Level 50 Zones need to reward experience...

Some of my favorite dungeons are the level 50 ones, for my second 50-60 I would love to do these zones however I feel like I am punished because you get absolutely nothing for doing them. If you don't have the high level que unlocked you have to do tons of zones just to unlock it and they are all worthless experience wise!

Need is such a strong word.
WANT would fit that statement better

The dungeons themselve don't reward experience?

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Originally Posted by Chukkaque

The dungeons themselve don't reward experience?

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Nope. None at all.

huh that does seem silly. Especially since, I believe, the dungeons up to lvl 49 give out experience. And the new ones do as well. So they should as well.

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Originally Posted by Zodiar

Need is such a strong word.
WANT would fit that statement better

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level 50 zones want to reward experience????

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Originally Posted by bideogames

level 50 zones want to reward experience????

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See, even THEY agree with me!

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Originally Posted by Chukkaque

The dungeons themselve don't reward experience?

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Only if you never cleared it with that job before.

And the logical reason for this is so players aren't spamming them to powerlevel. It's still level 50 content, which you need for the storyline bits to get to HW.

But it's mostly a jokey faceroll now that item sync is to HQ.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Only if you never cleared it with that job before.

And the logical reason for this is so players aren't spamming them to powerlevel. It's still level 50 content, which you need for the storyline bits to get to HW.

But it's mostly a jokey faceroll now that item sync is to HQ.

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But, people powerlevel with level 51-59 dungeons... I see no point.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Only if you never cleared it with that job before.

And the logical reason for this is so players aren't spamming them to powerlevel. It's still level 50 content, which you need for the storyline bits to get to HW.

But it's mostly a jokey faceroll now that item sync is to HQ.

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Ohhh actually that does make sense.

The level 50 dungeons are a joke, the 51+ dungeons are slightly less of a joke. They want you to level in the 51+ dungeons so you can learn to play your job properly and quit wiping to Alexander normal mode so much.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

The level 50 dungeons are a joke, the 51+ dungeons are slightly less of a joke. They want you to level in the 51+ dungeons so you can learn to play your job properly and quit wiping to Alexander normal mode so much.

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Whatcha talkin bout? This has nothing to do with that topic.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

But, people powerlevel with level 51-59 dungeons... I see no point.

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People also derpowerollevel in Northern Thanalan, but that's what bots and lazy kids do. It requires no skill to just faceroll over content, especially content that you're overgeared for, so the botters just kill easy stuff to level their bots.

Hence why using the MSQ as a gating mechanism keeps bots out of the highest level parts of the games. You can't make a bot have any level of skill to get through the solo parts.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

People also derpowerollevel in Northern Thanalan, but that's what bots and lazy kids do. It requires no skill to just faceroll over content, especially content that you're overgeared for, so the botters just kill easy stuff to level their bots.

Hence why using the MSQ as a gating mechanism keeps bots out of the highest level parts of the games. You can't make a bot have any level of skill to get through the solo parts.

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So, I still fail to see your point. Explain why the level 50 zones exist if they don't give experience to you unless you have the roulette unlocked? It basicly means there is no point for new players to unlock the dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

So, I still fail to see your point. Explain why the level 50 zones exist if they don't give experience to you unless you have the roulette unlocked? It basicly means there is no point for new players to unlock the dungeons.

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The roulette exists to give incentive to play the old content with players who have not yet played it. Keep in mind that most of the level 50 content is optional. So it already has that going against it. Add on top that most of the reason for the Hard (level 50) dungeons to exist was to do all the obnoxious relic weapon quests.

So someone who really wants their glowing stick, is still going to do those dungeons. Hell I always do those dungeons with the relic weapon, even if the rest of the gear is stupidly overlevel. And I still go do the Alexandrite maps even though I'm likely never going to bother making any more relic weapons.

The design of the game, both the level 50 and the level 60 dungeons is for gear rewards, not experience. You get tomes for doing these. The alternatives were buying crafted gear, or doing the Crystal Tower raids. They still reward "light" for that phase of the relic weapon, but you still get poetics and law tomes when done as a roulette at level 60.

You're barking up the wrong tree if you think they should give experience. If they gave experience, players without the HW expansion could easily get to level 60 (I'm not even sure if it lets them go above 50 without it, come to think of it,) and players who have the expansion but deferred doing the storyline would get to level 58 or so before ever trying the content, thus it's "too easy" by the time they get to it.

And if you've played single player Final Fantasy games before, you'd also know that you never sit there and grind in one spot unless you can't win against the next boss. Hence you grind one or two levels and try again.

But here we have a situation where the design of the game actually lets you "get to the end" without touching the beginning of the story. In any single player game, the experience scale alone would prevent you from doing that. Either you fight "hard" monsters for large experience, or you keep stepping on bugs for little to no experience.

At any rate, some people will argue till they are blue in the face that they should be able to do something (eg skipping the MSQ, skipping "hard" dungeons) and allowing someone to repeatedly spam "already" easy content for experience doesn't help. You'll notice that most of the jobs "big AOE" is level 50. That's what keeps players from just speedpulling the "low leveling" dungeons.

It's worthwhile to run High roulette on your 60 job because it doesn't give you experience but does give you delicious law tomes.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The roulette exists to give incentive to play the old content with players who have not yet played it. Keep in mind that most of the level 50 content is optional. So it already has that going against it. Add on top that most of the reason for the Hard (level 50) dungeons to exist was to do all the obnoxious relic weapon quests.

Except to unlock the roulette they need to do all the dungeons, which the main story makes them only do a few. The dungeons are "worthless" unless you do high level roulette. The main story gives better gear.

So someone who really wants their glowing stick, is still going to do those dungeons. Hell I always do those dungeons with the relic weapon, even if the rest of the gear is stupidly overlevel. And I still go do the Alexandrite maps even though I'm likely never going to bother making any more relic weapons.

The design of the game, both the level 50 and the level 60 dungeons is for gear rewards, not experience. You get tomes for doing these. The alternatives were buying crafted gear, or doing the Crystal Tower raids. They still reward "light" for that phase of the relic weapon, but you still get poetics and law tomes when done as a roulette at level 60.

Level 50 Main Story Quests give you a full set of ilvl 110 gear now. ilvl 90 gear is worthless.

You're barking up the wrong tree if you think they should give experience. If they gave experience, players without the HW expansion could easily get to level 60 (I'm not even sure if it lets them go above 50 without it, come to think of it,) and players who have the expansion but deferred doing the storyline would get to level 58 or so before ever trying the content, thus it's "too easy" by the time they get to it.

And if you've played single player Final Fantasy games before, you'd also know that you never sit there and grind in one spot unless you can't win against the next boss. Hence you grind one or two levels and try again.

But here we have a situation where the design of the game actually lets you "get to the end" without touching the beginning of the story. In any single player game, the experience scale alone would prevent you from doing that. Either you fight "hard" monsters for large experience, or you keep stepping on bugs for little to no experience.

At any rate, some people will argue till they are blue in the face that they should be able to do something (eg skipping the MSQ, skipping "hard" dungeons) and allowing someone to repeatedly spam "already" easy content for experience doesn't help. You'll notice that most of the jobs "big AOE" is level 50. That's what keeps players from just speedpulling the "low leveling" dungeons.

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Sorry, your points kind of stink. I will explain why. =)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

So, I still fail to see your point. Explain why the level 50 zones exist if they don't give experience to you unless you have the roulette unlocked? It basicly means there is no point for new players to unlock the dungeons.

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First off, they are lv 50 DUNGEONS.
Second, there are good pieces to glamor with in those dungeons as well as crafting mats that makes it far from pointless
And even if they added exp to them, they would probably make it give crap exp to get people to do HQ dungeons

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Sorry, your points kind of stink. I will explain why. =)

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You only need to clear them once to enable the high level roulette. You don't need to keep doing them for all the other time-sinky stuff. Hell today I got Haukke hard, and I hadn't played it since I last needed it for the first relic weapon. I was doing "hard" roulette rarely before because I had no need of the tomes, all I needed was the stupid maps from Extreme... which are now rewarded from high level roulette because the previous expert roulette dungeons were folded into it. But I already got all the Alexandrite I needed for that weapon two weeks before 3.0 came out. I wasn't able to finish it for a while because all the III materia was 100,000's of gil a piece.

There's no doubt that players may still want to spam some of these if they want to do the relic quest for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Zodiar

First off, they are lv 50 DUNGEONS.
Second, there are good pieces to glamor with in those dungeons as well as crafting mats that makes it far from pointless
And even if they added exp to them, they would probably make it give crap exp to get people to do HQ dungeons

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The level 51-60 gear has the same glamour as the dungeons with the addition they are also colourable and dyable. Again - WRONG! =D

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

You only need to clear them once to enable the high level roulette. You don't need to keep doing them for all the other time-sinky stuff. Hell today I got Haukke hard, and I hadn't played it since I last needed it for the first relic weapon. I was doing "hard" roulette rarely before because I had no need of the tomes, all I needed was the stupid maps from Extreme... which are now rewarded from high level roulette because the previous expert roulette dungeons were folded into it. But I already got all the Alexandrite I needed for that weapon two weeks before 3.0 came out. I wasn't able to finish it for a while because all the III materia was 100,000's of gil a piece.

There's no doubt that players may still want to spam some of these if they want to do the relic quest for whatever reason.

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Do 8-11 dungeons for 0 experience, or do fates and the new dungeons for a lot of experience? What would you do as a new player?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Do 8-11 dungeons for 0 experience, or do fates and the new dungeons for a lot of experience? What would you do as a new player?

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If they give so much experience, why aren't you doing them? Are you jsut seeking to complain about things at this point? You already solved your own problem with EXP for 2nd jobs with that comment alone

The technical reason why we don't get XP for lvl 50 dungeons is because it was never coded into the game. 50 was the level cap, and you couldn't do the dungeons before 50, so there was no need to code XP into those dungeons. And they decided to keep it how it was for Heavensward.

The cognitive reason why they don't give XP is that they don't want people spamming old content to level for new content. They want you to play the new content.

As for 51+ spamming FATEs in NT... well, they certainly CAN... but that's an incredibly slow way of leveling. At 14k a pop, that means roughly 286 FATEs just to go from 59-60. Even if you count the occasional Dark Devices or Chimera, you're still looking at at least 250 FATEs.

Dungeons and roulette are still the fastest way to level an alt by far.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

If they give so much experience, why aren't you doing them? Are you jsut seeking to complain about things at this point? You already solved your own problem with EXP for 2nd jobs with that comment alone

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I am simply wishing to make the game better by making more content for the game. Right now I feel that these dungeons are not content to new players because of my reasons already said. =)

I have a point, and people always get angry when I back it up. When they cannot, and then make excuses like this. ;)

Shame they don't give xp, could totally go in with a couple lvl 60 friends and sell xp runs :3 SE probably didn't want that to happen though.

I am a newer player and in order to unlock the high level roulette I would need to do 15 dungeons with no reward, with 15-30 minute queue on each as dps so I will pass on that.

I think they should make it so you just need to have all dungeons unlocked to do the roulette rather then having to actually complete them all once.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Only if you never cleared it with that job before.

And the logical reason for this is so players aren't spamming them to powerlevel. It's still level 50 content, which you need for the storyline bits to get to HW.

But it's mostly a jokey faceroll now that item sync is to HQ.

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Except, this actually doesn't work. You can basically faceroll any level sync content before 50, AND still get experience points. It's why the masses have descended upon Northern Thanalan and why Aurum Vale is suddenly much busier than it ought to be, given it's former popularity.

All this has done so far is encourage players to NOT play the level 50 dungeons at all except maybe once per day for either the one-off XP or the law tomes (most likely the latter). And, as mentioned, players still working on unlocking all of these dungeons will lose interest a lot faster when the rewards are meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Daranion

If they give so much experience, why aren't you doing them? Are you jsut seeking to complain about things at this point? You already solved your own problem with EXP for 2nd jobs with that comment alone

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1) This doesn't actually address the problem, it just skirts around it.
2) Between the levels of 50-51 you can't even run the new dungeons anyway, so you'll be stuck either Fate grinding, running level-sync dungeons or leves.

People seem to think that not mentioning these glaring issues makes them magically disappear. People complain because there's an issue that needs fixing, and this one is such a huge oversight for such a stupid reason that it begs suspension of disbelief. All of the arguments as to why the level 50 dungeons should not grant XP are voided when you consider that it's the ONLY content which has this restriction.

You know the easiest way to solve this, is to just give large chunk of XP after every bosses, 45k-80k each bosses, maybe for a total of 150k-225k depending on which dungeons. Or just give us a big fat XP only after completion similar to how Duty Roulette high level works. This way, people can use those level 50 endgame dungeon as an alternate ways to farm vanity gears, craft materials and (useless) poetic tome and getting decent xp in return. Easy solution, suddenly you have TONS of content to XP from 50-60 that is not just the 5 new dungeons (you will get sick and tired of it eventually).

Let's look at what would happen if 50 dungeons gave XP:

The 50 Dungeons can be facerolled incredibly easily. Much more so than 51+ new dungeons can. So instead of playing the 51-55 new Dungeons, people would just spam the lvl 50 dungeons. Talk about wasted development time.

I do sympathize for the new players that have to play the 50 dungeons to unlock the Roulette. Though at the same time, I don't. I had to do all those 50 dungeons without gaining XP too. I suppose you could make an argument that 50 dungeons should give XP if everyone was granted an amount of "Free XP" to distribute amongst their classes based on how many times they ran 50 dungeons before Heavensward. That would be fair.

What I think they should do is make High level roulette unlock just by unlocking the dungeon in the DF. That would avoid the problem of new players feeling they're "not getting anything" by running the dungeons, and allow them to keep XP out of them.

I have to agree with OP on this. It's just dumb that lv 50 content doesn't yield exp. How does me leveling in the new dungeons any different from a lv 50 dungeon? I still can't use all of my skills. I still say I should get exp even at 60 even if the bar says empty/full w/e. Even if it says EXP filled or says I gain exp but doesn't add to the bar, We all know there will be a level beyond 60 at some point. It's dumb that I gotta waste time in a roulette, to get a dungeon that doesn't yield exp, to get nothing but a waste of 20-30 mins of my time.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

So, I still fail to see your point. Explain why the level 50 zones exist if they don't give experience to you unless you have the roulette unlocked? It basicly means there is no point for new players to unlock the dungeons.

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The same reason why they existed before HW.
Story dungeons, tomes & glamour gears farming and roulette.

Also I posted Yoshidas explanation already to you: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3055889

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I have to agree with OP on this. It's just dumb that lv 50 content doesn't yield exp. How does me leveling in the new dungeons any different from a lv 50 dungeon? I still can't use all of my skills.

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Just look at Northen Thanalan what would happen

Queue time for lv51-60 dungeons will increase because everyone is farming lv 50 dungeons within 10-15 minutes

They need to buff exp and add it to other places. But they can balance it out. Maybe not have each dungeon give the same amount, maybe only the last boss giving a real decent chunk.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

They need to buff exp and add it to other places. But they can balance it out. Maybe not have each dungeon give the same amount, maybe only the last boss giving a real decent chunk.

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Natural order, any attempt to do this will only lead to people doing the most efficient. Welcome back WP speed runs?

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Natural order, any attempt to do this will only lead to people doing the most efficient. Welcome back WP speed runs?

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I'd say the biggest exp gains should be from story required dungeons, then highest level ones, and the trickle down to mayb 40% of the highest levels ones for the lowest level ones.

It's utterly idiotic that you can grind XP in N-tan fates but a lv 50 dungeon grants nothing.

Variety is the spice of life and if you want to level a second job you currently have none (Remember, you needed all quests for your main job).
Run the few HW dungeons at nauseum or grind boring fates.

This should be fixed ASAP.

Actually IIRC, SE clearly said that they WILL add EXP to the level 50 dungeons after a while.
But now they want people to mainly do new content, so that there is as much people there as possible.
Once more players start hitting 60 full-gear, and focus more on their other classes, lvl 50 dungeons will start giving EXP.

And yeah, basically the only "dead" zone where you have no dungeons to level on, and have to either use roulettes (hey, Main Story roulette doesn't give Law, use that on secondary jobs...), farm AV, or farm FATEs, is 50-51, once you are over that, you are set.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

And yeah, basically the only "dead" zone where you have no dungeons to level on, and have to either use roulettes (hey, Main Story roulette doesn't give Law, use that on secondary jobs...), farm AV, or farm FATEs, is 50-51, once you are over that, you are set.

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Good to know, thanks.
My problem is that you have so few Dungeons available while there are a ton of fun dungeons left to rot.

I had the exact same problem with the alexandrite grind back in the day. Why limit me to 3 dungeons when you have so many of them? For me Dungeons are the best part of this game next to MSQ and I don't want to be limited to 1 or 3 and farm them till I can't stand them anymore.

As it looks now I'll have to farm Dusk Vigil from 51 to 53. :/