Only two new expert dungeons every patch?

From the translated Game Watch interview:

Quote:

---

In addition to the Gold Saucer content, we're also working on implementing a totally new play style called "Sky Island Exploration," which is unlikely anything we've had before. However, we've always added three instanced dungeons in each patch before, but it will be two starting with the next patch. Instead of producing a bunch of similar type of content, we'd rather spread out the cost of our development to new types of content.

---

I'm not trying to create a thread saying this will be the end of the world, but I do think 2 dungeons is a small amount, and leaves little room for variety in terms of farming for the tomes. I understand spending your resources elsewhere, but the casual side of PvE content is sorely lacking as is, and the removal of one dungeon every major patch cycle isn't going to help.

I'm not sure what Yoshida means in reference to Sky Exploration (guess we'll learn more in the upcoming live letter), but unless that can replace that missing dungeon, and isn't restricted to FC airships, then I don't think it would make up for it.

I'd recommend reading the entire interview, it has quite a bit of interesting info. ;)

You can probably count on it being FC restricted and grind heavy.

Maybe this new Sky Island Exploration has tomes as a reward?
Who knows... I'll probably go read the interview now since anything with "exploration" in it makes me very excited.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m3eansean

You can probably count on it being FC restricted and grind heavy.

---

That's exactly what I'm worried about, in a small FC made up of a few friends and we don't exactly have 30 million gil just standing about to purchase the cheapest one currently available. Don''t want to have to abandon it and join another where it's not as "tight knit" if that's the saying. =l

With all the posts with people asking for some diversity in the content, and not to be a higher level re-skin of 2.0, it's very nice to see that they are listening and developing new things as well.

If they can actually pull off making the two duties per patch, more fun and original, I'm all for it. We'll just have to see how well implemented it is. Of course, no matter what they do, there will always be people who won't be happy with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gralna

snip

---

Honestly if the dungeons had more varied environments rather than the same few colours pasted over and over (both Neverreap and Fractal), then it wouldn't be a problem, but as is neither of those dungeons are amazing in my opinion. If we got dungeons on the level of Pharos Sirius (I found it very visually appealing, challenging, and awesome music) I would not mind, but as of now I enjoy Fractal somewhat but have a strong dislike for Neverreap, taking the risk of making half of the available dungeons disliked by some doesn't seem like the greatest idea.

Later in the interview they state that instanced content is fairly easy/cheap to make, so I have to ask why content has to be cut, if anything I'd expect more. Is SE not using the increased profits on more development staff?

If it's going to be two dungeons, it would be nice if it's two brand new dungeons instead of one new and one old turned into hardmode.

as long as "old" dungeons remain in expert roulette, not like it used to be, i dont really care. but still only having either one or the other, with the stupid one popping 9 out 10 times, is not very enjoyable...

Not really wise gutting what is the biggest draw to mmos these days per patch by intent like this, you can still add varied content in snippets then gutting what is the main course to any mmos still running at the moment. Can't say people will stick around when they start to release less valid content per patch intentionally, theres already complaints on the lack of PVE content released, to release even less is just daft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoshida

Will you be adding to any of the existing attractions?

Yoshida: We will be. Another one of the items is balance adjustments for chocobo races. In addition to the Gold Saucer content, we're also working on implementing a totally new play style called "Sky Island Exploration," which is unlikely anything we've had before. However, we've always added three instanced dungeons in each patch before, but it will be two starting with the next patch. Instead of producing a bunch of similar type of content, we'd rather spread out the cost of our development to new types of content.

---

This sounds awesome!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoshida

Will there be a new type of content in every patch?

Yoshida: The production cost of instanced dungeons is not that high, so we think those will continue to be included in every patch. We're trying to understand our workflow and overall schedule and upcoming new elements better so we can understand if it makes sense to pool certain costs from two patches and have one large update. We are planning to add a bunch of content in the 3.X series that's unlike what we've had before. Perhaps some of the content will fail, but at least we can say we're trying a bunch of new things. I think we developed a pretty solid foundation of gameplay with the 2.0 series, so now we're proposing new things we haven't done before.

You've been saying some of the things you're expecting to add for a while now, so what kinds of things are planned for the 3.X line-up?

Yoshida: We have things like the Grand Company platoon and content using Magitek armor, and we're looking at the calendar and carefully planning it out.

Will the content that uses the Magitek armor have anything to do with that mysterious arena in Ishgard?

---

Just keep reiterating. Nothing successful or great ever comes perfect in one shot. The successful fail again and again then create something beautiful.

Oh my lord, I am really excited about Magitek Armor and that arena!

Hmm if the Sky Island Exploration is indeed about FC stuff that's already a turn off as I don't have one and I don't really plan on getting into one.

But for the two dungeons per patch...oh dear, I'm all in if the two new dungeons are fun to do and as long as they're still tied to the previous two: it's not fun to queue for just two dungeons, while high level and low level have a bunch already.
But if not meh, this might be even more boring than I expected.

I'll definitely want to see how this will go though.

This is good, I've requested in the past that development time be spread to more kinds of content instead of making so many dungeons. Sounds like this is happening. There's already a large amount of dungeons, but room for growth in other aspects of the game. For people wanting variety in acquiring tomestones, I encourage you to try PvP. It's a dynamic kind of activity that is different each time you play, whereas dungeons are the same each time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Hmm if the Sky Island Exploration is indeed about FC stuff that's already a turn off as I don't have one and I don't really plan on getting into one.

But for the two dungeons per patch...oh dear, I'm all in if the two new dungeons are fun to do and as long as they're still tied to the previous two. But if not meh, this might be even more boring.

At least we're getting relics right?

---

Relics aren't exactly going to be exciting content, just grinding old content with a tacked on story. Magitek armor sounds interesting though, hopefully they attach rockets or something to it so it can fly. :p

Pvp would be a good variation if the queues weren't hours long though. I'm no pvp lover, but I'd DEFINITELY do more if I could actually pvp.

Also I changed my original post a bit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

Relics aren't exactly going to be exciting content, just grinding old content with a tacked on story. Magitek armor sounds interesting though, hopefully they attach rockets or something to it so it can fly. :p

---

Yeah I'm already expecting some sort of Atma 3.0 and such: I don't like relics but it's at least something to do: right now I just log in, do my daily roulettes and log off. I'm slowly levelling up but I just don't want to fate grind again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Hmm if the Sky Island Exploration is indeed about FC stuff that's already a turn off as I don't have one and I don't really plan on getting into one.

But for the two dungeons per patch...oh dear, I'm all in if the two new dungeons are fun to do and as long as they're still tied to the previous two: it's not fun to queue for just two dungeons, while high level and low level have a bunch already.
But if not meh, this might be even more boring than I expected.

I'll definitely want to see how this will go though.

---

It might start out as an FC thing only possibly. However, they already have the structure built for expanding on it with flying chocobos, treasure hunts, hunts, etc. And they usually do expand later and make meta.

more triple triad and choco racing another faceroll raid. so more throwaway content ugh.
the sky island is likely going to be fc bound and end up something like raising your choco i bet.
personaly i was hoping for some new way of playing dungeons. like chalenge mode or time atack mode with interesting rewards. dissapointed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

I'm not trying to create a thread saying this will be the end of the world, but I do think 2 dungeons is a small amount, and leaves little room for variety in terms of farming for the tomes. I understand spending your resources elsewhere, but the casual side of PvE content is sorely lacking as is, and the removal of one dungeon every major patch cycle isn't going to help.

---

Are you crazy? All we have currently is casual content. You can get tomes from: Hunts, Dungeons, Frontlines, Raids, Trials, Story etc. What I think they are saying is rather than making more dungeons, making other content so people don't just login, run a couple roulettes and then log out. There really needs to be a lot more variety of content in this game. New dungeons just add more of the same DF trash content that gets old after the first time.

As long as they are fun and not as dreadful as fractal continuum and neverreap, i don't care.

They have said previously that the FC airship stuff will be designed so people outside of the FC can be invited along. Depending on the numbers the new content needs it won't be surprising to see FCs recruiting people through Party Finder and such to fill out their teams before heading out on missions. Small FCs can make alliances with other FCs to do the content and it has potential for players who aren't in an FC to potentially get recruited.

Sure it's open to exploitation and abuse but on the flipside it could be very good for community building. My FC already shares a linkshell with a couple of others for raiding purposes. I could easily see FC alliances and Sky Island Linkshells forming around such content.

Being blunt, this is a reality of breaking the mold on content. There needs to be a trade off. People are always asking for new things on this forum. The thing is, something always has to be given up for that new stuff to be made.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazama

snip

---

Hunts can barely be considered fun or engaging content, they're forced on us to gear for what seems like no reason, and they bring hate into the community for "pulling early" as they say. Want to cut content? Start with hunts. Could quite easily replace them with incredibly large scale FATEs , or world bosses that are actually epic, similar to Guild Wars 2 (after PS3 support is cut), and Frontlines isn't PvE content. As for the rest, I agree, it's all excellent content, but not enough to keep someone engaged for 3-4 months unless they're raiding savage. We'll have to see what this exploration thing is, but if it isn't restricted to FCs and we can form linkshells to do 'em, or join FCs that need more members, I'm all for it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seraseth

With all the posts with people asking for some diversity in the content, and not to be a higher level re-skin of 2.0, it's very nice to see that they are listening and developing new things as well.

---

This.

This is an instance of people never being satisfied with anything. People complain that new content is "just the same with different skins", and then when they say they're going to be doing something different, people still complain.

See what happens...players cry out for different types of content instead of thr same rehashed ARR content....and then complain when they have to cut development in one area to allow for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

As long as they are fun and not as dreadful as fractal continuum and neverreap, i don't care.

---

I thought Fractal is quite fun. Doesn't have constant stops in fights like Neverreap does.

I'm siding with Mr. Happy on this: don't take the old dungeons out of Expert roulette. Nothing kills my desire to farm esoterics more than running only two dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I'm siding with Mr. Happy on this: don't take the old dungeons out of Expert roulette. Nothing kills my desire to farm esoterics more than running only two dungeons.

---

Considering High Level Roulette is now populated with level 50 dungeons, this would be a viable alternative. It would bring a lot more variety than just 3 dungeons, even if some of them are older.

It be better if they just kept adding new expert duty's to the roulette instead of getting rid of the old ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

don't take the old dungeons out of Expert roulette.

---

>_> I was actually just thinking about that the other day. Sure, it'd still be running a few of the same dungeons, but there'd be more options in what you get from expert if they'd keep the dungeons in it, rather than moving them to high lvl.

For instance, they could add 2 more dungeons to expert, while keeping neverreap and fractal, but either tossing that gear somewhere else and putting a higher ilvl gear into those (while having that same gear drop from the 2 new ones) and also increasing the difficulty a little so it matches the 2 new ones (so you don't get those people dropping out because they didn't get the lower ilvl one). Tbh, they could give those amber things from leves a use. New dungeons come out? Old expert dungeon gear goes to that npc. It really shouldn't be that difficult to do, but then again, this is SE

Also, think about it. If they shoved Neverreap and Fractal into high lvl, that could end up locking high lvl for people who aren't 60, seeing as how every time they've added new trials and such, you've had to do them to reunlock the roulette.

It already sux that I get a 50% chance to have a terrible dungeon atm ( hi nevereap...) but I thought that was just a thing for the expansion. In previous patches usually 2 of the 3 expert dungeons were fun and enjoyable and had only 1 sucky dungeon ( hi snowcloak...)

Idk if I trust SE with how they are going about things....not like it matters lol. If they could just make both dungeons traditional like fractal and not annoying as crap like nevereap 1st/2nd boss, i'll be happy. Really they should have a word with whoever came up with nevereap 1st boss =_=

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

Snip

---

No argument there, hunts are terrible. But still, the game is not lacking in "Casual" gameplay content. You have all of Golden Saucer, Fates, Dungeons and everything is designed for casual gamers. Contrary to what you say, raiding savage is not content. It's repeating content that has walls everywhere. If anything, the hardcore crowd is the most disappointed with everything in FFXIV as the entire game is catered to casual players and newbies to MMOs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazama

snip

---

You claim repeatable content with walls that are built so the "hardcore" players take time to learn and beat the content isn't content, but FATEs where you repeat the same content where you can press 1 button over and over to win is? I get that there's content to be had, but I'm specifically talking about PvE content, as in, Trials, Raids, and Dungeons. Not minigames like the Gold Saucer. I want to know how you define hardcore, a huge time investment? If so, Gold Saucer can be considered "hardcore" as the two mounts together would cost 1.2 million MGP, and that's a massive investment of time (or luck, with the lottery). Relics can be considered hardcore content, as they're also a huge time and gil investment, as is high end crafting, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obysuca

Also, think about it. If they shoved Neverreap and Fractal into high lvl, that could end up locking high lvl for people who aren't 60, seeing as how every time they've added new trials and such, you've had to do them to reunlock the roulette.

---

I'd prefer if the current High-Level Roulette be kept separate from level 60 dungeons.

Please just add the two new dungeons to the expert roulette and don't take any out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I'd prefer if the current High-Level Roulette be kept separate from level 60 dungeons.

---

Same, but you know how SE is being with XIV. "You have to only do these 2 dungeons! No variety!" :/ so chances are, they'll throw it into high lvl

Eh, keep in mind how "limited" it might be, odds are they will allow anyone to join in sky exploration, if they are in party but of course an FC will have to have access to the area in order to do it.

Until it's implemented it will be hard to judge but honestly if it's something like:
2 dungeons
3-4 islands to explore

I'd definitely take that over just 3 dungeons if the islands which can be explored offer a huge opportunity at an open ended instance experience.

Though thankfully it sounds like that isn't tied to the 24 man raid but at the same time there is no telling what the party limit might be, maybe it will be 2-8 man content.

Another thought to keep in mind is current dungeons work like this
3 bosses
1 path per boss
done

Now ask yourself wouldn't it be more engaging to have content that wasn't just 3 dungeons, that all have 3 bosses, that all have a linear path to take that are all just the same sort of playstyle just different bosses, different enemies and different mechanics to master?

With skyland exploration it could be something like, mobs to kill, certain mobs to kill to find items, unlock new areas, discover something new, obtain an item to use on another island to spawn a boss etc etc. You don't have to create a dungeon experience that they try to implement to have all dungeons have about the same runtime.

Instead they can create these islands that could vary greatly based on what they want each island to represent and the potential reward from each one so honestly, losing 1 dungeon in favor of a new instance content that has the potential to offer more variety than the current dungeon cookie cutter process sounds awesome to me.

I don't mind only getting two new dungeons every update, dungeons are pathetically easy pieces of content anyway. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing no new dungeons at all, if it meant the developers could instead work on breaking out of the mold 2.0 set... I'd rather have more interesting content with some actual depth, than have the same rehashed piece of content every update...

Comments like "We are planning to add a bunch of content in the 3.X series that's unlike what we've had before." are nice and all, but I'm just stuck here questioning why 3.0 was pretty much exactly the same as 2.0 then... I mean really... Compare the endgames of both, the only "improvement" 3.0 offered is the story mode version of the raid. That's it, and we've seemingly lost Relics for that... 3.0 really is lacking some big "epic" Job quest upon hitting the cap... I guess we have Hunts now, but does anyone care for those? The only thing they've even "improved" upon with them was adding multiple tiers of Mark Bills... Did I imagine all the threads complaining about those in 2.x? Seriously, one of the number one suggestions I saw regarding Mark Bills was "The B Rank should be daily, the trash/FATE ones suck", and they went ahead and gave us two extra trash-tier Mark Bills? Laugh out loud... Thanks for taking the FATEs out I guess, but Christ...

I wonder how they'll actually handle failed content... I remember Final Fantasy XI doing absolutely nothing with the stream of failures Wings of the Goddess pumped out (Synergy, Evoliths, ANNMs, Campaign Ops, MMM... I think SCNMs was the only positive in that expansion)... Ideally I'd like them to not abandon content and actually go back and adjust it (like I want them to go back and rework Hunts, and even the tomestone grind...), but content in this game has a short lifespan so it's probably not worth going back to adjust anything... Then again, I see that as an issue anyway...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

Please just add the two new dungeons to the expert roulette and don't take any out.

---

Please this for the love of god, if neverreap is still in it i don't care atleast it will only be a 25% chance to get it rather then the current 100% chance i swear the other one doesn't exist anymore