Nael deus Darnus - T9

Are they ever going to tone down the mechanics so you don't have to memorize team jump rope for the story mode?

Even unsynced at 60, any meteors exploding = instant death (which is absurd). By comparison, the Manipulator wasn't this convoluted to figure out the first time. There's no reason for Second Coil to be any more punishing than normal mode Alexander.

Ugh a fight that makes you do mechanics correctly?! You can't just lolza-herpa-derp your way to an accidental victory?! what a pain!

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Ugh a fight that makes you do mechanics correctly?! You can't just lolza-herpa-derp your way to an accidental victory?! what a pain!

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I know right?

No, i'd like this fight to stay the way it is. Just because you're doing it unsynced doesn't mean you shouldn't need to learn mechanics.
Dumbing down fights because players are too lazy or stupid to learn how it works is not the way this game should be progressing.
Anyway, the coils are optional content.

Also, the reason why Alexander normal is easier than this, is specifically because the devs want more average players to be able to complete it.

I'm sorry but I hope not. That fight and T13 are my favorite fights in the game. It just takes come Coordination for the meteors.
And the Meteors are only the easy part.

Imperium!
Imperium!
Imperium ave!

I'm pretty sure second coil already had the mechanics ripped out of them before going on the duty finder. The original second coil no longer exists and it is impossible to ever do it again. You can only do the version with barely any mechanics left, which is the one titled "second coil of bahamut" currently, or a harder version titled "second coil of bahamut - savage". Pretty sure any more mechanics removed and it couldn't be called a raid anymore. Also the fact that you think that doing more damage means you should pass a raid is quite confusing in itself. Do you think that raids are just dps checks?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

There's no reason for Second Coil to be any more punishing than normal mode Alexander.

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Sure there is. Second Coil was never meant to be on par with anything 'story mode'. The fight is ludicrously easy at level 60, embarrassingly so.

Me and my FC neighbor can make progress in T9 with 4 man only (WAR,WHM,BLM,SMN) only until final phase. I don't know, maybe if our gear are fit well we could clear it.

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Originally Posted by Eul

Me and my FC neighbor can make progress in T9 with 4 man only (WAR,WHM,BLM,SMN) only until final phase. I don't know, maybe if our gear are fit well we could clear it.

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It's definitely doable with 4 people, I've cleared it as WAR WHM NIN SMN quite a few times now.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

It's definitely doable with 4 people, I've cleared it as WAR WHM NIN SMN quite a few times now.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbYYx7_G3NM <- 4man T9 at lvl 50 (Pre HW obviously)

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

I'm pretty sure second coil already had the mechanics ripped out of them before going on the duty finder.

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There was like a 3 week period that it was in duty finder before nerfs were implemented. I recall many 'T7 IS IMPOSSIBRU IN DF" posts back then. :)

And before more of you guys decide to lash out against OP, based of his usage of words, its plainly obvious he started playing this game post-2.4 at the earliest. His confusion over Second Coil and Second Coil (Savage) makes sense as he thinks Alexander Normal and Savage are comparable, when they're totally different.

@OP. Second Coil of Bahamut right now is a heavily nerfed (minus T9) shadow of its former self. Savage Coil was basically an experiment to see if people would do super hard versions of an already hard raid. Turns out many didn't and wouldn't. Savage Alexander is comparable to normal Coil pre-nerf.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

I'm pretty sure second coil already had the mechanics ripped out of them before going on the duty finder.

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T9 had no mechanics removed afaik.

I have a better idea.

Earn your win.

Yes, Echo buffs aside, T9 remains the only Coil turn that has not seen any drastic changes (if any at all). And no amount of overgearing or overleveling excuses even one player from handling mechanics properly. By comparison, T13 is a complete faceroll with a full party of unsynced 60s.

You'll find little sympathy as T9 remains the one great challenge in game that retains much of its purity even after so long. But it's not impossible. Keep at it, practice, study the fight, learn the fight well, and you'll pull it off. It's quite the satisfaction when you do :)

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Yes, Echo buffs aside, T9 remains the only Coil turn that has not seen any drastic changes (if any at all). And no amount of overgearing or overleveling excuses even one player from handling mechanics properly. By comparison, T13 is a complete faceroll with a full party of unsynced 60s.

You'll find little sympathy as T9 remains the one great challenge in game that retains much of its purity even after so long. But it's not impossible. Keep at it, practice, study the fight, learn the fight well, and you'll pull it off. It's quite the satisfaction when you do :)

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T5 is largely unchanged since the original adjustment of twisters. I think they nerfed add HP awhile back but the mechanics are all intact.

It baffles me to this day that the "original" versions of Coil aren't made available for people who want to go look at it when it was the progression content. They could even add level sync so people could see what it was like to do it on-level with the gear at the time. I doubt that many people would opt to do it that way but I'm sure there would always be a few groups comprised of new and returning players in there at any given time who were just interested in doing it as it was "back in the day" for funsies.

Because god forbid you learn how to do a fight.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Are they ever going to tone down the mechanics so you don't have to memorize team jump rope for the story mode?

Even unsynced at 60, any meteors exploding = instant death (which is absurd). By comparison, the Manipulator wasn't this convoluted to figure out the first time. There's no reason for Second Coil to be any more punishing than normal mode Alexander.

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Unsynced the fight takes around 2 minutes? You get only 1 meteor, burn golems in 10 seconds, don't even get to 2nd heavensfall and get around 3 or 4 thunder-strucks?. If you wipe at meteors between golems, then you lack coordination and even holy water wouldn't help you, it is not that hard to separate around circle and don't run to each other.

Also all 3 coils were at the same difficulty as Alex Savage. Alex story mode was made for people like you (not an insult) so you can experience the story without actually trying harder than in regular dungeons or primals (this might be taken as an insult, I am not even sorry).

Really? You can ignore most mechanics now, and the ones you don't, you won't be seeing more than once aside the golems, which also now die in 3 seconds.

Original Normal Mode Coil=Savage Alex Difficulty-wise

Original Savage Coils>*Savage* Alex and Normal Coils difficulty-wise.

Just in-case you were wondering.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Are they ever going to tone down the mechanics so you don't have to memorize team jump rope for the story mode?

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Are you ever going to get good?

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Ugh a fight that makes you do mechanics correctly?! You can't just lolza-herpa-derp your way to an accidental victory?! what a pain!

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I had to laugh at your second sentence. Liked.

OP, I think you are laboring under a misunderstanding that is entirely on Yoshi-P's development team. They used the same terms "normal" and "savage" to describe their new raiding scheme which didn't exist in 2.0. Binding Coil was made as an "extreme mode" raid, whereas Alexander normal mode is a more toned down experience.

OP is a baddie and should be playing tetris instead of this game.

I hate to say this, but you can pretty much herp derp your way thru T9 now. I ran in an unsynched six deeps party last night for the funsies and it was a total burn. Elements were pretty much all over the place, but as long as there is minimal adherence to the intended mechanics, you can pretty much fall into a victory. It was the sloppiest thing I've ever seen as no one was taking it seriously, and the instance virtually melted.

No one likes to say this, but if you STILL find T9 to be too difficult after all of this time, gear, echo, etc. then maybe that sort of content just isn't for you, furthermore, perhaps if you desire a participation trophy so much, MMOs might not be the genre for you. With all of the hand holding already present for this fight, yet you STILL want to complain? Yeah you're not cut out for this, stop trying to shoehorn your way in and it certainly isn't the cobbler's fault this far in.

My wife with the FC finally got it done. I was at work.

She said it wasn't too bad. She was the only not 60
Took her 3 groups of 3 Random Party finder people.

We cleared T9 with 6 people, one of which was new to the fight. Learn the mechanics, stop asking for handouts.

Throwing my chip in with the whole "when is this getting toned down" crowd. The fight drops weapons of a tier that becomes literal *handouts* upon reaching Ishgard. There's no reason for it to maintain the difficulty that it has now.

Savage can remain untouched for the people that still want a challenging T9 experience.

Trying to clear T9 has been like doing a reenactment of the AVGN's review of Silver Surfer.

"You touch the top of the building, you die. You touch the ceiling, you die. You touch the floor, you die. Too far to the right, you die. Too far to the left, you die. You die, you die, you die, die die die die die die die die die die die die die die!!"

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

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Similarly, since the weapons are pointless there's no reason to not not nerf it. Nobody needs it for literally anything except glamour or enjoying the fight, and 1 of those reasons would be removed if the fight was nerfed.

Also, as others said, gear and levels really have nerfed it. Might still seem hard if you're seeing it for the first time, but the change is pretty significant. Not to the point that you can literally not die, but really all you need to do correctly are meteors and divebombs. 2 mechanics. Everything else is recoverable. And even a messed up db is recoverable to a certain extent, depending on who all gets hit by it. So 1.5 mechanics that you need to do correctly. That's not an unreasonable standard at all.

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Similarly, since the weapons are pointless there's no reason to not not nerf it. Nobody needs it for literally anything except glamour or enjoying the fight, and 1 of those reasons would be removed if the fight was nerfed.

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Again, people can do Savage if they want to "enjoy the fight"

Personally, I just want to get through this now-old storyline at last, but even being 10 levels higher doesn't do jack about all the instant death this fight throws at you, so I don't know why people keep bringing it up as if it makes a significant difference. Sure, it quickens the fight by a tremendous margin, if you already knew what to do and how to handle everything perfectly. If you don't, nothing has really changed at all.

Imo T9 will always be harder than T13 & T5.
Almost every phase has an insta death mechanic.

T9
* all phases -arena wall
P1- meteors
P2- super golem & meteors
P3- touching the heavensfall wall & garrote
P4- high chances of failed DB that will slam ppl in an L shape into the wall

T5
*All phases- arena wall
P1-none
P2-failed conflags?
P3- arena so huge DBs probably wont kill u/ hurt u much- none
P4- dreadknights

T13
*All phases- arena wall
P1- none really lol
P2- not managing megaflare towers?
P3-failing DBs?
P4-twisters? Ahk morn management

T9 will always be the hardest as there r just a lot of 1 shot mechanics that being level 60 i180 wont make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

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It makes a huge difference. A couple of the one shot mechanics are still one shots, but so many one shot mechanics simply don't exist with gear/levels.

The 2 tank busters? Not a thing. Golem/Ghost dps checks? Not a thing. The crazy aoe healing requirements for the last 2 phases? Not a thing. Just because 1.5 of the mechanics are still unnerfed doesn't mean the whole fight is unnerfed. It's much easier in very easily quantifiable ways. You can skip whole phases, whole mechanics, and almost all the ones you can't skip are trivialized.

"If you don't [know the fight perfectly], nothing has really changed at all." is just objectively untrue. It can still be a challenge, but absurdly less so. Here's literally all you need to know as a new person in that fight:

1) spread out for meteors after golems die. Don't drop meteors near each other. You'll have enough time to get in position, go make a sandwich, then come back and do the mechanic because your dps is literally over double what the fight is tuned for.
2) have someone mark db. Run to A if you have it, stay away from A if you don't. Then do the same with B.

Grats, you just cleared all 2 of the mechanics that can still wipe a group.

It's still one of the more mechanically complex fights, and to execute it perfectly is still a bit difficult. But just getting a clear is not difficult at all; it'll be harder getting a group than actually clearing it. And to say that there's straight up no difference at all is just ridiculous.

Edit: PS savage is a completely different fight, and a completely different challenge. Them both being a challenge does not mean that they satisfy the same desire. Also, even if you disagree with everything so far, you need a reason to change it. You don't need a reason to keep things how they are. There's no reason to change it, so the point's moot.

Edit2: Main point is: you can clear it. You may have to actually learn some mechanics (the horror!) but you can clear it regardless. You don't need anything close to the skill/coordination you needed when it was relevant. You just need a few people and a basic understanding of the fight. If you really want to clear it, then learn it and clear it. Don't just sit around waiting for it to be handed to you.

Nnnnope they are not.

Seriously. Get some friends together and run it a couple of times. I helped 5 newbies from my FC clear it within a couple of hours.
Yes, it takes some actual effort. Shocking.

I did an unsynced t9 farm a few days ago for fun. The fight is so easy now that divebombs can straight out kill 5 people and it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Again, people can do Savage if they want to "enjoy the fight"

Personally, I just want to get through this now-old storyline at last, but even being 10 levels higher doesn't do jack about all the instant death this fight throws at you, so I don't know why people keep bringing it up as if it makes a significant difference. Sure, it quickens the fight by a tremendous margin, if you already knew what to do and how to handle everything perfectly. If you don't, nothing has really changed at all.

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It's changed considerably.

Tank busters are a joke.
DPS checks are a joke.
Awkward switch into last phase is no longer present or EXTREMELY easy to "recover" from.
More dps=shorter fight, less of a chance to derp.

Do you know how annoying it was back when this fight first came out when your team had the first three phases down and needed practice on the last phase? Do you know how annoying it was to slog through all the previous phases just to get to the last part you needed work in? You can get to the last phase now extremely fast.

Stop asking for handouts. God forbid that there are a handful of fights in this game that you can't faceroll through. Get some practice in, and beat the fight. If you cannot do that with echo and level 60, like someone else said, maybe that part of the game just isn't for you; you have like 90% or higher of this game's content that's catered specifically towards you anyway. Why nerf T9? So you can qq about T12 and T13 when you get there?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Are they ever going to tone down the mechanics so you don't have to memorize team jump rope for the story mode?

Even unsynced at 60, any meteors exploding = instant death (which is absurd). By comparison, the Manipulator wasn't this convoluted to figure out the first time. There's no reason for Second Coil to be any more punishing than normal mode Alexander.

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Didn't you get the memo? This game is WAY too easy. If you're not DPSing him to death in, like, 30 seconds, you're doing it wrong

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Also, even if you disagree with everything so far, you need a reason to change it. You don't need a reason to keep things how they are. There's no reason to change it, so the point's moot.

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How about "the content is hella old and a lot more storyline/lore-important than Alexander is (yet Alexander still got a "dumbed down" version) and there's a lot of people who would like to clear it but cannot due to the fact that even Echo and 10 more levels really don't help at all on fights that are filled with cheesy 1-shot mechanics"? To me that's more than enough of a good reason.

It's the same reason, by the way, that Echo never helped with Titan EX either.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

How about "the content is hella old and a lot more storyline/lore-important than Alexander is (yet Alexander still got a "dumbed down" version) and there's a lot of people who would like to clear it but cannot due to the fact that even Echo and 10 more levels really don't help at all on fights that are filled with cheesy 1-shot mechanics"? To me that's more than enough of a good reason.

It's the same reason, by the way, that Echo never helped with Titan EX either.

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Because learning the fight is obviously out of the question and you obviously don't have complete control over the "cheesy" 1 shot moves.

"help, the landslide targeted me and I lost the ability to dodge"

On a more serious note, T9 is one of the most consistent fights in this game. It's not like T7 where a Renaud would appear in a random area of the arena as soon as you use an OTGCD AoE attack and get agro on it by mistake. The only thing that's up to RNG in T9 is WHO gets which mechanic and failure to carry it out appropriately will result in punishment, as it should be. Learn the mechanics, and do the fight. You have no one but yourself to blame if you are incapable of doing that.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

How about "the content is hella old and a lot more storyline/lore-important than Alexander is (yet Alexander still got a "dumbed down" version) and there's a lot of people who would like to clear it but cannot due to the fact that even Echo and 10 more levels really don't help at all on fights that are filled with cheesy 1-shot mechanics"? To me that's more than enough of a good reason.

It's the same reason, by the way, that Echo never helped with Titan EX either.

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I cannot, without losing all faith in humanity, believe that the fight is legitimately impossible for anyone at this point. Regardless of your personal skill, if you're actually putting forth effort, you can clear it.

And pls stop relying so heavily on the 10 levels and mountains of gear not making a difference. They don't make the fight auto-complete, but plenty of people have pointed out very specifically how it makes the fight significantly easier.

Edit: Also, while there are 1 shot mechanics, they aren't twitchy like titan ex. You have time to set up for all the one shot mechanics in t9. They're nothing like WotL/landslide. As long as you know what to do with the marker over your head you're all set.

Why? Turn 9's mechanics aren't even that hard and with good DPS now, you'll never see the DBs and at most only one meteor will drop in the first phase. I know there's a such thing as people still having problems with the golem meteors but this involves some practice (and using the markings on the ground). You're only talking about the meteors too as being hard.. wait until you meet Phase 4 with Fire Out > Fire In and Thunder go behind. P1-2 is not the hardest part of this fight at all.

Alexander Normal Mode was designed for those that wanted to experience the story. Turn 9 was easy enough before HW, it has became even easier. Just read guides, watch videos, know what to do before you come into the fight.