The new mode is...rather dull as a healer.

With the removal of fatal fall damage from push backs due to the Seize map design it's pretty much impossible for healers to get kills in the new mode. Also, because it's not uncommon for skirmishes to be small and sometimes infrequent there's not a whole lot to actually HEAL, either. My only excitement literally comes from baiting a bunch of people into chasing me, which as an instant-cast AST still doesn't really make me feel THAT worried (lol).

Am I approaching Seize incorrectly as a healer? Frankly, its not uncommon to see most alliances solo heal each party, and sometimes there are a few that roll multiple DRKs/WARs and just don't take a healer. I quite enjoyed WHM in Slaughter, but am starting to get a bit resentful at feeling forced to heal every Seize because I'm one of the only people in the alliance with a 60 healer. I'd much rather SMN, which is infinitely more exciting to me, but can only do so if my static rolls a PVP premade (where I and our SCH trade off healing every few matches).

How can I/SE make the Seize map less of a snoozefest for healers?

You can still easily get kills during fights and kicking people off the cliffs, there are 3 points on the beach that are insta kill to 90% hp enemies

If you are trying to get more than 4 kills a match then play as something else, healers are roamers and cc machines

In my experience, no/few heals is very detrimental for your team. Unless you get lucky with spawns. This is true for all frontlines. And who cares about kills when you heal. Oh yeah, the achievement. Well I dont care about that, but... yeah whatever.

Perhaps my teams are just very good? We always roll only one healer in our party with minimal casualties. Two healers per party strikes me as deadweight.

I'm not trying to get "4+ kills a match", I'm trying to either a.) do more than 100k healing per match, and b.) get at least ONE kill per, like I used to get in Slaughter.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Perhaps my teams are just very good? We always roll only one healer in our party with minimal casualties. Two healers per party strikes me as deadweight.

I'm not trying to get "4+ kills a match", I'm trying to either a.) do more than 100k healing per match, and b.) get at least ONE kill per, like I used to get in Slaughter.

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100k healing and 1 kill a match is...extremely low...

How much damage are you taking aswell, and how many caps?

2 healers per party allows for bad healers to not die instantly, or to let one healer roam for free points

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

100k healing and 1 kill a match is...extremely low...

How much damage are you taking aswell, and how many caps?

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I can't really answer as to how much damage I take, but I know it's close to nil unless I get walled off from my group and get a bunch of people chasing me (in which case instant Noct shield and/or Lightspeed is more than enough to keep me up until I rejoin my pack). Maybe other teams are just bad but I'm largely ignored by everyone but SMNs and tanks.

My "occupations" at the end of a match are about two on average.

I personally enjoy healing Frontlines, albeit I feel damaging is rather pointless at 60, I don't even see why a killing blow would matter when you only contribute 2% if lucky of the persons health pool, not including cliff kills. I tend to CC, barrier up and buff dps in my alliance so they can get battle high and ensure our defence stays strong for the inevitable A/S ranks during the match. If you buddy up with a good DPS it can be really fun, also helping other Alliances who don't have healers feels game changing.

As for what could be improved, a tweaked Cleric stance for PvP would be nice (longer lockout so its easier to punish or something), or healer specific rewards would be awesome. :)

Astrologians are the best roamers, so if you want to try something different then just solo roam and get to the nodes before they spawn

Its odd that you rarely take damage, but its not exactly a game mode with skilled players, but i still cant fathom how you only aim to get 100k healing and you stick with your group, i get double that by just roaming

...maybe I need to try this roaming thing instead of staying with the group. Any particular techniques/tricks to that?

Healing probably feels so boring because people are so passive in seize and never want to fight. People would rather the entire alliance guard a B rank that spawned 2ft from their base, while As have spawned in the middle/on the opposing team's side. No one is going for your measly B rank out in the boonies near your base. Go take advantage of the two opposing most likely fighting for the better nodes. It's hilarious when people afk at uncontested B ranks, and claim they carried the team.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

Healing probably feels so boring because people are so passive in seize and never want to fight. People would rather the entire alliance guard a B rank that spawned 2ft from their base, while As have spawned in the middle/on the opposing team's side. No one is going for your measly B rank out in the boonies near your base. Go take advantage of the two opposing most likely fighting for the better nodes. It's hilarious when people afk at uncontested B ranks, and claim they carried the team.

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I would also question what GC the OP is in. In Flames, well yeah, it's going to be boring most of the time. Maelstrom (My GC) gets this sometimes... we're just camping on nodes, any enemies that stray near are dealt with swiftly and there's little to no incoming damage.

In any serious fight, though, one healer is not enough for a party (even if the enemy does not target or CC the healer at all).

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I would also question what GC the OP is in. In Flames, well yeah, it's going to be boring most of the time. Maelstrom (My GC) gets this sometimes... we're just camping on nodes, any enemies that stray near are dealt with swiftly and there's little to no incoming damage.

In any serious fight, though, one healer is not enough for a party (even if the enemy does not target or CC the healer at all).

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I'm Primal Adders.

It honestly seems like always rolling with a premade might be my issue, though. Our group is so coordinated and focused that people who so much as TARGET me are dead in an instant, Purifies are actually used on me if mine is on CD, and they prioritize objectives over pointless skirmishing (though we'll happily bleed a first-place GC if we're running a close second on points). Pug groups usually require me to do more healing, but also have a muuuuch lower win ratio, so there's that.

My record for last week in our premade was 11-2-0. Overall ranking was 11-4-4, but 3 of the third places were on the day Seize came out and people just tooled around doing whatever.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

...maybe I need to try this roaming thing instead of staying with the group. Any particular techniques/tricks to that?

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Step 1:
Have the map open at all times, you can see where high/fever enemies are at all times and you can also see enemies that your team has vision of, pretty easy to avoid them

Step 2:
Pay attention to what nodes spawn and when, when one node despawns it wont respawn where it was, it also will almost never respawn on the previous set of nodes on the wave before it spawned. Now you have a small selection of nodes to go to and you have 30 seconds to get there before it spawns

Step 3:
Get accused of hacking by your own teammates because they cant understand simple mechanics, because shock horror 99% of players who think FL is actual pvp are absolute trash and have no real brain function


Bonus Step:
Have HQ stun potions, drink them if a ninja/monk/tank is eyeing you up, it takes 1 second off of EACH individual stun that lands on you, provided its not a paladin you now have immunity after 2 stuns instead of 3

Bonus Step 2:
Tell your team that killing people gives your team 5 points, get reported for giving false information out, even though its not false information

...your own alliances sound like more of a threat than the enemy GCs, C'eve. @__@

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I'm Primal Adders.

It honestly seems like always rolling with a premade might be my issue, though. Our group is so coordinated and focused that people who so much as TARGET me are dead in an instant, Purifies are actually used on me if mine is on CD, and they prioritize objectives over pointless skirmishing (though we'll happily bleed a first-place GC if we're running a close second on points). Pug groups usually require me to do more healing, but also have a muuuuch lower win ratio, so there's that.

My record for last week in our premade was 11-2-0. Overall ranking was 11-4-4, but 3 of the third places were on the day Seize came out and people just tooled around doing whatever.

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Yep, premades will always do much much better than randoms (Adders usually have the highest loss rate, although maybe Primal is different...). Wish I had a premade to roll with but usually the best I can do is a DPS friend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

Step 1:
Have the map open at all times, you can see where high/fever enemies are at all times and you can also see enemies that your team has vision of, pretty easy to avoid them

Step 2:
Pay attention to what nodes spawn and when, when one node despawns it wont respawn where it was, it also will almost never respawn on the previous set of nodes on the wave before it spawned. Now you have a small selection of nodes to go to and you have 30 seconds to get there before it spawns

Step 3:
Get accused of hacking by your own teammates because they cant understand simple mechanics, because shock horror 99% of players who think FL is actual pvp are absolute trash and have no real brain function


Bonus Step:
Have HQ stun potions, drink them if a ninja/monk/tank is eyeing you up, it takes 1 second off of EACH individual stun that lands on you, provided its not a paladin you now have immunity after 2 stuns instead of 3

Bonus Step 2:
Tell your team that killing people gives your team 5 points, get reported for giving false information out, even though its not false information

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...I am definitely going to check out those potions

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

...your own alliances sound like more of a threat than the enemy GCs, C'eve. @__@

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Honestly, they are. Unlike PvE, all the pressure is gone from tanks and it's all on healers. You can be alternating stun-silence locked with 3 people beating on you, and you'll get raged at and potentially kicked (fortunately in combat status prevents this most of the time) for not healing by some DPS that went from full to zero in less time than a cure cast.

Level 60 is even more fun because now 1 tank or DPS can do as much spike damage as it used to take 3 people to do... and melee LB hasn't gone anywhere.

Grab some Vitality rightside gear and take a more active role in combat. A full set of i150+ Vitality gear boosts your health from 9500 to 12800 or so, which lets you take way more risks & survive more than even tanks can.

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Originally Posted by Kyani

Grab some Vitality rightside gear and take a more active role in combat. A full set of i150+ Vitality gear boosts your health from 9500 to 12800 or so, which lets you take way more risks & survive more than even tanks can.

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Personally... I've been thinking about it. The biggest motivator would actually be surviving melee LBs for me, though OP didn't seem to have that problem.

...my concern is healing power, it can already be hard to keep people up with chaincasted cure IIs. On the other hand, can't do anything if I'm dead...

Go ahead and use vit accessories. If you healing power isnt enough with full tank accessories on the right side to keep someone alive, it wouldnt be enough with full mind aswell, hthe player would just live a second longer.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

all the pressure is gone from tanks and it's all on healers. You can be alternating stun-silence locked with 3 people beating on you, and you'll get raged at and potentially kicked (fortunately in combat status prevents this most of the time) for not healing by some DPS that went from full to zero in less time than a cure cast.

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http://newnownext.mtvnimages.com/201...ina-preach.gif

Amen. "I was right next to you, have battle high, and you let me die! What I didn't notice was that you had 3 people beating on you and you were a little busy staying alive. Honestly, you should have been healing me! You're a healer. Heal!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

...your own alliances sound like more of a threat than the enemy GCs, C'eve. @__@

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Its the reason why I don't nearly do as much FL as others, its sometimes laughably easy to score a good chunk of the points yourself, but having to deal with the standard cesspit of players with no knowledge of the mode/mechanics/their class and who are also generally the loudest voices is extremely taxing and its just not fun

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyani

Grab some Vitality rightside gear and take a more active role in combat. A full set of i150+ Vitality gear boosts your health from 9500 to 12800 or so, which lets you take way more risks & survive more than even tanks can.

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Depends on the class really, there are 2 crit det vitality accessories (i180 law earrings and the i148 necklace), i'd probably throw in the vit/crit/parry accessory and with the 35 bonus vit for white mage (along with the 12 mind and vit from the pvp attributes)

For Astrologian, honestly i wouldnt bother with the parry accessory or vit necklace, the shield scaling is good enough that just the earrings are sufficient in my opinion

I have no experience whatsoever with scholar, it doesnt interest me to lvl another class to 60 :P

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

It honestly seems like always rolling with a premade might be my issue, though. Our group is so coordinated and focused that people who so much as TARGET me are dead in an instant, Purifies are actually used on me if mine is on CD, and they prioritize objectives over pointless skirmishing (though we'll happily bleed a first-place GC if we're running a close second on points). Pug groups usually require me to do more healing, but also have a muuuuch lower win ratio, so there's that.

My record for last week in our premade was 11-2-0. Overall ranking was 11-4-4, but 3 of the third places were on the day Seize came out and people just tooled around doing whatever.

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Sounds like your just way to boss for sieze m8. Retire your Adders jersey in idyllshire for all to see.

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Originally Posted by DenariusJay

Sounds like your just way to boss for sieze m8. Retire your Adders jersey in idyllshire for all to see.

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Yeah, probably lol. Seize is the pinnacle of PVP content, after all; I surely have nothing left to aspire to now.

Or maybe we could, y'know, acknowledge that with the removal of Cleric Stance that skilled healers are finding healing a bore in Seize unless their group is absolutely, inalterably, utterly ATROCIOUS?

Even if you don't agree, at least contribute something meaningful, please, as several others have done in this thread. In fact, C'eve, we liked the idea of a roaming split, so we might try that in some matches tonight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

skilled healers are finding healing a bore in Seize unless their group is absolutely, inalterably, utterly ATROCIOUS?

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Doesn't need to be atrocious, just needs to be randoms. Try queuing solo.

Or you need to be fighting a group at a similar level, which happens much more often with randoms and only very rarely with premades. When you've got 2 party members getting focused and 2 sets of SMN dots on nearly everyone, things get... 'interesting'. Throw in 1 or 2 people very interested and trying very hard to assassinate you.

But if you're never clashing with any other large groups you won't see that, of course. But sitting around on points is boring for everyone, I think...

All that said C'eve has been making me think I would enjoy the Den a lot more... but a lot of the new rewards are with Seal Rock achievements, or old Frontlines rewards I haven't gotten yet... :/

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Originally Posted by Knoahl

or healer specific rewards would be awesome. :)

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I would love for this to happen. I'm not a healer but if my healing buddies got a bonus every time they healed me up to max or something. . . ahh the dream

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

I would love for this to happen. I'm not a healer but if my healing buddies got a bonus every time they healed me up to max or something. . . ahh the dream

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You called? <3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Doesn't need to be atrocious, just needs to be randoms. Try queuing solo.

Or you need to be fighting a group at a similar level, which happens much more often with randoms and only very rarely with premades. When you've got 2 party members getting focused and 2 sets of SMN dots on nearly everyone, things get... 'interesting'. Throw in 1 or 2 people very interested and trying very hard to assassinate you.

But if you're never clashing with any other large groups you won't see that, of course. But sitting around on points is boring for everyone, I think...

All that said C'eve has been making me think I would enjoy the Den a lot more... but a lot of the new rewards are with Seal Rock achievements, or old Frontlines rewards I haven't gotten yet... :/

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I tried as you suggested and queued for a few matches this evening solo. Here was the latest result:

http://i.imgur.com/cgZv9dR.jpg?1

As you can see, the match was pretty close, and the screen I included DID include my two co-healers in my party, who...did not perform so well, it seems. It was definitely more exciting than my usual premade matches, but it still wasn't as fun as being a tank or DPS in the thick of things, or trying to heal through being constantly double-teamed (as was the norm for Primal Adders during 72 Slaughter).

For the record, I don't think I'm "pro" or anything. I just think that while AST is really tanky, and that will have merits in things like Den, that it doesn't play well in this new mode. I think it wouldn't be so bad if healers got a few healer-only PVP DPS actions that scaled off their MND rather than their INT... They'll still have SOME offensive options, but on a cooldown so you don't get a repeat of the 8 WHM Holylol train that used to plague Secure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I tried as you suggested and queued for a few matches this evening solo. Here was the latest result:

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Side note, I am a Primal Immortal Flame who is offline doing other shit at the moment and it's nice to see I'm clearly not missing anything. :P

Well, I tried with fending accessories last night. The loss in healing power was noticeable, but not as bad as I was worried it might be. Still plenty to heal people, generally. And a lot more survivability. Got melee LB'd, just kept on healing.

...Although last night was kind of weird in general. We had ~2 healers per party, my party's members were sticking together and focusing DPS that went after me, and I got melee LB'd only once. Didn't even have a chance to use those shiny new Stun Ward potions I picked up. Very weird. But I could get used to this if it happens regularly...

I can confirm having all i170+ vit accessories as a healer is a legit
build in sieze lol. I can go rambo into a 5 man fray and possiby tank about 5-7 ppl as an ast.
Raw destruction hits me for 9.4k which is like lol i have 13.5k hp.
Deathflares tickle gg smn.
I manderville dance to provoke dumb ppl into chasing me and glady get ccd to get LB and NOT DIE. I do that for a good minute or 2 as i use my terrain to my advantage and do MLG weaving.
I usualy average about 100-250k damage received.
A tanky noct ast is near unkillable if they know how to sustain.
I can just rambo in and come back to my group and be like hey lol.
Lightspeed + blizzard = binds for everyone! Or
Lightspeed + stella = get sniped etc

Sch imo is by far the weakest healer in sieze. They get rekt so hard i cringe everytime i see one on my team. Fairy dies -> gets Ccd -> dead. Get good schs plz

Whm r pretty nice cuz they r good at aoe healing, have holy etc.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

snip

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Your sig is the actual reason I keep cringe when play as healer in all mode of frontline.

So far I've only been able to play my PLD in Seize and I can't wait to get my healer up to 60. The only way to reliably push is with good heals. I try to help out with Convalescence, but I can only get two or three off at a time. I see half my alliance at half health and can't do anything to fix it, other than pop a couple of protection buffs.