Collective Unconscious is good?

[Krixus]

I've been seeing alot of hate for this ability, and also alot of mp issue comments, so maybe this will shine some light on something you havn't thought of.

I've done all the dungeons, lvl 60 etc. In the final two dungeons with i145 gear it can be quite difficult, especially if your tank is i145 also. And then you hear many people saying we dont have things to manage mp well. Well this spell can help that alot.

Just try this before judging, in diurnal, put aspected benefic + aspected helios on tank, time dialation, celestial opposition, bole if you have it saved, then collective unconscious. 38 seconds of regen, 50 seconds of the aoe regen, and 18 seconds of CU. At my current i154 this is doing 1800 a tic!! For that 18 seconds you can pull 5-8 lvl 60 mobs, stand up, go get a soda, come back, and the pt will still be at full health even if all the aoe's have been hitting you.

Now of course this is from a MP conservation stand point, when you are sittin at 3000 mp and the mobs still have half their hp and your luminiferous is 30 seconds away. Obviously if you have the mp to still heal and dps that is preferred. But It saved my butt multiple times with low geared tanks in neverreap + the fractal continuum.

[loreleidiangelo]

I've been using it near close to the end of pulls, when the Regen effect is more than enough to keep the tank going. Has saved me a HUGE amount of mana, allowing tanks to chain pull without me having to scream "omfg I need just TEN MORE SECONDS FOR LUMINIFEROUS *PLEASE*".

It really is pretty crappy under Nocturnal Sect, though. And in the final bosses of expert dungeons there's just too many mechanics/too much moving for it to be viable.

[JonnyBigBoss]

I've been using it near close to the end of pulls, when the Regen effect is more than enough to keep the tank going. Has saved me a HUGE amount of mana, allowing tanks to chain pull without me having to scream "omfg I need just TEN MORE SECONDS FOR LUMINIFEROUS *PLEASE*".

It really is pretty crappy under Nocturnal Sect, though. And in the final bosses of expert dungeons there's just too many mechanics/too much moving for it to be viable.

Is the heal potency over the 15 seconds really 180, though? Or am I missing something?

[loreleidiangelo]

Is the heal potency over the 15 seconds really 180, though? Or am I missing something?

It's 150 per tick, over 18 seconds (for a total of 6 ticks, 900 potency total).

[VitalSuit]

Blowing 2 cooldowns to increase their regen time and then using collective unconscious doesn't make it good.

It's good on trash pulls but as soon as you get to any type of content that requires moving it's awful because #1 moving cancels it immediately and #2 you can't use any skills while casting it.

In a raid setting this is a death sentence due to moving for mechanics and such. Why should I have to stand completely still and be unable to cast skills for a slightly weaker Asylum when a whm can just ground target an asylum and a sch can just ground target sacred soil. Why is ast forced to become a scarecrow to do the same exact thing?

[Krixus]

Blowing 2 cooldowns to increase their regen time and then using collective unconscious doesn't make it good.

It's good on trash pulls but as soon as you get to any type of content that requires moving it's awful because #1 moving cancels it immediately and #2 you can't use any skills while casting it.

In a raid setting this is a death sentence due to moving for mechanics and such. Why should I have to stand completely still and be unable to cast skills for a slightly weaker Asylum when a whm can just ground target an asylum and a sch can just ground target sacred soil. Why is ast forced to become a scarecrow to do the same exact thing?

The comparisons to whm/sch are getting quite old, nither job can buff like an astro does, so we get less effective heals/abilitys. I know 100% i will find use of this move in progression content, even if it is for 10 seconds, it still saves mana during that time.

[EchuKayu]

So what do you suggest, we compare AST to a Ninja, or a tank maybe? Of course we're going to compare AST and their kits and what they're capable of to the two other healing classes that their two stances are pretty much modeled after. Everyone compared WHM to SCH, hell that's why SCH received the ability to do better AoE healing and why WHM got a bubble as well.

30 Seconds before you can draw a card, RNG, how long it takes to set up the increase bonus, and is that bonus worth what the AST loses in the trade of support? Fact is while it might be fine to take an AST in some cases, in progression raiding you won't take anything but a WHM/SCH when they do what an AST does much better.

I mean SCH/WHM can just place their bubbles, but we have to channel ours, most likely for no other reason because of the lore behind the spell. I don't exactly have the answer to Collective Unconscious being so good that you don't need to be casting heals while it's up and a WHM/SCH does have to because their bubble isn't as strong or not.

[SaintK]

The comparisons to whm/sch are getting quite old, nither job can buff like an astro does, so we get less effective heals/abilitys. I know 100% i will find use of this move in progression content, even if it is for 10 seconds, it still saves mana during that time.

Lol no you won't bro. You MIGHT use it to recover from a megaflare attack that a boss does or something, or to mitigate that damage if you're nocturnal (if your raid doesnt bring a SCH for whatever reason.) but you'll never use this ability effectively in any raid. You can barely use it in dungeons before a random monster puts a fat aoe on top of the whole bubble, much less when you have to actually do mechanics and be able to heal your tanks directly.

[Ninimo_Babamo]

Lol no you won't bro. You MIGHT use it to recover from a megaflare attack that a boss does or something, or to mitigate that damage if you're nocturnal (if your raid doesnt bring a SCH for whatever reason.) but you'll never use this ability effectively in any raid. You can barely use it in dungeons before a random monster puts a fat aoe on top of the whole bubble, much less when you have to actually do mechanics and be able to heal your tanks directly.

Let me give you an little list of content where this IS a good spell. And I'll just pick from trials from. I wont even mention coil.
Ifrit, after the big nail goes down.
Titan, after the heart blows up. Position yourself to where you will be behind him when the tank gets threat.
Titan, again for the stomps.
Moogle, after the revival of the moogles while king does his big attack.
Leviathian, after the generator is turned on. Plenty of time until he pops up before his flop.
Ramuh, at any point you want, especially when breaking people from terror if you're the main one responsible from breaking people from it.
Shiva, at any point for her sword attack.
Bismarck while the chitin is being taken down.
Bismarck again after the dragons go down.
Bismarck again while the second chitin is being taken down.

Yes, the spell could be better.
Yes, one WHM cure 3 will do this and more.

I agree it needs to be better, but the spell is not unusable.

[Zanhe]

It's useable, yes, but it's not worth using when you could just use a Helios (diurnal).

I've used the regen effect only effectively in Bismarck EX while everyone else are on his back.

I've used the nocturnal sect version in Ravana EX and it's just extremely clunky to have to SPRINT to the center and barely just manage to pop it in time for Laughing Rose, and you can't even use it for both Pillars of Heaven AND Laughing Rose as you would soil.

It's EXTREMELY NICHE AND NOT WORTH IT as you cannot do anything while channeling, and Scholar/White Mage can use theirs from range with no drawbacks, while healing and properly doing mechanics etc.