[Dev11232] Why is there still a cap?

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[dev1132] Several adjustments have been made to overall experience point rewards and the current party bonus algorithm.
The following are used to calculate experience point rewards:

Level-based EXP

The general rule for calculating experience point awards is to divide the amount of experience needed to level up by the number of encounters the current level* is intended to last. The amount of EXP yielded increases proportional to character level.
* The level used in this calculation is either the player's or the enemy's, whichever is
lower.

Difference Between Player and Enemy Levels

Higher level enemies will yield more EXP, while lower level enemies will yield less. This revision will not greatly affect the amount of EXP obtainable. However, a cap will be imposed upon the bonus awarded to players for defeating higher level enemies.

Party Size

Each additional member in the party reduces the amount of experience points yielded. Although the reduction is greater than before, it will be offset by the bonuses granted by EXP chains and linking.

Enemy Type

As the variance in strength between enemies has been reduced (see below), enemy type will not influence EXP yield.
* The exception to the above is those enemies deemed extremely weak or strong.

Link Bonus (see below)

Experience point bonuses are now rewarded for defeating enemies which appear together with the initial target.

EXP Chain (see below)

Defeating enemies in quick succession will now earn players experience point bonuses.
Guardian's Aspect
Invoking Guardian's Aspect when activating a levequest will grant players an experience point bonus upon quest completion.
Gear
There are several pieces of low-level gear which grant their wearers experience point bonuses.

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I didn't wana bump my old topic about the exp cap. While this is a GREAT direction they're going, their wording makes to sound like the cap is still gonna be too strong for players to see leveling on big mobs as a viable option especially with the oncoming exp chains which are idiotic to place in the game because this will only further entice people to kill raptors for hours on in.

I think the cap should just be completely lifted and the exp should be equated by the average levels in the group and if someone is well beyond the average, then the exp is strongly penalized.

Fix normal skilling parties before introducing heavily strategic events like ifrit and batraal

The two things aren't related.
Btw we should see how this cap is hight before making a complain

I'm more concerned about the 10 second chain 5+ time limit to be honest. I thought they were moving in the direction of longer fights that require strategy. 10 seconds between kills is incredibly fast and currently impossible for the most part (this could change due to enemy placement and respawn timer adjustments in 1.19). Still, 10 seconds is ridiculous.

They mentioned that soloing an enemy of equal level should take about 45 seconds for an average player and ~30 seconds for a skilled player. It would only make sense that the same should be true for an 8 man party killing mobs ~10 levels above their average level, but clearly this isn't the case.

Regardless, I think we're basically interested in the same thing, just looking at it from different angles, higher rewards in accordance with the amount of skill involved.

PS: All, or at least most mobs will reward the same SP after the patch, so I doubt Raptors will be the only feasible mobs to grind on.

One word:

Balance.

Caps are in place in every MMO to date -- some are higher than others, some MMOs take 10s of millions of exp per next level, thus those caps are higher.

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I'm more concerned about the 10 second chain 5+ time limit to be honest.

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If you've played FFXI before and ever done Merit parties back in the day you'll know this 10 seconds isn't as short as it may seem initially. Basically chain 4 is well enough because if there's enough mobs you'll chain endlessly, usually chain 5+ is when your party has a momentum going and you just begin plowing through enemies.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

If you've played FFXI before and ever done Merit parties back in the day you'll know this 10 seconds isn't as short as it may seem initially. Basically chain 4 is well enough because if there's enough mobs you'll chain endlessly, usually chain 5+ is when your party has a momentum going and you just begin plowing through enemies.

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Even FFXI's limit for chain 5+ was longer than 10 seconds (30 seconds I believe?).

Edit: I'm assuming you mean Colibri parties, not really back in the day but still a thing of the past. Anyways, even colibri kills averaged about 20 seconds each in a good party, the only time I've seen consistent 10 second or faster kills was with K club rangers.

This game combat is much faster tho you can kill 10x the mobs in this game unlike xi

60 seconds at lvl75.

Different game tho

I bet they'll be a bit more closer together in the future perhaps. Needs some monster hp adjustments for that.

Ya, but weren't people complaining how fast mobs die in XIV? Even XI meripo PTs killed the enjoyment for many players.

I thought SE was taking XIV in the direction of old school skillchain parties like we had before AU released. Fights that took coordination, required debuffs, strategies (no matter how simple they were). Anything is better than the spam we're seeing now IMO, and I thought our playerbase agreed on this as well.

I don't remember them saying they were slowing down the fights

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

I thought SE was taking XIV in the direction of old school skillchain parties like we had before AU released. Fights that took coordination, required debuffs, strategies (no matter how simple they were). Anything is better than the spam we're seeing now IMO, and I thought our playerbase agreed on this as well.

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I liked keeping the chain going more than beating a crab for five minutes, sorry.

That wasn't exactly easy to pull off either. Coordination was required, debuffs too unless your party was totally OP. It wasn't brainless and if you losed focus the chain was lost.

I hope that comes back. Mamool Ja are awesome.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I liked keeping the chain going more than beating a crab for five minutes, sorry.

That wasn't exactly easy to pull off either. Coordination was required, debuffs too unless your party was totally OP. It wasn't brainless and if you losed focus the chain was lost.

I hope that comes back. Mamool Ja are awesome.

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Hmm, AU meripo PTs took no skill at all lol. If you weren't getting chain 6+ your party "sucked" lol. (I'm not saying your party sucked, just in general.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy to see exp chains being added. However, I'd prefer my fights to take at least a little bit of strategy, some thinking, quick reflexes (think silena and paralyna), among other things. Overall, I'm 100% FOR exp chains, but the speed that's required, in my opinion, is way too fast.

I'd rather they lengthened the fights themselves while increasing overall exp per kill, resulting in the same exp/hour but giving us more in depth fights.

Edit:

To the OP: Sorry, I didn't mean to derail your thread. I think we're still talking about the same thing, just different ways of achieving it.

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Originally Posted by Mahayana

I didn't wana bump my old topic about the exp cap. While this is a GREAT direction they're going, their wording makes to sound like the cap is still gonna be too strong for players to see leveling on big mobs as a viable option especially with the oncoming exp chains which are idiotic to place in the game because this will only further entice people to kill raptors for hours on in.

I think the cap should just be completely lifted and the exp should be equated by the average levels in the group and if someone is well beyond the average, then the exp is strongly penalized.

Fix normal skilling parties before introducing heavily strategic events like ifrit and batraal

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Raising level cap would be a problem. It would mean new cap equipment = required a certain matter and repair level needed. I leveled whatever gil I had left just so I can repair my gear up to R45. It's so costly it's ridiculous to keep up with the rank equipment needed repairs.

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Originally Posted by Fouluryu

Raising level cap would be a problem. It would mean new cap equipment = required a certain matter and repair level needed. I leveled whatever gil I had left just so I can repair my gear up to R45. It's so costly it's ridiculous to keep up with the rank equipment needed repairs.

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Not lvl cap exp cap .< Meaning he wants more exp from mobs thats higher than 10 ranks

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Hmm, AU meripo PTs took no skill at all lol. If you weren't getting chain 6+ your party "sucked" lol. (I'm not saying your party sucked, just in general.)

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This doesn't make any sense. If meripo PTs took no skill at all, how is it even possible some parties weren't getting chain 6+?

I'm sorry to tell you meripo PTs did take skill to pull off properly, just as much as normal PTs did in the past. Not much, but not less either.

Saying they did not require quick reflexes is quite false, especially if you play offensively (like all the good parties did). Monks sub /war and go fulltime counterstance, Bards are on the ball with repop rotation, melees see an opportunity to throw a SC to the mix, they do it. Also melees switch targets before disengaging the last monster. And so on and so on.

I'd have to agree with the second poster we need to see how these changes effect leveling before we can say "get rid of the XP cap all together"

It's still to early to be thinking of raising the level cap. It'll prolly be at, or after, the PS3 release... so that playerbase doesn't feel as though they are too far behind initially.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Hmm, AU meripo PTs took no skill at all lol. If you weren't getting chain 6+ your party "sucked" lol. (I'm not saying your party sucked, just in general.)

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Not true. I'll agree it didn't take a whole lot of skill to get chain 5+, but there were parties out there that struggled with even that. Meripo's that took skill had a goal of chain 100++. Usually no true 'tank' was involved so the DDs balancing hate, the puller keeping the fast pace by holding multiple mobs in queue while still DD'ing/buffing/debuffing, and the healer(s) keeping everyone up without having an actual tank or pulling hate..

I figured you were pretty experienced in XI from some of your previous posts. This post really confuses me.. because you really should already known that. Screenie of you in a group at chain 200+ (which was an everyday thing for groups that had 'skill'..) or your just talking BS here.

Correct me if I'm wrong but with the new claiming system can't you AoE damage a group of mobs and gain full exp off them? I can see parties holding groups of 4-5 mobs at low health until they get their HP to 10%ish then zerging all of them down for chain 5+. In fact, if done with some pulling skill I can easily see chain 6-7 being possible with little difficulty.

Edit: obviously more than just pulling skill. Since mobs return if pulled too far. However, I do see utilizing mages as "pullers" like bards in XI where you could leave the melees to manage the mobs with a designated healer and send a conj to gather some mobs and hold them with sleepga. Something like that :p

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Hmm, AU meripo PTs took no skill at all lol. If you weren't getting chain 6+ your party "sucked" lol. (I'm not saying your party sucked, just in general.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy to see exp chains being added. However, I'd prefer my fights to take at least a little bit of strategy, some thinking, quick reflexes (think silena and paralyna), among other things. Overall, I'm 100% FOR exp chains, but the speed that's required, in my opinion, is way too fast.

I'd rather they lengthened the fights themselves while increasing overall exp per kill, resulting in the same exp/hour but giving us more in depth fights.

Edit:

To the OP: Sorry, I didn't mean to derail your thread. I think we're still talking about the same thing, just different ways of achieving it.

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No I see where your getting at and I really don't care how its achieved as long as it is achieved. In my last thread I was basically asking for the cap to be either removed or drastically raised because I feel like I get no sense of accomplishment when my party just mindlessly beats on raptors. I miss that sense of accomplishment I had in XI when i took down some pretty tough grinding mobs like Goobbues, Treants, Ghost, and Skeletons to name a few. I always had a sense of "Phew! close one again!" after I defeated mobs like them. I just want that back again because 1-50....has been no sense of accomplishment so far and I doubt my last 5 levels will be unless this cap is drastically lifted.

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Originally Posted by Exni

Screenie of you in a group at chain 200+ (which was an everyday thing for groups that had 'skill'..) or your just talking BS here.

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Really? Well that's unfortunate then since I quit playing FFXI about 2 years ago and have since formatted my HD on my old laptop which means all my pics are gone. And besides, I really didn't find getting chain 200+ to be anything worth taking an SS of, it was just how merit parties were meant to be played. Often times I would get chain 500+ as long as other parties didn't try to take over our camp. (Yeah, I had a lot of free time back then.)

The class that took the most skill was definitely the BRD, however I didn't play BRD in XI, so I can't comment there. I guess I was just extremely fortunate to always have good BRDs? I don't know.. Other than that, not much skill was required.

RDMs just had to Haste, Refresh and Cure, nothing new for them really. And if you happened to be meriting on something other than birds then they would also Slow and Sleep the mobs (Usually BRD would take care of this on birds).

Melee just had to spam WS when they had tp while always facing the next target before the current target died, letting auto-target do the work for them. Sadly, this likely won't work in XIV because we still won't be able to hold claim on multiple mobs unless they're linked or in a party. And even if we could, the auto-target system doesn't auto-target the next claimed mob anyways.

Sure, it was definitely easier with good players, and even easier with good players that were geared well, but I think some of you are missing my point. Meripo parties post AU took much less strategy than the SC/MB parties that came before them. It didn't matter what family of mob you were fighting, the basic strategy was always the same.

You never had to worry about a DD taking hate from a big WS because they died so fast. You didn't have to coordinate SCs and MBs, again because they died too fast. The only debuffs you really needed were Slow/Elegy. There was rarely ever any "oh shit" moments where you had to quickly counter with a Cure/Silena/Flash/Stun/whatever. And this is all with a time limit of 30 seconds.

Now, in FFXIV, the limit will be 10 seconds. 10 seconds.. How much strategy can you fit into 10 seconds, realistically? Not to mention the time between mobs. Keep in mind that auto-target doesn't work the same way here so you can't just position yourself correctly and automatically change target after each kill. People are already complaining how they don't even get a chance to hit mobs before the ARC kills them.

I see 2 outcomes:

1) Seeing chain 6+ will be extremely rare unless you're fighting a group of equal level mobs that are very close together and have a quick respawn.

2) Mobs ~10 levels above your parties level die within 5-10 seconds allowing us to keep the chain going. In other words, you barely get one attack in before they die, IF you're even that lucky.

When SE said that they wanted to focus on making battles require teamwork and strategy I just assumed they meant all battles, not just instanced boss fights.

When SE said that they were shooting for 30-45 second fights when soloing an equal level mob I just assumed the same would hold true for a party fighting mobs ~10 levels above them.

I apologize if anyone took any of my comments as insults, that's not what I intended. I'd just prefer to see combat in this game require teamwork, coordination and strategy. Zerging enemies in under 10 seconds a piece doesn't count.

High chains was not hard my highest chain pull as an brd once was 400+ you could prolly find some pics of ppl getting this by searching google lol

All they need to do is have a cap on skill chains, once you hit the cap you go to 0 again and have to start again.

Before ToAU destroyed FF11's battle system 5-6 was about the maximum you could get.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

All they need to do is have a cap on skill chains, once you hit the cap you go to 0 again and have to start again.

Before ToAU destroyed FF11's battle system 5-6 was about the maximum you could get.

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Nope lol you could get at-least chain 50 + in some places if you did it right. Also Monk burns come to mind and i was in one 200+ chains then also same for mana burns, you just did not see a lot of them cause it was not standard to do so some people was still exping on IT mobs @ cap, but if you was smart you was fighting Vt or T for chains

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Originally Posted by Genome

Correct me if I'm wrong but with the new claiming system can't you AoE damage a group of mobs and gain full exp off them? I can see parties holding groups of 4-5 mobs at low health until they get their HP to 10%ish then zerging all of them down for chain 5+. In fact, if done with some pulling skill I can easily see chain 6-7 being possible with little difficulty.

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throw in mobs "Calling in reinforcements" and the game spawning additional mobs to mow down. its gona be nuts.

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Originally Posted by Griss

throw in mobs "Calling in reinforcements" and the game spawning additional mobs to mow down. its gona be nuts.

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I hope it is, but I have a feeling it won't be... nuts that is.

If you look at the screenshot in the patch notes talking about XP chain, a 5 chain gave 675 exp, which is absolutely phenomenal considering current sp/kill rates. If XP is still capped after the patch the cap must be really damn high.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

If you look at the screenshot in the patch notes talking about XP chain, a 5 chain gave 675 exp, which is absolutely phenomenal considering current sp/kill rates. If XP is still capped after the patch the cap must be really damn high.

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Eh, considering it's a 50% bonus, you'd only need 450 base on a kill to get 675 on a chain 5. While good, I wouldn't say it's 'really damn high'.

It's still a lot better than the 500 cap we had imposed on release and approaches the crazy SP you would get in full party linked leves when they were being exploited. The small time limit on the chain 5 is, i'm assuming, intended for soloists/small parties to benefit more from fighting weaker enemies and getting a little XP but consistent bonus.

Don't forget parties will most likely be fighting linked mobs, we'll be using AOE skills and sometimes mobs might die off in a few second sof eachother. obtaining that chain 5+ a little easier.

plus maybe a puller can start pulling more mobs to the PT before the last one dies to keep that bonus going.

We'll just hav eto wait a few days to see how this all pans out.

Ok this it the thing I ultimately want....

A party of 8, 1 tank 2-3 mages 3-4 DD

We go after Mobs 20-25 levels higher than us getting 1 to 1.5k exp per mob, One mob at a time

I hope not all mobs will call for help. i hate multiple mobs as it is because there is no "provokaga"

Is that as hard as it seems?

Its probably also in place to limit how fast one can be powerleveled.

Uh.. there's a "Provokega" in War Drum and Warmonger.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Its probably also in place to limit how fast one can be powerleveled.

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Why don't they just add more xp required to level? I agree the road to 50 is an express lane, but awarding people who mindlessly stomp raptors 24/7 real fast, and punishing people would go after high level dangerous mobs doesn't make any sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Mahayana

Ok this it the thing I ultimately want....

A party of 8, 1 tank 2-3 mages 3-4 DD

We go after Mobs 20-25 levels higher than us getting 1 to 1.5k exp per mob, One mob at a time

I hope not all mobs will call for help. i hate multiple mobs as it is because there is no "provokaga"

Is that as hard as it seems?

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It's Called Wardrum this Provokeaga you speak and warmonger or w/e its spelled

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Originally Posted by Mahayana

Why don't they just add more xp required to level? I agree the road to 50 is an express lane, but awarding people who mindlessly stomp raptors 24/7 real fast, and punishing people would go after high level dangerous mobs doesn't make any sense to me.

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If stats work like they are supose to you probally wont even be able to fight mobs 20 lvls higher than you. I still dont get why would you wanna waste your time on a mob for like 10 mins for 1k exp when you can kill 20 in the same time frame....

Sorry I never knew about that skill but I would still appreciate it if there were mobs that didn't call for backup or if you could silence the mob so it couldn't call for backup

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Originally Posted by Firon

If stats work like they are supose to you probally wont even be able to fight mobs 20 lvls higher than you. I still dont get why would you wanna waste your time on a mob for like 10 mins for 1k exp when you can kill 20 in the same time frame....

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it wouldn't take ten minutes following the time it takes a party of 45s to kill rapors which is less than a minute most of the time a mob 20 levels higher than you should go down is less than 2-3 minutes. I have tested this on level 65s with a party of 7 and it took around that time, but once we realized there was a cap we said fuck it and did raptors cause there was no other choice.

Choice is the reason and the only one there needs to be.

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Originally Posted by viion

Choice is the reason and the only one there needs to be.

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