Can we have separate tomestone for tank , healer and dps?

i find this game is very conflict when it encourage people to play more class but you cant do savage with only able to gear 1 class. i wanna play dps n tank in dungeon but if i get all my tank gear then my dps cannot make it..

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Originally Posted by jonathan

i find this game is very conflict when it encourage people to play more class but you cant do savage with only able to gear 1 class. i wanna play dps n tank in dungeon but if i get all my tank gear then my dps cannot make it..

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You do not need savage or eso gear to do dungeons in the first place. The only use for 200+ gear is savage alex.

I think I'd rather see them go ahead and continue the AF/Job specific aspect of tomestone gear, expand that onto accessories, and give us a cap per Job... Though given how utterly uninspired stats are in this game, the only justification they have for AF is glamours and I doubt they could churn out new AF designs fast enough...

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

The only use for 200+ gear is savage alex.

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Well that simply isn't true... Unless they start capping all other content at i180 or something, i200 in dungeons, treasure maps, uncapped FATEs, etc. etc. is helpful. Alexander (Savage) is the only place that "requires" i200, but the majority of the game lets you benefit from having a higher item level, in which case i200 is plenty useful for it...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I think I'd rather see them go ahead and continue the AF/Job specific aspect of tomestone gear, expand that onto accessories, and give us a cap per Job... Though given how utterly uninspired stats are in this game, the only justification they have for AF is glamours and I doubt they could churn out new AF designs fast enough...



Well that simply isn't true... Unless they start capping all other content at i180 or something, i200 in dungeons, treasure maps, uncapped FATEs, etc. etc. is helpful. Alexander (Savage) is the only place that "requires" i200, but the majority of the game lets you benefit from having a higher item level, in which case i200 is plenty useful for it...

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Remilia_Nightfall is right Savage is the only place you need i200 gear, everything else is doable in i170-180, i190 is over kill as it is let alone 200/210.

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

Remilia_Nightfall is right Savage is the only place you need i200 gear, everything else is doable in i170-180, i190 is over kill as it is let alone 200/210.

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And I'm not saying you need i200 for anything other than Savage... I'm simply pointing out the difference between something being "required" and something being "useful". Esoterics gear is useful in virtually all Lv60 content, just because you can do Neverreap in i160 doesn't mean that i200 isn't helpful... Most people don't even bother with raiding and still go after Esoterics because of the sense of progression the gear provides, compared to the utter lack of progression provided by the full i180 that isn't particularly hard to be in by now... Right now this game basically has no endgame content for the majority of players, and that easily reached 450/week cap is the only thing providing any sense of progression. That is both a weak sense of progression to begin with, and limits you to a single Job in a game which has "Play everything on a single character" as one of its main selling points...

Opening up that cap to multiple roles/Jobs, while still providing a cap on how quickly players can gear (which is the entire purpose of the cap) literally does nothing except give people more "content"... It doesn't impact balance in the slightest, since you can only take a single role/Job into an event. All it does is give people who're bored out of their skulls with the game something more to do each week while we wait for 3.1. Having the i200 weapon for Ninja and Dark Knight, for example, does absolutely nothing. It does not make my Ninja any stronger in Alexander, nor does it make my Dark Knight any stronger. They'd both be as strong as they'd currently be if I put Esoterics into them, I'd just have two options instead of one. Simply put, I don't need a Deathbringer for Neverreap or other non-Savage content, but that doesn't mean I don't want one and would benefit from having one. If, after three weeks, I could obtain a Yukimitsu and Deathbringer, neither my Ninja or Dark Knight is any stronger for it. Unless there is something wrong with people being able to take multiple Jobs into Savage (and I don't think there is), I don't really see any issue with a suggestion like this. Being able to progress multiple Jobs should be a thing in a game with a Job system like this...

The only real issue with this is accessories, since they're shared across multiple Jobs; I could get DEX accessories on Bard and my Ninja would benefit from that. That's the only issue though.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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This is a separate issue tho. The OP expressed the fact that "he cannot do dungeons because he cant gear his tank and dps", which is simply false. My reply was to that and it still hold true. If we want to debate about non-hardcore endgame content, that's another can of worms entirely.

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Originally Posted by jonathan

i find this game is very conflict when it encourage people to play more class but you cant do savage with only able to gear 1 class. i wanna play dps n tank in dungeon but if i get all my tank gear then my dps cannot make it..

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Law is enough till you finished doing 1 in full eso, don't worry homie.

I wish. As it is, you can't really improve your alt very much. Mine is about to have full Alex normal gear. Then there's nothing to do but wait until my main gets done with Eso items first, and hope to win greed drops in savage that the casters don't want/need (which could take a while).

Back in WotLK and MoP, I'd raid heroics with my alts (though they wouldn't get as far as my main, ofc). Here, I'll be twiddling my thumbs because I can't atempt savage on an alt class in a second group due to lockouts and what not.

/shrug

This has been requested in many threads recently. I've signed them all. It would be nice to have either job, or role specific tomes. That way we can be much more flexible in hard content such as savage. Sense we have a two step process to gear up now with the job specific gear. Ilvl200 then 210. I think it wouldn't break the game too much to let us have tomes per role at the very least. When we had the last job specific gear, iirc the gear acquisition was faster. There was no upgrade, it was straight to ilvl90. And Priya, by the time your done gearing out your main with Eso, the 24-man raid will be out with ilvl 200 gear. So we most likely will be gearing our 2nd job with a combo of eso and 24-man gear. Although if they decide to give us the upgrade items at the cost of eso tomes, similar to how they put them into the law tomes, then we might be using the 24-man gear exclusively for awhile. That of course depending on your success with savage, and/or your lotting luck. And as far as the issue with this gear being required for dungeons. I'll agree its not required. But time is precious to everyone. And obviously better gear means, swifter completion of your roulettes, and more time to spend doing other things in the game. Also it would help people be less bored. Those of the peeps that just do dungeon content that is. Also if they do have separate tomes, they will also likely need to consider role specific duty bonus's. Otherwise it is going to be a horrid grind for that second job. Just like it was when our poetic cap was doubled for awhile there. Most people I know never reached the cap because the roulette bonus ran out a bit too soon, and wasn't buffed in the slightest. And it was just too much of a grind for them to get those tomes without any kind of a buff.

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Originally Posted by Priya

Back in WotLK and MoP, I'd raid heroics with my alts (though they wouldn't get as far as my main, ofc). Here, I'll be twiddling my thumbs because I can't atempt savage on an alt class in a second group due to lockouts and what not.

/shrug

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Do what you did in WoW and roll another character.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

You do not need savage or eso gear to do dungeons in the first place. The only use for 200+ gear is savage alex.

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This argument again. I'm not going to disagree or agree with the OP, but either way, this is a bad argument. A large part of RPGs is about progression and getting stronger. This is true regardless of hard core or raider status.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This argument again. I'm not going to disagree or agree with the OP, but either way, this is a bad argument. A large part of RPGs is about progression and getting stronger. This is true regardless of hard core or raider status.

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There is a difference between saying, "I want to gear my tank in Esos so that I can tank things occasionally and feel like a strong player while doing so" and "I NEED to gear my tank in Esos in order to even be able to enter or complete this content" (what OP said).

You're confusing "need" with "want". Remilia isn't wrong; you don't "need" raid gear to do anything except AS3 and 4, really. Nobody is saying there's anything wrong with players WANTING to gear multiple jobs, just letting the OP know that baseline 170 gear is more than adequate so no need to feel like he can't tank stuff if he wants to.

EDIT: got the jobs backwards; he's a tank main that wants to DPS on the side rather than vice-versa, but my point still stands.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This argument again. I'm not going to disagree or agree with the OP, but either way, this is a bad argument. A large part of RPGs is about progression and getting stronger. This is true regardless of hard core or raider status.

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Yeah and you can do that with your main, alts aren't important and never will be. If you care so much about having more than one geared class, roll another character.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Yeah and you can do that with your main, alts aren't important and never will be. If you care so much about having more than one geared class, roll another character.

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You realize it's bad game design, when this is the only answer people can come up with, right? After all, why design a game which actively encourages you to level multiple classes and then with the same hand punishes you for doing so.

Anyway, while I don't think separate tomestones are the answer, I do agree that the cap is pretty annoying. At the very least the cap should be increased to a more worthwhile sum. Even a round 500 tomes would make gearing up less tedious for many players.

Couldn't agree more Lemuria. The armory system for DoM/DoW is majorly flawed.

If you split it up this way, people would just complain that there's only 3 tanks and 3 healers but there's 7 DPS.

The solution already exists in that you level up alts on another character.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You realize it's bad game design, when this is the only answer people can come up with, right? After all, why design a game which actively encourages you to level multiple classes and then with the same hand punishes you for doing so.

Anyway, while I don't think separate tomestones are the answer, I do agree that the cap is pretty annoying. At the very least the cap should be increased to a more worthwhile sum. Even a round 500 tomes would make gearing up less tedious for many players.

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Not really. I think it's great that it forces people to specialize in one thing for awhile, you're not being punished at all, how is being able to do 99% of the game as something else punishing? So you can't do savage as something different every week, you shouldn't to begin with as it would only hamper your group with you having to learn a new role.

Like complaining about this is really silly to me, because this is the only game that even does the whole 'do every class on one character' bit, so it's extra to begin with. In any other game you would have to roll a new character anyway. So you can't do 1% of the game as everything for a month or so, I don't see an issue, and it would be a thousand times better for them to focus resources somewhere else than to have them work on something to let you do savage as every class.

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Couldn't agree more Lemuria. The armory system for DoM/DoW is majorly flawed.

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This game has many flaws. The armory system is not one of them.

Unless you count not having enough space for all my glamour items, of course.

On one hand, yes, I too would like a better way to gear up other jobs. On the other hand, gating is a sort of necessary evil to keep people from burning out too fast. People already constantly complain about not having anything to do. Gearing up most if not every job you use in a relatively shorter amount of time would only make that problem worse. On top of that, I'm a big believer in slippery slopes. Whose to say that if they added this that in 6 months, people won't then be asking for separate tomestones for every job?

I think there are some good points on both sides, but it's a more complicated issue than most would like to believe. I would assume the least consequential course of action would be a slight increase in the weekly and total caps, but I wouldn't know what would constitute as too little and/or too much.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

After all, why design a game which actively encourages you to level multiple classes and then with the same hand punishes you for doing so.

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The game never actually encourages you to level multiple jobs to cap. In fact, you are never rewarded for doing so, only punished. The only way to properly gear/raid as 2 or more jobs in this game is to level an alt. You can gear up a second job eventually, but only after you've geared up your main job (unless you get really lucky and no one else plays your secondary job in your static).

For dungeons, though, Law and Alex NM gear is fine. If you step beyond that, that's when you'll start having issues.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You realize it's bad game design, when this is the only answer people can come up with, right? After all, why design a game which actively encourages you to level multiple classes and then with the same hand punishes you for doing so.

Anyway, while I don't think separate tomestones are the answer, I do agree that the cap is pretty annoying. At the very least the cap should be increased to a more worthwhile sum. Even a round 500 tomes would make gearing up less tedious for many players.

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Just because it's the "only answer" does not make it a flaw.

You can gear up other classes anyway. It's called Allagan Tomestones of Law. The items were priced the way they were so that players won't get more than 1 piece of gear per week depending on their purchases. If you were that eager to gear up your classes, get drops from Savage. There is a line between gearing your main class and gearing your alternative classes.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

The game never actually encourages you to level multiple jobs to cap. In fact, you are never rewarded for doing so, only punished. The only way to properly gear/raid as 2 or more jobs in this game is to level an alt. You can gear up a second job eventually, but only after you've geared up your main job (unless you get really lucky and no one else plays your secondary job in your static).

For dungeons, though, Law and Alex NM gear is fine. If you step beyond that, that's when you'll start having issues.

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People are using the term "punished" too loosely. Punished would be them having to pay currency to raid as a different job from their main. And even then, with locks outs and such, most groups won't ever branch out to get one individual that is gearing two different roles (nevermind the fact that first floors of savage doesn't require you to be in eso gear to begin with)

I think the people more up in arms about a lot of this are those that experienced FFXI, and how it dealt with gearing alt classes. FFXI let you play and gear classes similarly to FFXIV, but without the hitch of weekly lockouts and forcing you into a single role. On top of that the less noticed penalty (inventory space problems) was also mitigated with FFXIs version of the armiore which exchanged gear sets for moogle slips allowing you to store mass amounts of gear for minimal amounts of space, both of these things were in FFXIVs predecessor of over 12 years, yet they regressed to their current state with the release of SEs new flagship game FFXIV. So in FFXI the only limitations you had to gearing your classes was you and the time you could devote to the game/get people together to work towards the goal, I think people are just confused why a system that was already in place and well established in previous FF franchises was brought back in a state that is a bit more convoluted and doesn't offer the same freedom. Now I'm not saying FFXI is a great game, though I did enjoy the time I spent there, I just think that is where some of the discomfort is coming from.

tldr: I guess in essence it comes down to horizontal/vertical progression and the differences each offers. In horizontal progression things take more time and lockouts aren't quite as necessary while with vertical progression your chasing each update so they need some way to hold the player base back so they don't get to far ahead.

No thanks. I like the sheer convenience of having to collect only one type of tome for all the gear. Plus, you're not forced into doing content with just one role. Three tomes types is just overkill.

I want this idea, YES. Because... Many people will mindlessly say "Hey, because you have SO MUCH TIME... Do another character!..." (Sarcastic here, Some of us DON'T HAVE that much time)

Others will go "You don't need full gear for peasant content.." WELL... I'd like to have very competitive tri-rol, not only my healers up, I HATE people bitching about "Wow! X dude can do 1300 DPS with his dragoon!" Well, I ... CAN'T because gear.


Right now I'm just going like.... Healers first priority, casters second, basically because casters includes two dps instead of going either monk,drg or nin, that sadly can't share gear (Please, accessories don't even count as 'share gear' )

Let's not even talk about the fact that... My healer's gear is not even shared at all now with eso.. D:...

Gearing up is annoying for those who like to master all, gives us more options.... More esoterics cap based in our jobs, or stuff divided for jobs, etc (Hey! Like.... We can actually do guildhests for each job, right? Something like that, for gear)

this only works if they block fending accesorys to tanks and slaysing to dps or the tank dps lovers can buy the rigth and left gear in only 1 month, or make a 4º type of tomestomes to buy accesorys but i dont think this happen anyway.