Please reduce the Esotheric reward for the team that finished 2nd and 3rd

I understand that the rewards are there to convince people to do PvP but some of these players aren't even try to win the match. It's ok to do content they don't like but at least they should try their best.

10 tomes for 2nd place and 5 tomes for the 3rd should be fine. the Eso reward for PvP roulette should be removed as well.

I don't care if I have to wait a little longer to get into Frontline matches. I'd rather wait to play with people who truly want to do the content with passion, and not those tome farmers who shamelessly admitted that they're in the match for tomes, and laugh in the chatbox when their teammates taking PvP seriously and try to win the match. these people are so selfish and are a disrespect to the others who enjoy doing PvP.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I don't care if I have to wait a little longer to get into Frontline matches.

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Yeah I sort of do.

It's funny how before this happened, quite a lot of people were crying out that they need to add tomes to incentivise people to come into PvP to revitalise the queues and bring in more people. And now, the situation has completely flipped. Not saying you were crying out for tomes to be added, just saying.

However with that said, I am still in the camp that objects the newest PvE currency being added into PvP. At this current moment there's still not much to bring in new people to do PvP just for the sake of PvP or even the rewards which are non-existant if you aren't a glamour whore (like me *cries*), so I guess it's somewhat justifiable. But come 3.2 and we'll (hopefully) get a good PvP system with the Wolve's Den renovation, I'd like there to be no PvE currency to be found.

Vary the eso rewards for winning but keep the daily eso boost.

Just make it so losing your daily is less efficient than running an eso dungeon.

Coming in 2nd could be the break even point.
And coming in first would actually end up rewarding more than a full dungeon run.
Each calculated WITH the daily pvp roulette reward but WITHOUT the daily expert roulette reward.

That way people will at least have an incentive to TRY winning because otherwise running the daily would end up being a waste.

I'd like to see all rewards (eso, pvp exp and wolf marks) vary on contribution. Basically a sum of your EHPS, DPS and maybe nodes capped. EHPS not HPS. >.<

I know it's never going to happen because people would QQ over certain jobs being more powerful than others though. It'd just be nice to discourage leechers AND bots. Today I saw a bot in PvP. He had a AFK chair by his name the entire match and all he did was run in circles.

I don't think they need to do anything, not to PvP anyway.

The issue here is that currently the PvE content sucks, there is very little variety so people turn to Seize to easily cap tomestones. People are (rightly) sick of only really having Fractal/Neverreap and Alexander to do. Tomestone reward for Frontlines was never really an issue in the past, the only difference is that during 2.x we had far more PvE content to cap tomestones on. Assuming the Sky-Islands reward tomestones, I think that and the Void Ark should take a lot of the leeches out of PvP come 3.1.

Ugh I understand what you mean OP. This people only goes to Frontline only for eso not to win their GC. Reducing eso is kinda good idea for 2nd and 3rd.

Just remove eso for 2nd and 3th completely so eso farmer wont even try to pvp. I think we should get PvE rewards only from PvE content I mean do I get marks/pvp exp from dungeons? No, why should it be the other way around no point in reducing the queue times if the team sucks.

1st - 20
2nd - 10
3rd - 0

How about No.

Nothing quite like finishing a Seal Rock with 150 points and hearing "at least I got my 40 eso" My personal favorite was "the less we try the faster the eso grind goes"

I agree, more or less, but that just might end up making it so that even more people will flock to the winning GC

At most, I'd rather they reduce the Eso reward to just 5~10

Honestly, compared to FL Secure and especially Slaughter, Seal Rock has pretty positive reviews and it brought and kept new PvPer simply because it was fun. Long long queue times are due to people in popular GCs

After a few match when Seal Rock 1st came out the average time it took for a team to get 800pts was roughly 10m and I instantly knew that there'll be Eso farmers.

Replace eso with a rare triple triad card drop that you only have a chance of getting if you come first.

I think it's fine as is, but I would also be ok if they adjusted it very slightly:

1st: 25
2nd: 20
3rd: 15

This way the overall amount of esoterics is the same and there is an incentive to try, but it still gives a decent amount if your GC is terrible and you lose every time. Offering esoterics was definitely a good move on SE's part, a lot of people I know only gave PvP a chance due to the PVE rewards and that's what got them hooked. The only reason I got into PvP in the first place was when they introduced the wolves den challenge log and I decided to try it out to clear the log. Offering these rewards is a way to grow the PvP player base and is necessary for maintaining a healthy PvP community.

If you remove esoterics or give none for 3rd place, there will be a noticeable increase in queue times, fewer people will try out PvP, and there will be even more of an incentive to swap to the "dominant" GC.

Yes, we need more incentive for everyone to stack in the winning GC.

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Originally Posted by TriksteR

1st - 20
2nd - 10
3rd - 0

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This with a consecutive bonus increase, like +5 Eso for each consecutive win up to 20 bonus Eso. This would provide an incentive to win so this...

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Originally Posted by Farrell

Nothing quite like finishing a Seal Rock with 150 points and hearing "at least I got my 40 eso" My personal favorite was "the less we try the faster the eso grind goes"

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happens less often.

If those farmers want to jump to the winning GC... good! let them go. they'll make that GC get weaker.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

If those farmers want to jump to the winning GC... good! let them go. they'll make that GC get weaker.

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Not to be mean but your ques are almost nothing now. It is all great for you to claim oh I can take some longer ques. When the other Grand Companies are double yours and double that one again.

Flames have also gotten a lot of adder win chasers last month so you should by default be better. Nothing like a bunch of whiny people when check have like 10 adder wins and 5 flames wins.

I have no problem with the "Eso farmers"

but seriously... it is honestly very demoralizing for some of these people to even HARASS us in alliance chat when we're actually trying to strategize and go for the win.They tell us, "theres no point in even trying, thanks for eso"

I know everyone is probably gonna be salty due to their eso farm being gone, but this is PVP, you need to draw the line somewhere SE. This is a BLIGHT on the PVP community.

Originally this thread made me very mad. The team with the best que gets the eso farmers and the team with the worst ques get the win chasers. Neither are very helpful to the respective teams, generally.

Until they remove Grand Companies and allow us to que alliances, the rewards need to be even. Not all of us can manipulate the que and get to play with 23 other people we want. No one should be overtly punished for the randoms they get stuck with. Infact I had a night with multiple seconds and was getting more marks then I would have if i was getting first.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Just remove eso for 2nd and 3th completely so eso farmer wont even try to pvp. I think we should get PvE rewards only from PvE content I mean do I get marks/pvp exp from dungeons? No, why should it be the other way around no point in reducing the queue times if the team sucks.

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pve won't die in week without pvp rewards in it though. You can bet if this was a pvp heavy game, they may incentivize pve with pvp rewards.

Whether a team sucks or not because of pve rewards means little if it makes it seem like a part of the game is alive to square it seems.

People do the same thing just for the wolf marks for pvp armor, as your first roulette try gets you 1000 wolf marks minimum for third place.

So one can then make the argument that players are just going for the wolf mark bonus to get glamour gear. Where's all the people coming out of the woodwork complaining to have the wolf mark bonus removed then?

Fact is, esoterics for pvp should be here to stay. It's a thousand times better alternative than farming Neverreap a billion times for the eso cap.
Besides, I've always heard of these mystical "only playing pvp for the rewards dont care about performing" players since 2.0, yet I have never seen such a person.... but of course, players will make them out to be as rampant as the RMTs...

Esot needs to stay imo, all it will create is yet more gc bangwagonness. I'm one of those you know that actually enjoys pvp, I also occasionally enjoy some pve action. Having esot in pvp means I can safely cap out without having to set foot into lolroulette.

Whilst I agree pvp should reward purely pvp related items, currency etc. What realistically do we have to spend it on? A paletted unoriginal pvp set which has little use currently? I'm close to having every single piece of i180 gear just from reranking 1-50 with adders.

I joined adders due to flames q time, it was frustrating sitting there waiting and waiting again, it was no problem 2.x days as I worked on crafting. I filled my time making millions of Gil. But with the crap 3.0 has done to crafter's I really can't be bothered.

Would the team's even be more balanced with the esot gone? Who knows, anyway until we actually getsome useful pvp items anything other than removing gc restriction is a waste of time.

This was brought up several times in the "casual PvP problem" thread I posted a while back. I think what we eventually decided on was that the reward should be scaled with 1st/2nd/3rd place, but daily roulette should keep its bonus. The tipping point was that it is infuriating to have the actual pvp'ers trying to pull the team together to win, but have the casuals constantly trying to convince everyone to not care, just so they could get their bonus. This was also around the time we were starting to see Eso farm bots show up in PvP. They would just mount up, and ride in a straight line until something killed them or they got stuck against a wall. Not cool.

Personally, I'd like to see Eso bonus completely removed from PvP in favour of purely PvP related rewards. That being said, for this to happen they'd have to overhaul the wolf marks system. For one, there should be more, functional gear sets, especially one that's usable at rank~40-45 and 50 (even if it's just for glamour). Secondly, there should be wolf marks shop at Wolve's den pier for PvP specific rewards. I'm thinking, PvP mounts, minions, housing decorations/items/ etc. Give us more things to spend our Wolves Marks on besides just gear that is pretty much only for appearances.

Lastly, I don't think GC swapping as a result of Eso's being redone would be as big a problem as some people seem to think it is. For one, people already swap GC's to chase wins as it is. People talk as if this would somehow be more incentive. I call BS. GC swappers don't need more incentive. They do it anyway, and it's almost always on a snap judgment that is biased from personal win/loss records. Let em' swap around all they want. It won't make a difference that isn't already clearly happening. The best solution to all of this will come naturally if they remove GC restrictions. At that point they can switch Eso's around, or just blatantly remove them, and it won't make any difference to ques at all. GC swappers will have to face the cold hard truth about their losses, and look in a mirror instead of point fingers at their GC.

I think rather then reduce rewards for 2/3rd they should just buff 1st and 2nd slightly, or at least 1st.

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Originally Posted by Voldemort

People do the same thing just for the wolf marks for pvp armor, as your first roulette try gets you 1000 wolf marks minimum for third place.

So one can then make the argument that players are just going for the wolf mark bonus to get glamour gear. Where's all the people coming out of the woodwork complaining to have the wolf mark bonus removed then?

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This is utter nonsense on so many levels.

1. PvP gear is Rank locked, so you can farm for wolf marks until you're blue in the face, but it won't make a difference. You won't be able to equip or glamour that fancy rank 50 gear until you earn the right to it. No PvP complains about wolf mark bonuses because their currently useless. You will earn the marks you need to buy all your rank 50 gear 3 or 4 times over without bonuses before you reach the rank to equip/glamour them. So, why would anyone care if wolf mark bonuses are removed or not? Further, if you're farming wolf marks for rank 50 glamours (which means you had to get to rank 50) that means you had to actively play PvP to get the rank. Which means you're, by default, not just a farmer or casual player, you're a PvP'er who has a vested interest in winning for exp.

2. Wolf marks are a PvP bonus in a PvP game mode. How does that even compare to getting PvE rewards? You don't see PvP'ers getting Wolf Marks from ex roulette, do you? No. So why is it the other way around? I hear a lot of PvE'ers complain, "oh woe is me, I have seven different dungeons to run to get my Eso's... that's so not enough. How could they ever think of removing bonuses from PvP??" What a joke. PvP'ers get one game mode (that has active ques) and hardly any rewards (that they can actually use) for playing it. I don't have any sympathy for PvE'ers who seem to think they're hard done by.

No.

Bad Idea honestly. We need more rewards for other zones.

Separating PvP and PvE is stupid and has always been stupid. It ends up making it a Mini-game which is unsupported. The developers see that and put no resources into it and it becomes a grind un-fun minigame.

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Originally Posted by Rollan

I have no problem with the "Eso farmers"

but seriously... it is honestly very demoralizing for some of these people to even HARASS us in alliance chat when we're actually trying to strategize and go for the win.They tell us, "theres no point in even trying, thanks for eso"

I know everyone is probably gonna be salty due to their eso farm being gone, but this is PVP, you need to draw the line somewhere SE. This is a BLIGHT on the PVP community.

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When your team is half the points and the game's almost over it is better to just take the loss. You lost.

Maybe if they removed the ridiculous rank requirements so I can actually wear my PvP gear I have sitting in my inventory I would be able to be a bit better.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

When your team is half the points and the game's almost over it is better to just take the loss. You lost.

Maybe if they removed the ridiculous rank requirements so I can actually wear my PvP gear I have sitting in my inventory I would be able to be a bit better.

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PvP gear doesn't help. Frontlines already syncs your ilvl and PvP gear doesn't give any special stats that would have effects.

And if people didn't give up when they're behind 300 points or an enemy team was already at 750/800, you'd still be able to fight back from a win. I've won games where we came from a 500 point deficit (we were at 0 points for the first 3 node sets) until people people actually started listening to calls and rallied together.

It's either this or make second place worth a shit toward achievements or more meaningful rewards. +50-100 exp/currency out of the 4k you need to level isn not much of a compensation. It's first place or bust when it comes to getting achievements, the difference between 3rd and 2nd quantive rewards are negibile at best, and the people who don't care for PvP still get the same amount of PvE rewards regardless of the outcome.

Rewarding someone to reach a goal always yields better results than punishing for missing it- proven fact .

If anything, they should incentivize efforts made to win .

The way this should work should be tiered , say :
0-200 resources: 15 eso
2-500 resources 20 eso
500+ resources: 25 eso
1st place: 30 eso

3rd place cannot get more than 20 esoterics.



I believe the above structure will reward players for reaching goals over and above the current system that has been accepted and is in place.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

No.
When your team is half the points and the game's almost over it is better to just take the loss. You lost.

Maybe if they removed the ridiculous rank requirements so I can actually wear my PvP gear I have sitting in my inventory I would be able to be a bit better.

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One, unless your team is doing their best to imitate ducks at a shooting range, there's never a time you can't turn a match around if your teammates get their heads out of their butts. Real PvP'ers know this, and never accept a loss just because they're behind by half. I've seen matches get turned around in the last 10pts, because the two losing GC's buckled down and murdered the living hell out of the winning GC. What loses matches is an attitude that decides you lost before the match is even over.

Two, your gear comment is silly. Removing Rank restrictions on PvP gear is absurd. In PvE, that would be the equivalent of giving everyone their I lvl 200 gear for free so they can all run Alexander savage, because, heck, why not? They're gonna be able to afford it eventually anyway, right? Forget having to earn things. Forget rewarding players who put in the effort. Let's just all hold hands and think happy happy thoughts while we all look pretty in gear we got as a pity hand out... excuse me while I go throw up and find something new to play.

If they decide to increase PvP exp bonuses, or scale it in some way that makes sense so the grind isn't as horrific, I'd be fine with that, but this all's fair crap has no place in a competitive game mode.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

No.

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You know we helped adders over come a 500 point deficit today. Maelstrom was 50 points from winning we had to keep killing them and couldn't disengage and adders left us alone and held 3 nodes or 2 As at the end. They were smart enough to know we had better dps then they had and left us alone and we had no other choice to play for first that way. Think final score was adders 800 flames 775 and maelstrom just over 700. But to many teams think about padding their kill total and not letting the match play out in a better way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

No.

When your team is half the points and the game's almost over it is better to just take the loss. You lost.

Maybe if they removed the ridiculous rank requirements so I can actually wear my PvP gear I have sitting in my inventory I would be able to be a bit better.

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To clarify: They say this before the match has even started

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Originally Posted by Rollan

To clarify: They say this before the match has even started

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So? Maybe it was a joke?

As suggested earlier in the thread, I don't think reducing the reward for players that get 2nd or 3rd is the right answer, but rather the reward should be based on the team's score. There's a difference between a team that winds up going neck and neck with the other GCs before losing at the last second, and a team where nobody pulls their weight. Both got third, but one of them still put forth an effort and doesn't deserve to walk away with precisely dick for their time invested.

This has the added benefit of helping convert eso farmers into actual PVPers. I'll admit, I likely wouldn't play PVP if not for the tomestone rewards, but I try my hardest to score a win because that's more fun for me than sitting around in a base. Tying the rewards to the points earned in the match would mean its in every player's best interest to do their part and proceed.

Another consideration is that not everyone springs fully formed from the womb as a battleclad paragon of war and conquest. Some of us have to actually, ya know, practice. Knowing you'll earn jack if you don't come in first is demoralizing and causes players who might otherwise have an interest in PVP to not bother. After all, why waste your time spending an hour in queue for nothing?

The eso shout outs are just to troll. If they cry you get +10pts. If they go to the forums or blogs to cry, you get a break from elitist cry hards and everyone wins.

Best gc que times during prime time are already over an hour on my server. If they removed gc restrictions and made it winner take all I'd be more inclined to go with it but to just stack everyone in the dominate gc is very dumb solution.

You wouldn't wait a little longer for queues, you'd wait a LOT longer. You're seeing the people who absolutely do not participate in PvP, but go in for the tomes and assuming that that's the entire crowd that the tome reward draws. It isn't. I take PvP fairly seriously. I never used to and wouldn't have much interest in it without the tome reward, but having played a decent amount of it because of the rewards I rather like it and find myself getting into it and trying to direct people to not be idiots throughout the match.

I don't have a ton of play time per week (usually) and I like to cap tomes. I do like PvP, but if it doesn't contribute to capping tomes I'm far less likely to do it. It's unfortunate that people will willfully sabotage their team, but there is a kick feature for those few.

So what we're asking for from SE is a gun so we can shoot ourselves in the foot? Is that what's going on in here? Reducing or removing the Eso reward based on where your team places is a bad idea on multiple levels. No matter what, you're still going to wind up with team mates who are going to sandbag it. What this thread is requesting is only going to make the overall PvP situation worse for no good reason.

So the people that actually care but end up with bad groups suffer?

What about introducing the option to queue for ranked FL? Have a board at the pier that shows top players, sorted by wins, dmg, top healers or whatever. That way people serious about PvP can queue and get matched with others taking it serious, and the nub eso farmers can just queue for normal. Just thinking out loud ^^