so I maybe mistaken but from my understanding of materia, crafted gear which was already better than raid gear in the case of +2 and +3 is now getting a substantial buff to make it "comparable" to raid gear in their own words. So.... the entire focus of the game has been shifted away from raids making them pointless? this is not comparable but overwhelming; why go after a verdant shortbow when I can grab a crab bow +3 and stick at least two materia on it? did battle classes and raids really just become obsolete? is the focus on the game now going to be on the bot loving crafters who already have all the gil, battle classes just their materia making slaves, and raids just a cute little challenge to try once and if you fail oh well who cares I already have the best gear back to spamming enter while watching a movie?
I seriously don't think that's true, please tell me I misunderstood something?
materia > raids?
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09-18-2011, 01:53 AMAnonmateria > raids?
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09-18-2011, 01:55 AMyukikaze_yanagi
actually i think a crafted item would be better only with at least 4 materia, not sure thou
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09-18-2011, 02:32 AMHolland
How I see it would be:
~Dungeon/raid/NM gear vastly superior to regular gear but not so much to gear with one Materia attached.
~Gear with two or three Materia attached equal or slightly superior to Dungeon/raid/NM gear.
~Gear with 5 Materia attached superior in all sense of the word, except to relic weapons/shield. -
09-18-2011, 02:34 AMAeraLucis
Yeah, and remember that attaching more than one materia on an item can cause it to break, so I don't think we'll be seeing too many HQ weapons with multiple materia on them. People will just be too afraid of the loss.
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09-18-2011, 03:03 AMGriss
Yea its looking like reward gear is going to be the "Safe" way to get boots to performance while gear augmented via multiple materia will be superior but come at the cost of it being far more risky to create.
Ie some one walking around with a 5 sloted hq top end weapon will be rare and seen as some one with cahones of steel.
I'm thinking that one to two materia will be the norm and only people seeking to squeak in every bit of performance out of there gear slots going beyond that. -
09-18-2011, 04:18 AMTezz_XivectroUnless it's been said some place else, then this is only saying we can't convert R/EX into Materia itself. Where does it say R/EX itself can't be attached to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida
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09-18-2011, 04:36 AMAnon
they said earlier you can't attach materia to untradable items.
edit: and why do people keep saying crafted gear will only be better with multiple high risk materia??!?! it's already better in case you didn't know.....adding anything more to it is over kill even if its just one materia..... -
09-18-2011, 05:13 AMyukikaze_yanagi
it's already better, yes.
The problem is, the game go on, and the gear too :|| new gear wil have stat designed for this sistem, while old items will be obsolete -
09-18-2011, 05:42 AMZantetsuken
We don't even know A) What bonuses materia will give, B) what those bonuses will be worth after the abolition of physical levels, C) the time it takes to make a single materia, and D) the success rate of attaching materia to a weapon/item.
I fail to see the point in worrying if [unknown × unknown ÷ unknown % unknown] will make [pick any dungeon item] obsolete at this point - and to what degree.
All we know is that they have the potential to be "better".
Wait and see what we are dealing with before jumping on the DOOM train. -
09-18-2011, 05:52 AMMeowyWowieThey said NM gear, they didn't say ALL rare/ex gear. All the gear from the raids drop from chests, even if you have to kill a boss(NM) to spawn some of them, doesn't necessarily make them NM gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon
If it is true that it can't be enhanced and crafted gear with materia is the best gear in the game I'm not even going to bother with raids and such, aside from just doing it once to beat it, because it's pointless. This pretty much destroys a good amount, if not all of content for me and others like me. I really hope this isn't the case.
Still waiting for confirmation on this.. -
09-18-2011, 06:07 AMJynx
As we currently understand.
Item tiers.
- NQ items
- ->NQ items with Materia will fall somewhere between better or as good as HQ
- HQ items
- HQ items with few materia
- NM items
- Raid items
- HQ items with 5 materia
Sounds like sound reasoning to me, the massive time sink that getting a HQ 5 sloted items will outwiegh some peoples time constraints where doing Raids will give fairly good gear in a shorter period of time. -
09-18-2011, 06:09 AMCharismatic
Crafted items need to always be the best gear in the game if they want classes like Armorer, etc to stay relevant.
Glad that materia gear is supposed to be better than raid gear. -
09-18-2011, 10:15 AMZdenka
Future content is going to be balanced around NQ gear with 1 materia, which means that raid gear should be really no stronger than NQ+2 materia, or HQ+1 materia.
HQ or NQ+5 materia is going to blow whatever you can get out of NMs/Dungeons/Raids out of the water most likely. -
09-18-2011, 10:43 AMViridianaRaid gear needs to be as good as crafted gear to keep raids relevant, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charismatic
That's not what they said. Read it again. They're saying you can beat the content with NQ + 1 materia. Obviously, the gear you get for beating content should be better than what it takes to beat that content. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdenka
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09-18-2011, 10:49 AMCharismaticNot at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
Crafted gear that's better than raid gear needs to just take a large time investment... which is exactly what this system calls for with the breaks and such. -
09-18-2011, 11:49 AMViridianaOr, as I just posted in the other thread, they could have raids drop mats for superior crafted gear. This was their original solution with NMs, and, iirc, what crafters were asking for with the raids, anyway. Heck, even WoW had a system like that for a while. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Charismatic
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09-18-2011, 01:02 PMMadruk
Materia gear focuses on luck to achieve your goal. Raids (in theory) rely on skill and coordination to get the rewards. Doesn't matter how long Timmy the Crafter takes to create that item, all he's doing is gathering mats/sitting in town praying the mighty RNG goes his way. Hence any sense of achievement from raiding goes out the window when you see Timmy with a fiery longsword of destruction while you have a semi fiery sword of destruction after finally beating that raid encounter. No skill is involved with a random roll of the dice. You already get this sense of apathy just from doing dungeons (or raids as they like to call them). The gear just isn't good enough to justify the effort put into it when simple +2 crafted items are better.
The best way around this is to have unique items that can only be achieved from either crafting or raiding. Good example is special effect items such as haste can only be obtained through raiding while pure stat based items with STR/HP and the like crafting would come out on top. Mixing them up rather than one always being better than the other is better design. You need to give incentives for both. -
09-18-2011, 02:07 PMMurugan
I don't think it is acceptable to have normal gear made from purely gathered materials/drops outside of raids to be equal to raid drops.
People who play endgame, and are "hardcore" already play more than most casuals so the whole "time invested" argument doesn't really make sense as they will be the people to get 5 slotted HQ crafted gear first and most often, only what will they use it for? To overpower future content that is made trivial by having 5 slotted HQ gear which drops gear that is useless to them?
It doesn't make sense. The best gear should be crafted, but it should be crafted with components from endgame encounters (like how the original NM's worked). Hopefully that gear will be able to be slotted with Materia and plentiful in future endgame encounters if rare/ex gear cannot.
This game needs to get away from Rare/Ex drops anyways. There are much better ways to prevent RMT/monopolization such as how cursed gear worked in XI where there are crafted components and a drop you need to obtain which is not tradeable. -
09-19-2011, 01:41 AMAnon
Thank you madruk and murugan, I was seriously astonished at the people saying crafted gear will only be better with multiple maetria; I don't get why they don't understand crafted gear is already better! adding anything more to that is overkill and dungeons will be completely pointless... people like them is why this is going to implemented with out so much as a peep from the community. The only saving grace here is if they ramp up the power of the next raid set but then that would make the current raid set obsolete in under 3 months like they're targeting; so either way something is wrong here.
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09-19-2011, 01:51 AMyukikaze_yanagi
this gear will be obsolete. Aka, new items will have stat according with this vision in mind. Just because actual crafted gear it's better of drops (with isn't no more true in reality) don't mean it be forever
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09-19-2011, 02:17 AMCTSwiftheal
I have been pouring over Dev tracker for about an hour to find where it says dungeon or raid rare/ex gear cannot be enhanced.
Post: [dev1017] Materia crafting system (name tentative)
It states: It is possible to have others attach materia on your behalf, as long as the gear you wish to enhance is tradable.
Doesnt this mean untradeable gear can still be enhanced by the owner. -
09-19-2011, 03:00 AMCharismaticYep yep. Definitely this.Quote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
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09-19-2011, 03:33 AMAliseQuote:
hy go after a verdant shortbow when I can grab a crab bow +3 and stick at least two materia on it?
You know, it is easier to get Verdant Shortbow than Crabow+3 right?
My server has like.... 5-6 dozens of Verdant shortbow users, but I think there aren't more than 20 Crabbow+3 exist here.
Verdant Short bow only take like 20 min to get with good team, and as long as your team is playing good, their success chance is near 100%. Crabbow+3 in the other hand, can not surely get by any good crafter unless he has very lucky and he is patient to collect all HQ materials. (I compare it now, but I dunno if HQ will be easier after 1.20 or not)
My friends get online to keep crafting and trying to collect HQ materials and repeatedly made it longer than 3 months. Still, with a lot of gil sink he spent, his max only +2. Another guy in my LS just come back after long break, and join Raid a few time with speed run party, now he is holding his Verdant bow. (free)
"Craft gear made by a lot of investment" should be better than "raid free gear"
How many R45+ item with +3 quality have you ever made it until now? compare to how many Raid gear you have?
(You also forget that there are so many easy obtainable Raid gear such as Spear, Hora, Cane, Scepter, shield, armor, boots. Those are not limit by time attack, and any noob rank 50 can get it easily)
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09-19-2011, 03:58 AMAnon
@ alise the synthesis are going to be guaranteed hq if you use all hq mats from now on so while, they're rare now they wont be eventually after materia comes into play.
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09-19-2011, 04:07 AMBruceyBruceyBangBang
You do know that they are doing a big overhaul on weapon's base DMG and Delay, right? They have said this after they added auto-attack and the delay feature on weapons and the next patch would edit all of these weapons further. Plus, there won't be such thing as a Crab Bow +3. For all we know, the new HQ system could lock those high quality weapons to equal what would have been a +1 or +2 in the old system.
They wanted to change the color of item names to show it's rarity and power and I believe that will be reflected further with the new patch. However, as others have said, if it doesn't then the game will go on and then it'll be about another grinding to get the next highest DPS weapon for your class. What I am trying to say is, you probably shouldn't definitively expect what you're going to get when you don't know what any of the base stats and delays are going to be edited to or really how difficult it'll be attach multiple pieces of materia. -
09-19-2011, 07:00 AMViridianaAbout an hour looking and you didn't find the top dev post under General Discussion?Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSwiftheal
Under "Materia Created from Weapons and Armor":Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayohne
Quote:
Generally, only crafted items can be materialized at max spiritbond level.
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09-19-2011, 09:06 AMCTSwifthealThis section says you cannot make materia from U/U items. True.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
It does not say you cannot add materia to unique/untradeable items. -
09-21-2011, 06:06 AMAnon
・Materia attachment to EX/RARE items will currently not be possible (Depends on content updates)
and now we have it in writing now. -
09-21-2011, 07:07 AMCTSwiftheal
Yup!
I am very disapointed with this. Many linkshells have spent many hours in the dungeons collecting gear, that is barely better than some crafting gear, in preperation for new content to come. Now we will have to dust off our old gear or replace the crafted peices we sold to enhance it with materia. Crafted weapons are argueably the same as (HQ crafted weapons are better) batraals' drops and now those rare/ex peices become wasted inventory slots, can not even convert them to materia.
All i can do is hope that the next generation of rare/ex drops from dungeons to come are balanced with this new system. Ill still do the dungeons, but the replay value would be decreased to the point of "Why bother?" if the rewards are mearly for looks. I do understand that raid content is not for everyone. For me raid content is where i can learn about my teamates and the people i surround myself with. Demzal Darkhold made my linkshell stronger, not with items but through understanding eachother and working together.
I understand that the way it is now the dungeon gear takes endgame crafted items out of the picture. When the dungeon was released i was hopeing for things like what the Roaming NMs were giving us. Broken peices that could be crafted and possably HQed. Killing the Great Buffalo for a Bloody Lance Head then gathering materials and having it crafted was one of the best experiances for me. Not only did it satisfy my need to kill big stuff, it also brought many people from Disiplins of War/Magic, Hand and Land into the process.
I can see how the new system is trying to revive the usufulness of the Disiplins that have been left out of "endgame". I just hope that somewhere in patch 1.19 we have some content that i can enjoy on a group level with replay value. -
09-21-2011, 09:30 AMAnonI hope they do too but that's still very unfair that our current dungeon gear will be obsolete so quick, I don't see a crab +3 (my favorite example yes) going out of style anytime soon why should the darkhold gear be made into scraps so quickly? aside from not even being convertible into materia, you can't use it on lower level classes, or sell it. it will become pure vendor trash. I also don't believe they'll update the current gear to match the new system for fear of angering people.Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSwiftheal
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09-21-2011, 09:45 AMMadruk
Well really it took us about a week and a half to gear out 30 players in DMZ. The 5 minute lockout makes farming gear a joke. In contrast a crafted piece might take a month to finally get slotted completely. Either way I still disagree with the whole premise of sitting in town to get the best gear available.
Until they bring in multi-alliance raids it'll be hard to compare.