Collective Unconscious is good?

I've been seeing alot of hate for this ability, and also alot of mp issue comments, so maybe this will shine some light on something you havn't thought of.

I've done all the dungeons, lvl 60 etc. In the final two dungeons with i145 gear it can be quite difficult, especially if your tank is i145 also. And then you hear many people saying we dont have things to manage mp well. Well this spell can help that alot.

Just try this before judging, in diurnal, put aspected benefic + aspected helios on tank, time dialation, celestial opposition, bole if you have it saved, then collective unconscious. 38 seconds of regen, 50 seconds of the aoe regen, and 18 seconds of CU. At my current i154 this is doing 1800 a tic!! For that 18 seconds you can pull 5-8 lvl 60 mobs, stand up, go get a soda, come back, and the pt will still be at full health even if all the aoe's have been hitting you.

Now of course this is from a MP conservation stand point, when you are sittin at 3000 mp and the mobs still have half their hp and your luminiferous is 30 seconds away. Obviously if you have the mp to still heal and dps that is preferred. But It saved my butt multiple times with low geared tanks in neverreap + the fractal continuum.

I've been using it near close to the end of pulls, when the Regen effect is more than enough to keep the tank going. Has saved me a HUGE amount of mana, allowing tanks to chain pull without me having to scream "omfg I need just TEN MORE SECONDS FOR LUMINIFEROUS *PLEASE*".

It really is pretty crappy under Nocturnal Sect, though. And in the final bosses of expert dungeons there's just too many mechanics/too much moving for it to be viable.

Blowing 2 cooldowns to increase their regen time and then using collective unconscious doesn't make it good.

It's good on trash pulls but as soon as you get to any type of content that requires moving it's awful because #1 moving cancels it immediately and #2 you can't use any skills while casting it.

In a raid setting this is a death sentence due to moving for mechanics and such. Why should I have to stand completely still and be unable to cast skills for a slightly weaker Asylum when a whm can just ground target an asylum and a sch can just ground target sacred soil. Why is ast forced to become a scarecrow to do the same exact thing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VitalSuit

Blowing 2 cooldowns to increase their regen time and then using collective unconscious doesn't make it good.

It's good on trash pulls but as soon as you get to any type of content that requires moving it's awful because #1 moving cancels it immediately and #2 you can't use any skills while casting it.

In a raid setting this is a death sentence due to moving for mechanics and such. Why should I have to stand completely still and be unable to cast skills for a slightly weaker Asylum when a whm can just ground target an asylum and a sch can just ground target sacred soil. Why is ast forced to become a scarecrow to do the same exact thing?

---

The comparisons to whm/sch are getting quite old, nither job can buff like an astro does, so we get less effective heals/abilitys. I know 100% i will find use of this move in progression content, even if it is for 10 seconds, it still saves mana during that time.

So what do you suggest, we compare AST to a Ninja, or a tank maybe? Of course we're going to compare AST and their kits and what they're capable of to the two other healing classes that their two stances are pretty much modeled after. Everyone compared WHM to SCH, hell that's why SCH received the ability to do better AoE healing and why WHM got a bubble as well.

30 Seconds before you can draw a card, RNG, how long it takes to set up the increase bonus, and is that bonus worth what the AST loses in the trade of support? Fact is while it might be fine to take an AST in some cases, in progression raiding you won't take anything but a WHM/SCH when they do what an AST does much better.

I mean SCH/WHM can just place their bubbles, but we have to channel ours, most likely for no other reason because of the lore behind the spell. I don't exactly have the answer to Collective Unconscious being so good that you don't need to be casting heals while it's up and a WHM/SCH does have to because their bubble isn't as strong or not.

This skill, lackluster as it may be, is still useful in it's own niche.

Take Ravana Extreme for example. I use it in two places (especially if I am healing with double astro), one of the places it is useful is after all the butterflies die and you're placed into the air for the phase transition (extra healing here or dmg mitigation is helpful, especially since your bubble doesn't break). After the second push-back (not the first), if I am in noct sec, I will use bubble here briefly for initial hit then I will aoe heal right after. 10% has saved people from dying outright, therefore, I deem it a useful skill to use.

Again, few and far between in fights will this be useful, seeing as it makes you stationary, but it is useful, and you should not overlook it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krixus

The comparisons to whm/sch are getting quite old, nither job can buff like an astro does, so we get less effective heals/abilitys. I know 100% i will find use of this move in progression content, even if it is for 10 seconds, it still saves mana during that time.

---

Lol no you won't bro. You MIGHT use it to recover from a megaflare attack that a boss does or something, or to mitigate that damage if you're nocturnal (if your raid doesnt bring a SCH for whatever reason.) but you'll never use this ability effectively in any raid. You can barely use it in dungeons before a random monster puts a fat aoe on top of the whole bubble, much less when you have to actually do mechanics and be able to heal your tanks directly.

I have found it useful in many situations. During boss fights and any encounter with unavoidable party damage I always keep Aspected Helios up and usually always Diurnal Sect. Then at certain moments when big damage is incoming I throw up CU. It's amazing.

what about the bole and spread?

the rng aspect can be argued but it is controlled rng to a degree, it is part of the mechanic

collective on its own seems inferior but if you add the bole on top of that... its 20% mitigation at least.
if the deck is well used the astro's mitigation is no joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Serret

what about the bole and spread?

the rng aspect can be argued but it is controlled rng to a degree, it is part of the mechanic

collective on its own seems inferior but if you add the bole on top of that... its 20% mitigation at least.
if the deck is well used the astro's mitigation is no joke.

---

This is one of the problems I have with all the AST complaints.

They tend to evaluate skills' effectiveness on their own, while comparing them to other healer jobs BUT assuming that other healers can and will use everything, at once, at any given time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Serret

what about the bole and spread?

the rng aspect can be argued but it is controlled rng to a degree, it is part of the mechanic

collective on its own seems inferior but if you add the bole on top of that... its 20% mitigation at least.
if the deck is well used the astro's mitigation is no joke.

---

Finally someone else that gets it! +1 for a great post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I've been using it near close to the end of pulls, when the Regen effect is more than enough to keep the tank going. Has saved me a HUGE amount of mana, allowing tanks to chain pull without me having to scream "omfg I need just TEN MORE SECONDS FOR LUMINIFEROUS *PLEASE*".

It really is pretty crappy under Nocturnal Sect, though. And in the final bosses of expert dungeons there's just too many mechanics/too much moving for it to be viable.

---

Is the heal potency over the 15 seconds really 180, though? Or am I missing something?

I can see it being useful for a few seconds to heal a few ticks/mitigate a huge AOE, but running its full 18 sec duration would be tough in a boss fight.

Yes this is an exceptional good use of collective unconsciousness, the stacking of regen abilities in Diurnal stance is fantastic and quite OP as hell. I do it a lot in DF and then get to go afk for 18 secs whilst its doing its job.

However, it does fall short in Norturnal stance. Nice for raid wide damage, bosses ultimates etc. For other things its not so good. It means that you, as a healer, have to stand in the bad to mitigate something that is targeting another party member. Imaging T13 mega flares during progression, you dont have the stack circle on you, but have to mitigate it to your maximum potential like the SCH does with succor and sacred soil, well you cant really do that in nocturnal. You cant stand in that bad yourself :(.

And just to pull apart my own argument about Nocturnal Collective Unconsciousness, we may not find these kind of mechanical scenarios in Alexander Raids, so this point may be moot, but if we do, Nocturnal Collective Unconsciousness may need tweeking.

(Now they just maybe need to do something about Celestial Opposition..........)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krixus

The comparisons to whm/sch are getting quite old, nither job can buff like an astro does, so we get less effective heals/abilitys. I know 100% i will find use of this move in progression content, even if it is for 10 seconds, it still saves mana during that time.

---

ASt card buffs arent that strong..........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nague

ASt card buffs arent that strong..........

---

Exactly. They don't make up for the potency differences no matter how you crack it.

AST buffs are outmatched by everything the SCH does.

DPS ? SCH > Ast.

healing ? SCH > Ast

Utility ? SCH > Ast (hello selene buff, hello mass dispel, hello eos aoe hot + aoe healing increase, hello Shadowflare reducing attack speed)

CD ? SCH > Ast.

Edit : which prolly means nothing except that SCH is borderline op.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JonnyBigBoss

Is the heal potency over the 15 seconds really 180, though? Or am I missing something?

---

It's 150 per tick, over 18 seconds (for a total of 6 ticks, 900 potency total).

No, the skill is good but it's just far too restricting. If they made the field linger for 6 seconds after cancelling the channel, it would be a wonderful skill. If I cancel early, I don't quite have the duration of the SCH/WHM counterparts but it doesn't completely destroy the reliability of the spell.

As of now, as soon as you have to move or if you're knocked back, the effect just ends abruptly. Also, the radius is pitiful for a skill that strips me of my mobility and spellcasting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SaintK

Lol no you won't bro. You MIGHT use it to recover from a megaflare attack that a boss does or something, or to mitigate that damage if you're nocturnal (if your raid doesnt bring a SCH for whatever reason.) but you'll never use this ability effectively in any raid. You can barely use it in dungeons before a random monster puts a fat aoe on top of the whole bubble, much less when you have to actually do mechanics and be able to heal your tanks directly.

---

Let me give you an little list of content where this IS a good spell. And I'll just pick from trials from. I wont even mention coil.
Ifrit, after the big nail goes down.
Titan, after the heart blows up. Position yourself to where you will be behind him when the tank gets threat.
Titan, again for the stomps.
Moogle, after the revival of the moogles while king does his big attack.
Leviathian, after the generator is turned on. Plenty of time until he pops up before his flop.
Ramuh, at any point you want, especially when breaking people from terror if you're the main one responsible from breaking people from it.
Shiva, at any point for her sword attack.
Bismarck while the chitin is being taken down.
Bismarck again after the dragons go down.
Bismarck again while the second chitin is being taken down.

Yes, the spell could be better.
Yes, one WHM cure 3 will do this and more.

I agree it needs to be better, but the spell is not unusable.

In all of the above situations, Asylum or Sacred Soil is still 100% better, because it allows the caster to continue casting heals/DPS.

Unusable? No.

Effective in comparison to it's counterparts? No.

It looks so cool. The first time I saw someone use it I was in awe. So pretty!

it's kinda ok on Ravana ex when he does his super attack (it does not cancel the spell)... but this move already do like no damage so whatever.

It's useable, yes, but it's not worth using when you could just use a Helios (diurnal).

I've used the regen effect only effectively in Bismarck EX while everyone else are on his back.

I've used the nocturnal sect version in Ravana EX and it's just extremely clunky to have to SPRINT to the center and barely just manage to pop it in time for Laughing Rose, and you can't even use it for both Pillars of Heaven AND Laughing Rose as you would soil.

It's EXTREMELY NICHE AND NOT WORTH IT as you cannot do anything while channeling, and Scholar/White Mage can use theirs from range with no drawbacks, while healing and properly doing mechanics etc.

tbh on bismarck you should just aspected helios (diurnal stance ofc, don't use nocturnal ever) before everybody jumps on the back and then you dps the carapace/corona and it would be enough.

I only did it with WHM (so we had both Medica 2 and A. Helios up) but i guess it works the same with a scholar since he can just spread his adloqium (spelling ?) on everyone.

Diurnal Sect with a WHM on Bismarck EX is a little overkill, I think. Rolled it for our first few clears with our static's WHM and we both had close to 40% overhealing for the fight just because of all the regen effects. Did Nocturnal for subsequent clears, and my overheal dropped to a MUCH more acceptable 15% (though hers remained about the same for some reason). I asked my cohort if she felt any more taxed by the swap, and she said no, so I'm thinking Bis just doesn't have enough back to back AOE to make all that regen doubling effective.

The diurnal affect isnt that great at all imo, but the nocturnal affect is just to imitate sacred soil for those big aoes.

I actually got to use Nocturnal CU effectively for the first time tonight- on the last story boss trial (avoiding spoilers).
When they start their 'ultimate' attack, I threw up an Aspected Helios shield and then popped the bubble- and I gotta admit it felt and looked pretty cool to be physically shielding your party from damage. Was actually fairly effective.

Shame the skill still sucks due to being too damn situational.

Edit: It's actually really good for blinding people when you're stacking for hunts, though. Go ahead. Give it a try. When you arrive at a hunt and are waiting for the pull, put up your bubble. Others will follow- and peoples eyes... they will bleed.

It would be nice if CU was a ground targeted channel ability. If I could pick where it pops up at, I wouldn't mind the 18 second channel at all. But having to center it around me really turns it into a niche spell. It is a nice ability on either sect when you hit those few niche moments as mentioned in a post on the second page, but picking where it goes would go a long way to improving it without actually having to change it.