Not asking for any spoilers, but I haven't touched coil at all, and not being a LEgacy character and the PC presumably being not from Eorzea ((I believe the game only states that you are not from your starting city, but still))it is possible that My character's greatest interaction with Bahamut is the Roar at the end of ARR's main section. And the destruction, I suppose.
So I am curious, I needn't be told HOW it is explained, but rather how well, is there a justification for how we can invoke the Dreadwyrm without having beaten it ((Maybe)) as opposed to having needed to beat up the other Primals to be able to summon them?
Summoner and The Dreadwyrm.
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07-14-2015, 03:23 AMChazNatloSummoner and The Dreadwyrm.
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07-14-2015, 03:52 AMDarkstride
Iceheart never defeated Shiva, yet she is able to invoke her power. Defeating a Primal isn't necessarily a requirement for summoning primal power, as there can be varying methods.
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07-14-2015, 04:06 AMCilia
Minor spoilers, and going out on a limb, but...
Primals aren't really gods and goddesses, they're thoughtforms given physical manifestations via prayer and aether, and they always exist in the aether. Even if you never personally witnessed Bahamut or fought him, you would still know of him, so it's not impossible to invoke him.
Besides, the Dreadwyrm Trance isn't the same as summoning an egi - you're temporarily allowing Bahamut (the primal) to influence your actions and abilities, not summoning a miniaturized incarnation of him. There's also some of his aether lingering around in Mor Dhona, I think. Haven't touched SMN since I hit 50 back in ARR, so take what I say with a grain of salt. -
07-14-2015, 04:40 AMAnonymoose
In the LV58 Job Quest for SMN, Y'mhitra explains your interaction with Bahamut aether, and there's actually a flag that changes the explanation based on the experiences of your character.
Legacy
You were there at the Battle of Carteneau. You were there on the day of the Calamity when aether infused with the dragon's essence rained down upon the field.
Non-Legacy
On the day of the Calamity, the dragon vanished in an explosion so massive that his aether was carried to the far corners of Eorzea. You, among many others, have already been touched by his essence.
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07-14-2015, 05:24 AMdragoelete... now i rlly dont get it as when i went through it i got the legacy explanation... problem is i wasnt part of legacy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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07-14-2015, 05:51 AMAnonymoose
Were you part of 1.0? And, if so, did you complete United We Stand? That's usually the flag to look for for anyone who claims you were at Cartenau. It's become associated with the term Legacy even though it has nothing to do with having Legacy Campaign status. I should use the old terms we used back when it caused a lot of confusion, lol.
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07-14-2015, 06:21 AMdragoelete
nope wasnt part of 1.0 ... i saw it on youtube and twitch and stuff and knew my computer at that time would have given up on me... even now my current computer barely keeps up...
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07-15-2015, 04:33 PMEulIf it's about the cutscene, my cutscene is like the Legacy story, but I'm Non-Legacy player...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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07-15-2015, 04:38 PMAnonymoose
Hmmm...
Perhaps I've made an incorrect assumption about the text-switch flag. But then why would it choose to tell people they were at Cartenau that, as far as the game is concerned, were not? (You didn't get the intro to the game where you're "warped in" from Cartenau, right? You got the merchant meeting?)
Might also be a bug... -
07-15-2015, 04:41 PMEulQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Well my character and Y'mithra gather at Ul'dah airship to go to Cartenau for the Dreadwyrm Trance meditation. As far as I remember, I didn't meet any merchant. Or do you mean merchant that attacked by other summoner?
EDIT: edit for spoiler -
07-15-2015, 06:25 PMYasminouAnonymoose meant the introduction of A Realm Reborn, not this specific SMN quest :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eul
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07-15-2015, 10:07 PMdragoeletei got the merchant meeting i think its a bug though cause as far as i can tell it shouldnt have done that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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07-15-2015, 10:49 PMToranja
Because they changed their minds about the Primals and are going all willy nilly about it now. The alternative being they have always gone willy nilly about it.
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07-16-2015, 01:00 AMDyvidHonestly, SE needed some kind of lore to justify the trance rather than an actually pet. Basically Bahamut infused Aether rained down on Eorzea citizen, legacy or not, so you were touched by a defeated Bahamut essence. By mediating on the image that you remember of Bahamut (Summons are imagination creatures now...) you are able to draw upon the Dreadwyrm.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazNatlo
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07-16-2015, 06:13 AMSaintAjoraI remember that at some point we were told that story-wise, if you played in 1.0 at all, you eventually ended up at the Battle of Carteneau, even if game-wise you hadn't made it there yet. (That was why we figured we'd all get the different entrance, before we were told it was only for those who completed a certain quest. Yes, I am still a little bitter about it. :x)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Maybe this quest is still going by that.
I guess that still wouldn't explain getting the merchant entrance, if you were at Carteneau, though...
Maybe it could just be a bug. :\ -
07-16-2015, 09:25 AMDeaAzeyma
Hey Dyvid, can you pls tell me the origin/anime of your signature? It´s kinda fascinating to me :)
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07-16-2015, 11:49 AMAnonymooseWhile the game usually goes by the United We Stand flag when making changes (a la Minfilia, Cid, or Coil), and while this may be a bug related to that flag and not simply a 1.0 check (going by the fact that people who didn't even play 1.0 are getting it), I don't think it by necessity means that you weren't at Cartenau period. When trying to properly understand the mechanics of 1.0 players (unless I'm forgetting something) the game leaves the door open, lore-wise, to think whatever you want of your character. All it means is that you weren't one of the people standing by Louisoix's side, ripped out of time, and deposited outside Amdapor Keep.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintAjora
Merlwyb called for Maelstrom forces to cover the retreat of the Foreign Levy (aka Adventurers), and I suspect the other Companies gave similar orders. Plenty of adventurers fled Cartenau and were alive for the five years the game was down. They took part in what the Warriors of Light missed (and when I say Warriors of Light here, I mean those who vanished from peoples memories and inspired the name that would one day be used for Hydaelyn's champion). As far as I remember, there's plenty of room for people with the Echo (original Path Members) to have fled Cartenau safely.
Actually, I'm still actually kind of unclear what happened to some of the members of the Path of the Twelve, lol. Una Tayuun shows up wondering why nobody remembers who she is, but she herself barely remembers anything about the Path of the Twelve or her allies within it. I'm not sure whether the implication is that she, like you, came out of the rift, or if they're all just fuzzy from Louisoix's alter the fabric of reality stunt.
That said, I noticed the text reading DB websites and watching YouTube; I might have just misunderstood what was going on, lol.
Bug or not has yet to be determined. -
07-16-2015, 02:57 PMDyvidMacross PlusQuote:
Originally Posted by DeaAzeyma
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07-22-2015, 11:24 PMTinyRedLeafI was a 1.0 player, but I never made it to the United We Stand patch. So, as far as the game is concerned, Lyland Battersea isn't a legacy character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
And I can confirm that I got the non-legacy explanation from Y'mhitra.
Frankly though, I would have much preferred if the game used a different flag, namely...
(Final Coil of Bahamut spoiler)
...by checking whether you've received the "Final Witness" achievement from defeating Bahamut Prime.
That would make so much more sense, I thought, given Y'mhitra's traditional approach to acquiring the egis.
In any case, I've decided to ignore large chunks of the post-50 machinist and summoner job quests because they don't fit in with the way I imagined the story to have unfolded for my character, so I'm not as bothered by apparent inconsistencies as other players are.
(My head-canon for Lyland, incorporating minor Heavensward MSQ spoilers)
In Lyland's case, it was Matoya who taught him the basics of the summoner's trance, which is not as far-fetched as it may seem, given her apparent knowledge of Allagan technology and arcane entities. Y'mhitra would later go on to teach the Dreadwyrm Trance in order to fight the Ascian of the Twelth Chalice.
The reason I adapted it this way was that I found it jarring for Lyland to be going on a sidequest in Ul'dah, when he ought to have been fully involved in either the journey to Sohm Al or the Dravanian Hinterlands. And in my mind, Lyland had no way yet of knowing that he wasn't a fugitive of the law in Ul'dah, so it was somewhat ridiculous for him to be walking around in the city in bright daylight, and communicating with an Immortal Flames officer.
Yes, I know the in-game reason for why the Scions were not being persecuted in any of the three city-states. But I felt the reason to be absolutely lame, so I've also decided to ignore it in my head-canon. ;)
And the even more important reason: the post-50 summoner job quests could not, in my mind, have happened during the events of the Heavensward MSQs, given Y'mhitra's total lack of reference to Y'shtola during its entire length. Given her key role in bringing back Y'shtola from the Lifestream, I found it impossible to reconcile Y'mhitra's apparent ignorance of Y'shtola's plight, even as events were unfolding in the main scenario.
The only way to reconcile this, I felt, was to either place the events of the post-50 quests before or after the Heavensward MSQ. I chose to go with after.