Gauss Barrel and Wanderers Minuet is not a fun mechanic.

I'm sorry to speak out openly about this for I'm sure I will have some who will disagree on this issue. It's just not a attractive mechanic and completely changes the game play when these two classes reach level 52. It's just plain boring, unattractive and takes away from being a unique set of classes into a RNG mage based class with a set of visual unappealing sets of skills.

I for one want to enjoy these two classes but since we already have a 1.5sec global cooldown it really makes the gameplay slow and boring when you add cast times into the mix. I'm sure we can offer a better solution to this issue? May I offer one for you?

Guass Barrel/Wanderers Minuet
Gain unique abilities when activated.
Increases damage done by 20% when standing still for 4 secs. Last 8 secs.


Wouldn't that sound like more of a viable solution?

I find them fun. The cast time isn't that long.

i heard if you say "rework wanderer's minuet" three times while looking at a mirror, yoship appears

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Originally Posted by bideogames

i heard if you say "rework wanderer's minuet" three times while looking at a mirror, yoship appears

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Tried it didn't work. Is it currently broken or require a cast time?

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Originally Posted by Delsai

Tried it didn't work. Is it currently broken or require a cast time?

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You have to open your mouth for 1.5 seconds before saying each word.

I like GB now that stance dancing is possible, makes it more interactive than just "set and forget."

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

You have to open your mouth for 1.5 seconds before saying each word.

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+ try to touch your uvula with the tongue.... because brd and mch casting animation are cool like that

GB is fine. dont have a 50+ brd to speak on minuet though. after playing a BLM a bit, saying GB has a mobility issue is laughable. it hardly limits you at all, you have to cancel a cast maybe once in a blue moon on a mch.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

I'm sorry to speak out openly about this for I'm sure I will have some who will disagree on this issue. It's just not a attractive mechanic and completely changes the game play when these two classes reach level 52. It's just plain boring, unattractive and takes away from being a unique set of classes into a RNG mage based class with a set of visual unappealing sets of skills.

I for one want to enjoy these two classes but since we already have a 1.5sec global cooldown it really makes the gameplay slow and boring when you add cast times into the mix. I'm sure we can offer a better solution to this issue? May I offer one for you?

Guass Barrel/Wanderers Minuet
Gain unique abilities when activated.
Increases damage done by 20% when standing still for 4 secs. Last 8 secs.


Wouldn't that sound like more of a viable solution?

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You don't even have a 52 bard nor a 52 MCH how can you say without testing?

Gauss is fine and plenty fun, WM doesn't feel right with how BRD has random procs on Bloodletter.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

Gauss is fine and plenty fun, WM doesn't feel right with how BRD has random procs on Bloodletter.

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I love new BRD overall but as you say Bloodletter proc feel contradictory to the kit. It make sense if you could stack like 5 procs or something like that but its pretty frustrating to lose procs.

Gauss Barrel is fine. Hell, it feels weird NOT using it sometimes now.

As for Minuet, if the bigger issue is oGCD conflicts or awkwardness with its implementation, could the answer perhaps lie in tweaking the WM skills or oGCDs to allow for a better/smoother flow? This is, of course, operating on the idea that Minuet will not be arbitrarily removed or severely altered the way some players want it to be.

It wouldn't be impossible, and yes, it WOULD require players learn to Bard again at the most, but a happy middleground wouldn't be too bad, would it?

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Gauss Barrel is fine. Hell, it feels weird NOT using it sometimes now.

As for Minuet, if the bigger issue is oGCD conflicts or awkwardness with its implementation, could the answer perhaps lie in tweaking the WM skills or oGCDs to allow for a better/smoother flow? This is, of course, operating on the idea that Minuet will not be arbitrarily removed or severely altered the way some players want it to be.

It wouldn't be impossible, and yes, it WOULD require players learn to Bard again at the most, but a happy middleground wouldn't be too bad, would it?

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"Bloodletter now has 5 charges. Bards do not gain charges out of combat. While Wanderer's Minuet is active, all charges are consumed on use." Make it like a barrage type ability or something where it just isn't wasted.

I can't speak for WM, but GB is fine. When it first came out it wasn't, because the damage with it on and with it off was virtually the same and we were just being hindered for no reason. Now it's actually worth using.

If I had to pick a problem with MCH, it's our reliance on Drg for the 10% piercing damage debuff because we can't do it ourselves. It's like 100 does difference without it.

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Originally Posted by bideogames

i heard if you say "rework wanderer's minuet" three times while looking at a mirror, yoship appears

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Originally Posted by Delsai

Tried it didn't work. Is it currently broken or require a cast time?

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You have to say it in Japanese, Yoshi's English isn't that good.

Bards are fine with Minuet. All that needs to be done now is giving an additional effect to the 'River of Blood' trait I think.

River of Blood: When Wanderer's Minuet active, Bloodletter/Rain of Death will now increase in potency (only two times) when not on cooldown and are reset by either Venomous Bite or Windbite.

I'd like to see additional enhancement's to a few other things as well when Minuet is up (allowing Barrage to make a single target weaponskill hit up to 4x, Sidewinder having a possible third potency increase through use of Flaming Arrow), but I'll just stop at the River of Blood suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Nibiria

I like GB now that stance dancing is possible, makes it more interactive than just "set and forget."

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I kinda thought that at first. Then I realized I was just happy to leave the stance. While I think there's some gameplay issues with it(Overwritting slug shot procs because of the tiny window to catch them. Yes, bards have it worse), if we put that aside all the cast time moves are puny. If you're going to sit and cast you should expect some big numbers. But instead it's your weak moves that get the casts, while the heavy hitters are still instant. So when you're spamming split shot you feel weak AND slow.

I don't think bard and machinist need a mobility deterrent with the numbers they're putting out(And ignoring that wm and gauss aren't really a movement deterrents since they're so easy to swap on and off and in mchs case you're mobile even if you stay in it with procs and feint), but if we're keeping that mindset something like blackmages circle seems more appropriate. Not a straight rip off, but something along those lines. But the cast bars need to go.

Playing both job, i can say GB is fine for MCH. Only problem with MCH is the RNG part, which can be a killer.

WM on the other side feels really weird. Something is wrong with it and BRD gameplay is now really broken.

MCH can still use OGCD because of the instant cast with proc/amunition but for BRD its not ogcd friendly. From my point of view, there is small things to fix:

BRD: empyreal arrow should be instant cast (like gauss round for MCH). with instant empyreal, BRD would gain some freedom to use ogcd skills.

MCH: remove the RNG part and make the 1/2/3 combo a real combo like other jobs have! Give amunition some specifics effects like buff/debuff.

This would makes these two jobs a lot more enjoyable!

Make Gauss and WM a passive skill. Stand still for 2 seconds --> your damage bonus kicks in. move--> damage bonus gone

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

Make Gauss and WM a passive skill. Stand still for 2 seconds --> your damage bonus kicks in. move--> damage bonus gone

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I remember Warrior having this ability waaaay back in 1.0 They were designed to get buffs for the longer you didn't move. It was a stupid design for a melee. I don't think it's a great idea for any class when it could lead to some instances where it is no longer viable to bring those classes due to needing to move often and thus bringing their dps down to such a level where completing content with those jobs becomes more difficult.

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Originally Posted by Firepower

I remember Warrior having this ability waaaay back in 1.0 They were designed to get buffs for the longer you didn't move. It was a stupid design for a melee. I don't think it's a great idea for any class when it could lead to some instances where it is no longer viable to bring those classes due to needing to move often and thus bringing their dps down to such a level where completing content with those jobs becomes more difficult.

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they already brought that in... (blackmage with enochian)

I like GB on MCH, can't say anything for BRD as I don't play it.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I find them fun. The cast time isn't that long.

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Agreed. the cast times (for BRD at least) are short enough that you still have time to fit in an oGCD ability without clipping your GCD time.

A lot of the changes in Heavensward for DPS jobs aren't "fun" changes. DRG got random positionals and timer juggling. BLM got timer juggling just to cast their highest tier ice / fire spells (which they always had access to pre-HW) and even more of an incentive to stand still. BRD got cast times for who knows what reason? MCH was going to have them, so bard has to as well. MNK and NIN got some quality of life changes, but MNK's buffs are a carpal tunnel annoyance and NIN still has its underlying mudra lag problem.

I think the only DPS job I can say 100% improved was Summoner because it filled downtime with some useful things to do in HW. I could understand making MCH a new ranged job with cast times, but doing it to bard too? To change the way it fundamentally plays? We've ended up with two physical ranged DPS jobs that provide TP/MP recovery that have a stance that forces cast times. Too much job homogenization going on. MCH and BRD mainly differ in the MCH being more bursty and the BRD being more of a sustained DPS job.

I don't play bard and MCH is only lvl 32 but I'm getting the general idea on why people hate the cast timers on physical DPS which is kinda a bad design one big buff or weapon skill I can understand a cast timer sure but every one with a cast timer and you lose auto attack that seams kinda pointless even if you get a buff to your damage.

Here's my suggestion because people these ability's are going to stay but they could be reworked like this.

Remove the cast timer give back auto attack but don't let it be boosted by WM or GB and instead to balance increase every weapon skill recast time by 2-3 times what it is while in this effect.

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Originally Posted by Firepower

I remember Warrior having this ability waaaay back in 1.0 They were designed to get buffs for the longer you didn't move. It was a stupid design for a melee. I don't think it's a great idea for any class when it could lead to some instances where it is no longer viable to bring those classes due to needing to move often and thus bringing their dps down to such a level where completing content with those jobs becomes more difficult.

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Ah yes, Steadfast. If you stayed still for X seconds you attacks become frontal cone attacks. This was the old paradigm for marauders, since Tanaka-era FFXIV wanted them to be more for hitting multiple targets while lancers and gladiators were more single-target.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I think the only DPS job I can say 100% improved was Summoner because it filled downtime with some useful things to do in HW. I could understand making MCH a new ranged job with cast times, but doing it to bard too? To change the way it fundamentally plays? We've ended up with two physical ranged DPS jobs that provide TP/MP recovery that have a stance that forces cast times. Too much job homogenization going on. MCH and BRD mainly differ in the MCH being more bursty and the BRD being more of a sustained DPS job.

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Agreed. The difference between BRd and MCH could have been accentuated if MCH had been designed from the ground up with cast times where appropriate and BRD's gameplay had been built upon instead of outright changed. No matter how you look at it, Gauss Barrel and Wanderer's Minuet are not good ideas, even if MCH is designed with it mind while it was forced upon BRD.

Actually the original design for lancer was for them to hit multiple stuff in a line before them im pretty sure if you look you can find the old intended role positions for full party's and such on google images.