i170 healing gear has 0 accuracy on it.

This pretty much sums up SE's stance on healers DPSing in Alexander. I believe they are truly not happy about endgame DPS healers. Even with food and an accuracy relic (which we still don't have and don't even know if it's gonna be customizable or even if they will allow accuracy on healer's relic) it's very likely healers will be miles away from even smelling the accuracy cap in Alexander. Just leaving it here.

I would've preferred they made it hard but possible with some fine tunning and dedication, but the absolute and complete lack of accuracy in healing gear feels like they've completely walled any chance to DPS in the endgame (other than Bio II, Bio, Shadow Flare, Combust and Combust II which can never miss, but that's gonna make very little difference).

Just means that off-tanks will need to pick up the slack.

That sucks... Well then they should stop making the hardest endgame fights solo healable, even with max ilv gear. As SCH I was in cleric stance(and did as many of the mechanics as I could, like redfire/bluefire etc) roughly 50% of the time, every turn. My WHM partner solo healed often. If I hadn't been DPSing or busy with mechanics I would have felt useless because my healing was mostly unnecessary.

Sounds like a mistake... they've mentioned beginning to support Healer-DPS in endgame (taking it into account for Savage, at least).

Even before, it would appear they intend to assist Healers to this end (adding Accuracy to their gear later on).

Well it could always be possible the new esoteric tome healing gear in a few weeks actually has accuracy on it as well as both alexander and alexander savage healing gear. Come to think of it...accuracy is useless now anyway, since there's no endgame yet in the 3.0, so that's why they could've possibly not even bothered adding it to the "DL i170 gear".

But still...don't wanna get my hopes up...

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

Sounds like a mistake... they've mentioned beginning to support Healer-DPS in endgame (taking it into account for Savage, at least).

Even before, it would appear they intend to assist Healers to this end (adding Accuracy to their gear later on).

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Technically, they don't mention supporting it ever.

They mentioned that they didn't originally tune fights to require it, and that they had no plans to do so.

Clearly, this is their answer.

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

Sounds like a mistake... they've mentioned beginning to support Healer-DPS in endgame (taking it into account for Savage, at least).

Even before, it would appear they intend to assist Healers to this end (adding Accuracy to their gear later on).

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No mistake at all. 170 gear is pre-raid gear for everyone, i.e. the stuff everyone is expected to get, when they start on Alex-Normal. Having 0 Accuracy on 170 healing gear hammers the point home that healers was never designed to contribute dps.

For Savage, healers are not designed to dps also. You probably read someone's speculation. In the 26th May interview, Yoshi-P specifically emphasized and repeated his statement, after talking about the Alex-N and Alex-S split, that they do not count healer dps in designing raid content.

So there's no problems at all, no mistakes at all, to give absolutely no Accuracy on "raid" healing gear from now on. You weren't designed to dps anyway. The old healing gear in 2.x gave people the wrong impression, now they want to correct it.

Healer dps was the key factor that allowed players to clear Coil turns faster then they designed. They're just having itemization stay true to their design intent now. 2.x Accuracy on healing gear was the mistake. 3.0 isn't.

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Originally Posted by Elim

That sucks... Well then they should stop making the hardest endgame fights solo healable, even with max ilv gear. As SCH I DPSed(and did most of the mechanics like redfire/bluefire etc) roughly 50% of a turn while my WHM partner solo healed. If I hadn't been DPSing or busy with mechanics I would have felt useless because my healing was mostly unnecessary.

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I used to throw dots out with my healer on Titan EX back when it was a thing. I guess those days are long gone with the expansion. I don't get why they would disallow it in the first place when it helped make healing a little more interesting where I would have reached my cutoff date on running heals.

Healers will be expected to DPS in alexander, they've said this.

Astro and Scholar has moves that ignore accuracy so the only issue is white mage.

I thought they said they were going to give an accuracy buff to cleric stance...

Anyway, sounds like you're grasping at straws here. 2.x gear had no accuracy either (like 5 points on a chest piece isn't enough to even do anything, honestly, so I still consider that none) yet, healers were still expected to DPS the best they could....so I don't see the issue.

As long as Bio, Bio 2, Combust, and the other astro DoT ignores accuracy, those classes at the least will be expected to contribute. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Healers will be expected to DPS in alexander, they've said this.

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Actually no, that came from a mistranslated live letter that a player did, and everyone started believing this. The official translation had Yoshi-p saying that, when designing content, they do not count healer DPS contributions. Instead they add up the total DPS contributions of damage dealers and tank roles (assuming top-teir play) and subtract 10-15% off to allow for player/mechanic variances. I am at work so don't have the link, but when I get home I'll look for it. Think I bookmarked it since everyone kept throwing around the myth of "healer DPS is needed."

Basically, if your raid group absolutely NEEDS a healer to DPS to pass a mechanic, either A) the DD jobs are under-geared, or B) the DD jobs aren't doing their jobs properly. Healer DPS is purely optional, and really only necessary if you're tackling raids at a 10-15 ilevel difference below the recommended value.

They have flat out said that they have tuned Alexander (Savage) to factor in Healer DPS. It will not factor into Alexander (Normal) or any other content. If they have added accuracy to Healer gear I expect it will be on Esoteric gear and maybe Alexander (Normal) gear. As well as Alexander (Savage) gear of course.

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

They have flat out said that they have tuned Alexander (Savage) to factor in Healer DPS. It will not factor into Alexander (Normal) or any other content. If they have added accuracy to Healer gear I expect it will be on Esoteric gear and maybe Alexander (Normal) gear. As well as Alexander (Savage) gear of course.

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The only thing they flat out said was that Alexander normal was not tuned for healer dps. They never said Savage was, however.

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Originally Posted by Velox

Actually no, that came from a mistranslated live letter that a player did, and everyone started believing this. The official translation had Yoshi-p saying that, when designing content, they do not count healer DPS contributions. Instead they add up the total DPS contributions of damage dealers and tank roles (assuming top-teir play) and subtract 10-15% off to allow for player/mechanic variances. I am at work so don't have the link, but when I get home I'll look for it. Think I bookmarked it since everyone kept throwing around the myth of "healer DPS is needed."

Basically, if your raid group absolutely NEEDS a healer to DPS to pass a mechanic, either A) the DD jobs are under-geared, or B) the DD jobs aren't doing their jobs properly. Healer DPS is purely optional, and really only necessary if you're tackling raids at a 10-15 ilevel difference below the recommended value.

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Dunno if your first paragraph is true, I'll look into it, but the second part is a bunch of excuses, honestly.

Whether it's needed or not is irrelevant, if you have the power to be doing 200 dps (which every healer in coil could easily do with some effort and RNG), there is literally no reason to not do it unless you are A: Lazy. Or B: Too unfamiliar with the fight to know when you can.

Call me elitist, but I'll never understand why people choose to do less than they are able. It's why I don't understand these healer dps debates that are such a hot button issue on these forums. It's irrelevant if the game expects you to do it, it's more something you should expect from yourself. :/

Though I will say I tend to be more lenient towards white mages since they're less DPS-able than scholars are.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

As long as Bio, Bio 2, Combust, and the other astro DoT ignores accuracy, those classes at the least will be expected to contribute. Sorry.

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SCH is hurt tremendously by 0 ACC. Aero, Energy Drain(Dissipate gives you 3 more), Miasma, Broil, and even Ruin are a huge part of SCH DPS, and with 0 ACC that DPS doesn't look good anymore. Especially with Broil's MP cost and Energy Drain being locked behind Aetherflow Stacks.

I'd sooner use AT over SCH in end-game content considering these changes. Either that or just take the i170 book, and meld Savage Aim 5 on everything else.

I'm mixed about this... I'm used to DPSing as a healer in FFXIV, but I feel like it'll be nice to not have to. That and I will no longer have to do the job of DPS because the DPS in my party happens to suck. Meaning they'll have to pick up the slack instead of being lazy (not saying this is for all parties, but I've been in quiet a few where they literally do the bare minimum and I am seriously left to wonder if they are lightly napping at their keyboard).

It all depends on what there is for the new endgame, honestly though. Is it designed in mind for healers to not have to be somewhat viable at DPS? Or is it designed so healers can just heal without it being a horror show? Time will tell.

In all truth though, the only people I can see being overly upset about this is DPS and tanks. FFXIV is literally the only game I've ever played as a healer that required me to DPS so much. The amount of rage directed to me when I first started off playing as a healer because I didn't know that I had to DPS also, was beyond staggering to me. DPS and tanks having to pick up the DPS that healers no longer provide, like in most MMORPGs? *Gasp!* The horror!

The reason is simple: because doing more as a healer means healing better. Not dpsing better. If your healing doesnt suffer at all from any dps you might do, then the discussion is pointless for a different reason: the content is too trivial (when it comes to healing).

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

The reason is simple: because doing more as a healer means healing better. Not dpsing better. If your healing doesnt suffer at all from any dps you might do, then the discussion is pointless for a different reason: the content is too trivial (when it comes to healing).

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How is overhealing rewarded in this game?

If you recall 2.x, healing gear didn't get accuracy until the second coil iteration. Maybe we're in the same boat accuracy wise as the binding coil where it's not as needed.

furthermore: Rain of Death.

I remember reading something somewhere about accuracy not being necessary for tanks, or lowering the accuracy requirement for tanks, or something along those lines. Maybe it's the same for healers?

Hopefully the gear we're getting in four weeks has some.
I really don't want to have to stand around like a turd waiting for people to get hit because of accuracy issues, it's just so boring.

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Originally Posted by Wizarus

How is overhealing rewarded in this game?

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How is overheal even mentioned? Ever heard of the 5 second rule? Altho it does not apply in FFXIV it does hint at what im trying to point out:
When you DPS you:

-burn mana you might need later on
-get stuck in a global cooldown, when you might need to react fast to damage taken by the party.
-become less focus on your parties healthbars, and as a result respond slower to incoming damage (or debuffs)

If none of the above applies, then as I mentioned the discussion is pointless: the content your doing is trivial when it comes to healing, and as such it does not matter much what you do in addition to healing. (or instead of healing)

Yes dps has value, as it allows your party to do the encounter faster. But if you can get away with dpsing as a healer then that simply means the healing requirements arent very high.


Personally I'd rather healing itself being more challenging, rather then ''healing + dps''. I'm a healer after all, its in the job description. Not a ''healer+dps''

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

SNIP

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That's not really answeing my question, when all 3 of these things are irrelevant when we're talking about end-game healers. Currently, there is no content where an end-game healer doesn't have at least some opportunity to provide DPS, if not good DPS.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

memes

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You can only do so much with healing. You cap everyone off and give the tank a shield, then what? Being afk is boring as hell. DPS doesnt just "allow your party to do the encounter faster", it allows you to actually beat the encounter. If you are hitting a hard dps wall due to gear, will you dps or will you wallow in your own filth and hold your team back? Now we could argue about how easy just healing is but thats not what we're here about, this is a dps healer thread

Also in regards to your points in your post

Have you healed in this game before? All damage coming out is completely expected and come on you're a healer you have no complicated "rotation", so if you're not able to keep an eye on health bars while pressing dots, we have big issues.
Oh and even for you bads theres instant cast heals; lustrate, indom, bene, bene2, swiftcast+ heal, etc.

basically git gud lol :cool:

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

The reason is simple: because doing more as a healer means healing better. Not dpsing better. If your healing doesnt suffer at all from any dps you might do, then the discussion is pointless for a different reason: the content is too trivial (when it comes to healing).

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There's no such thing as healing better, it's either you're healing enough, healing too much, or healing too little. There's no other variance with healing that can be possible.

Maybe we need less predictable damage and more enrage timers via "if you don't kill this thing fast enough the AOE damage will wipe you".

More damage going out = more healing needed = less time for the healers to be doing damage. This is the only game I've ever played(and I've played most of them) in which the healers are expected to DPS because there's downtime.

Get rid of that downtime and this problem goes away.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

the content your doing is trivial when it comes to healing, and as such it does not matter much what you do in addition to healing. (or instead of healing)

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I guess first world T13 clears in i110 were trivial content too. The healers could push DPS there because healing T13 in i110 stuff was just too easy.

What people do not seem to understand is how the nature of healing works in this game. There's no such thing as "if you can DPS as a healer it means you are"

1 - overgeared and thus doing trivial content.
2 - putting your party members to risk.
3 - ????

You never absolutely never are in a constant healing pressure in this game (T1 being the only exception, I remember it was the ONLY turn where I was never able to DPS as a healer, Caduceus just did too much damage constantly). It's all about being there when the big damage comes. Tank busters, aoes, random mechanics. There are many times where your entire party is topped and between attack 1 and attack 2 there is a downtime of 10 seconds where the boss is standing there like a dumbo just throwing autattacks which are 100% offhealed by the fairy and a WHM regen. You can either twiddle your thumbs there or DPS. That's how it basically works. A confident healer will exactly know every safe downtime where that happens.

Then make more fights like T1.

You're complaining about gear to dps with and saying you like dps because healing isn't challenging enough(collective "you" here, not anyone particular), yet no one asks for healing to actually be made challenging.

Tank busters? Assign someone to keep track and call for CDs. Put someone primarily on tank dutu and someone on raid duty.

Plenty of ways to keep healers busy outside predictable damage and whining "but if we can't dps we're bored".

Not having Accuracy doesn't stop you from doing dps. You may see a much lower dps, but you can still do it during your downtime. And you will still help your party progress.

Your dps just won't be so game-changing that all the content becomes one grade easier.

Healers can still do dps. The lack of Accuracy on healing gear is an adjustment which mostly affect your raid dps. It means against raid targets, your influence on raid total dps is curtailed to conform to the original design intent.

If you want to dps in raids, just do it. Yes your parse won't be so high, but that is how it should have been in the first place. Not having accuracy doesn't mean now raid content is boring facerolls. You can do exactly the same things as you did before, nothing needs to change. You can still be as busy as you want.

In fact, this now opens up an even more advanced level of play for healers who can adjust their gear to have Accuracy yet still heal perfectly fine, while at the same time dealing dps that other healers can't possible achieve. Kind of like how tanks have been judged for a long time. Survivability and dps. Now healers get to play that game, too.