Tomestones and Roulette's

Not sure if there's been a thread on this or not and wanted to get peoples thoughts and opinions on the idea.

Currently at level 60, Roulette's award; for completing, Poetics, Law, Esoterics, or some combination thereof.

As it currently stands anything below 60 is only awarded bonus Exp/Gil, forcing you to choose between leveling a class or getting tomestones. Do you think it would be fair to award said tomestones on classes you have yet to get to 60, AS LONG as you already have at least one DoW/DoM leveled to 60? Or do you think this would unbalance the system?

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

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I posted this a few weeks ago and got flamed so hard. I agree with your idea. So +1 from me.

I really wish this is what they would do. The whole point of the roulette was to promote the running of older content. Why should they care whether we do the roulette at max level or not? All that matters is that we are running the content.

The tomestone reward replaces the XP reward for those who can no longer get XP. Maybe a system where you can choose between getting either an XP reward or a tome reward would work, but having some players get both while others get just the tomes wouldn't match up very well.

I think that would definitely be fair, OP.

it's totally unfair to get XP and the same number of Tomes as someone who isn't getting XP.

i don't think this change is needed.

Agreeing with the OP. I want to level my drg to 60, but I also want to gear up, cause I'm only going to fall behind even more. Now I have to play the roulettes and then fate, and fate leveling is the one thing I hate the most out of this game...

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's totally unfair to get XP and the same number of Tomes as someone who isn't getting XP.

i don't think this change is needed.

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I'm not sure I grasp the point of this stance. For the person who wouldn't be getting the exp bonus, would it not be safe to assume the reason they would not be getting the exp bonus is because all of their classes are leveled, or simply has no interest in leveling the other classes?

maybe half the tomestones and all the exp if the classs isnt 60
but definitely not the same amount of tomestones as if you were running it with 60

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

maybe half the tomestones and all the exp if the classs isnt 60
but definitely not the same amount of tomestones as if you were running it with 60

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I wouldn't mind that, I just hate the fact that I'm essentially sacrificing one for the other right now. I mean the Roulette system exists for the purpose to make sure people are still doing dungeons and what not, so that those still progressing through the story, still get through the story. You're doing the same thing, just now that you have a 60 you want to level something else up as well.

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Originally Posted by Ranen

I really wish this is what they would do. The whole point of the roulette was to promote the running of older content. Why should they care whether we do the roulette at max level or not? All that matters is that we are running the content.

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Jobs lower than max level don't need tomes to lure them into roulette. They already get exp for it.

so level your DRG with Low Level and if you want more tomes do Fractal/Neverreap/Alex without roulette afterwards.

I think the issue is that with the weekly lockouts, caps, and the rate at which you get the tomestone currency, the esoteric currency is actually worth more than experience points. No one is penalized for missing a week of leveling because there isn't anything blockading people from getting experience points on a regular basis. I think it would be a good idea to recognize this and keep the currently capped tomestones on the roulettes regardless of level.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I'm not sure I grasp the point of this stance. For the person who wouldn't be getting the exp bonus, would it not be safe to assume the reason they would not be getting the exp bonus is because all of their classes are leveled, or simply has no interest in leveling the other classes?

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no, that's not safe to assume. some people are sacrificing not leveling another class so they can get more tomes. that doesn't mean you can say they have no interest in leveling other classes. they just prioritize their time differently. it's blatantly unfair for 2 people to do the same dungeon and one person gets a lot more rewards than the other. the world isn't always fair but the OP specifically asked for us to comment on the fairness of his proposal.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's totally unfair to get XP and the same number of Tomes as someone who isn't getting XP.

i don't think this change is needed.

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How is this unfair? You've got no need for XP if you go in on a capped character, so...

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

no, that's not safe to assume. some people are sacrificing not leveling another class so they can get more tomes. that doesn't mean you can say they have no interest in leveling other classes. they just prioritize their time differently. it's blatantly unfair for 2 people to do the same dungeon and one person gets a lot more rewards than the other. the world isn't always fair but the OP specifically asked for us to comment on the fairness of his proposal.

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The point of this change would be that you don't have to sacrifice not leveling another class to get tomes. You wouldn't be forced to choose. You could have both.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

How is this unfair? You've got no need for XP if you go in on a capped character, so...



The point of this change would be that you don't have to sacrifice not leveling another class to get tomes. You wouldn't be forced to choose. You could have both.

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you answered your own question. after the change 1 person can have both, the other person can't have both, that by definition is unfair.

Player 1 enters at Lv 60, gets 100 Law 5 Eso
Player 2 enters at Lv 50, gets 100 Law 5 Eso, 300k XP.

Player 2 got more, that's unfair.

to make it fair, you should give Player 1 an XP scroll that grants 300k XP that they can use on another class.

The argument doesn't make any sense to me. It wouldn't be unfair at all because it would be the players choice. If they already have a class at 60 and would like to do a roulette to get tomes, but also do that while leveling an alt, then that's great. If they don't want to level another class, then they only get tomes. If his entire party was leveling alts and all getting exp + tomes, it's still not unsure cause that player could've done the same but chose not to. The only time it would come into effect would be if all DoW/DoM were at level cap. And by that point, who cares.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Jobs lower than max level don't need tomes to lure them into roulette. They already get exp for it.

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I'm not talking about low levels. I'm talking about as a person who has a max level, it shouldn't matter if we run content on that max level class or on a lower level alt, we should still get the tomes so that we can still gear our mains up even if we aren't going into that roulette on the lvl 60. Sacrificing one for the other kind of thing isn't really needed imo as the whole point of roulette was to give an incentive to run older content and for most people tomes are usually the better incentive.

As it stands High lvl roulette is pretty much useless. It gives poetics/Law and no esoterics nor does it give EXP inside the dungeons (just bonus). So as a person who may want to level may not find the roulette bonus that attractive and may just skip it, especially if they're only interested in esoterics. (like myself)

I honestly don't see an issue with allowing you to either choose between exp/tomes or giving both...but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you answered your own question. after the change 1 person can have both, the other person can't have both, that by definition is unfair.

Player 1 enters at Lv 60, gets 100 Law 5 Eso
Player 2 enters at Lv 50, gets 100 Law 5 Eso, 300k XP.

Player 2 got more, that's unfair.

to make it fair, you should give Player 1 an XP scroll that grants 300k XP that they can use on another class.

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Well couldn't that then become an additional perk in having a level 60 character? Nothing is preventing anyone from reaching 60 and also enjoying this bonus, if it were to be added that is.

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Originally Posted by Ranen

I'm not talking about low levels. I'm talking about as a person who has a max level, it shouldn't matter if we run content on that max level class or on a lower level alt, we should still get the tomes so that we can still gear our mains up even if we aren't going into that roulette on the lvl 60. Sacrificing one for the other kind of thing isn't really needed imo as the whole point of roulette was to give an incentive to run older content and for most people tomes are usually the better incentive.

As it stands High lvl roulette is pretty much useless. It gives poetics/Law and no esoterics nor does it give EXP inside the dungeons (just bonus). So as a person who may want to level may not find the roulette bonus that attractive and may just skip it, especially if they're only interested in esoterics. (like myself)

I honestly don't see an issue with allowing you to either choose between exp/tomes or giving both...but that's just me.

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If I'm understanding you correctly, in that if you have a Max class on one character then you should be able to receive tomestone on a entirely separate character, that would be an imbalance. If you mean to have a Max class then simply switch to another class then to level and be rewarded for, then disregard my previous statement.

No. This encourages different play styles. Want to level? You can do that roulette and get exp. You want tomes? Suck it up with your better gear, and help the people who are leveling. Why are people so opposed to having to make a choice?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you answered your own question. after the change 1 person can have both, the other person can't have both, that by definition is unfair.

Player 1 enters at Lv 60, gets 100 Law 5 Eso
Player 2 enters at Lv 50, gets 100 Law 5 Eso, 300k XP.

Player 2 got more, that's unfair.

to make it fair, you should give Player 1 an XP scroll that grants 300k XP that they can use on another class.

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Yeah you make no sense. Player 2 doesnt have a level 60 so he wouldn't be getting any tomes at all. And if he does have a 60, then he chose to take advantage and level an alt, while player 1 chose not to. Not unfair

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Well couldn't that then become an additional perk in having a level 60 character? Nothing is preventing anyone from reaching 60 and also enjoying this bonus, if it were to be added that is.

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it's not additional. it's how the change would have to be made if fairness is the concern.

i don't care for the change at all. my problem is 5 Esoterics are too low to get Lv 60 people to do Leveling Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

Yeah you make no sense. Player 1 doesnt have a level 60 so he wouldn't be getting any tomes at all. And if he does have a 60, then he chose to not take advantage and level an alt. Not unfair

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read the OP, my example is based on his suggestion.

i agree that the current system is fair. the OP's suggestion is what's unfair.

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Originally Posted by Squrilruler

No. This encourages different play styles. Want to level? You can do that roulette and get exp. You want tomes? Suck it up with your better gear, and help the people who are leveling. Why are people so opposed to having to make a choice?

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How is that changing play style? Changing play style would be adding WM/GB to a class... Either way you take it you'd be helping people to level, only difference is you'd be levelling an alt yourself while still getting tomes or you'd be 60 still getting tomes but losing out on levelling an alt.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

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Then that would be player's 1 problem for not going into the roulette on an alt class. Either he has no interested in levelling an alt class or just doesn't care about the exp. Either way it's not unfair because it's the player's choice.

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Originally Posted by Ranen

Then that would be player's 1 problem for not going into the roulette on an alt class. Either he has no interested in levelling an alt class or just doesn't care about the exp. Either way it's not unfair because it's the player's choice.

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so what is wrong with the current system as is?

Player 1 enters at Lv 60, gets 100 Law 5 Eso
Player 2 enters at Lv 50, gets 300k XP

By your logic "Then that would be player's 2 problem for not going into the roulette on his Lv 60 class. Either he has no more use for Tomes or just doesn't care about the Tomes. Either way it's not unfair because it's the player's choice."

why change anything?

The reward for Roulette is XP. When you can no longer get that reward, you get Tomestones instead, so that you always have a reward. When you're playing multiple jobs, you need to choose which you're focusing on at the moment and may have different reward types according to which you choose. It all seems perfectly fair to me.

If people wanted, there wouldn't be anything wrong with a system where you could choose to give up your XP reward in favor of the Tomestone reward instead even on classes that aren't level capped, but I see no reason for anyone to expect getting both for the same run.

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Originally Posted by Ranen

I'm talking about as a person who has a max level, it shouldn't matter if we run content on that max level class or on a lower level alt, we should still get the tomes so that we can still gear our mains up even if we aren't going into that roulette on the lvl 60. Sacrificing one for the other kind of thing isn't really needed imo

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So should someone who's playing all 13 jobs get 13 rewards for the run to ensure they get something for each of their jobs? This game allows a lot of multi classing opportunities and that's one of the things I love about it, but while you can alternate all you like, you need to choose which you're working on at any given moment.

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Originally Posted by Squrilruler

No. This encourages different play styles. Want to level? You can do that roulette and get exp. You want tomes? Suck it up with your better gear, and help the people who are leveling. Why are people so opposed to having to make a choice?

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Because either way you're still helping them through are you not? Whether you're helping via some form of bigger numbers or the fact you've been there dozens of times. I would think setting it up this way would encourage different play styles more, as it's not forcing you to choose one way or the other, gear up OR level up.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's not additional. it's how the change would have to be made if fairness is the concern.

i don't care for the change at all. my problem is 5 Esoterics are too low to get Lv 60 people to do Leveling Roulette.

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It would be additional. It would be a perk of having gotten through all of the relevant story at least once with one class. Now if I were to say level DoW/DoM to 60 and any future characters will have tomestones unlocked, that would be imbalanced.

And yes, I also agree that 5 is too low, wasn't it 10-15 in 2.55?

This. Want this so much. Right now I am forced to choose between law and no exp, or exp and no law. I have a level 60 WAR. I'd love to level DRG and PLD to 60 too but I can't until my WAR is fully geared. The current either/or drags out this process much longer.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

I have a level 60 WAR. I'd love to level DRG and PLD to 60 too but I can't until my WAR is fully geared.

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sure you can, you just don't want to.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

The current either/or drags out this process much longer.

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and your last sentence is probably exactly why, they need people to play the game more so they would keep subscribing. this is why there's unlikely to be any kind of change.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

and your last sentence is probably exactly why, they need people to play the game more so they would keep subscribing. this is why there's unlikely to be any kind of change.

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That's a fair statement. Though it's still interesting to see some of the ideas people come with to potentially get some change. As someone on the first page said, even awarding them at a 50% rate would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Squrilruler

No. This encourages different play styles. Want to level? You can do that roulette and get exp. You want tomes? Suck it up with your better gear, and help the people who are leveling. Why are people so opposed to having to make a choice?

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Because the tomestone cap will be a limiting factor in getting into higher level content later down the road (patch 3.1). It's impossible for someone to rush esoteric tomestones, but you can always rush leveling. That's the problem with weekly caps. It artificially inflates the worth of whatever is being capped weekly. The tomestones are worth more than the experience points even if the leveling player is oblivious to their existence.

Also, a person who is leveling would have a vested interest in capping their esoteric tomestones for the week so that if the class they are leveling is the one they want to play (aka, they are switching to a different main job), they have a tomestone reservoir for when they hit sixty to help gear up their main.

FFXIV is catered towards the casuals and they give one specific raid for the hardcore players. This still doesn't change it's a casual game. The only thing they're doing with the current method is burning people on the current content + old content. Complete casuals that only spend a few hours a day/week are repeating just one content, because they can't keep up with the hardcore players that play like 30+ hours a week.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you answered your own question. after the change 1 person can have both, the other person can't have both, that by definition is unfair.

Player 1 enters at Lv 60, gets 100 Law 5 Eso
Player 2 enters at Lv 50, gets 100 Law 5 Eso, 300k XP.

Player 2 got more, that's unfair.

to make it fair, you should give Player 1 an XP scroll that grants 300k XP that they can use on another class.

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Uhm... But if Player 1 has another class they're leveling, they can just enter on that class, like Player 2 did?

You already get the armoury bonus on all your alt jobs, I think it's fair to separate xp and tomestones.

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Originally Posted by NoahArks

FFXIV is catered towards the casuals and they give one specific raid for the hardcore players. This still doesn't change it's a casual game. The only thing they're doing with the current method is burning people on the current content + old content. Complete casuals that only spend a few hours a day/week are repeating just one content, because they can't keep up with the hardcore players that play like 30+ hours a week.

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Don't mean to sound like an ass; sorry if I do, but what does this even have to do with the OP? This isn't about a mundane label attached to players or anyone's perceptions of how other players should be labeled.

I like the OP's idea. It's not like those 5 eso tomes are going to make us gear up faster when there's a weekly cap in place.