Removing EXP from dungeon critters?

What is the point of killing them then?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

What is the point of killing them then?

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They didn't say they're removing it all


* The number of experience points received from bosses has been increased, while that received from all other enemies has been decreased. Please note this does not affect the overall experience gained from the above dungeons.

its so it stops the first room runs which they do not like

Um..

[2.0] In accordance with the increase in level cap, the distribution of experience points in the following dungeons has been adjusted:
The Sunken Temple of Qarn / Cutter's Cry / Stone Vigil / Dzemael Darkhold / Aurum Vale

* The number of experience points received from bosses has been increased, while that received from all other enemies has been decreased. Please note this does not affect the overall experience gained from the above dungeons.

Yea.. lowered, not removed. They just gave bosses more xp to eliminate those who were using the first room of a dungeon to xp and then leave and do said dungeon again.

They didn't remove the exp from them, they lowered it, and increased boss exp, so that over all exp for the dungeon is the same.

Dungeons were not meant to just have the first room farms that go on. I take it this is to prevent those things.

So players don't do first room runs, exit and repeat.

People abusing first room to level themselves up.

Dungeons are meant to be finished, not abandoned halfway.

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Originally Posted by elemental10

People abusing first room to level themselves up.

Dungeons are meant to be finished, not abandoned halfway.

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exactly this lol im all for this change about time they removed the 1st room leveling XD

They don't like your half runs, they want to stop them.

Good, in my opinion

I remember leveling my WHM, my first level 50. And I got to DD and we did the big first room pull and it was scary! But we did it.

And then the tank was like, "Bye guys, I was just here for the speed pull. Gonna queue up again with a new party. Peace."

We waited 45 minutes and never got a new tank. I had to actually ask my friends to help me get my first DD clear. :x

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

They didn't say they're removing it all


* The number of experience points received from bosses has been increased, while that received from all other enemies has been decreased. Please note this does not affect the overall experience gained from the above dungeons.

its so it stops the first room runs which they do not like

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Unfortunately, It will have the side effect of people skipping even more trash mobs than they do now. Though this change mitigates at least some of the lost XP by boosting the boss kill, still better off while leveling to just kill everything.
Believe it or not, But a trash pack rewards a total XP roughly equivalent to a Levequest or easy FATE. Yet people insist on skipping them "because its more efficient"

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Welp, I guess we will just skip everything now since trash is useless.

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Called it. /facedesk.

Welp, I guess we will just skip everything now since trash is useless.

This might hurt more than it helps in the long run, with more players 'speed running' dungeons. Only time will tell though.

I will actually get angry if people sit and kill trash, not worth the experience or my time anymore. One of the reasons I love Everquest is the trash gave more experience then bosses and loot as well. Since there is no reason to do it, why do it?

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Unfortunately, It will have the side effect of people skipping even more trash mobs than they do now. Though this change mitigates at least some of the lost XP by boosting the boss kill, still better off while leveling to just kill everything.
Believe it or not, But a trash pack rewards a total XP roughly equivalent to a Levequest or easy FATE. Yet people insist on skipping them "because its more efficient"

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I'm pretty sure the change of experience is going to be that the mobs inside the dungeon will roughly give you the same experience as a normal monster at the same level. Sure, you'll probably get several parties who just want to speed run since they're taking advantage of the super-nerfed Relic Reborn quest to get their glamours, but at least you'll actually be able to queue for dungeons like Qarn and AV.

RIP full clears of AV though...

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

I'm pretty sure the change of experience is going to be that the mobs inside the dungeon will roughly give you the same experience as a normal monster at the same level. Sure, you'll probably get several parties who just want to speed run since they're taking advantage of the super-nerfed Relic Reborn quest to get their glamours, but at least you'll actually be able to queue for dungeons like Qarn and AV.

RIP full clears of AV though...

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So, useless. Got it girly. Lawl. =)

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

So, useless. Got it girly. Lawl. =)

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Are you like 5y/o or something?

No, I just dislike stupid development decisions. People don't learn from Guild Wars 2's Failures. I hate "speed clearing" I want monsters to be worth experience and give loot. I want to kill the entire dungeon. However it seems people don't want that.

Mobs inside dungeons have way more health then mobs outside, and the same experience? That makes them useless, their entire existence is meant to be skipped now.

a better change would've been to just up Boss EXP for dungouns. Don't also in the same hand nerf the mob kills because then it just means we're going to go back to not running the dungouns at all for exp/leveling

This is a huge dissuasion for tanks who want to level via dungouns, in my opinion. I doubt the EXP for bosses will be big enough to compensate for -all- the mobs they're reducing, and I feel like SE made a huge mistake with this one.

And, as a side note, yea, I like first room runs with a pre-made PF. I don't understand this knee-jerk reaction.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

No, I just dislike stupid development decisions. People don't learn from Guild Wars 2's Failures. I hate "speed clearing" I want monsters to be worth experience and give loot. I want to kill the entire dungeon. However it seems people don't want that.

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Oh, I don't doubt the trash will still be worth clearing - but they want to get away from "you only stay in the dungeon for 5 minutes". They moved away from it when Brayflox HM runs through the first two bosses were a thing for Soldiery by shifting where the tomestones were being given, and they wanted to emphasize away from it here. Because there's already one post illustrating the problem - worse than speedruns skipping a few optional encounters are players who leave others hanging because they "got what they wanted" and left, simply because the rest was a comparative waste of time. Especially when talking about content people actually need to clear to progress.

Most low-level dungeons aren't designed to be speedrun anyway, honestly - trash is everywhere and trying to make a huge pull is suffering.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I doubt the EXP for bosses will be big enough to compensate for -all- the mobs they're reducing, and I feel like SE made a huge mistake with this one.

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They straight up said in the patch notes the total EXP isn't changing.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

a better change would've been to just up Boss EXP for dungouns. Don't also in the same hand nerf the mob kills because then it just means we're going to go back to not running the dungouns at all for exp/leveling

This is a huge dissuasion for tanks who want to level via dungouns, in my opinion. I doubt the EXP for bosses will be big enough to compensate for -all- the mobs they're reducing, and I feel like SE made a huge mistake with this one.

And, as a side note, yea, I like first room runs with a pre-made PF. I don't understand this knee-jerk reaction.

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Read the notes again - total EXP gain for the dungeon is unchanged.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Oh, I don't doubt the trash will still be worth clearing - but they want to get away from "you only stay in the dungeon for 5 minutes". They moved away from it when Brayflox HM runs through the first two bosses were a thing for Soldiery by shifting where the tomestones were being given, and they wanted to emphasize away from it here. Because there's already one post illustrating the problem - worse than speedruns skipping a few optional encounters are players who leave others hanging because they "got what they wanted" and left, simply because the rest was a comparative waste of time. Especially when talking about content people actually need to clear to progress.

Most low-level dungeons aren't designed to be speedrun anyway, honestly - trash is everywhere and trying to make a huge pull is suffering.

They straight up said in the patch notes the total EXP isn't changing.

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Well, now instead of helping my friends do dungeons because I know they are worth good experience. I will tell them to go run fates instead. I will also refuse to group with them because they are a waste of time, and fates are faster. It also nerfs several abilities I liked on my Warrior. Why even be a warrior now if I can't massive pull anymore? I will be a paladin and skip.

A few bad apples in a video game. Big freaking deal. A hammer was smashed in a fun play-style because of a few exploiters and whiners. They should make their own groups if they can't deal with a bad matchmaker.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Read the notes again - total EXP gain for the dungeon is unchanged.

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Mmm...

Not sure how I feel on it, then. Doesn't that at the same time just encourage people to plow through the dungoun as fast as possible, focusing on bosses / possibly skipping the trash?

It does encourage full clears though, so maybe it's good? I can't tell. It might be the lesser of two evils since now people who want to clear quick won't be screwing people who want exp...

Hmn... still say they shouldn't of touched the regular Mob's EXP.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Mmm...

Not sure how I feel on it, then. Doesn't that at the same time just encourage people to plow through the dungoun as fast as possible, focusing on bosses / possibly skipping the trash?

It does encourage full clears though, so maybe it's good? I can't tell. It might be the lesser of two evils since now people who want to clear quick won't be screwing people who want exp...

Hmn... still say they shouldn't of touched the regular Mob's EXP.

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Yes, it does encourage speedrunning. But it discourages room-1 farming.
Speedrunning is not a bad thing, as long as all the players in the group are able to handle it.
Room-1 farming is a terrible thing.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Well, now instead of helping my friends do dungeons because I know they are worth good experience. I will tell them to go run fates instead. I will also refuse to group with them because they are a waste of time, and fates are faster. It also nerfs several abilities I liked on my Warrior. Why even be a warrior now if I can't massive pull anymore? I will be a paladin and skip.

A few bad apples in a video game. Big freaking deal. A hammer was smashed in a fun play-style because of a few exploiters and whiners. They should make their own groups if they can't deal with a bad matchmaker.

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So you'd rather be a jerk and not help your friends.. interesting.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

So you'd rather be a jerk and not help your friends.. interesting.

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I am helping them, by doing things faster so we can do fun content and not worry about stupid levels <3 Leveling isn't fun for me, its a waste of time.

Killing hundreds of mobs for experience, however was fun for me. Very fun, made me feel powerful. Now I feel like a coward skipping it.

Some times you just have to call your friends fat, to help them get a better body. ;) If you just tell them they look good all the time your lying to them. Lying is bad.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Yes, it does encourage speedrunning. But it discourages room-1 farming.
Speedrunning is not a bad thing, as long as all the players in the group are able to handle it.
Room-1 farming is a terrible thing.

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So they nerfed a 20% faster way that caused barely any stress or lag to the server. So now we will have hundreds of people instead fighting for fates! YEAH!

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Well, now instead of helping my friends do dungeons because I know they are worth good experience. I will tell them to go run fates instead. I will also refuse to group with them because they are a waste of time

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Have you been reading? Dungeons are still worth the exact same amount of experience they always were. Which is to say worth a hell of a lot more than FATEs.

Also shows how much of a 'friend' you are if you're not willing to help someone out because it isn't your personal Most Efficient Option.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Well, now instead of helping my friends do dungeons because I know they are worth good experience. I will tell them to go run fates instead.

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It's the same XP/Time that it is now. What's hard to comprehend about this? In fact, if you're skipping any trash at all in those dungeons, you now get more exp. You know those side rooms no one does in DD, or the mobs everyone skips in AV first room? I guarantee you that the mobs there are having their XP added to the boss the same as all the others. You're dumb if you think this is a nerf to full clear XP. The only thing being changed, and quite understandably, is "DD first room spam" groups.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

So you'd rather be a jerk and not help your friends.. interesting.

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This isn't new. OP also said he'd lie to his friends point blank about how many MSQ quests there are to get into HW content.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Yes, it does encourage speedrunning. But it discourages room-1 farming.
Speedrunning is not a bad thing, as long as all the players in the group are able to handle it.
Room-1 farming is a terrible thing.

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Speedrunning can be bad in some regards. If they reduced EXP from reuglar monsters enough, then speedrunning without fighting packs of mobs would become ideal. This is good for people seekign to do speed runs as jobs that aren't good at AoE, and will be more inclusive to them.

However, at the same time, do you really want a New Player to be told "Hey, just doing the bosses, you still get good EXP and we'll get to finish fast." ... Keep in mind, the Bosses tend to substantially faster than all their trash, so skipping trash might become the ideal. In teh end, it still hurts players trying to get actual EXP out of the dungoun, it's just the opposite of what we have now.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Have you been reading? Dungeons are still worth the exact same amount of experience they always were. Which is to say worth a hell of a lot more than FATEs.

Also shows how much of a 'friend' you are if you're not willing to help someone out because it isn't your personal Most Efficient Option.

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Its about the EPM. It is much easier to do fates then to do dungeons, especially chain fates. Which are 5 minutes and worth more then an entire duty finger which can take up to an hour.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Speedrunning can be bad in some regards. If they reduced EXP from reuglar monsters enough, then speedrunning without fighting packs of mobs would become ideal. This is good for people seekign to do speed runs as jobs that aren't good at AoE, and will be more inclusive to them.

However, at the same time, do you really want a New Player to be told "Hey, just doing the bosses, you still get good EXP and we'll get to finish fast." ... Keep in mind, the Bosses tend to substantially faster than all their trash, so skipping trash might become the ideal. In teh end, it still hurts players trying to get actual EXP out of the dungoun, it's just the opposite of what we have now.

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People are already speedrunning now, avoiding most packs they can, or just nuking several packs at once.
Now this strat will loot them more experience, thus also looting more experience for the new players.

People will prefer having DPS with AoE in their group? They already do.

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

People are already speedrunning now, avoiding most packs they can, or just nuking several packs at once.
Now this strat will loot them more experience, thus also looting more experience for the new players.

People will prefer having DPS with AoE in their group? They already do.

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We speed run at level 50. Not for leveling dungouns, dont' apply the level 50 lgoci to the leveling process.

Right now, there are two ways to run level 50 dungouns:
1) For a clear, which involves the sacpulls we used to use in 2.0 AK
2) For EXP, which involves killing monsters on the way or, yea, doing "First Room" style.

Now, if we make all the groups the second one, players who are leveling will see less EXP because people will want to skip to bosses, who are the most lucrative now...

Edit-in: Mind you, the exception is AK first room runs because of the fact that the crystal's light gives you such a substantial damage mitigation buff that you CAN tank AoE. However, try doing a -mass-ve pull in any pre-50 dungoun similar to what we do post-50. You'll find it's not quite as easy...

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Its about the EPM. It is much easier to do fates then to do dungeons, especially chain fates. Which are 5 minutes and worth more then an entire duty finger which can take up to an hour.

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If that were true, dungeons right now wouldn't be worth doing over FATEs.

It's still the same length of time for the same amount of EXP.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

If that were true, dungeons right now wouldn't be worth doing over FATEs.

It's still the same length of time for the same amount of EXP.

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No, because DD with a premade group gives 45k xp every 2 minutes. It is just hard to do. For someone whose played since 2013, you sure don't know much about the game. There is no wait time either, unlike fate grinding in which you have to run/wait for fates to pop.

Now, i'm out. No point, nothing I will say will change the game anyways. I will have to find a new way to play with my friends I guess <3

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

We speed run at level 50. Not for leveling dungouns, dont' apply the level 50 lgoci to the leveling process.

Right now, there are two ways to run level 50 dungouns:
1) For a clear, which involves the sacpulls we used to use in 2.0 AK
2) For EXP, which involves killing monsters on the way or, yea, doing "First Room" style.

Now, if we make all the groups the second one, players who are leveling will see less EXP because people will want to skip to bosses, who are the most lucrative now...

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Level 50 people are in low level dungeons, mainly due to roulette, and they will speedrun. Now speedrun will give more exp than before. A full clear will give the same exp than before = you don't get screwed when you are leveling and your group speedruns as much.

What? Skip bosses?! You make no sense. Bosses are where the EXP is, why would you want to skip bosses? O.o

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Originally Posted by sirDarts

Level 50 people are in low level dungeons, mainly due to roulette, and they will speedrun. Now speedrun will give more exp than before. A full clear will give the same exp than before = you don't get screwed when you are leveling and your group speedruns as much.

What? Skip bosses?! You make no sense. Bosses are where the EXP is, why would you want to skip bosses? O.o

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Skip -to- bosses, as in skipping the bulk of the monsters and going to the bosses to get the maximum exp/hour :)

Edit-in: Wanna clarify...
A level 50 may be in low level roulette, but due to the nature of level synch, they are not strong enough to do massive pulls. I find most tanks+healers even level synched will struggle with groups of 2 pulls. This often is less effective than pulling single groups. The low-level content while level synched is surprisingly well-balanced for group vs. monsters. :)

However, you're thinking in terms of post-50, where people can pull the entire dungoun before a boss and straight-tank it with decent use of mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

No, because DD with a premade group gives 45k xp every 2 minutes.

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It honestly doesn't matter how fast I level up.. oh I shaved off three minutes to get to level 51? Big whoop.
I personally hate FATE leveling so I never do it exclusively... and I'm probably far from the only one. I mean if that's how you like to play the game, then, fine... I wouldn't particularly enjoy a party member like you anyway.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Yea.. lowered, not removed. They just gave bosses more xp to eliminate those who were using the first room of a dungeon to xp and then leave and do said dungeon again.

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ALSO it give leveling players the chance to get good exp even when they get teamed up with players that just want to finish the inscance for a quest or relic item and are not clearing the whole instance.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Some times you just have to call your friends fat, to help them get a better body. ;) If you just tell them they look good all the time your lying to them. Lying is bad.

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If lying is bad, how do you explain this doozy from one of your posts a few months back?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Now lets use our brains for a second ok?


Me: "Talks about how awesome of a time he has had in X Game."

Friend: "Wow, that sounds like a great game! You seem to be having a lot of fun in this game, and the new content sounds awesome! They are raising the level cap so I have a chance to play with you right?"

Me: "Pauses... reddens.."

Friend: "Whats wrong?"

Me: "Sorry, but I won't be able to play with you for awhile."

Friend: "Uhm.. but that sounds ridiculous, why?"

Me: "*Huge Breathe..* First you have to complete all the story content, then you have to get a certain ilvl, then after 50 you need to complete about 150-180 more quests, even more then you had to do to level 50. Then after that you have to complete the level 50-60 quests all whilst playing with pugs and new players since nobody really needs to do most of that content anymore."

Friend: ".... Enjoy your game man."

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Face it guys, OP is a troll.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

No, because DD with a premade group gives 45k xp every 2 minutes. It is just hard to do. For someone whose played since 2013, you sure don't know much about the game.

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Ah, so this IS about "but my DD first room farms". Trust me, I know all about them.

And my answer is, deal. It was specifically expressed during the reading that they wanted to get rid of that.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

It honestly doesn't matter how fast I level up.. oh I shaved off three minutes to get to level 51? Big whoop.
I personally hate FATE leveling so I never do it exclusively... and I'm probably far from the only one. I mean if that's how you like to play the game, then, fine... I wouldn't particularly enjoy a party member like you anyway.

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I hate waiting. Unlike most people I work until I get the job done. Sitting on my bum and waiting is NOT fun nore challenging. However the rush you get from constantly pulling a room and almost dying is fun to me. I am glad you cept your lazy playstyle. =)

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Ah, so this IS about "but my DD first room farms". Trust me, I know all about them.

And my answer is, deal. It was specifically expressed during the reading that they wanted to get rid of that.

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Well, I guess they will also "deal" with the consequences of removing it too. GG ;)

This change will only make the community worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul_ymJdF7O8

Its like they want to remove the awesome play-style of gaming... =(