmao. Maybe I'm just that bad a player...

And, no, I don't "aim" for the "best" GC, i just cycle around. If so I would have just stayed in flames after 3.0.

My impression on Mael after 3.0 is not that good. I know there are awesome players here, but it seems we turn into adders pre-3.0 on occasions.

Anyone on Chaos from Mael who feels differently?

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its more like the people who played mael got demoralized,i think you should try making a premade as it enhances the enjoyment of playing pvp when there are 7 other people who want to win just as much as you,ive been doing it for the past 3 days and weve won about 33/40 games because we have someone who gives general directions to the alliance and we just follow.

I definitely felt like how you did before i started playing with people with similar opinions,there are always good players who are willing to premade it up so go for it o/

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Originally Posted by FinaFinaFina

Well its simple, theres a huge premade here on odin with the adders, with alot of solid players, not only that alot of people in the maelstrom, not sure about the flames, dont know how to play their class or even basic rotation and they afk for eso's. So when its these people up against the good Flames/Maelstrom members it is pretty easy for the adders to crush over alot of people. Its as you said, people swap all the time for wins, but they dont freaking realize THEY are the issue when it comes to wins, afking and feeding more than 5 times in the same game is ganna hamper your win rate by alot.

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This is why I switched to Adders in the 1st place, as it got really apparent on Mael, as I would rather have the faster que times, so I can get more matches, than wait forever for 1 game to lose

People who change GC are the real problem as they rarely care about winning or play according to objectives. After all they swarm to the winning GC thinking they will be carried to their wins.

Everytime I have a match and I see flame members who I can recognise even across different servers I know we will win simply because they act according to objectives.

Adders don't necessarily win because they are good. It's just accepted that Flame considers mael a more reasonable GC that acts smart and can't be left alone to accumulate points. It's really easier to destroy adders on CHAOS compared to mael. In some of my matches we allow adders to reign at 1st place until mid fight when we change to farm kills from them while keeping a comfortable gap from mael.

That is literally how Mael thinks about flames too Yaichiro haha xD,we cant leave flames alone because we know they wont be dumb but then there is adders who just seem to do the dumbest things all the time

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Originally Posted by FinaFinaFina

Well its simple, theres a huge premade here on odin with the adders...

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Yes, as Stupiduglytaru said, I noticed. It's very noticeable. Premades are very organized, the other GCs has next to 0% chance of winning. Too bad I never encountered 'em during my time in adders (I may have had 1 or 2 fight I guess, but they are premade for a reason). I just had an encounter with 'em, and based on how organized my GC is it may take away all the fun from the match.

Of course I'm aware that casuel gameplay victories will even out to a certain degree. The reason I felt the urge to vent now is because i couldn't recognize the adders I left lol.

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Originally Posted by Yaichiro

Adders don't necessarily win because they are good. It's just accepted that Flame considers mael a more reasonable GC that acts smart and can't be left alone to accumulate points. It's really easier to destroy adders on CHAOS compared to mael. In some of my matches we allow adders to reign at 1st place until mid fight when we change to farm kills from them while keeping a comfortable gap from mael.

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"farm adders" common strat on chaos but sometimes people tunnel vision and keep killing adder while others take node and win. When u farm adder in 8vs8vs8 they even gave up and just dont attack u its kinda hilarious. lol

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Originally Posted by FinaFinaFina

Well its simple, theres a huge premade here on odin with the adders, with alot of solid players, not only that alot of people in the maelstrom, not sure about the flames, dont know how to play their class or even basic rotation and they afk for eso's. So when its these people up against the good Flames/Maelstrom members it is pretty easy for the adders to crush over alot of people. Its as you said, people swap all the time for wins, but they dont freaking realize THEY are the issue when it comes to wins, afking and feeding more than 5 times in the same game is ganna hamper your win rate by alot.

Edit: I haven't pvp'd in a while, so I dont know if its still the same, considering your complaint I assume not much has changed :P

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I dont see adder winning often "huge odin premade" I think I met them like twice? xD If adder is winning then most of the time cause one gc chase the other one without reason.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

I dont see adder winning often "huge odin premade" I think I met them like twice? xD If adder is winning then most of the time cause one gc chase the other one without reason.

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It's notable to mention they have a high winning rate in addition to fast queues. The odin pre made is real regardless of what we are saying and chances are you're going to lose if you face them. I am hoping with their win rate people will start changing to adders and thus fixing queue times.

By the way the pre made are mostly ex-flame and ex-mael veteran pvpers who changed for fast queues.

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Originally Posted by Yaichiro

It's notable to mention they have a high winning rate in addition to fast queues. The odin pre made is real regardless of what we are saying and chances are you're going to lose if you face them. I am hoping with their win rate people will start changing to adders and thus fixing queue times.

By the way the pre made are mostly ex-flame and ex-mael veteran pvpers who changed for fast queues.

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Ofc they have a high winrate but most of the time you will face adder Pugs who are really bad also I said "adder" premades are a minority. I dont see why people should switch to adder cause they will rarely get into these "good" premades. Adder dont need a good premade what adder needs is a good leader with people who are actually listen to them. Sometimes they say "adder premade in this match" and both gc focus on adder in the end it was just pugs I feel bad for them lol

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

...I dont see why people should switch to adder cause they will rarely get into these "good" premades. ...

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But will the average pug know/consider this when he/she notice an increased winrate by adders? If no, and if the given pug wants a higher winrate they will change. But I don't think there are enough of these kind of players to really make a difference in queue times.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Mael is the shittiest GC on Chaos atm. Haven't won a single match in over 2 days. By posting this I'm sure it'll change.
EDIT2: LMAO it worked xD. Finally a win!

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

But will the average pug know/consider this when he/she notice an increased winrate by adders? If no, and if the given pug wants a higher winrate they will change. But I don't think there are enough of these kind of players to really make a difference in queue times.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Mael is the shittiest GC on Chaos atm. Haven't won a single match in over 2 days. By posting this I'm sure it'll change.
EDIT2: LMAO it worked xD. Finally a win!

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xD I dont notice a real difference between mael and adder since I won every match today in flames. Just look at chaos winrate there is almost no adder except the odin premade so probably mael isnt that bad xD

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

xD I dont notice a real difference between mael and adder since I won every match today in flames. Just look at chaos winrate there is almost no adder except the odin premade so probably mael isnt that bad xD

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Oh it's bad... Or maybe I'm extremely unlucky. Or perhaps I'm that bad I drag the rest of the GC with me.

Finding premade isn't easy. I did it once but they no longer play.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Oh it's bad... Or maybe I'm extremely unlucky. Or perhaps I'm that bad I drag the rest of the GC with me.

Finding premade isn't easy. I did it once but they no longer play.

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There are good days and bad days last week I won every match on 2 days in a row then I lost most of the time on the weekend (mostly against mael). x.x

After 3.0, with mael mostly bad days.
Adders almost only bad days, if not only.
With flames ca 50-50.

Speaking only for myself of course.

Last 2 weeks i didnt pvp at all coz Qs were killing me, i was thinking about switching to adders cause of the Qs, but im not sure anymore, I.F. forever:<. Lets see if this week i can actually start pvping again, please Qs u_u.

adders are bad during day, beasts during midnight - early mornings.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Finding premade isn't easy. I did it once but they no longer play.

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we make premade but we only got 1 pop for waiting 2-3-4 hrs so we just stop doing premade

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Originally Posted by Kapiz

adders are bad during day, beasts during midnight - early mornings.

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Not really except you get Odin premade in 8vs8vs8 and even then they lose sometimes against pugs.

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Originally Posted by Cero0

Last 2 weeks i didnt pvp at all coz Qs were killing me, i was thinking about switching to adders cause of the Qs, but im not sure anymore, I.F. forever:<. Lets see if this week i can actually start pvping again, please Qs u_u.

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The queues are okay but if u get 6-8 people in your party they are less than 5/10min.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Not really except you get Odin premade in 8vs8vs8 and even then they lose sometimes against pugs.

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YMMV.
the ones I've been with aren't even premades, just the usual pug people

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Originally Posted by Kapiz

adders are bad during day, beasts during midnight - early mornings.

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hmmm... Unless I were extremely unlucky, I did not find this true during my latest adders session. To be fair though, iirc, most of my wins occurred during late evenings/nights.

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Originally Posted by Srab

we make premade but we only got 1 pop for waiting 2-3-4 hrs so we just stop doing premade

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Yes, this was an issue. At least pre-3.0 it was like this for us. I dunno how queue times for premades are now. Being premade on chaos+adders in this regards actually makes a lot of sense. As adders have amazing queue times compared to flames and mael on chaos.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Not really except you get Odin premade in 8vs8vs8 and even then they lose sometimes against pugs.

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The odin pre made don't run as often as you think. I have changed to adders couple days ago and I can tell you adders aren't as bad as you think. In all my games we are attacked by both GC simultaneously several times which makes us lose by being overpowered by the two GCs. That's why it doesn't happen in early mornings since you can defend well even with both GCs attacking you since matches are 8vs8vs8 during morning.

I came to a conclusion that Adders are the favourite target of both flame and mael.

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Originally Posted by Yaichiro

...In all my games we are attacked by both GC simultaneously several times which makes us lose by being overpowered by the two GCs...

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Yes, this is true. I remember it well. No place to hide. Not ALL the time though. But as I'm in mael now I don't find this to be true. Even when we have the perfect opportunity to, we don't do it. I occasionally say in chat "flank flames now", or "flank bladders now", but most of the time we let a perfect opportunity pass us by.

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Originally Posted by Yaichiro

I came to a conclusion that Adders are the favourite target of both flame and mael.

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I know they do like 20 games in a week. Yeah u can defend pretty well against 2 GCs but u get rekt by premades http://puu.sh/kdVEH.jpg I wouldnt recommend 8vs8vs8 for Pugs its just slaughter. Yes adder is kinda bad if we notice u are weak we will just "farm" adder in 72/24. Also in 72 we survive attacked from both GCs often cause we save our lb for things like this getting attacked from both isnt something what will make u lose if u know how to avoid it. Agree adder is our favourite target alot of people hate them so they are happy when we have to push u.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

http://puu.sh/kdVEH.jpg

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That looks like premde alright. Kinda disappointing you had deaths lol. My premades have been nothing like this. T_T

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

That looks like premde alright. Kinda disappointing you had deaths lol. My premades have been nothing like this. T_T

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Well our whm dps (almost got battle high lol)+ adder had 3 healer so when both attacked us deaths happened but thats not what I wanted to say I just dont like the idea that premades can play against Pugs in 8vs8vs8- I mean you dont really want to wait 40-60min for a match just to get this. I never soloqueue again at morning cause 8vs8vs8 is always bad (several matches with 0 points)

I am Adders since the begining in chaos, i can tell you,
Adders was going good when we was doing secure, bad when the slaughter come out, then better... The same when this new pvp come out. even worst , with the new pvp mode.
In all new pvp release we get a lot of new players trying the new mode.
We was realy bad two month ago. (hopefully we have good groups atm)
But yeah we got often sandwiched by the two GCs, but i don't think it's because Mael And flamme think we are easy to take or bad. We are certainly hated from immortal and mael and hate is old, Adders is hated since Secure Pvp^^

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

I am Adders since the begining in chaos, i can tell you,
Adders was going good when we was doing secure, bad when the slaughter come out, then better... The same when this new pvp come out. even worst , with the new pvp mode.
In all new pvp release we get a lot of new players trying the new mode.
We was realy bad two month ago. (hopefully we have good groups atm)
But yeah we got often sandwiched by the two GCs, but i don't think it's because Mael And flamme think we are easy to take or bad. We are certainly hated from immortal and mael and hate is old, Adders is hated since Secure Pvp^^

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I'm in flames and I can say for sure we take you not as serious as mael lol. I often see adder attacking us without reason which ends up in 0 points for adder and feeding the other GCs. If we see we can farm some points on ur spawn we wont go back instantly since kills are more worth than nodes x)

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

I am Adders since the begining in chaos, i can tell you,
Adders was going good when we was doing secure, bad when the slaughter come out, then better... The same when this new pvp come out. even worst , with the new pvp mode.
In all new pvp release we get a lot of new players trying the new mode.
We was realy bad two month ago. (hopefully we have good groups atm)
But yeah we got often sandwiched by the two GCs, but i don't think it's because Mael And flamme think we are easy to take or bad^^

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adders still have really good players i notice that alot but the problem they have so many new ppl i was playing with them in lv50 FL its really normal when you saw guy with lv50 job gears keep getting 1 shoted
also they dont have a good leaders and they also dont playing op classes
remmeber how many blm's with flames in (slaugther) mode? and how many smn's in this new mode?
tbh the healers in adders is the best healers in choas

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

Adders was going good when we was doing secure

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Ah the times... Both adders and mael used to dominate in secure while imm was just there so you could farm some kills, tho mael usually won but adders gave them run for the money and was only real threat for them most of time.

TiaHariberux3 : It happen we have Poor Alliance doing thing without reason, say we have too much new players is realy a fact, i saw one game like this yesterday.

Srab : you are right, actualy the main Job of Gridania is dragoon, Bard, Whm, so it's logic to have more war/smn/sch from maelstrom^^ and more Blm from immortal.
But still some pvp players in adder choose smn because smn is op but maybe not enough.
I play War but the next job i up will certainly be Smn/sch for pvp^^.

Synestra : yeah i miss the adders from secure a lot

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

TiaHariberux3 : It happen we have Poor Alliance doing thing without reason, say we have too much new players is realy a fact, i saw one game like this yesterday.

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Yup and alot of new player/casual changed to adder cause of queue (some good pvper too)BUT smn isn't "that" op since u have high burst only each minute and nothing like manawall etc.. Most of the time you are just squishy as hell and easy to focused down still a bit op tho.