Since protect/stoneskin are now baseline...

Can the other healers get super virus as well?

Seems like an obvious change, considering its invaluable utility.

Stoneskin isn't the same across classes, unless they added a trait to AST/SCH for the same damage prevention as WHM

They nerfed WHM Stoneskin to 10% in 3.0. Paladins Protect and Stoneskin are now exactly the same as a Whm's. If someone gets raised, Pld can take the time to rebuff them with Protect and Stoneskin mid-fight now. (^_^)

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

Stoneskin isn't the same across classes, unless they added a trait to AST/SCH for the same damage prevention as WHM

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They took away the 18% from WHM and made it a flat 10% for all. WHM just gets a slightly quicker cast with it now.

Matehus, WHM had their dmg reduction trait removed. All they get is a 2.5 second stoneskin instead of a 3 second cast. It' 10% no matter who casts it. Same as protect. Both Phys and MDef no matter whoc asts it

Well that's a surprise... of all things there hasn't been an outcry on WHM Stoneskin nerf, yet about every single other change has been discussed for every other other job/class. I even went over to the Healer Forums and went as far back as beginning of June. Nothing. I don't play WHM, and the people I do know that play WHM never even mentioned this. What a covert nerf.

There have been several threads on it, but AST threads practically drown out everything else here.

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

Well that's a surprise... of all things there hasn't been an outcry on WHM Stoneskin nerf, yet about every single other change has been discussed for every other other job/class. I even went over to the Healer Forums and went as far back as beginning of June. Nothing. I don't play WHM, and the people I do know that play WHM never even mentioned this. What a covert nerf.

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A few WHM abilities got nerfed, but they're far outweighed by the tools we were given in HW. WHM is extremely strong right now even with Stoneskin being completely useless.

Would everyone getting Super Virus just make AST even less likely to be brought along?

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

Well that's a surprise... of all things there hasn't been an outcry on WHM Stoneskin nerf, yet about every single other change has been discussed for every other other job/class. I even went over to the Healer Forums and went as far back as beginning of June. Nothing. I don't play WHM, and the people I do know that play WHM never even mentioned this. What a covert nerf.

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There's a bit more discussion about it on the Japanese Healer forum. They also managed to compact all of their 'holy crap AST sucks' into one big thread.

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Originally Posted by Kietsu

There's a bit more discussion about it on the Japanese Healer forum. They also managed to compact all of their 'holy crap AST sucks' into one big thread.

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they do that.

JP is a lot tidier than us americans.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Would everyone getting Super Virus just make AST even less likely to be brought along?

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You DO realize super virus comes from SCH/SMN...Right?

What we should really be complaining about is why the heck the other two healers can't cross-class Stoneskin II.

Added to game to make buffing pre-fights easier; given to WHM because of traits.

Remove WHM 18% trait.

Stoneskin II still WHM only.

Just why?

Yeah agreed, esp since SS2 was said to be a QoL thing... Ok so where's our QoL when there's no WHM present (or worse, a WHM who doesn't seem to realize they have SS2 and they SS everybody one at a time but you know if you say anything ppl will just get all defensive about it) and we have to cast one person at a time. I just do tanks, healers, and if there's time, casters to help prevent spell interruption. I have no more room for additional cross class skills on SCH but SS could be one skill to do party AOE if out of combat, and single target if caster or person it's cast on is in combat.

They should add SS2 to all healers as their own qol skill not even bother with cross classing it.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

They should add SS2 to all healers as their own qol skill not even bother with cross classing it.

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No, they should just give White Mage's their graniteskin back instead of this absolutely useless speed trait that no one cares about. There's been plenty of people complaining about the SS changes before now, but they've been drowned out with all the other "my job is ruined" posts.

Right now, Stoneskin isn't really worth the MP cost. Only worth casting as a preventative before a fight and nothing else. Previously it at least had the advantage of at least being more useful in certain instances.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No, they should just give White Mage's their graniteskin back instead of this absolutely useless speed trait that no one cares about. There's been plenty of people complaining about the SS changes before now, but they've been drowned out with all the other "my job is ruined" posts.

Right now, Stoneskin isn't really worth the MP cost. Only worth casting as a preventative before a fight and nothing else. Previously it at least had the advantage of at least being more useful in certain instances.

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I wouldn't mind having graniteskin back.

Or just make the buffed Graniteskin version default.

While they are at it. Having it at a lower level would be nice. Other healers having to grind CNJ to Lv 34 is a bit much IMHO.

No, Super Virus only exclusive for ACN only, no more.

Keep in mind Yoshida wanted to remove Stoneskin when they made the transition from 1.0 to 2.0. I sort of see why, and while heal output does seem to outstrip Stoneskin in the middle of a fight it's still fairly useful (granted, I'm a PLD, and I can get out more Stoneskins than I can Clemencies with my MP bar).

This said, I don't think you guys want Stoneskin II made available to other healers. You'd be giving up one of your cross class slots to get it (remember that Stoneskin II is a separate skill).

I think people missing the point here. Have you seen the hp gain on the tanks with 3.0? That stoneskin trait on whm is quite OP with 21k HP tanks, so if they give that back then pls give lustrate back it's 25% heal because that's even more OP. Super virus on the other hand isn't as OP and has a long CD thanks to antibodies.

Please don't forget that there are still 2.x players out there. It's bad enough that their stoneskin got nerfed but if it was removed that would be terrible. It might not be as useful for us at i200+ but at i40 it's still darn excellent.

The developers are going to be extra careful going forward that any changes for 3.x & 4.x players don't completely imbalance, or ruin, the game for 2.x. It's highly unlikely they will retire 2.x as it's an essential storyline so won't implement "instant lvl50" akin to other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

I think people missing the point here. Have you seen the hp gain on the tanks with 3.0? That stoneskin trait on whm is quite OP with 21k HP tanks, so if they give that back then pls give lustrate back it's 25% heal because that's even more OP. Super virus on the other hand isn't as OP and has a long CD thanks to antibodies.

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The monster damage scaled with our health increase too, don't forget. I suppose if you're using stoneskin in non level synced lvl 50 duties it might be worth it? But in that case you're going to faceroll the content anyway.

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Originally Posted by Renault

You DO realize super virus comes from SCH/SMN...Right?

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You DO realise ast cant cross class virus?

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Originally Posted by Selli

What we should really be complaining about is why the heck the other two healers can't cross-class Stoneskin II.

Added to game to make buffing pre-fights easier; given to WHM because of traits.

Remove WHM 18% trait.

Stoneskin II still WHM only.

Just why?

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Because Stoneskin II absorb 18% of the max HP as damage, not only 10% (or my skill info text is wrong). The stronger skill to the original class, the weaker skill to the other classes.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Because Stoneskin II absorb 18% of the max HP as damage, not only 10% (or my skill info text is wrong). The stronger skill to the original class, the weaker skill to the other classes.

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You missed the update then. All stoneskins are now 10%.

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

Well that's a surprise... of all things there hasn't been an outcry on WHM Stoneskin nerf, yet about every single other change has been discussed for every other other job/class. I even went over to the Healer Forums and went as far back as beginning of June. Nothing. I don't play WHM, and the people I do know that play WHM never even mentioned this. What a covert nerf.

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Because stoneskin's change wasn't detrimental to the job's ability to perform its primary role, which is healing.

Unfortunately, from what I've seen from at least one AST - it forces them to cast it more often.

They already justified that with the bad scaling of Eos heal at lv60 from SCH, which heals now ~35% less compared to 2.x. So both got nerfed and no reason to give WHM super virus. And the Eos nerf weights much more than the 8% of Stonskin imo.

Don't Astrologian's have Disable to balance them not being able to use Virus/ACN skills?

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Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45

Don't Astrologian's have Disable to balance them not being able to use Virus/ACN skills?

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Virus and E4E are magnitudes better than Disable. Disable is only good for one attack, whereas Virus and E4E mitigate for a period of time.

I guess the good thing about Disable is with Virus, someone else can cast it at a really stupid time (some people even use it as part of an opener in a long duration fight where the really really big hits come further into the fight than the first few seconds, and reuse whenever it comes off cooldown). "/p Casting Eye for Eye on <tt>/Virus on <t>!/Hey look at meeee!" So at least there is that, the healer gets to decide what ability to apply the damage reduction to, which is normally one of those long slow cast bar ones.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Virus and E4E are magnitudes better than Disable. Disable is only good for one attack, whereas Virus and E4E mitigate for a period of time.

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However disable can be used in-lieu, or even on-top of virus or even the anti-body if there is an arcanist in the party. It's really meant for cast bar tank busters. Like Hypercompressed Plasma (Alex Savage 1).

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

Well that's a surprise... of all things there hasn't been an outcry on WHM Stoneskin nerf, yet about every single other change has been discussed for every other other job/class. I even went over to the Healer Forums and went as far back as beginning of June. Nothing. I don't play WHM, and the people I do know that play WHM never even mentioned this. What a covert nerf.

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I wouldn't call it a ninja nerf. It was in the patch notes, and if I recall correctly a dev posted about it before it happened. All the WHMs I know (in game) didn't care. With all the new skills they got WHMs are beast right now. They're in a really good place.

I'd say it's a mistake to call that 10% Stoneskin worthless, either. A shield is a shield, and it's great for shoring up weakened characters, preparing for big hits, and so on and so forth. The replacement trait WHM got makes it even easier to use as a preventative measure. The loss of that 8% is saddening, but Stoneskin is still worth casting - as should be obvious, as SCH and PLD frequently made good use of it in spite of it being the "weak" version.

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Originally Posted by Elim

I wouldn't call it a ninja nerf. It was in the patch notes, and if I recall correctly a dev posted about it before it happened. All the WHMs I know (in game) didn't care. With all the new skills they got WHMs are beast right now. They're in a really good place.

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It wasn't in the pre-release patchnotes, only the full ones. AFAIK no dev ever posted on that (I watch the tracker pretty closely, although it's not impossible I missed it).

It was pretty ninja. We knew the protect change was coming and that got discussed a lot. Stoneskin nerf was a happy little present from SE we found just before the servers came back up.

I actually get a bit annoyed when SCHs use stoneskin in casual content and barely touch Adlo for some reason. There is only limited utility for them to use SS. My favorite is when you have two healers scrambling to cast pre-pull in instances like Bismarck EX. It's a waste, unless you put up Succor too as they all will break once the island gets hit in the pull. To negate what? Chump change damage. Only the tanks end up keeping them intact so why bother.

I was running WAR in the vault the other day and this one just kept using SS on every pull. I'm like is this a WHM trapped in a SCH body or something? It was rare to see an Adlo. It wasn't needed either since I use cooldowns often, but if it gives someone a peace of mind.

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Originally Posted by technole

barely touch Adlo for some reason.

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where my adlos at? seriously lately i find this is a trend of spam physick, lustrate but never adlos =[

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

of all things there hasn't been an outcry on WHM Stoneskin nerf

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Well, it kinda gets upstaged by the Holy nerf, IMO ^_~

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

I guess the good thing about Disable is with Virus, someone else can cast it at a really stupid time

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I think my pet peeve is when you have WHM/BLM using Virus on bosses who primarily do magic damage... when there's a SCH/SMN in the party -_-

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This said, I don't think you guys want Stoneskin II made available to other healers. You'd be giving up one of your cross class slots to get it (remember that Stoneskin II is a separate skill).

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Well, for me it wouldn't be that big an issue to exchange Aero for SSII *shrugs*

(As a whole, I wish we had more cross class skills to pick from... My fifth cross class for SMN was, for a long time, Triangulate. Just because I saw about as much point to that as to most other alternatives I had.)

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

where my adlos at? seriously lately i find this is a trend of spam physick, lustrate but never adlos =[

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If that is the case then they are bad. I adlo before each fight and put it back on as often as my mp allows. I only ever use lust when things are real bad, otherwise my big heal is emergency tactics adlo because of the cast time. (Then again using a swiftcast for that and getting a crit while healing a WAR is op as hell, 9.5k heals ftw)

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Originally Posted by MisterLucie

A few WHM abilities got nerfed, but they're far outweighed by the tools we were given in HW. WHM is extremely strong right now even with Stoneskin being completely useless.

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of course Stoneskin 10% on war with 22k hp+ is totally useless.