Parry Scaling

It does not appear like parry scales off of strength any more at all I am getting a Flat 20% reduction on all hits regardless of level and strength am I missing something?

they changed it in 3.0, str and dex i think it was no longer scales with it iirc

so basically STR is only a threat increasing stat as it stands?

and Damage

And self-healing. I believe STR is where all self healing abilities gain their scaling off of for tank classes.

Yep Parry is 20% mitigation flat.

Regarding secondaries, I'm hearing a 430-450 Skill Speed requirement now for a 9 hit Berserk. Any 60 WARs with input to share?

If the stat change is due to the level cap and large item level increase (likely), safe to assume Parry secondary took a similar hit (like it wasn't difficult enough already).

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Regarding secondaries, I'm hearing a 430-450 Skill Speed requirement now for a 9 hit Berserk. Any 60 WARs with input to share?

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Can hit it @ 440+, personally. Can see 430 being fine with better ping.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

And self-healing. I believe STR is where all self healing abilities gain their scaling off of for tank classes.

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You're right. For warrior, Equilibrium and Second Wind scale with our attack power. More Strength = more healz

What I'd really like to know is the ratio of the stat to a percent chance to proc a parry. In 2.0 the parry stat was deemed worthless due to needing an astronomically high amount of parry to get 1% additional chance when those points could be instead used elsewhere for damage.

My big question revolves around its usefulness in conjunction with DRKs Dark Dance; what is the most parry we would want to get the most out of 30% increase before diminishing returns take effect.

I always really felt like axes (and now I guess great swords) should have a parry rate/strength on them, like shield has with block rate. Also feel like the new Defiance should give 4-5% parry rate per wrath. 10% is just.... negligible. Especially considering no war would sit on 5 stacks of wrath, other than saving an IB for an upcoming tank buster, or a Steel Cyclone for incoming adds, and other such things.

The description in game still claims "Affects physical melee damage, as well as damage prevented by parrying and blocking". So is this something that was in the patch notes and the description hasn't been adjusted or is STR not affecting parry an error?

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

The description in game still claims "Affects physical melee damage, as well as damage prevented by parrying and blocking". So is this something that was in the patch notes and the description hasn't been adjusted or is STR not affecting a parry an error?

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Was supposedly changed in the japanese client but not the english client. Most likely something they will fix soon. STR and DEX does nothing to parry right now.

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Originally Posted by Falgern

Was supposedly changed in the japanese client but not the english client. Most likely something they will fix soon. STR and DEX does nothing to parry right now.

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it is also changed in the german Translation (was really disapointing when i read that part...)

They botched a ton of the descriptions for different things in our version. I'm not surprised they're still as they were pre 3.0

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Originally Posted by Falgern

Was supposedly changed in the japanese client but not the english client. Most likely something they will fix soon. STR and DEX does nothing to parry right now.

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Wow if that's true this is.... scary.

It's very amateur to NOT update the text that has been updated in other languages...

Having a status description IN GAME spreading false information is absolutely unacceptable.

Shame on you Square Enix...

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Originally Posted by aerolol

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Sole Survivor had its tool tip wrong until the first hotfix :D many people tried to mark loldrg's that day

So serious, wtf does Dex do at all then?
Im guessing the parry-rate is now completely separate? So shouldn't it be at some Fixed %?

I feel like this could make parry, which was already being cosidered low-value even less sought after than before

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

I feel like this could make parry, which was already being cosidered low-value even less sought after than before

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Totally depends on the scaling. If they changed so parry scales better then it's not a bad stat. Just that it barely scaled at all during 2.0

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Originally Posted by Falgern

Totally depends on the scaling. If they changed so parry scales better then it's not a bad stat. Just that it barely scaled at all during 2.0

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I don't feel any difference in parry rate going from a class that had 0 ability to increase their parry rate (Pre HW Warrior), to a new class that has one, but hardly does anything (Drk). Mind you, this is with MORE Parry than I had back then seeing as Parry was the last thing you'd want as a Warrior.

Don't think there was any change in it's scaling. If there was, it was a really trivial amount.

Question: Does STR/DEX still affect block? If so, that might make me rage.

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

I feel like this could make parry, which was already being cosidered low-value even less sought after than before

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Has anyone done testing on Battledance (Parry) Materia on Gear?

Perhaps this change was to make the actual Parry Stat (and Materia) more useful / valuable?

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Originally Posted by Zophar

Question: Does STR/DEX still affect block? If so, that might make me rage.

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Block, as far as I know, is only effected by the paladin's shield now. Where as before we were getting like 30% block rate in 2.0, with a hybrid shield I've noticed the block amount is now around 20% and seems to sit there even when in full str gear.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Block, as far as I know, is only effected by the paladin's shield now. Where as before we were getting like 30% block rate in 2.0, with a hybrid shield I've noticed the block amount is now around 20% and seems to sit there even when in full str gear.

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Well, I'm glad to hear that at least. That would have been wildly unfair.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

Well, I'm glad to hear that at least. That would have been wildly unfair.

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Yeah. I've actually noticed the % drops on the higher level monsters, but raises when you're capped in previous dungeons. So some type of level correlation has been added in to enforce us to keep upgrading our shields as we level up or has always been there but unseen due to the stats that STR and DEX provided. But I figured they would since if shields only grew, never weaken, eventually PLD's would have a 100% block rate with some crazy high mitigation.

Because iirc blocks were up to about 30% even in FCoB. But it seems now that the 30% will only be seen with the tower shields. 20% seems to be the norm for the hybrid. I haven't used a small shield yet but I assume it would block for about 10%. In either case it would seem that tower shields may be the new best thing due to shelltron and balawk

It seems that bucklers are 20, hybrids are 25 and towers are 30 from what I see. Keep in mind ---this is fresh level 60 gear-- as i levels increase, so will block strengths.

To be clear: Hive Scutum - Tower - 28% Blocked
So this is our current 190 'tower'. Given how it performs to a lesser tower, every new level of tower should add about 1 to 2% mitigation, which means shields should be doing really well a few patches in. Also keeping in mind, Paladins lack aoe damage, manueverability, and any type of burst. They are mitigation machines, and shields are a large part of that.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Because iirc blocks were up to about 30% even in FCoB. But it seems now that the 30% will only be seen with the tower shields. 20% seems to be the norm for the hybrid. I haven't used a small shield yet but I assume it would block for about 10%. In either case it would seem that tower shields may be the new best thing due to shelltron and balawk

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Those were with 130 'balanced' shields. Lower tier towers were blocking for similar--basically the increase is small per level but there is creep where at first towers are hitting 28-32% (and can eventually get up to 40% ) but generally fall out of favor because 1) the game rarely rewards towers 2) balanced shields get up near 30% in higher ilevels and have substantially better rate. Bucklers are very seldom given out as paladin rewards for tomestones of any sort, and are generally dungeon drops.

Honestly the reduction to block rate and block% is a bit disturbing. Loosing 15% block strength compared to i130 is going to hit us hard. PLD Mitigation was based around block always has been. Here's an interesting factoid for you, I used my i170 law shield before upgrading it blocked for 20% flat no matter what. I then upgraded to i180 shield 35 or so more block str guess what yep still blocks for 20% dmg. What's the point in block STR on a shield if it blocks flat 20% dmg. I tried it with a scutum shield you get from 58 quests, yep still 20% blocked. Now either block STR is bugged or block is now capped at 20%. If this is the case then PLD just got bumped down a bunch in mitigation and it will not improve as gear does.
Honestly the point of a tank was to get better gear and more STR which increased block/parry STR. Now we don't get that so there is literally 0 scaling at all. We will get a bit of mitigation through the tiers with defense but other than that we are capped right now in mitigation. Our health will go up sure but overall we will be as squishy at ilvl 225 as we are right now just with more health. That makes for a very boring tank model as I am sure it will for many other's who enjoy the job. More testing should be done and I encourage it, As of right now though something needs to change cause tanks just got gutted otherwise.

I'm pretty annoyed by the block and parry changes. I was actually fond of parry - pre-expansion both my parry and block rates were around 30%, and when they activated each negated between 28%-30% of the damage (parry being the lower end of that scale). For me, taking a unmitigated physical hit was uncommon. I know many saw the parry state as a waste, but I embraced it and I loved the results.

I'm definitely noticing the difference post expansion. Like everyone else, the mitigation seems stuck at 20% and they both activate a whole lot less often, all thanks to the stat changes.

Of all things to nerf.. parry?

Thats strange. The hive shield is blocking for 28%. I imagine as gear levels increases we will see more and more increases, both in block and rate.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

Those were with 130 'balanced' shields. .

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Thus me saying "but it seems now.........that the 30% will only be seen with the tower shields". As most "balanced" shields seem to hover around 19%-20% damage reduction upon block through leveling content, while towers I've seen pushing for about 27%. The damage reduction also appears to lower as the mobs get stronger. I've seen the damage reduction drop from 20% to 19% upon leveling up on a few occasions. So the question is what is the block strength being checked against for the scaling.

And that may be, towers falling out of favor due to not being rewarded them, but for the time being with what we have, my personal opinion is that towers are top dog right now due to shieldtron and our other 60% increased block rate.

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Originally Posted by Celesian

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It's not a flat 20%. If you go into a capped dungeon(level 50) with a balanced shield (mid-tier), the damage reduction upon block is still 30%. If you use a tower shield it's around 27%. Mid-tier's on Heavensward content is around 20%. I don't know about small shields due to not having obtained one and looking at it's numbers. But what it sounds like, is that you probably also saw a few parries pop up. As that is a flat 20% reduction, no matter what.

And as for them going hard on us, I have to disagree. I'm still mass pulling and taking nothing for damage while spamming gory blade and RA. No problem. As long as you know how and when to use your CD's properly and mix them together in larger pulls you can roll through any dungeon while laughing off a majority of the pulls. There's about 2-3 of them however you'll need to split regardless unless you've got a insane healer that can deal with bouncing your health back and forth through heals.

After I posted that I remembered that the tower shield was only a ilvl148 compared to the 180 of Law shield. So the comparison was off by a lot, freakin 2am posts. If hive shield is blocking for 28% that's a pretty big difference in 10ilvls. I know for a fact the 170 law shield was blocking 19-20% dmg which is the same amount blocked by the upgraded 180 shield. I don't see why going up another 10 ilvls suddenly gives you 8-9% increased block strength. We will have to see how it plays out it's going to be a long road for sure.

I was doing quests on my lvl 50 pally in cloudtop, the enemies I encountered were lvl 50-52 and I was getting a flat 30% using dreadwyrm shield. I would have to concur that enemy level and gear level correlates to the percentage blocked.

What is frustating that lvling up the only tower shield is from one of the quest at 58-59, the rest of the dungeons drop are kite shields, that no matter the lvl they will block between 19 and flat 20% no matter what. Block is arguebly less effective now until you get the hive shield

Hive Tower shield is definitely 28% while tanking in EX Rav and, per shields, it will only get better. Keep in mind this is our starting gear at 60--we started at 50 at i50 and went up to i130. The growth in stats patch to patch is generally about 10 i levels, you can expect Alexander to likely be i200-210, plus the new relic weapons and shields. Generally the game tends to give you kite shields or towers (towers being preferable due to sheltron) but, to what Brodek said;

When I was a fresh level 50 back in 2.0 in AM keep with shields, my block was around 19-21%, it wasnt any higher than that im pretty sure. There was no change to shields--your used to having INCREDIBLE shields for your level range and now are back to bottom barrel shields and having to work your way back up.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

When I was a fresh level 50 back in 2.0 in AM keep with shields, my block was around 19-21%, it wasnt any higher than that im pretty sure. There was no change to shields--your used to having INCREDIBLE shields for your level range and now are back to bottom barrel shields and having to work your way back up.

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That is part of it, but we are also used to strengh increasing blocked dmg by 1% for 30 Points (of course they couldn't Keep it like this).
That increased how much dmg alot depending on what gear we were wearing, now only the shield counts.

In all honesty, I'm glad they nerfed it. Because the more effective Block Rate you got for a PLD, the more Parry lost it's value.

Instead, I'm hoping they make Block and PArry stats more useful now and put block rate as a stat onto some gear.

That was DRKs and WARs look for gear with PArry and PLDs look for Block.

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

Instead, I'm hoping they make Block and PArry stats more useful now and put block rate as a stat onto some gear.

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Actually I think SE recognizes the stigma that's been placed upon Parry, and are giving it use beyond passive mitigation chance in recognition of this:

Dark Knight: Parry procs a 10% damage down debuff, resets Low Blow recast

Warrior: CD that guarantees 100% Parry chance over a duration..

PLD: Nothing, but Parry has synergy with a shield (yes, shield reduces proc chances.. but they work together as passive mitigation)

edit: as to stat scaling (referring to the secondary stat 'Parry'): if more SkSp is necessary to reach 9hit zerks from 51-60, I'd assume more Parry is necessary to reach the equal %per point increase of ARR. If anything, IMO seems like Parry secondary stat has become even more marginalized.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Actually I think SE recognizes the stigma that's been placed upon Parry, and are giving it use beyond passive mitigation chance in recognition of this:

Dark Knight: Parry procs a 10% damage down debuff, resets Low Blow recast

Warrior: CD that guarantees 100% Parry chance over a duration..

PLD: Nothing, but Parry has synergy with a shield (yes, shield reduces proc chances.. but they work together as passive mitigation)

edit: as to stat scaling (referring to the secondary stat 'Parry'): if more SkSp is necessary to reach 9hit zerks from 51-60, I'd assume more Parry is necessary to reach the equal %per point increase of ARR. If anything, IMO seems like Parry secondary stat has become even more marginalized.

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With PLD it more than stacking any parry and block together isn't worthwhile. Yes, it's passive mitigation, but the block you get, the less useful parry is. And if you get a lot of parry to boot, that's a lot of wasted stats.

Parry is a bad stat. The amount you need per increase us staggering (and fifty I belive it was around 100 rating per one percent)