Anyone else hate WAR stance dancing?

Maybe if you have a healer who doesn't dps but me having to stop dps to spam heal you is a net loss to the group...

It doesn't matter to me I just throw divine seal regen and an asylum on the tank and DPS. If they get low I'll just use Benediction.

Where is the problem? crit adloq -> cleric nuff dps

I like them to, more dps kill the baddies faster

It's only annoying if they change stance but forget about the obligatory defensive cooldowns

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justinjarjar

I like them to, more dps kill the baddies faster

---

Understandable when you have people in the group that know what they're doing. If DPS doesnt and they're constantly taking damage while WAR is constantly dipping because they're in deliverance - it's just unnecessary stress on the healer. A lot of WARs arent considerate enough to assess the ability of the group to be able to handle it.

I don't mind if it's appropriate. So long as he's not dipping below 50% every 3 seconds from full health, it's okay with me.

I've found anything is better than a DRK in DPS gear. I like a challenge when healing but at min level of a new dungeon, my AST can't keep up a DRK on large pulls. It was different when I was on WHM with so many options for keeping up a tank who takes more damage than my biggest spammable heal. Bene, Tetragrammaton, Holy-stun, DS, PoM. But on AST if a tank is taking more damage than Benefict II spam coupled with Aspected Benefict can handle, I'm a 3 trick pony and then you're dead (or undead as the case may be with drk)

Other than that I'm all for tank DPS when appropriate, like on bosses/trials or being sufficiently geared.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azorius

Maybe if you have a healer who doesn't dps but me having to stop dps to spam heal you is a net loss to the group...

---

Warriors used to be my favorite tanks, but since this expansion I cringe whenever I see them in the party. Every time I blink to cast on someone else I look over and they're almost dead and use their self-heal to regain 200 TP then burn Infuriate to drop another Fell Cleave on something and completely forget they have Holmgang while making a remark about "Did you see that damage?". Last boss in Fractal is where I have the most issue with it. I cast Succor, dodge an AoE, move from a spawning mine, start casting Leeches on a DPS to remove the bomb, then look at the tank. The tank who now has 10% HP for some reason, is in Deliverance, uses his self heal for TP, no defensive cooldown running, doesn't switch back to Defiance for the increase in HP and received healing, and I'm somehow the bad player for him dying.

I'm really happy they got a new toy, and I enjoy Deliverance on my 60 WAR. But I know my job is to hold hate and not die, and sometimes you need to keep Defiance up for that goal. I used to have (and still have) the same issue with Paladins that insist on tanking 4 pulls worth of stuff with Sword Oath up for damage knowing that Shield Oath would reduce damage taken by 20% and make my life much easier.

Depends on what they are stance dancing on imo. If they are in Deliverance when they know they will be getting hit by a massive attack... >.> ugh. On normal pulls and normal attacks though it is not problem. WARs need to know when is the right moment to swap or they will be heal sponges.

i have honestly gotten to the point where i feel like i died a little inside every time i see a war in my party as a healer...

Do WARs do this regularly? I only hop into deliverance when bosses stop doing their damage, typically when adds come out. On trash it's big pull > unchained > berserk > AoE rape in defiance, assuming there's a caster in the group.

I don't have problem with their stance. Crit Adlo FTW. Also DPS stance make it clear faster.

Akin to how healers should be stance dancing at appropriate times, Warriors who do so properly are fine. Those who decide to swap to DPS stance when theyre about to hit a tank buster and pop nothing? I can't heal through bad decisions, but I can raise them \o/

the problem is ... most wars are pretty stupid (no offense to the good ones) and will pop into deliverance in the middle of a giant mob without using a single flipping cooldown. and then theirs that war who thinks they can face tank a tank buster in deliverance... without using cooldowns...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Do WARs do this regularly?

---

It's a consistent problem to the point that I've had tanks that literally run the entire dungeon in Deliverance and I just die inside every time I have to kill my fairy to get 3 more Lustrate charges to keep their stupid @$$ off the ground.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chiramu

WARs need to know when is the right moment to swap or they will be heal sponges.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parawill

Akin to how healers should be stance dancing at appropriate times, Warriors who do so properly are fine. Those who decide to swap to DPS stance when theyre about to hit a tank buster and pop nothing? I can't heal through bad decisions, but I can raise them \o/

---

They're always heal sponges, but between Defiance and Deliverance there is no difference in damage taken so to them they are literally just gaining damage. What they lose is a self-heal, a self-heal with a damage reduction buff, a 25% boost in HP, a 20% increase in healing received, enmity increase, and 5% accuracy. But for some reason when they're in that stance they just seem to start getting wrecked all of a sudden like they're taking extra damage from somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

I used to have (and still have) the same issue with Paladins that insist on tanking 4 pulls worth of stuff with Sword Oath up for damage knowing that Shield Oath would reduce damage taken by 20% and make my life much easier.

---

I can sorta see why WAR do this (more DEEPS !!), but why any paladins would switch to Sword Oath for mass pulling is beyond me. I mean sure you have circle of scorn but 90% of the time you will be spamming flash so yeah ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Do WARs do this regularly?

---

YES.

A Healer can not compensate for what is effectively 3 DPS in a party and no Tank. It's not so much the rapid HP loss but the rapid Aggro gain. Essentially any time the Tank is -not- in their tank stance, you are telling the healer not to heal anyone, because they don't want to tank instead.

Everything has to be timed appropriately, and "stance dance" is some of the worst timed things players do. Assume the worst and adapt along the way. It's far more common to have minimally equipped players than over-geared ones.

Is there a tank role that has a heal ability? I've never played a tank only WHM for the past year so I don't understand any of the posts on here, but someone mentioned about a tank popping a heal on themselves. I feel like I've seen that a few times, where a tank has never been in danger of dying, but as I'm casting a Cure II to bring them back up, their HP seems to suddenly go to almost full (in a 4 person) so was always wondering if they had some kind of cure ability. It's also not physik from someone else. Maybe it's different on PS4 but how can you tell so easily what a tank is doing in terms of DPSing or not? I have no idea what their buffs up mean since they are small on my screen, and unlike on PC you can't just mouse over them to see what they are. When it's a large pull and I'm trying to keep them alive, there's no way I ever have time to be like oh let me zoom in to see what they are doing when I've never even played as a tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 416to305

Is there a tank role that has a heal ability? I've never played a tank only WHM for the past year so I don't understand any of the posts on here, but someone mentioned about a tank popping a heal on themselves. I feel like I've seen that a few times, where a tank has never been in danger of dying, but as I'm casting a Cure II to bring them back up, their HP seems to suddenly go to almost full (in a 4 person) so was always wondering if they had some kind of cure ability. It's also not physik from someone else. Maybe it's different on PS4 but how can you tell so easily what a tank is doing in terms of DPSing or not? I have no idea what their buffs up mean since they are small on my screen, and unlike on PC you can't just mouse over them to see what they are. When it's a large pull and I'm trying to keep them alive, there's no way I ever have time to be like oh let me zoom in to see what they are doing when I've never even played as a tank.

---

WARs have an ability called "Inner Beast" that restores HP to them equal to the damage they dealt. They can generally do this every 15-20 seconds with a few notable exceptions such as Infuriate than Inner Beast.

Alternatively, a Bloodbath + Unchained + Berserk WAR with a large enough pack can get quite a bit of HP back just spamming Overpower into a group of mobs too as Bloodbath gives the player in question HP equal to 25% of the damage dealt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

They're always heal sponges, but between Defiance and Deliverance there is no difference in damage taken so to them they are literally just gaining damage. What they lose is a self-heal, a self-heal with a damage reduction buff, a 25% boost in HP, a 20% increase in healing received, enmity increase, and 5% accuracy. But for some reason when they're in that stance they just seem to start getting wrecked all of a sudden like they're taking extra damage from somewhere.

---

Do note that without Defiance up, they also lose access to Inner Beast, which is a 20% damage reduction - this is also probably why the feel "squishier" if they aren't making use of that CD. In general I've always felt WARs were "squishy" compared to their PLD counterparts in 2.X, so when they go to Deliverance, I tend not to notice until I hear that distinct "BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ" of Fell Cleave going off.

Funny how I can do this with some healers and its very smooth, and some just cant seem to keep up so I change, and your small dps isnt making up for it. Yes there are a ton of bad tanks, but look at yourself before blaming others as well.

But what Im really tired of is the judgements. You cant please everyone and each healer expects you to play how they want you to. Ive been yelled at for not using dps mode, and Ive been yelled at for using dps mode. I think you healers should worry more about healing and if you hate it so bad blame SE for giving us the ability to dps.

Hmm I haven't gotten my healer up in HW yet, but I could see how this would be annoying. The problem I see here is simply people not playing WAR correctly. Example (I main WAR) on big pulls be in defiance, use big CDs then smaller ones as the mind drop, is the healer still good on mana and CDs? Switch to deliverance to help finish the trash. On bosses, be in defiance infuriate, blood bath, berserk, unchained after unchained drops off if the boss isn't doing a lot of damage switch to deliverance and dps while popping CDs. That is how I play WAR, the people are most likely just excited about the new stance. Once they figure it out then it will be fine. Until then please bear with them, *bows to apologize.

I think WAR look cool from a solo undersize prespective but PLD is the easiest to heal generally. I do find a lot of tanks can be total garbage so when I finally level my tank it will probably be a PLD.

As a healer I can't put that dps tank bs into this world

I've largely giving up healing for dungeons cause of things like this. I mostly just tank for dungeons now and see my role as making the healer's life as easy as possible. I tend to keep tanking stances on all the time unless I'm just not taking a lot of damage(things like the demon book in library and such), or occasionally pop vengance to go to deliverance and berserk a couple fell cleaves then switch back. I've made it known in other places how annoying it is that some tanks are so obsessed with playing dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peachy;3179793[B

]Funny how I can do this with some healers and its very smooth, and some just cant seem to keep up so I change, and your small dps isnt making up for it.[/B] Yes there are a ton of bad tanks, but look at yourself before blaming others as well.

But what Im really tired of is the judgements. You cant please everyone and each healer expects you to play how they want you to. Ive been yelled at for not using dps mode, and Ive been yelled at for using dps mode. I think you healers should worry more about healing and if you hate it so bad blame SE for giving us the ability to dps.

---

Two way street. We get blamed for DPSing and healing. We get blamed for healing and not DPSing. Tanks get blamed for DPSing and tanking efficiently. Tanks get blamed for tanking only. Two. Way. Street.

Of course we have the "healers not healing enough because in Cleric Stance" or "tanks taking too much damage because not popping CDs and in deliverance." Not necessarily judgement (at least, speaking for myself anyways), but anywho, to each of their own.

If they can handle it then it's fine. The only time things bother me is when Tanks bite off more than they can chew in regards to what they pull and how they handle it. I'd rather people stay within their limits than make me have to constantly panic heal racing against huge HP chunks being lost each second. Seen plenty who manage to stance dance all the time it takes practice but can be an effective way to boost DPS much like Healer stance dancing.

I guess as a WHM I have it a bit easier because holy stuns mean you go several seconds before needing to heal the Tank at all.

I honestly have no issue with tanks in dps stance. I guess my only real issue is those tanks who do dps stance but can't hold there Aggro which oddly is more common then I would like. Tank is my main role so I can tell good ones from bad ones war will be the next I level to max once my whm 60 then I'll have all tanks at 60.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurai_Miu

I honestly have no issue with tanks in dps stance. I guess my only real issue is those tanks who do dps stance but can't hold there Aggro which oddly is more common then I would like.

---

I don't honestly know how a tank could do it against decent dps. In ex roulette on my pld(which has the ilvl 180 weapon) if I get good dps I can hold mobs but the aggro meters on dps are uncomfortably high. I couldn't imagine trying to hold stuff without the aggro bonus on tank stances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yorumi

I don't honestly know how a tank could do it against decent dps. In ex roulette on my pld(which has the ilvl 180 weapon) if I get good dps I can hold mobs but the aggro meters on dps are uncomfortably high. I couldn't imagine trying to hold stuff without the aggro bonus on tank stances.

---

I agree that is why I am in defiance first, makes it easier on the healers and keeps the dps from grabbing aggro. Tanks are under estimating dps. (Ilvl 186, strength build, Rav weapon)

i think most tanks currently don't realize how much aggro a DPS can get because of the massive amount of aggro the DRK has which borders on being outright absurd to the point they can out aggro a tank in their tank stance while using there DPS stance...

In honesty it's all about the situation. As a healer I gauge player class proficiency through the first pull, and adapt to accordingly. If I notice DPS is high and tanks are using mitigation, then I'll swap into Cleric Stance and contribute my own DPS. If DPS is way too low to the point where I need to actually conserve mana for the next pull, then I'll sit back and heal and maybe throw in some Fluid Auras as a finisher. Same goes if the tank is holding aggro, but not popping CDs, I'll swap to just healing to compensate for it and ask for some sort of mitigation for each pull--if they don't listen? Challenge accepted.

Mos tanks I know also do the same thing as I do in duty finder. Pull, test aggro with tank stance and shift to initial pulls with tank stance and swap to Deliverance/Sword Oath if they can keep up aggro. With how players can range from horrible DPS to excellent DPS, any player is going to have to adjust accordingly. Even DPS do with Quellings vs. mobs that cannot be healed when a DPS is tanking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Do note that without Defiance up, they also lose access to Inner Beast, which is a 20% damage reduction - this is also probably why the feel "squishier" if they aren't making use of that CD. In general I've always felt WARs were "squishy" compared to their PLD counterparts in 2.X, so when they go to Deliverance, I tend not to notice until I hear that distinct "BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ" of Fell Cleave going off.

---

I'm a main healer that also plays warrior, I use STR accessories on right-side and do stance dance in dungeons when it's appropriate. Like phases with minimal damage, or boss adds. Basically play as smart as I can to pull out dps and still be tanky. I'm not anyway squishy as long as I make good decisions.

WAR still does have access to 30% Vengeance cooldown in Deliverance though (but it's every 120s). At 58 WAR has Equilibrium which is a 1200 potency heal when used in Defiance. If it's used in Deliverance it is a 200 TP regen. So it's important for a warrior to utilize this skill correctly.

Now some warriors may recklessly spend their wrath stacks on Steel Cyclone when they probably should be using Inner Beast in a bigger pull to get some HP back. Especially when they are undergeared for that content. Now they have other options like Bloodbath, Convalescence, Thrill of Battle and/or Vengeance that could be available but basically if they are taking a beating and none of those ever come up, that is on them.

I tell them that if they aren't going to use CDs when stance dancing I will be lazy too and just let my fairy heal you. If she can't keep up that's not my fault. Why should I have to work harder when the tank is being lazy and not using all his kit has to offer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 416to305

Is there a tank role that has a heal ability?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghishlain

WARs have an ability called "Inner Beast" that restores HP to them equal to the damage they dealt. They can generally do this every 15-20 seconds with a few notable exceptions such as Infuriate than Inner Beast.

---

Additionally Warriors get an ability at 58 with a 60 second cooldown called Equilibrium that is a cure with a potency of 1200, but only in Defiance. In Deliverance it returns 200 TP. I never see it used for HP so I don't know if it's because they think they need the TP, or if it's because they panic and hit the button and remember they're not in Defiance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nova_Dresden

Additionally Warriors get an ability at 58 with a 60 second cooldown called Equilibrium that is a cure with a potency of 1200, but only in Defiance. In Deliverance it returns 200 TP. I never see it used for HP so I don't know if it's because they think they need the TP, or if it's because they panic and hit the button and remember they're not in Defiance.

---

Not to be insulting, but they probably forget it's there. A lot of us are still getting used to our new toys, and the idea of a self-heal doing much for us. Personally I love to just suddenly supplement the healer with a Berserk-boosted Second Wind + Equilibrium, it's a very decent amount of healing (usually 5500 altogether I think? With my total of 18k that's pretty nice!).

I've mostly run as PLD through 2.0 (although I did level all jobs to 50) .. My PLD was my first to 60 and WAR was second. (DRK currently 53) So I mostly play tanks. ATM though I've been on WAR more than PLD, I just find the fluidity of stance changing on them to be great !!

That said though, I initiate trash pulls in Defiance, since I tend to move through dungeons at a decent clip I wont have Infuriate up for initial pulls alot of the time so I defiance, gain initial aggro then usually swap into Del to contribute DPS for the remainder of the pull. Bosses in the 4-mans I just run Deliverance full time. Theres no boss in any of the 4-mans that actually requires Defiance (IMO) Of course I use cooldowns all the time and if my healers is struggling, be that due to a spike in DMG, having to heal DPS or just taking a few mechanic hits themselves, I'll swap straight back into Defiance to give them room to recover.

Not all WAR run around in Defiance in full STR gear and derp. (Yes I do have full slaying gear, but in a pug I'll only swap to that if I feel the group can handle it - a couple pulls into the dungeon usually)

In short, give WAR a chance !! Sure there are some bad ones out there, but tbh when I am on DPS (MCH is 59) its usually DRK's I see taking the a$$whoopin .. not WAR. Your milage may vary ....