How are WARs doing 1k+ DPS?

I'm talking about sustained DPS. I'm i190 w/ eso weapon and I'm topping 850-900 on dummies. I'm still doing 3 Fell Cleaves per Berserk, and always have Fracture on. Is there something I'm missing? My SS is only 528 though...

blow all your offensive cd's and str pot in your 3 fell cleave window, and alternate between storms eye combo and butchers block combo. Im i190 (all slaying accs and bonus 35pts in str) and do around 1050-1100 sustained. Use your berserk carefully, dont waste it on 2 fell cleaves if you can get a 3 fell cleave window shortly. If I had a healer dispelling my pacification every time the dps would be even higher.

Record your rotation, no way to tell what you're doing wrong without knowing what you're doing at all.

My dps for as1 faust as a ot (i take adds btw) is about 780

Well in AS 2 using decimate and overpower a lot helps. str acc, pots and rotations appropriate for fights is the general gist. I do less in AS 1 because I need to stay in defiance for longer than I assume some WARs do.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Well in AS 2 using decimate and overpower a lot helps. str acc, pots and rotations appropriate for fights is the general gist. I do less in AS 1 because I need to stay in defiance for longer than I assume some WARs do.

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I got 780 with defiance on after getting 3 adds

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Originally Posted by FallenHero

blow all your offensive cd's and str pot in your 3 fell cleave window, and alternate between storms eye combo and butchers block combo. Im i190 (all slaying accs and bonus 35pts in str) and do around 1050-1100 sustained. Use your berserk carefully, dont waste it on 2 fell cleaves if you can get a 3 fell cleave window shortly. If I had a healer dispelling my pacification every time the dps would be even higher.

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I'm able to sustain this MTing Faust in A1S without doing any triple fell cleave nonsense. Don't see the point in dumping all my CDs just to squeeze in another hit when you can still maintain the same DPS without it.

I'll get some flak for this but skip the BB combo unless you need aggro. Just stick to SE and refresh your SP as needed for sustained dps. Having sustained maim buff and SE debuff completly makes the extra 20 potency BB dishes out obsolete. SE or Maim dropping are your biggest dps losses.

Popping infuriate as early as you can before a pull so the timer is refreshed faster is a huge asset. Judged based on how early you can do this by how soon your party is ready for a pull, open with a tomahawk>heavy swing>unchained>BB combo>SE combo and switch to deliverance as soon as unchained drops is usually enough to keep aggro when you're MT. If you see the aggro bar rising on dps, just switch to defiance and swap a SP for a BB and resume your rotation in deliverance.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

I'm able to sustain this MTing Faust in A1S without doing any triple fell cleave nonsense. Don't see the point in dumping all my CDs just to squeeze in another hit when you can still maintain the same DPS without it.

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No, you can't maintain the same DPS without it. That should be obvious. Not to say it'll be a huge loss, but it'll be a loss to not do that. And it's 2 cooldowns, not all your cooldowns. I usually go for 3x Fell Cleave opener at the beginning when I'm OT, then switch to MT at 4 adds and Veng/Intuition are coming off cooldown nearer the end (which is when I want them anyway).

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I'll get some flak for this but skip the BB combo unless you need aggro. Just stick to SE and refresh your SP as needed for sustained dps. Having sustained maim buff and SE debuff completly makes the extra 20 potency BB dishes out obsolete. SE or Maim dropping are your biggest dps losses.

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An interesting thought, but gut reaction is to not believe that. When BB/SE alternate, there is never a loss of Maim or Eye .. Unless you have to stop to deal with fight mechanics. Does the occasional brief loss of these outweigh the constant loss of potency from SP combo over BB? .. I have no way to measure really.

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Popping infuriate as early as you can before a pull so the timer is refreshed faster is a huge asset. ...

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I've never realistically been able to time that with group. Seems clear that doing so would be a DPS increase (if for no other reason than crit bonus), but how big a difference really? I want Storm's Eye on before hitting pot/Berserk -> all 3 Fell Cleaves. So doing this I would gain what .. Tapering crit bonus on 6 or 7 GCDs right at the start? Anything else?

Personally I like the infuriate to be the 2nd fell cleave, so popping it early allows for a bb>SE unchained>berserk+IR>deliverance>str pot>fell cleave>infuriate>fell cleave>SE>veng+RI>HS>Maim>fell cleave>Sp. Granted, I sit at 620 skill speed and if I do it without clipping, I get that sp in before pacification(not necessary though with my FC static; healer knows to esuna). Then I drop fracture>SE>SP>SE>fracture>SE>SE>SP>fracture so forth till the CDs are ready for the fell cleave combos again. Granted this is me personally, and other warriors with diff stay builds will do it other ways

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Originally Posted by RhazeCain

No, you can't maintain the same DPS without it. That should be obvious. Not to say it'll be a huge loss, but it'll be a loss to not do that. And it's 2 cooldowns, not all your cooldowns. I usually go for 3x Fell Cleave opener at the beginning when I'm OT, then switch to MT at 4 adds and Veng/Intuition are coming off cooldown nearer the end (which is when I want them anyway).

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Because you raid with me and see my numbers, right? I average anywhere from 1050-1150 as MT on Faust in A1S without triple Fell Cleave. Using Vengeance and Raw is using pretty much all of your defensive CDs at once, which is stupid if you're actually tanking something. You also need to waste time sitting on stacks to be able to triple cleave in order for everything to line up perfectly unless there's some new magic rotation out there that I haven't seen.

You don't need both Vengeance and RI to get 3 FCs during berserk. Just one.

Might I ask what rotation you use and whether or not you dip into Defiance at any point? Fell Cleave being a large chunk of our overall DPS (something like 20-25% depending on crits iirc) it's hard to believe that you would produce this result doing only double FC in your berserk window.

In regards to Pre-Infuriate: I believe the purpose now is to have your Berserk window closer(right after the first SE combo) so that it can line up with Battle Litany and Trick Attack for some big juicy Fell Cleaves as well as putting Berserk and various other offensive buffs on CD faster.

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Originally Posted by Abbul_Stonecleaver

You don't need both Vengeance and RI to get 3 FCs during berserk. Just one.

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Then I must have been looking at an old rotation. The point still stands, that he has no place to speak about what numbers I'm pulling as he doesn't run with me.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

Might I ask what rotation you use and whether or not you dip into Defiance at any point? Fell Cleave being a large chunk of our overall DPS (something like 20-25% depending on crits iirc) it's hard to believe that you would produce this result doing only double FC in your berserk window.

In regards to Pre-Infuriate: I believe the purpose now is to have your Berserk window closer(right after the first SE combo) so that it can line up with Battle Litany and Trick Attack for some big juicy Fell Cleaves as well as putting Berserk and various other offensive buffs on CD faster.

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On Faust I never have to touch Defiance at all. IR gets used on CD as it syncs with every other Zerk after the initial opener and Vengeance/RI get timed as I actually need to use a CD to allow me to get the most out of it between the bonus stack of Abandon and the actual defensive aspect. I run full pentamelded 150 accessories. Storms' Path never goes up, I only use Eye/BB.

I only get 2 Zerks maximum on Faust, so I'd recommend saving IR if that's the case for you as well. I put up Path @ 4 stacks, but that's because I'm OT and we have the PLD tanking everything. 3x FC is a DPS gain no matter how you look at it, but if what you're doing is working then there's no reason to change it.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I only get 2 Zerks maximum on Faust, so I'd recommend saving IR if that's the case for you as well. I put up Path @ 4 stacks, but that's because I'm OT and we have the PLD tanking everything. 3x FC is a DPS gain no matter how you look at it, but if what you're doing is working then there's no reason to change it.

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I only get two Zerks on Faust, so yes, I pair IR and Zerk together for that, as a rule I use IR on CD though. If there's a specific rotation that I'm missing that actually works for a triple cleave now then I'm all ears and would love to learn it. But the last one I was aware of required using both Vengeance and RI to squeeze the third FC in.

Protip for MT Full slaying Faust CD timings, you can squeeze a vengeance at Start and Raw Intuition shortly after in the Berserk window and they will both be up towards the end of the Fight where he has 5-6 stacks. So ideally having Vengeance and RI for 1-2, Foresight and Awareness for 3-4, Thrill of Battle and Convalescence at 4-5 and RI Zerk and/or Vengeance at 5-6. Doing so should have maximum cd usage as well as supplementing 3FC 9Zerk.

Then again this is just Faust lol.

Edit:
3 FC 9 Zerk: prebuilt 4 wrath. HS(Zerk) > FC(IR) > Maim/SS(Pot) > SE/BB(RI/Veng) > HS(BS) > Maim/SS > SE/BB > FC(Infuriate) > Frac > FC.

Let's try to collaborate instead of critique each other's rotations, I actually like this thread. No point letting it devolve into a....

http://img.pandawhale.com/77839-inte...-derp-jXLg.gif

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

Protip for MT Full slaying Faust CD timings, you can squeeze a vengeance at Start and Raw Intuition shortly after in the Berserk window and they will both be up towards the end of the Fight where he has 5-6 stacks. So ideally having Vengeance and RI for 1-2, Foresight and Awareness for 3-4, Thrill of Battle and Convalescence at 4-5 and RI Zerk and/or Vengeance at 5-6

Then again this is just Faust lol.

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Keep in mind changing macros and cross class action/rotations between Faust and the main boss is totally legit too. Next week I'm going to ot the adds and test feather foot to see if they can be dodged. If anyone has attempted this, post plz and save me the hassle. Popping feather foot at 6 adds would be a definite mitigation on those cleaves

Well I guess you could replace Provoke for Featherfoot? If you really wanted to min-max it then I suppose Featherfoot nexto Foresight and Awareness then Bloodbath Timed with Both Zerks. Seems like a hassle to put your CC's on that long reset timer just for a 10% chance at evasion that probably doesn't work considering we're unable to dodge any attacks without it. Prove me wrong though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjTt2UxKvCM

This is the rotation I use as OT for 3x FC, but it requires a pre-Vengeance and an RI. Dunno how good it would be as a MT rotation (I don't run with a NIN).

Without using Vengeance you would do something like:

HS -> Maim -> Eye -> [Brutal] -> HS -> Maim -> [Pot] -> Eye -> IR -> Fracture -> HS -> Berserk -> FC -> Infuriate -> FC -> [RI] -> SS -> BB -> HS -> Maim -> SE -> Fracture -> FC -> Pacified

Use Brutal Swing whenever it comes back up, which should be somewhere in the Berserk window. The only problem with this is I have no idea how powerful NIN's aggro generation tool is, and this is starting in Deliverance and doing 2x SE before 1 BB (if you don't, Eye will fall off, but I guess if you coordinate with your NIN you could fix that). If you manage to not lose aggro, this will give you 2 fully buffed FCs and 1 Berserk buffed FC. If nothing else, that should explain the basic principle behind getting 3x FC without using Veng + RI.

Nin's Shadewalker (Enmity Transfer) allows me to hold hate against a Front Loading DRG If I start into SE BB then 9zerk this is howeer still extremely close. Pop a smokescreen on the DRG and the rest using Quelling Strikes you won't need defiance at all for aggro granted that I am using BB every chance I get.

In regards to your Ot rotation, I feel that the Frac just ends up clipping the zerk frac and you're better off using your pot and IR inside yorurberserk so that they have the full effect as well as fully buffing the ending Fracture. Can't roughly calculate total potencies now cause of mobile phone though I don't believe its that much of a difference to matter all that much.

I'd actually love to see the math on that since I'm mainly going under assumptions. My thought process was that I had a 5 Abandon + IR + Pot buffed Fracture which is clipped at 10s-ish by a Berserk + 5 Abandon Fracture. If I moved Fracture ahead after the 2x FCs (or in-between them for the 5 Abandon bonus) then I'd only get the 1 buffed Fracture. There might be something really obvious I'm missing, the former just seemed better when I was testing out different things.

Very sparse testing in 2.x, and before skill speed revamp, but I believe fractures dot is only increased during berserk, and if the buff wears before the dot, it just does normal potency damage. That's why my rotation only includes the 1 fracture in favour of more stacks. If I'm wrong, let me know

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Mah Crude Maths
Arbitrary buff modifiers.
Forgot Deliverance.
BLM Friend was useless.
F@#! calculating Crit RNG
No sleep

Just check out Xeno's channel and you are good to go.

what are ppls average results from AS1 Oppressor? ive been averaging about 600-700 from what ive been told. during our progression and on our clear i was around 647. given i goofed my rotations a bit and died at the end. i typically take 1.0 while in deliverance as the MT runs across the map while .05 is walking down and don't throw on Defiance until right as ADDs spawn until Jump- then im in deliverance again till ADDS etc. i know i am losing dps when i need to run away to bait resin if i have 2 lazers right next/under the boss ( i bait it away in a corner to give melee/ranged dps enough wiggle room )- but i figure thats just RNG

My first clear with a lot of Defiance time was 636 in week 1. My clear tonight was surprisingly just under 700. I expected way more as I used a lot more Deliverance. However, I did have to use Defiance a lot after second buster due to WHM running low on mana.

I think it would be a lot more but we killed it tonight just after third jump literally right as I pressed Berserk. Had we killed it before third jump entirely, or a few seconds later for my Berserked Fell Cleave goodness, I would have been somewhere higher.

Just FYI on Internal Release (and infuriate) 60s vs 90s.

There is no reason to use them on CD.

All other things being equal, using them during zerk is a 50% increase in effectiveness.

In 3 minutes, 3 60s cd is equivalent to 2 90s CD * 1.5.

So it is a wash on paper. In reality, it may also sync better with other CDs and/or burst windows, if you are saving zerk for that.

So go ahead and save them.