New War/Pld Skill tooltips

Some pretty sweet skills for both war and pld.
source: http://www.garlandtools.org/db/

WAR
http://i.imgur.com/Wvn8ZVC.png

PLD
http://i.imgur.com/704qfCc.png

Sheltron, or "the thing that will bring back tower shields".

Am I safe to assume that this cooldown will be required for every blockable tank busters?

Also, Bulwark & Shield Swipe combo can be quite a thing regarding enmity generation... depending on the enmity bonus modifier, obviously.

I'm curious as to where will both tanks draw their healing from? I'll assume that WAR's is just a beefed up Second Wind. As for PLDs, I fear that it will still be based on MND.

Looks like the WAR list is missing Fell Cleave. I don't have a pic, but it's a 500 Potency Attack that requires Uncontrollable.

Edit: PLD's also missing Goring Blade here. I saw it to be a 220 initial potency attack(comboed off Riot Blade) that provides a 40 Potency DoT for 24 seconds. A total of 540 Potency!

Interesting...
I thought the new WAR parry and PLD block skills were kinda similar, but they have important differences.


The WAR Raw Intuition lasts for 20 seconds, and by the skill description, I understand that you'll parry every attack in front of you during these 20sec (and get hit critically if attacked by the side)
If that's the case it's a very strong cooldown for situations similar to t9 Bahamut's Claw (3~5 fast and strong physical attacks).
We already parry for 30% and that will be even more with higher STR from levels/gear (assuming they don't change that)

PLD on the other hand will fully block 1 physical attack and recover MP when blocking, which would be better for a really strong (physical) tank buster move similar to t12 Revelation or t13 Flatten.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

Interesting...
I thought the new WAR parry and PLD block skills were kinda similar, but they have important differences.


The WAR Raw Intuition lasts for 20 seconds, and by the skill description, I understand that you'll parry every attack in front of you during these 20sec (and get hit critically if attacked by the side)
If that's the case it's a very strong cooldown for situations similar to t9 Bahamut's Claw (3~5 fast and strong physical attacks).
We already parry for 30% and that will be even more with higher STR from levels/gear (assuming they don't change that)

PLD on the other hand will fully block 1 physical attack and recover MP when blocking, which would be better for a really strong (physical) tank buster move similar to t12 Revelation or t13 Flatten.

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Sounds to me like Intuition is the WAR's answer to Bulwark and Sheltron is PLD's answer to Inner Beast. Homogenization of the Tanking classes so that they can do all of the things all of the time?

Clemency + Divine Veil is looking nuts. 1.2k potency heal that gives a shield equal to 10% of the Paladin's hp.

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Originally Posted by aerolol

We already parry for 30% and that will be even more with higher STR from levels/gear (assuming they don't change that)

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The Prelim patchnotes imply that they are removing the Str bonus to parrying.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Clemency + Divine Veil is looking nuts. 1.2k potency heal that gives a shield equal to 10% of the Paladin's hp.



The Prelim patchnotes imply that they are removing the Str bonus to parrying.

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Let's hope that it is only Dex lol. i takes at least 70 points of Strength to go up by 1% of the the attacked parried

Warrior is looking so beautiful it's bringing me to tears. Raw intuition is all attacks? Now the malus makes sense. AND it grants a wrath stack? AND we can use equilibrium to restore tp in dps stance? AND we get a 500 pot st attack!? Good god. The aoe seems a little weak, but considering everything else I can live with that.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Sounds to me like Intuition is the WAR's answer to Bulwark and Sheltron is PLD's answer to Inner Beast. Homogenization of the Tanking classes so that they can do all of the things all of the time?

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How so? IB is 20% on all damage while a block depends on the shield and is generally much stronger but only blocks physical. Plus IB is used for dpsall the time. Sure sheltron looks like a skill that you use every time it's up too, due to it being 30 seconds and not many tank busters are physical (so far anyway) but it kinda combos into a swipe that was usually used for TP, except back then using it too much you slow down your enmity gain by a lot, which should be rectified now that it has an enmity bonus.

Paladins now can use their reactive action much more now and they still keep up TP that way.
Warriors still have no reactive but now they have invigorate lite.

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Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

Warrior is looking so beautiful it's bringing me to tears. Raw intuition is all attacks? Now the malus makes sense. AND it grants a wrath stack? AND we can use equilibrium to restore tp in dps stance? AND we get a 500 pot st attack!? Good god. The aoe seems a little weak, but considering everything else I can live with that.

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If we pop intuition and awareness, would we be parrying from the front and taking damage normally from the flank and back with no crits...or would we be parrying from all sides? Or would we still be taking crits from flank and back? Hmm...

I sometimes use Haymaker when I want to feel like we have a reactionary .__.

And with the way things are looking, I may not be playing a DPS anytime soon >___>

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Originally Posted by Gardes

How so? IB is 20% on all damage while a block depends on the shield and is generally much stronger but only blocks physical. Plus IB is used for dpsall the time. Sure sheltron looks like a skill that you use every time it's up too, due to it being 30 seconds and not many tank busters are physical (so far anyway) but it kinda combos into a swipe that was usually used for TP, except back then using it too much you slow down your enmity gain by a lot, which should be rectified now that it has an enmity bonus.

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Um, an overwhelming majority of Tank Busters in 2.X were Physical Damage. There's no precedent to think that this distribution will suddenly change drastically.

The reason I say that Sheltron is an answer to Inner Beast is based on the ability to provide Burst Mitigation. Sheltron can be used every 30 seconds. Inner Beast can be used, at maximum, every 22.5 seconds or so(but this can easily be shorter). They're both, mitigation wise, best used as a method of mitigating a single big attack. Their cooldowns are both short enough that they can probably be up for every use of said big attack in a fight. This essentially makes PLD a WAR's equal in Burst Mitigation in most situations. Raw Intuition, on the other hand, puts WAR closer to PLD in terms of sustained Mitigation.

Ravensbeak/flatten....I haven't really pay attention but I assumed boss auto atks are cancelled while casting...or is a very risky skill.

Pld sword oath+ extremely high potency DOT and 340 of savage combo seems OP. To the point that it probably out dps warrior 5% buff....if true this isjust sad.

Don't forget the crit chance bonus you get while being in Deliverance. :P And getting 200 TP back every minute is huge, a warrior would run dry in 3 minutes before, now it should be close to 5 minutes before peon or goad have to be applied.

I think it evens out in the end, though. Most groups will probably still go with Paladin as MT because with an Tower shield and 100% block chance, Paladins will have the highest single target mitigation.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

Pld sword oath+ extremely high potency DOT and 340 of savage combo seems OP. To the point that it probably out dps warrior 5% buff....if true this isjust sad.

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Guess you missed the part where war gets a 500 pot gcd skill when OT mode, and (by my calculations) run out of TP after about....29 MINUTES with a 2.5sec gcd. Then there's the 5% overall boost and the 5ish% Crit rate buff thanks to abandon/Wrath stacks now working in deliverance.

War OT just got about a 23%ish dps boost and eliminated all possibility of TP drain. And I didn't even count the extra infuriate abandon moves, or the 3 moves that give stacks (zerk, vengence, and now the parry move). Just eye, bb, frac, and spam fell cleave every 5 stacks. There's a lot of extra cleaves from infuriate and other 3 moves that aren't accounted for. Not to mention the stupid spike damage war could do fitting 3 fell cleaves during 1 zerk.

Mmmm 3 zerked 500 pot fell cleaves. I..uh...need to...um...brb. something just popped up I need to handle.

Good Stuff, though war is missing the lvl 54 skill which I'm guessing is the one in the benchmark trailer where you see two destructo discs as the warrior slashes. Maybe its the Inner Beast version for Deliverance. I was hoping that war would get at 10% damage buff but I guess 5% is better than nothing. I was also hoping that the crit rate for each stack of abandon would be 3% in Deliverance, instead of the 2% as it is a dps stance but meh. Maybe this calls for a "riot thread"?

The site is down till HW ea so does anyone have the screenshot of the lvl 54 skill with the 500 potency that people keep talking about and was there any changes to Holmgang?

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Originally Posted by Perzeval

I think it evens out in the end, though. Most groups will probably still go with Paladin as MT because with an Tower shield and 100% block chance, Paladins will have the highest single target mitigation.

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Meh. If DRK brings better DPS than Paladin I'm doubting I'll miss the PLD too often. The reality is that you always want a Warrior for Storm's Path/Eye. Path is whole party mitigation and really crucial against raid-wide early in a raid cycle. DRK's cooldowns look pretty good themselves. I'm far from calling any tank default MT in Heavensward. Paladin hardly does anything to deserve the status now.
War pretty clearly has (and really, always has had) plenty of mitigation for the MT position.
Now, with the new parry CD, against physical damage, a War is going to be able to to double-up on Inner Beast + a second mitigation/eHP move for at least 4 tank-killers in a row on the same 30 second timer. IB + Intuition->ToB->Veng->Intuition.

War does have plenty of mitigation for MT, but Paladin always has been the most favored MT for progression. Of course you will be able to MT any content in Heavensward with each of the 3 tanks, never said anything else.

the wording of clemency confuses me

Seems like damage will be around the same between PLD and WAR, PLD always had lower potency per attack but had a faster auto attack and more off cool down attacks.

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

the wording of clemency confuses me

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Unless it's completely wrong, Clemency seems to be a 3 second cast time heal that has a hugely high Heal Potency (but will probably only be like a regular Cure for a WHM due to a paladin's low Mind stat). It costs a lot of mana, and you can cast it on anyone. If the person you cast it on is in your party, then you the paladin also get a bonus self heal equal to 50% of the amount you healed the target for. The only reference that springs to mind is Taric's heal from League of Legends which does the same thing.

The 3 second cast time will probably make it worthless when MTing, but as an Offtank you can cast a heal for, say, 1000 health on the MT, and it will also heal you for 500 health. Question is whether this 50% bonus counts if you heal yourself, for 150% total.

That said, high mana cost and 3 second cast time really will limit this to being cast rarely I think, maybe even less than Stoneskin crossclassed is now.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

Unless it's completely wrong... That said, high mana cost and 3 second cast time really will limit this to being cast rarely I think, maybe even less than Stoneskin crossclassed is now.

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The tooltip in the op says it has a tp cost but it could be wrong. If it's tp, which makes no sense to me it would seriously reduce its use to emergency situations only i.e healer low on hp and other is dead. If it's mp then its not really a big deal since mp is never an issue for PLD's who know how to manage it and shelltron restores mp every 30 seconds.

The tp cost on the site it is taken of is just inacurate in a lot of cases. It is an mp cost here (and a hefty one).

Also regarding potency of the heals: currently second wind on a tank healed for about 1k ish hp, with 650 potency. Both war and pld heals looks like they are going to be around 2k hp by our current standard. Not too shabby, nothing game breaking either. Pld going 2k heal on a member + 1k self heal is definitely way better than their current lol 10% stoneskin. War will probably just use it for tp... i know i will :p

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Originally Posted by Marxam

If it's mp then its not really a big deal since mp is never an issue for PLD's who know how to manage it and shelltron restores mp every 30 seconds.

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Sheltron seems to require the attack to be blocked, which means it only restores mana if you're actually tanking and being attacked. Clemency seems to be a skill you only ever really use when you're not actively being attacked due to the 3 second cast time, so you'll be limited to Riotblade for MP regain.

The main thing I meant with the limit of the high mana cost though is that you're not going to be able to chain spam this skill after doing a tank swap as you'll probably be out of mana after 2-3 casts and need to go back to riot blading. All conjecture at least until we see it in action, but it feels like Clemency is going to be one of those rare situational things you cast once or twice a fight at the absolute maximum, rather than a way for a Paladin to contribute meaningful HPS output.

Pld gets a 1200 pot heal that becomes a 600 pot self heal... I may not switch to dark with pld changes.

Also... 3 sec cast is not a big deal. Think of all the spell speed buffs with ast and sch making that faster... Then in all honesty since enmity isn't a big deal to keep as the mt throwing a heal here and there to dps or healers So they can focus you or dps isn't that hard. Not like pld dps as mt will really suffer if we weave in casts.