Bard 60 Rotation / How to use WM Suggestions?

Ok guys so all there seems to be is crying about how SE has broken Bards with WM but since its not going to disappear I guess we just have to deal with it ( Either use it or don't) for those that are using WM just wondering what's your rotation your using / situation. I've been trying to work out how to add it into my rotation since well we have 2 moves that we've been given that connects to it and seems a shame not to use them at all and just stick to old rotation with sidewinder added in.
(Before rage just so you know I don't really like WM but will be trying to use it either way)

So far all ive managed to come up with is start fight with WM off
then:
Straight shot>Blood for blood>Internal Release>Wind bite>Flaming Arrow>Venomous Bite>Wanderer's Minuet>Empyreal Arrow>Sidewinder>Heavy shot>Blood Letter>then just go into a priority rotation from then on and use iron jaws when wind bite gets to 3 sec to allow for delay or any lag, if I need to move or its a boss that requires a lot of movement I just switch off and start rotation from beginning when its not as movement heavy..
Don't know how good this rotation is as ps4 can't have a parser
Any that have tested your own rotation with parser, feedback on how it would be great
Also all I've tested this on is dummy / The Fractal Continuum
Haven't tried WM in Ex's yet if you have give us a yell on how it went

http://angered.guildwork.com/forum/t...ide-by-krietor

I still use this old opener but of course empyreal arrow used with barrage. My dummy parses look terrible though. with no pots,food,party,drg or miseries end I get like 850 with ilvl 177 and hive bow. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I've heard of ppl getting 1k+ at the dummy and I'd love it if those people could maybe offer advice.

Out of curiosity why are you not starting your rotation with WM already turned on? Also one obvious thing is use BA>EA not just EA within our starting rotation.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

http://angered.guildwork.com/forum/t...ide-by-krietor

I still use this old opener but of course empyreal arrow used with barrage. My dummy parses look terrible though. with no pots,food,party,drg or miseries end I get like 850 with ilvl 177 and hive bow. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I've heard of ppl getting 1k+ at the dummy and I'd love it if those people could maybe offer advice.

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if 1K 3mins I am pretty certain it has party/food/pot/drg or just drg buff

3mins refers to 3mins sharp right before all your buffs are about to be aligned again - parses ending 3:30 are usually pushed upwards at the end because of a big round of burst past 3mins mark.

Nonetheless after the WM changes, 3mins parses with Hive Bow and IL anywhere from 175-180 should easily cross you over the 900 mark with no party/food/pot/drg

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Originally Posted by Kaorii

Straight shot>Blood for blood>Internal Release>Wind bite>Flaming Arrow>Venomous Bite>Wanderer's Minuet>Empyreal Arrow>Sidewinder>Heavy shot>Blood Letter>then just go into a priority rotation

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EA is kind of ofcd ability, so it should be be inbetween gcd abilities (unless there is a barrage)

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

if 1K 3mins I am pretty certain it has party/food/pot/drg or just drg buff

3mins refers to 3mins sharp right before all your buffs are about to be aligned again - parses ending 3:30 are usually pushed upwards at the end because of a big round of burst past 3mins mark.

Nonetheless after the WM changes, 3mins parses with Hive Bow and IL anywhere from 175-180 should easily cross you over the 900 mark with no party/food/pot/drg

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I'm doing something very wrong then, coz I'm not breaking 900 solo/no pots/no food/no miseries/no drg >< it's like 870 at best( hive bow,ilvl 177 )

I can't use WM after my opener in fights without losing dps still. I'd love to hear from a good bard on how they use this song.

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Originally Posted by Cirgellon

I can't use WM after my opener in fights without losing dps still. I'd love to hear from a good bard on how they use this song.

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I consider myself one of the top bards I have at least seen on Behemoth. There are better ones though but not many. :P

Anyways the way I have started using WM since patch:

WM is on open with Foe Requiem battle voiced. SS -> BL -> HS -> IR -> WB -> RS -> VA -> HE -> SS(most likely) -> B4B -> IJ -> Barrage -> EA -> SW (repeat rotation or turn of WM if movement coming and go back to 2.X rotation). It's hard to say bard has a rotation besides a standard opening pattern since bard is generally reactionary and OGCD management.

Part of the glaring issues with WM now as well is that it makes BL procs really inefficient. Since we can only weave 1 OGCD in now as opposed to 2 pre-3.0 it makes it really difficult to set up your buffs and not waste any potential BL procs you get without wasting GCD time. So ya that opener takes a while and any BL procs kind of shake it up some but it's definitely important to use them when you get them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._new_rotation/

If you scroll down the page you'll see a guy giving an interesting opener. Doesn't have wm on from the start. Also provides parses 1k+ in alex turns.

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Originally Posted by LLamaPie

Snip

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I do something similar along this rotation but I have been seeing alot of people talking about opening with buffs being stacked (RS+B4B or RS+IE). I'm not sure if it is better or not because I have not tried myself.

Purely hypothetical opener 'cause I can't play for rather long time, but here goes. I'm assuming that I'm already playing BV'd Foe.

Start with minuet on: HE+RS+EA->Minuet off+BL+BfB+SS->IR+Repelling Shot+Minuet on+wb->Dex-pot+Flaming Arrow+VB->Blunt Arrow+Sidewinder+HS(x2-3)->Barrage+EA->BL+IJ->usual priority-based master-weaving.

There are a few things in a dire need of tweaks but eh.

Reasoning behind this opener:

1. I want to use EA as soon as possible to give myself a good jump in DPS.
2. BL needs to be on CD. Having it off CD always makes me want to press it... Anyway, if I'm cool enough BL still gets x1.3 multiplier. If not, can change the order, so whatever.
3. Switching off Minuet gives me some breathing room for Repelling Shot. Tbh, I'd only use the toggle for heavy-movement phases or for Repelling Shot...
4. This order of DoT's makes me only lose some potency on wb.
5. I'm pairing up Blunt Arrow and Sidewinder to avoid losing potency on Sidewinder. Besides, they both have very short animations.
6. I honestly feel that using just Barrage'd EA without any other buffs is a waste.
7. Dex-pot should make aiming the FA a bit easier 'cuz tank should already have chosen the proper position for boss.

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Originally Posted by Elikzords

I do something similar along this rotation but I have been seeing alot of people talking about opening with buffs being stacked (RS+B4B or RS+IE). I'm not sure if it is better or not because I have not tried myself.

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I've done that. Makes opening burst greater but otherwise doesn't up dps.

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Originally Posted by Viar

-snip-

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One thing will say is the rotation doesn't add up in terms of the off/on for WM. You might be forgetting the 15 second CD on it. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think "BL+BfB+SS->IR+Repelling Shot" adds up to 15 seconds total cast time.

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Originally Posted by Viar

HE+RS+EA->Minuet off+BL+BfB+SS->IR+Repelling Shot+Minuet on+wb->Dex-pot+Flaming Arrow+VB->Blunt Arrow+Sidewinder+HS(x2-3)->Barrage+EA->BL+IJ->usual priority-based master-weaving..

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Looks interesting. I gotta say though I think double ogcds in wm is a hard loss.

I do: wm+rs+he+b4b+bL( as tank pulls ) >SS>ir>WB>fa>VB>b>EA>sw>HS>ba>IJ>repelling>>HS

MrYaah suggests wm off until just before EA, so I might try that too.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._new_rotation/

If you scroll down the page you'll see a guy giving an interesting opener. Doesn't have wm on from the start. Also provides parses 1k+ in alex turns.

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That amount of multi-dot management on A1, I need to git gud and learn too.

Mr Yaah is around this forums too and he's pretty capable of producing some of the highest BRD parses around.

For A2 I've done 1K+ DPS too - multi-dot AoE spam and hope that you kill it fast enough before you ran out of both MP for Paeon and Invigorate/Goad and becomes a sitting duck.

My A3 is about 70DPS behind him but my run was 2 mins longer, puts a bit of dent to my numbers due to transition in phases.

In general his kill time is very good. Both his A1/A4 are 5mins+ runs. One of the grp in my FC also runs them at low 5mins and their BRD also pulls 900 upwards on those turns. Fast kill times = lesser transition/downtimes and you have to be very good with your IJ timing to ensure that they don't keep overclipping or allowing the DoTs to fall off.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

I'm doing something very wrong then, coz I'm not breaking 900 solo/no pots/no food/no miseries/no drg >< it's like 870 at best( hive bow,ilvl 177 )

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Check if you mistimed your IJ causing overclips or dropping them, one of the main culprits.

Another major reason is the choices you make when you are faced with situations where your OGCDs line up, which probably takes a lot more practice on.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

That amount of multi-dot management on A1, I need to git gud and learn too.

Mr Yaah isaround this forums too and he's pretty capable of producing some of the highest BRD parses around.

For A2 I've done 1K+ DPS too - multi-dot AoE spam and hope that you kill it fast enough before you ran out of both MP for Paeon and Invigorate/Goad and becomes a sitting duck.

My A3 is about 70DPS behind him but my run was 2 mins longer, puts a bit of dent to my numbers due to transition in phases.

In general his kill time is very good. Both his A1/A4 are 5mins+ runs. One of the grp in my FC also runs them at low 5mins and their BRD also pulls 900 upwards on those turns. Fast kill times = lesser transition/downtimes and you have to be very good with your IJ timing to ensure that they don't keep overclipping or allowing the DoTs to fall off.



Check if you mistimed your IJ causing overclips or dropping them, one of the main culprits.

Another major reason is the choices you make when you are faced with situations where your OGCDs line up, which probably takes a lot more practice on.

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I actually manged to beat my parses on most of those turns today. If you feel like tracking how my dps is on all the turns im going to keep this doc pretty up to date through all of alex. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

I actually manged to beat my parses on most of those turns today. If you feel like tracking how my dps is on all the turns im going to keep this doc pretty up to date through all of alex. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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Cool stuff. Your A1 numbers are insane though. If you don't mind how many sets of dots are you managing? The adds die so fast IDK if it was worth it to apply DoT on them, currently I am just upkeeping on the 2 fat bosses only

What happened to the later A3/A4 runs tho? noticed it is quite different from your peak runs.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Cool stuff. Your A1 numbers are insane though. If you don't mind how many sets of dots are you managing? The adds die so fast IDK if it was worth it to apply DoT on them, currently I am just upkeeping on the 2 fat bosses only

What happened to the later A3/A4 runs tho? noticed it is quite different from your peak runs.

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for A1 I just do dots on the two bosses, focusing my heavyshots on whichever one the drg is on.

For A3 I've only done like 2 runs on bard not including my very first clear, so I just dont think I've got a good run. As for A4 I think its really rng and depends on if I get sucked up or not. Its a pretty huge dps loss to get sucked up (se plz). These samplesizes are still really small and even on consistent fights you generally see a pretty large range between the good and bad parses.

Also on that last A3 parse they pulled when I was afk and I died halfway through the fight sooooooo. yeah.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

One thing will say is the rotation doesn't add up in terms of the off/on for WM. You might be forgetting the 15 second CD on it. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think "BL+BfB+SS->IR+Repelling Shot" adds up to 15 seconds total cast time.

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Incorrect. CD starts when you toggle it on, not off. Since you start with it on, with it being ready for another toggle, it'd work. Just hope that none of your skills will suddenly decide to cancel because LoS...

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Looks interesting. I gotta say though I think double ogcds in wm is a hard loss.

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I've yet to try it in actual raid situations, so eh, it's still up in the air. Just having fun with theorycraft and trying to coordinate my GCD's with my DRG's BL&Disembowel.

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

for A1 I just do dots on the two bosses, focusing my heavyshots on whichever one the drg is on.

For A3 I've only done like 2 runs on bard not including my very first clear, so I just dont think I've got a good run. As for A4 I think its really rng and depends on if I get sucked up or not. Its a pretty huge dps loss to get sucked up (se plz). These samplesizes are still really small and even on consistent fights you generally see a pretty large range between the good and bad parses.

Also on that last A3 parse they pulled when I was afk and I died halfway through the fight sooooooo. yeah.

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A4 is pretty annoying for me because for the 3 runs I have done I am ALWAYS the damn DPS that gets sucked inside all the time :/

A3 can be a little chaotic with the +/- and I noticed the adds phase puts a dent to the DPS numbers, prob need more familiarization to optimize output. I think A3 should be capable of 900+ upwards too, just saw an A3 parse where the BRD did 895.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

A4 is pretty annoying for me because for the 3 runs I have done I am ALWAYS the damn DPS that gets sucked inside all the time :/

A3 can be a little chaotic with the +/- and I noticed the adds phase puts a dent to the DPS numbers, prob need more familiarization to optimize output. I think A3 should be capable of 900+ upwards too, just saw an A3 parse where the BRD did 895.

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Yea I managed to parse 895 A3 on mch already and I dont really feel like im a good mch or anything or that it has a particularly big advantage over bard in that fight.

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

Yea I managed to parse 895 A3 on mch already and I dont really feel like im a good mch or anything or that it has a particularly big advantage over bard in that fight.

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I have both MCH/BRD too. I'm pretty bad at MCH but nonetheless I think MCH is a much more fluid job compared to BRD and MCH certainly have advantage in movement requirements.

And I do feel that when given the same player with equal mastery of both MCH and BRD job, MCH should produce a slightly better DPS number.

try check this out.. this dude claim he can do 956 with ilvl 177 + hive bow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnpeVTbVGE

Did some farming of A3/A4 last night.

Getting ~790 parses on A3 with no DRG. 6:50-7:00 encounter time.
849 was my best on A4, no DRG, 6m.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

try check this out.. this dude claim he can do 956 with ilvl 177 + hive bow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnpeVTbVGE

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He has party and pot. Pretty average. I can break 900 now after 3 mins w/o party/pot/misery etc, not easy though. ( also 177 with hive bow )

feels like sometimes when u reach the end of your cast , theres just so many things that need to be done zz.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

He has party and pot. Pretty average. I can break 900 now, not easy though. ( also 177 with hive bow )

feels like sometimes when u reach the end of your cast , theres just so many things that need to be done zz.

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To be noted that that vid was done before WM was changed.

I think highest I've got no party/pot/food/drg was 980 3mins.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

To be noted that that vid was done before WM was changed.

I think highest I've got no party/pot/food/drg was 980 3mins.

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really? I get so overwhelmed by these ogcds, rarely feel satisfied after a parse now. Gotta get gud I guess xD

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

really? I get so overwhelmed by these ogcds, rarely feel satisfied after a parse now. Gotta get gud I guess xD

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Yup, check the vid date, June 28. I've seen it just before the WM update so yeah.

The problem with WM right now is just the incompatibility with BRD's base kit which revolves around River of Blood. More often than not you end up with too many oGCDs at a time so you will need lots of practice in knowing and getting the priority oGCDs out (BL the highest) while managing your IJ refresh timing well.

I took a lot of practice on dummies as well before I raised the bar from 920 ish to 980 tops, but again that is just to let you have a bit of muscle memory and familiarization with the prioritization. Still takes even more practice in actual fights to learn to react to the different situations which is the tougher part.

No more good old days of easy moving pewpewpew - back then it used to be things like quad barrage timings, multi-dotting management and buff/song management that differentiates the top bards from the rest and now WM differentiates things even more.

Is there a current stat that should be favored at this point and time? I would think it would be skill speed but I honestly haven't seen anything about this really.

Bard does look a bit clunky compared to the changes of the rest of the classes. (no obvious burst rotation combination of skills)

Couple of questions then about how the mechanics work (haven't played Bard since messing around in T13)

Barrage -> Guaranteed Straight Shot Crit (does this work together due to the wording of Barrage?)

Iron Jaws -> Does this Reset Venom/Windbite with it's snapshotted buffs from when initially cast?

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Does the Heavier Shot proc under Minuet make Straight Shot both Critical and Instant Cast? If it only makes it Instant Cast that'd be nice if it was like a 50% chance under Minuet (and a Lower TP Cost)

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So stay in WM the whole time just to reset your Dots @ 18s (saves 1 GCD) use your extra skills. Make good use of "Face Target" for mobs running around. Try and weave your BL procs with your SS procs while under WM.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Couple of questions then about how the mechanics work (haven't played Bard since messing around in T13)

Barrage -> Guaranteed Straight Shot Crit (does this work together due to the wording of Barrage?)

Iron Jaws -> Does this Reset Venom/Windbite with it's snapshotted buffs from when initially cast?


Does the Heavier Shot proc under Minuet make Straight Shot both Critical and Instant Cast? If it only makes it Instant Cast that'd be nice if it was like a 50% chance under Minuet (and a Lower TP Cost)

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Barrage thing: no, it will force it not to be critical.
Iron jaws: no , it takes your current buffs.
Yes straighter shot is both instant and autocrit.

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Originally Posted by emmgee

Barrage thing: no, it will force it not to be critical.
Iron jaws: no , it takes your current buffs.
Yes straighter shot is both instant and autocrit.

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Thanks for the info.

So does Barrage + Heavy Shot have 3 X 20% chances to proc Straight Shot?

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Thanks for the info.

So does Barrage + Heavy Shot have 3 X 20% chances to proc Straight Shot?

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I imagine that would pretty hard to find out personally. I don't think would be any way to prove it or no obvious way I can think of tbh. I mean you could find out if proc's once but not sure if can find out if game engine ran the 20% three times, once for each shot since either way you will only have it proc's once for actual use and it won't proc again if already proc'd and still up from the original proc. Not sure if I'm being clear on what I'm trying to say.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

I imagine that would pretty hard to find out personally.

I don't think would be any way to prove it or no obvious way I can think of tbh.

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Keep using Barrage and Heavy Shot and see if you ever get any double/triple procs of Straighter Shot.

That being said, the skill says additional effects are only added once, so I'd imagine that only one of the three shots of any skill with an additional effect can only happen once. If it doesn't apply Windbite 3 times, once per shot, then...

Barrage only proc's additional effects once. Heavier shot is an additional effect.

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Originally Posted by emmgee

Barrage only proc's additional effects once. Heavier shot is an additional effect.

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I think he is asking not whether will only proc once, but whether the game engine is running the numbers three times like one for each shot within a barrage or whether only runs the numbers once on first shot within that barrage. Tbh I don't have an answer to that question but I do know it will only proc once whether the game runs the numbers once on first shot or three times across the entire barrage. I guess logically your only pressing HS once despite barrage adding an additional two shots as an outcome so it will run the numbers once maybe rather than running the numbers on each hit HS does while under barrage. So I guess you could be right depending on whether game runs it's calculations on button press/skill click rather than running it's numbers on each shot coming from barrage effect.

Yeah the actual proc could only happen once. I'm just curious if Barrage + Heavy Shot is technically a greater than 20% Chance at a Straight Shot buff.
To possibly have a higher probability of weaving your BL with an instant cast SS during WM.