New Bard feedback

Ive tried using Wanderer's Minuet a lot recently, and I must say Im very resentful of this new change. Bard was my favorite job because of its mobility, but this new song would see us basically become a caster and most (if not all) our new actions require this new song.
Im actually considering quitting the job I loved so much, just wanted to give SE my feedback. Others may like the new song. I personally do not want to be restricted, so I'll likely be swapping to a different main job.
Good luck my fellow Bards

No one's making you use it, y'know.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

No one's making you use it, y'know.

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Except I imagine content is tuned on basis they would be using all their abilities.

Anyone can confirm that Mage's Ballad or whatever the name of that song to regen MP DOES NOT work on a Dark Knight when he is in his + DMG % up + MP USED up stance ? (Dark Side or something, can't log in at the moment).

That's what the DRK ability tooltip seemed to mean to me anyway.

Would be pretty cool otherwise, that would add another reason besides healers / casters to play this song now

SE needs to update their archer lore/info on the lodestone.

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Archers constantly assess the battlefield in order to determine the most advantageous ground from which to loose their arrows, as well as the nature of the shaft, point, and fletching best suited to their foe.

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Needs to say:

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Archers are staked to the battlefield with a stick up their ass if they want to use higher weapon skills.

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Nature of the shaft? oh yeah.. we gots the shaft all right. Not as bad as the BLM

I still feel like I 'm the only one who likes this song... I can move plenty with it on and it's not like I NEED to move every second of the battle.
If I need to move for longer than a second, it comes off, not hard.

Such saltyness!

Honestly, I have a feeling there will be times where this Song is useful, and times where this song is a Hindrance, so alternating between using them, and holding off will likely be come practice. I'll likely treat it like "Sniper Mode" when I get around to catching up Bard to my main classes/characters.

Bards wanted their DPS to be brought closer to that of the other DPS, that meant hindering their mobility.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Bards wanted their DPS to be brought closer to that of the other DPS, that meant hindering their mobility.

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Pretty much.


My only current gripe with Bard is the change to Barrage, or rather the lack of consistency in its new function. It says it makes a non-critical WEAPONSKILL hit 3 times with only 1 effect, but the only weaponskills it applies to are the DoTs, Straight Shot and Heavy Shot.

I was a bit disappointed to see that both Quick Nock and Wide Volley were indeed Weaponskills, but they didn't trigger the effect from Barrage.

Also, the trait still references autoattacks, which is just an oversight i'm sure.

i actually like the buff lol use it in most boss fights for extra damage and the cast time added to skills is barely noticeable its not a massive cast time ._.

I would be much more ok with it if it was an instant toggle, having a 3 second cast time to even turn the mode on makes switching it on the fly much more prohibitive.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Pretty much.


My only current gripe with Bard is the change to Barrage, or rather the lack of consistency in its new function. It says it makes a non-critical WEAPONSKILL hit 3 times with only 1 effect, but the only weaponskills it applies to are the DoTs, Straight Shot and Heavy Shot.

I was a bit disappointed to see that both Quick Nock and Wide Volley were indeed Weaponskills, but they didn't trigger the effect from Barrage.

Also, the trait still references autoattacks, which is just an oversight i'm sure.

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Does it not work with embrylian arrow? I could've sworn its counted as a weapon skill despite the cooldown.

Also this is what happens if the inherent design of the class isn't changed to accommodate; I'm talking about bloodletter resets and the oh-so-frustrating straighter shot procs.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Does it not work with embrylian arrow? I could've sworn its counted as a weapon skill despite the cooldown.

Also this is what happens if the inherent design of the class isn't changed to accommodate; I'm talking about bloodletter resets and the oh-so-frustrating straighter shot procs.

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I'm pretty sure it will work with Emp. Arrow, but it doesnt work with the AoEs. It seems like it just doesn't proc on multi-target abilities.

I forgot to check if it procs on Misery's End though.

The tooltip says it applies to a single target weapon skill so I would assume as long as its not an AoE (quick nock, etc.) it would apply.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

I still feel like I 'm the only one who likes this song... I can move plenty with it on and it's not like I NEED to move every second of the battle.
If I need to move for longer than a second, it comes off, not hard.

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Your not the only one buddy. I've been using it in Dust Vigil, Sal w/e the heck that dungeon name is, and Aeryl? So far I have no problem with the cast, especially if you know how to work with the casting delay (Move but still get the cast off).

To others:

Its not like OGCD isnt a thing, You can still weave them in efficiently, Heck if you get a Straighter Shot proc, there is no cast time for that skill if you get the proc. The cast(s) is only 1.5 seconds which is significantly shorter than both the casters. If you really wanted to move a few steps, than just move when you use a OGCD. I suggest everyone to have WM on an easy accessible button so you can toggle it on and off easily. Me for example have it Hotbar 2 button 2. Easy to hit that button when needed to turn it off in high mobile fights and to re-apply. The barrage change may seem crazy at first, but when you look at the skills you get after 52, you can kind of understand why. If they left it alone BRD will be pretty high up there in DPS. Barrage works on any single target Weaponskill, so using it on Empyreal Arrow is probably the most efficient.

All in all, I feel like with the current stuff, BRD is able to burst a bit and sustain pretty high dps if you know how to while before, after your burst period your DPS takes a huge dip on the graph. If you already know how to BRD before WM, IMO, all this skill can do to you is improve your overall DPS. With the new stuff that comes along with WM, I think brds are able to sustain pretty good DPS instead of taking a huge dip on the graph after a Burst period. We're able to 240 Potency every 15 seconds and a 350 Potency every minute rather than a constant rate of 150.

Why do you need to move constantly? If you aren't kiting something then sit your hyperactive ass down and do your damage.

Welcome to playing the Shoot, Step, Shoot, Step game that BLM's have been playing for so long. You'll get the hang of it.

Exia: Let me ask you this then with regards to the song: how are you liking it in the field against the open world mobs or FATEs? In the dungeons you have a tank to take aggro so you don't have to worry too much about the close in cones and such, but in the open world I normally am having to move constantly around to avoid the cone attacks, etc. I get the feeling i'm going to be taking alot more damage than I otherwise would just so i can use these new skills.

Chek: If i wanted to do the Caster Two-step.. i would've been a caster :P

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Originally Posted by Chek

Why do you need to move constantly? If you aren't kiting something then sit your hyperactive ass down and do your damage.

Welcome to playing the Shoot, Step, Shoot, Step game that BLM's have been playing for so long. You'll get the hang of it.

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Because all jobs should play the same? Is that the goal? Turning Bard into a BLM with arrows takes away the uniqueness of it's playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Miah_Dakwhil

Exia: Let me ask you this then with regards to the song: how are you liking it in the field against the open world mobs or FATEs? In the dungeons you have a tank to take aggro so you don't have to worry too much about the close in cones and such, but in the open world I normally am having to move constantly around to avoid the cone attacks, etc. I get the feeling i'm going to be taking alot more damage than I otherwise would just so i can use these new skills.

Chek: If i wanted to do the Caster Two-step.. i would've been a caster :P

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Well, when talking about the aspect of open-field play and Solo play, the song isn't required. I mean I do use it out in the open here and there just to see, its not really much a problem But what im assuming everyone is talking about is in the view of Raids. If your only going 1 on 1 with a new mob, it shouldnt be a problem though yea you might take a lot of damage but I think atm everyone is taking a lot of damage lol. So When you're soloing don't really matter if you use it or not but definitely consider using it when your with a proper party set up.

I actually use it p often in the open world... if it's something I know ill be kiting around then no, I don't use it. Most enemies though I can either kill before they get too close or it takes half a second to move.

Remember it's a stance...if.you honestly think you are personally going to suffer a dps loss while using it then turn it off

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

I actually use it p often in the open world... if it's something I know ill be kiting around then no, I don't use it. Most enemies though I can either kill before they get too close or it takes half a second to move.

Remember it's a stance...if.you honestly think you are personally going to suffer a dps loss while using it then turn it off

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What he said ^

What i have been playing around is something along the lines of: WM > Some buff skills > Nuke (if you want to) > Turn off WM and play the way i did before WM. This way at least your DoTs will have that 20% boost for a bit while your not in WM and kiting around. Again, like i said I think having WM on a easy button will make all this stuff a lot easier LOl, or macro it to a side button on your mouse (If you use a mouse and have side buttons)

Admittedly, I haven't used it much yet, but primals can explain when and when not to use it. You will never want this in a fight like titan, because you're constantly moving. In 2.0 the most popular way to clear titan hm was with 5 bards. Leviathan on the other hand doesn't need you to move and shoot too much. So you could have it up most of the time and maintain dps with the mages. The dps for a bard has never been about when you have to move its about being able to attack when others are dodging. If you're in a fight that doesn't have a lot of motion your dps is inevitably going to be lower than a blm.

I am a little sore over this change because it means being an ideal bard means spending time anchored to one spot. I can't speak for people who main bard but as a main BLM having a bard alt job was heaven because of the mobility.

Until people get to 60, maximize rotations, crunch numbers and all that jazz, we don't know what an "ideal BRD" consists of mechanics-wise. Just because you're given a skill/stance, that doesn't mean you're supposed to use it ALL the time. (i.e. Healer and tank skills and stances.) How much you use them and when you use them is something that varies from job to job, player to player, and situation to situation.

I've been messing around with the Minuet and the lvl 54 skill for a while, and they're definitely not something you'd be using a majority of the time. When there's a fight you don't need to be terribly mobile for or doesn't have many enemies? Minuet time. Otherwise? Proceed as normal.

As a bard who can't sit still I honestly love this new song! <3 I haven't tried any dungeons yet but out in the overworld I'm having no trouble with mobility at all. It's not like you're animation locked just move; usually the skill goes off anyway because the cast time is so short. Being as it's only me and my chocobo out there the damage boost is really nice against some of these new mobs.

The one thing they need to do is remove the cast timer for the stance itself, most stance change skills on most classes are instant and I think this should be too. If they did that then it would be okay in my opinion. We will have to stand still to benefit from it anyways so don't make us waste multiple seconds essentially 'preparing' to stand still...make it instant cast stance change instead. The hit to mobility should be limited to when in the stance and not when casting it on top of when using.

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Originally Posted by Akuryu

Because all jobs should play the same? Is that the goal? Turning Bard into a BLM with arrows takes away the uniqueness of it's playstyle.

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You want to talk about the uniqueness of its playstyle, then they should have kept it as a support class instead of a dps.

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Originally Posted by Chek

You want to talk about the uniqueness of its playstyle, then they should have kept it as a support class instead of a dps.

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Lol this is actually why I originally rolled bard. I wanted to play something totally unique to the MMO world. Then beta started and people complained about the lack of ranged dps. Which I get, but I still wish they had left bard ad support and made a second job that branched off archer the way ACN is set up with SMN & SCH.

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Originally Posted by lordoftheapes79

Lol this is actually why I originally rolled bard. I wanted to play something totally unique to the MMO world. Then beta started and people complained about the lack of ranged dps. Which I get, but I still wish they had left bard ad support and made a second job that branched off archer the way ACN is set up with SMN & SCH.

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Beta was a good time. I miss a lot of what they had going on back then compared to now.

u will get used to it :P , and yeah u are "forced" to use it , since all the new skills have a WM requeriment and are awesome! , a skill that refresh both dots for 60 tp? , a skill that does 240 potency ...and Sidewinder (still dont have it ) , but dmg has improved a lot , the barrage with E. Arrow hits like a truck !

the only thing i dislike is the animation , reaching the quiver looks lame

I hate it with a passion.

If I wanted to be a caster I'd play my BLM. I'm extremly annoyed by this change of playstyle. I liked to be the mobile range DD / resource support even with being the lowest in the dps charts, but this UGH. No, just no -.-

It's just because they made Bard more so a "DPS" role.
What, first people complain that Bard does low damage, and when they get "buffed", people don't like it?

Look, it's a 1.5s base cast. You can start moving ahead of time at around 1.1 - 1.3s, assuming you know how to do it.
You have Ironjaw which refreshes your DoTs, and Emyperor's Arrow that is a 240 potency, AND usable with Barrage.

1.5 of not moving will not kill you. This is obviously another way to weed out the good/bad bards.
Yes, oh man. You can turn off the song if you want to. You're not required to use it unless you're in a static, then reconsider your thought process.


Jeez.


PS: I'm pretty sure I butchered the level 54 job skill name. Sorry.

The thing with with WM, it made applying VB and WB pretty slow with cast time ans apply on muilt-target

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Originally Posted by Chek

You want to talk about the uniqueness of its playstyle, then they should have kept it as a support class instead of a dps.

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Except support wouldn't fit in this MMO since it is (thankfully) balanced around the trinity.

Either way, that has nothing to do with the fact that instead of working out alternatives for BRD to grow into, they essentially are turning it into a caster. That's a pretty big problem design-wise.

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Originally Posted by UltimateAoe2

It's just because they made Bard more so a "DPS" role.
What, first people complain that Bard does low damage, and when they get "buffed", people don't like it?

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There's other ways to do it. The next logical step would be abilities reacting off each other in some way. If a stance has to be included, then have it nerf the current BRD songs or alter them in some way.

Granted, I'm of the opinion a DPS like ARR's BRD should be more about steady DPS with minor burst options, and that's what I feel they should have built the job around going into Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

(\/) i - i (\/)

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Sore as I am with it I am willing to tolerate its existence, but good lord putting a cast time on a stance was a derp thing. You already broke BRD thematically with putting us into a DPS stance-song-thing, SE Not like you have to save face and make it play out like an actual song. >:V

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Originally Posted by lordoftheapes79

Lol this is actually why I originally rolled bard

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SAME! I love playing support roles but being terrible with healer pressure BRD was a godsend, lol. But this game is so set within the trinity I guess they had no choice but to start attempting to re-spec it.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The next logical step would be abilities reacting off each other in some way. If a stance has to be included, then have it nerf the current BRD songs or alter them in some way.

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It's sad but it stands to reason they could only think of removing our mobility. It was the one thing that was forever gating us from most other methods of DPS the other classes used. Couldn't do combos like the melee DPS have since their drawback was always the risk of losing a chain had they ever needed to reposition themselves or dodge an attack. A Bard with combo potency and just dancing around the arena like a fool would be ridiculous.

I had always thought it'd be stupid and fun if they tied most their WS in with flank/rear and different ranges. Like one DoT gains more potency inflicted at the rear where another is better applied on the flank. Certain arrow shots were more effective given how much closer or further you were from the target and having to learn the distances would certainly make for a ridiculous challenge, lol.

Perhaps I should wait until Lv. 60 before commenting, but I'm Lv. 56 right now, and even with Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaws, I can't help but notice that my both my mobility AND DPS plummet the moment I turn on WM.

At first, I thought I was just imagining it when mobs seemed to die a lot slower when WM is turned on, so I decided to measure my DPS during combat. And well, my suspicions were confirmed.

Sure, it looks all powerful on a training dummy, but once you have to use it on actual battle, it... doesn't really work out as well as I thought it would.

Your attacks grow stronger, but you no longer have autoattacks and cannot use anything else while your attacks are casting. Without WM, that 1.5 second of inactivity would instead be used for auto-attacks and launching OGCD skills or procs.

Not to mention, on a fight that requires lots of split-second dodging... good luck letting off a WM-boosted shot. Watch as your DPS and your position on the aggro chart plummet.

Without WM, you can dodge AND continue rapid firing OGCD and procs in between GCDs. While your DPS without WM may never be on the same level as a BLM or MNK, at least you're maintaining consistency even while you are moving, while those other DPS classes will see their DPS drop the moment they have to dodge or move. That has always been what defined Bard as its own class: it is about mobility and control, not raw DPS output, and that playstyle alone was enough for Bards to topple even mighty foes like Bahamut.

So as I was saying, based on my tests, Wanderer's Minuet may have uses here and there, but for now I'd deem it very situational and gimmicky. Perhaps my opinion will change once I have access to all my Heavensward BRD skills, but in the meantime, I recommend keeping WM off and playing BRD like a true BRD, not like a wannabe BLM.

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Originally Posted by Chek

Why do you need to move constantly? If you aren't kiting something then sit your hyperactive ass down and do your damage.

Welcome to playing the Shoot, Step, Shoot, Step game that BLM's have been playing for so long. You'll get the hang of it.

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If I wanted the BLM gameplay, i'd play one.

You are still mobile and do just as much damage without it on. Turn it off and keep moving when you need to? Its not like they put a mandatory stationary effect on your skills.

I really think this is about not being able to just mash your WASD keys while dpsing like a bunch of ADD riddled bow-bros and still being optimal. Now when you're not doing mechanics, you stand still to maximize. Boohoo.

edit: Alternatively, now there's MCH for the ADD. Hurray!

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Originally Posted by Chek

You are still mobile and do just as much damage without it on. Turn it off and keep moving when you need to? Its not like they put a mandatory stationary effect on your skills.

I really think this is about not being able to just mash your WASD keys while dpsing like a bunch of ADD riddled bow-bros and still being optimal. Now when you're not doing mechanics, you stand still to maximize. Boohoo.

edit: Alternatively, now there's MCH for the ADD. Hurray!

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Naw they have their version of WM