Why can you do Savage Coil unsynced?

Doesn't that sort of defeat the point of it? Since it drops nothing new, it's just there for the challenge, and the title isn't worth much if you can just scrub your way through it.

You can also enter the fight Level Synced for the fights "Original Challenge." Unsynced is fun for trying to beat fights with just 4-5 people or for quickly Farming Ponies and Glamour.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

You can also enter the fight Level Synced for the fights "Original Challenge." Unsynced is fun for trying to beat fights with just 4-5 people or for quickly Farming Ponies and Glamour.

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You can still do it unsynced with 8 people and get the titles too.
I already feeled like a cheater with ilvl 130 gear in Savage but lvl 60 is just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

You can still do it unsynced with 8 people and get the titles too.
I already feeled like a cheater with ilvl 130 gear in Savage but lvl 60 is just ridiculous.

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Why do you care about what titles other people have? You have the knowledge that you did it "properly". The reason you can do it unsynced is because there are people that want to experience the story and content of Coil, but never could before because they didn't have a static or progression FC. Or they weren't "serious gamers".

Sorry, when I read this and the OP, what it actually sounded like was, "But mommy, I have the Red Power Ranger! I got up really early to get one before they sold out! But now Jimmy down the street has one too! Waaah..."

You can still check on lodestone when people got it plus the bonus stats really don't help that much with many mechanics untill people know what to do.
Not saying it is not a boost but I believe savage is still kinda hard even with ilvl 190.

Ilvl 180 won't save you when The Avatar. binds both your tanks and puts all four landmines on the tank side.

Or Renaud's club swing.

Or Stone Curse.

Or literally everything Nael deus Darnus. does.

or THE BEES!!!.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Why do you care about what titles other people have? You have the knowledge that you did it "properly". The reason you can do it unsynced is because there are people that want to experience the story and content of Coil, but never could before because they didn't have a static or progression FC. Or they weren't "serious gamers".

Sorry, when I read this and the OP, what it actually sounded like was, "But mommy, I have the Red Power Ranger! I got up really early to get one before they sold out! But now Jimmy down the street has one too! Waaah..."

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look at this dreadful post. please dont troll.

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Originally Posted by bideogames

look at this dreadful post. please dont troll.

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Pot, Kettle, etc.

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Originally Posted by bideogames

look at this dreadful post. please dont troll.

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Can't tell if trolling or just stupid. No one has a good reason to care about other people's titles or how they clear something.

In Savage Second Coil, the mechanics matter much more than the numbers. No amount of DPS, HP, or what have you will save you if you're still failing mechanics. That's the victory in Savage Coil; the pride of successfully navigating the most difficult mechanics in the entire game. Well, unless Savage Alexander has successfully 1-uped it :)

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

The reason you can do it unsynced is because there are people that want to experience the story and content of Coil, but never could before because they didn't have a static or progression FC. Or they weren't "serious gamers".

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That reason may hold up for normal coil (although I still think it should be done properly), but it has absolutely no bearing on savage, since normal mode exists.

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Originally Posted by Core1019

That reason may hold up for normal coil (although I still think it should be done properly), but it has absolutely no bearing on savage, since normal mode exists.

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A better question is, why wouldn't unsync work on it? It's outdated content from ARR.

I'm still trying to grasp the point you're attempting to make. If you've completed it or even if you haven't, why would you care. It's not like completing this content gives any kind of competitive edge, is it simple elitism? Or do you have a valid concern.

I agree with the OP, Savage Coil has no relation to the story and was a raid put in place for players to give them selves a really tough challenge, it doesn't gate out any other content and doesn't drop anything worth killing it for, the only reward is a title. People are saying it shouldn't matter who has the titles, but thats the common entitled attitude I've noticed is common on these forums. Teams worked really hard to get their clears, and clearing a turn at the time was seen as a big achievement, it shouldn't be given out to others so easily when it has no real effect on the games progression or story.

Either way the mechanics will mess up players who are level 60, but I can see fights like T6 and 9 being trivial in an un-synced group.

So long as going unsynced is an option and not a straight out nerf, who cares. If you want it synced, then run it synced.

People care waaaaay too much for these things. It's outdated content and no one is gonna care when VII remake or the next FF MMO comes out.

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Originally Posted by ABecides

You can still do it unsynced with 8 people and get the titles too.
I already feeled like a cheater with ilvl 130 gear in Savage but lvl 60 is just ridiculous.

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Because old content is old?

You're new to the genre aren't you?

In specific cases of Savage Coil too much DPS will cause rotations to start over on a phase change at in-opportune times leading to certain death.
The mechanically dense nature of the fights ensure that players cannot bully through them with numbers alone.

To revive a dead thread- As somebody who hasn't cleared savage coil, I agree with the op. There should be some things in a game that remain elite. Is that "elitist"? Of course it is. Is that a bad thing? No. It is fun to get things that are rare, and it is less fun when they become less rare.

That people do things which I don't/can't do, makes the game world more interesting.

Edit: At the same time, I can understand that older content can be more quickly ignored if it doesn't evolve. Asking players to forego all their new skills, and wipe a lot.. This is quite the deterrent and goes a long ways to making coil savage completely empty of players.
Also, elite players have an added incentive to do the new elite thing vs "resting on laurels."

If elite content had seasonal rewards, whatever they may be, for clearing pre-nerf, that'd be cool.

The whole point of Savage ScoB was to bring challenge. And as many said, it doesn't give anything but titles because the story is in normal and the gear is the same as normal.

So why would you kill the challenge for the sake of killing it? That's non-sense.

From developer's side there's no point to keep old, irrelevant content dead by gating it behind original difficulty. Nobody would do it now so these raids would be just dead files on everyone's hard drives.

I get that the early clearers want to keep their achievement rare as a proof of their skill, but no MMO works like that. It gives them their 15 minutes of fame then allows everyone and their mom to repeat it a year later.

If you want the challenge, do all content when it's relevant. Because soon everyone will catch up and cheese it by massively overgearing.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

From developer's side there's no point to keep old, irrelevant content dead by gating it behind original difficulty.

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But what's the point it doing a challenging content without its challenge if it doesn't give anything else? That's the answer I'm waiting for years but still didn't get a decent response.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

But what's the point it doing a challenging content without its challenge if it doesn't give anything else?

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Can't you still do it synced or with items of a lower iLvL? If you can, the challenge is still there, if you want it. And truly, you can make any content more challenging simply by changing your own handicap. Try doing a couple raids in min iLvL and first person mode sometime!

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Originally Posted by Arutan

But what's the point it doing a challenging content without its challenge if it doesn't give anything else? That's the answer I'm waiting for years but still didn't get a decent response.

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I did it for an achievement and a title. A good point enough for me. I have also never cleared A8S and A12S but will cheese them unsynched in lv70 gear just for a minion and a mount. And there's nothing you or any elitist can do about it.

You see, people are different and not everyone cares about the challenge. I don't care about the challenge. But I don't mind glamour items in my collection. To each his own.

The problem with this game is that raiders get nothing decent because at some point everything will get unsynch. Why no one complain about gated Feast glamour and mount for top players but when it comes to raid everyone is whining?

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Originally Posted by Arutan

But what's the point it doing a challenging content without its challenge if it doesn't give anything else? That's the answer I'm waiting for years but still didn't get a decent response.

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Challenge is in the eye of the beholder really when it comes to how different players are. Some want the challenge when its fresh and shiny and done the way of its original intent. Some want the challenge of tackling it later on either solo or with a friend or two. Some just don't care for it and are happy with steamrolling it later for either some item or just reliving old memories. That's vertical progression for you, nothing stays pure and clean forever. Usually most that wanted the challenge when it was fresh and new long stopped thinking about older challenges cause they moved on to current challenges. I'm happy things are unsynced, I'd rather see people enjoy the content as they want rather then seeing it just sit there un-used and forgotten.

Because people want to?

Is that not a good enough reason?

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Originally Posted by Arutan

The problem with this game is that raiders get nothing decent because at some point everything will get unsynch. Why no one complain about gated Feast glamour and mount for top players but when it comes to raid everyone is whining?

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Welcome to MMO's. I 2-manned the Lich King with my wife a year ago. It was a blast. Old content does NOT matter. Enforcing level syncs and such is pointless.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

Why no one complain about gated Feast glamour and mount for top players [...]

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But people ARE complaining :|

Fun fact, they even dropped a minion out of the top 10 rewards of Feast so minion collectors could get it. (Which might have economical side motivations, seeing as people spend a LOT of money just to keep their minion collection complete)

You do mention something peculiar though: Getting "something decent". That's the entire joke about these debates - despite everyone talking about challenge, it's never truly about challenge; it's only about people wanting to lord their ego over others with exclusive rewards that filthy plebs shouldn't be able to touch ever so that it may not be "devalued" by their impurity. Sense of accomplishment and personal fulfillment? Screw that, it's all about the daily dose of holier than thou. Why even bother raiding otherwise? It always comes boiling down to that. And some people have realized that by now and simply have stopped caring about the desires of the people complaining about the lack of "challenge" as a result, much to the chagrin of the few people who simply want to push themselves to the limit.

Yes there is. It's a competing element. Not pop competitive but still competitive.

The entire point of savage coil was a challenge with no rewards but the title. Making it easy to get by smashing it unsynced destroys any value that title has.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Yes there is. It's a competing element. Not pop competitive but still competitive.

The entire point of savage coil was a challenge with no rewards but the title. Making it easy to get by smashing it unsynced destroys any value that title has.

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All value in that title vanished when hw came out. the people who got it when it was relevant got the challenge the devs intended for them to get. that's like me getting mad over people farming ravana where people just over gear and not do any mechanics. Which isn't true for savage coil by the way the only thing they don't have to worry about is dps check type mechanic they still have to know and do the other mechanics in the fight.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Yes there is. It's a competing element. Not pop competitive but still competitive.

The entire point of savage coil was a challenge with no rewards but the title. Making it easy to get by smashing it unsynced destroys any value that title has.

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And again, why does it matter if your title is "devalued"? It doesn't.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Welcome to MMO's. I 2-manned the Lich King with my wife a year ago. It was a blast. Old content does NOT matter. Enforcing level syncs and such is pointless.

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Pretty much.... I remember in EQ, raids that used to take a full 72 player raid force to beat. A few years later they could all be single grouped for the fun of it or twinking/flagging/keying alts and second boxes. Even Final Fantasy isn't immune to this, we all heard the stories of XI where Red Mages did the impossible once Abyssea went into full swing.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

And again, why does it matter if your title is "devalued"? It doesn't.

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It does though. It impacts player retention because nothing holds value or feels rewarding. And because it isn't rewarding players drop the game.
It's the same with gear and everything and why people are tired of the endless treadmill cos it's not rewarding and all it does is burn players out.

As for losing value as soon as heavens ward came out thats because of the ops question. If it wasn't able to be unsynced it would still have value as a challenge

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Originally Posted by Core1019

Doesn't that sort of defeat the point of it? Since it drops nothing new, it's just there for the challenge, and the title isn't worth much if you can just scrub your way through it.

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It was a challenge purposely made for people that demanded a challenge. Or so they claimed.

Then when released and discovered you only got a title, most of those "challenge seekers" decided it was pointless to do. Like the rest of the content, sans the 24 man raids, everything gets subjected to unsycning once it's grown stale and moldy.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

It does though. It impacts player retention because nothing holds value or feels rewarding. And because it isn't rewarding players drop the game.
It's the same with gear and everything and why people are tired of the endless treadmill cos it's not rewarding and all it does is burn players out.

As for losing value as soon as heavens ward came out thats because of the ops question. If it wasn't able to be unsynced it would still have value as a challenge

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I don't think "rewarding" is the word you want to use. A rewarding feeling would imply that you feel good for having accomplished it. The feeling you're describing is feeling good because other people haven't. That's very different.

IDK why someone bumped this but arguing undersized option devalues it is stupid as you could already do it with i130 gear and echo which already eliminated "the challenge" of the content which was for i110 gear and no echo.

Good lord why the heck did someone re-bump this 2 year old topic that doesn't even matter. Second coil is old content. It doesn't matter anymore. You should be putting your focus onto Stormblood content. All the content in Heavensward will be face-rolled in Stormblood. There's absolutely no reason to keep content locked behind syncing when it doesn't matter anymore. That's what getting better gear does, make the old content face-roll. If you want the challenge, then sync to it and call it a day. The option is there if you want it.

Just to reply to the people saying that mechanics are important and more dps/hp won't help much in scob savage unsync, nope, I went in with 8 ppl unsynced and killed t7s before even the first gaze lol. I never understood t8s mechanics but it was a really quick burn as well. The only things I needed to know were blight in t6s and meteors in t9s (same as t9 I think, or at least I didn't notice any difference).

Edit: nevermind, those were old posts from early 3.x.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I don't think "rewarding" is the word you want to use. A rewarding feeling would imply that you feel good for having accomplished it. The feeling you're describing is feeling good because other people haven't. That's very different.

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Rewarding is exactly the right word. the fact that someone else hasn't done something that you have succeeded in only increases the accomplishment factor. it doesn't make it an entirely different thing.

But when others get the same thing for less that's where it destroys the value of the reward.

It's like an Olympic gold medal. People winning a gold medal doesn't make your gold medal any less rewarding or accomplished because they've done the same thing you have to win it.
But if you start handing those golds to everyone even the guy that comes in last and suddenly your gold medal isn't rewarding or theres no accomplishment in having it...

works both ways. if you've just won an Olympic gold it doesn't devalue the reward or everyone whos won one years ago because you still had to do the same thing to get it... thus it is still a reward and an accomplishment