Paladin emnity generation is terrible

Oh look, in my 2.5 gcd I can only hit the mob with a subpar attack. Also, I have no burst emnity, oh look ninja just pulled, oh look blm just pulled. I better use my cooldowns, oh wait it's not helping. Oh look, party dead

Hate the player not the game

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Hate the player not the game

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Pretty sure it's the game, seeing a Pally MT lose threat that has the Excalbur Zeta says everything

FoF -> Shield Lob -> Spirits Within -> FB -> CoS -> SB -> RoH

Shouldn't lose hate to anyone or anything. If you still feel like you're having trouble, try STR or crafted accessories.

If you're using the gear that shows on your Lodestone, thats why. I only have the Novus and I don't have an issues.

It's usually pretty hard to lose hate in this game unless you're doing something seriously wrong, or if a WHM is overhealing excessively.

If your gear is anything to go by, that's one of the reasons. Speacily since at this point in the game almost everyone has a potiec weapon, putting you about 30 ilevel behind. Unless you're in the ilevel 110 capped dungeons in which case, just sounds like you're a inexpreined paladin. But yeah. FoF flash flash flash shield lob flash flash flash. Thats the simple way. Unless their single targeting in which case go by Spooky advice. But really should be mass pulling and aoe spam

Yeah, Eye_Gore is right here, you're essentially using an i90 weapon and the DPS pulling hate are probably using i120-i130 weapons. You'll need to get a better weapon to really hope to hold hate at the very least. You're sort of starting gearing when most people have finished, right on the cusp of the expansion, which can't be a lot of fun as a tank I imagine. Just try and get a better weapon and you'll be solid, though.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

FoF -> Shield Lob -> Spirits Within -> FB -> CoS -> SB -> RoH

Shouldn't lose hate to anyone or anything. If you still feel like you're having trouble, try STR or crafted accessories.

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You'll still manage just fine even in pure VIT gear. The threat buff has pretty much made management negligible.

Especially as PLD, there's a problem between the chair and the keyboard if you can't hold threat using 123 after your opener.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

Pretty sure it's the game, seeing a Pally MT lose threat that has the Excalbur Zeta says everything

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A PLD with an ilvl 135 weapon should never lose aggro except against a better equiped tank (or WAR burst).

30/30 str points and crit/det/acc zeta, have no issues keeping thing just with flash cos and riot combo
The weapon ilv in this game is retarded, one would think tanks would need gear first but all it does is increase hp pool, need that weapon to maintain dps to hold threat

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

Hate the player not the game

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Amen. PLD enmity is pretty good but not as good as WAR.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

Pretty sure it's the game, seeing a Pally MT lose threat that has the Excalbur Zeta says everything

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No there is not much you can do other than maximize your pull i.e FoF > Shield Lob > CoS > Spirits Within > RoH combo. I'm war ot in t13 and even with full vit accessories, I have to hold back a but before I go berserk as I can easily steal aggro from the mt pld in just one BB combo, especially during the first minute. Its even worse when I crit.

I find tanking as a PLD next to impossible because a DPS will seemingly always rip aggro away.

Then I try spamming flash 4 times and it's just... ugh.

The big difference in gear level between players is about to reset as we all reach the new level cap and start from scratch on gearing again.

Very exciting to have a level playing field and new things to learn again.

A paladin at equivalent gear level to other jobs can actually do some huge enmity.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

The big difference in gear level between players is about to reset as we all reach the new level cap and start from scratch on gearing again.

Very exciting to have a level playing field and new things to learn again.

A paladin at equivalent gear level to other jobs can actually do some huge enmity.

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Except it's not. People are probably waiting with gear sets for the new jobs, old players are already capped with ilevel 130 gear and if you're referring to the level cap, most of the dungeons are level capped now. If they were having trouble holding hate before, it's going to be about the same, more so since they don't have shield oath (it's not needed, just for people not good at keeping hate). It would be a even playing field only if they are already capped at launch, which is in about 2 weeks. :3

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

I find tanking as a PLD next to impossible because a DPS will seemingly always rip aggro away.

Then I try spamming flash 4 times and it's just... ugh.

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That's your mistake. You don't need to use flash on single target mobs/bosses. You want to get into your RoH combo asap. Flash is for aoe only and the only time you should be loosing aggro is if a blm gets crits and procs.

Every time I see one of these threads where someone complains about agro, I always imagine they are these people...

http://www.refinedguy.com/wp-content...r-fail-gif.gif

http://www.thenamesponyboy.com/wp-co...il-ponyboy.gif

http://www.ohmagif.com/wp-content/up...tempt-fail.gif

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pi...ancefail-5.gif

http://www.everydaykiss.com/wp-conte...il-Gifs-15.gif

http://www.graphics99.com/wp-content...ge-fails-2.gif

http://wanna-joke.com/wp-content/upl.../fail-gif1.gif

http://web-images.chacha.com/raw/21d...4f53e50c35.gif

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Originally Posted by Marxam

the only time you should be loosing aggro is if a blm gets crits and procs.

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Not even then...

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

Every time I see one of these threads where someone complains about agro, I always imagine they are these people...

http://www.refinedguy.com/wp-content...r-fail-gif.gif

http://www.thenamesponyboy.com/wp-co...il-ponyboy.gif

http://www.ohmagif.com/wp-content/up...tempt-fail.gif

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pi...ancefail-5.gif

http://www.everydaykiss.com/wp-conte...il-Gifs-15.gif

http://www.graphics99.com/wp-content...ge-fails-2.gif

http://wanna-joke.com/wp-content/upl.../fail-gif1.gif

http://web-images.chacha.com/raw/21d...4f53e50c35.gif

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I like your style with this one...

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Originally Posted by Seku

I like your style with this one...

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My responses...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqrlkiMz8p1qg2ljg.gif

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...prada_deal.gif

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Originally Posted by Marxam

That's your mistake. You don't need to use flash on single target mobs/bosses. You want to get into your RoH combo asap. Flash is for aoe only and the only time you should be loosing aggro is if a blm gets crits and procs.

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BLM can crit all they want. A FoF'd opener with some flashes establishes enough aggro that mobs are not going anywhere.

With an i110 Burtgang, I very rarely lose aggro on PLD even to i135 Flare-spamming BLMs, NINs, DRGs, any DPS/healers; the only times I do are those in which I have a lapse in attention for a few seconds (and even then, its rather simple to recover from, since its usually a single mob). On bosses, I'm only going to lose aggro if there is a better geared PLD in Shield Oath or a WAR going ham.

As was stated before, I'm fairly certain it is the player, not the game. Either gear issues or just how they handle things, though if the PLD has a Zeta I think its fairly safe to say the issue isn't with their gear. I don't feel there is anything wrong with PLDs ability to generate and hold hate.

Didn't read whole thread but...

Definitely a player issue.

My paladin is i129 with Excalibur (almost done with Zeta) - nobody rips hate from me. I most always rip it from someone else... Even at Novus stage, I didn't have any issue...

The only problems I faces are people (dps) who tag a mob before me, but I quickly correct that. Also, those other tanks who like to play the pull-of-hate game in CT's... Your voke does nothing! /grin

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Originally Posted by Kaitlen

Didn't read whole thread but...

Definitely a player issue.

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But your just making a “statement” and you think that because its your statement it has to be the one and only true answer!? Yes such statements are definitely “player issues”. Its the item level problem here and if you disagree get straight i95 and show us all that you are superior holding against 1lvl 135 dds or ... fail

Its a player issue. With my i130 weapon right now I have yet to have any actual problems holding aggro against single targets, and in groups I only lose if I didn't group up mobs quite right for Scorn/Flash (and usually its only one enemy which a Provoke is enough to get it back to me to get more hate on it.)

Before Zeta came out (since around that time was when I got my Poe sword/shield) I was using a i90 weapon/i80-100 armor and was still able to hold hate off of people in full i130 gear including weapon. Granted I had some close calls, particularly with a Dragoon FC mate who knows very well what he is doing (more so than I for sure.), but then I'm an average tank and still was able to hold it off good dps.

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Originally Posted by Neifirst

But your just making a “statement” and you think that because its your statement it has to be the one and only true answer!? Yes such statements are definitely “player issues”. Its the item level problem here and if you disagree get straight i95 and show us all that you are superior holding against 1lvl 135 dds or ... fail

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The problem is that people don't keep up their rotations... The other tanks I see, some just don't keep up their rotations or simply don't combo correctly. Weapon or gear don't mean much if they don't have the basics down.

I have a friend who has an i81 PLD, fresh 50 player and he does choose to OT in cases where there's a higher geared tank present. But, in normal tanking situations... He doesn't appear to have problems holding hate when i120+ players are present.

Best answer: results may vary based on player skill, attentiveness and gear.

It can be a bit of both. Ilv and skill.

You can be the most geared out tank with the most STR ACC's on and highest yes but it means sod all if you ain't doing your role right.

You can be a lower ilv tank compared to add and healers but and still keep Aggro but if the gap is too big what do you expect?

I beg to differ, unless I just suck at WAR.

I recently began using my tanks more (lots of PF and DF groups waiting on tanks).

I'm no expert, but at the start of a battle, say, Imdugud (T10), as WAR when they make me MT, I lose hate a bit in the beginning. As PLD, I do not.

In a dungeon speed run, my WAR lose hate more on a mob than my PLD. Both are iLv113. In a particular run, the highly gear BLM (Zeta and Dreadwyrm) popped a couple of Flares. As WAR, I lost hate when I settled the mobs after pulling. As PLD, I can count on three fingers how often I lose hate under the same condition.

Someone in my FC found it surprising that I survive longer as PLD than WAR. Another shocked that my PLD hold hate better than my WAR.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

Oh look, in my 2.5 gcd I can only hit the mob with a subpar attack. Also, I have no burst emnity, oh look ninja just pulled, oh look blm just pulled. I better use my cooldowns, oh wait it's not helping. Oh look, party dead

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seems to me someone doesn't know how enmity works. You're not supposed to body pull with your combo opener

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Another shocked that my PLD hold hate better than my WAR.

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This IS shocking. Pop CDs Overpower -> Overpower -> Overpower -> fall asleep.
If you are unsure on threat, do one more Overpower.

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Originally Posted by Neifirst

But your just making a “statement” and you think that because its your statement it has to be the one and only true answer!? Yes such statements are definitely “player issues”. Its the item level problem here and if you disagree get straight i95 and show us all that you are superior holding against 1lvl 135 dds or ... fail

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Then that means the tank needs to man up and get some more gear. An entire set of 110 is handed out these days in hours and can easily hold threat against BiS DPS.

Using gear as an excuse to suck is a pretty weak and bad arguement. It IS a player issue. Either you are not keeping up with gear (which is also your job), or you are not doing rotations properly. End of story.

Honestly I havent had trouble holding hate since I hit novus weapon and before that burtang was more than enough. He might be tryign to spam cooldowns or something before hate solidifies.... I dunno.

Gear isnt too hard to attain and if you can enter instances where there is no cap then you should be at a point where this isnt an issue.

This is definitely a player gear or stat problem most of the time when I OT I have to stick to riot blade and fracture to not pull hate even in sword oath. So glad in the expansion we are getting a non enmity combo.

I usually don't have a problem with aggro to other classes other then WAR. All though low levels without shield oath will make you work to hold aggro.

has anyone said git gud yet?

Because i have never, ever had problems holding enmity with paladin. I mean, you have provoke ffs. I can see if you just find a way to royally screw up and can't provoke them off, but 1,2, halone and the occasional scorn should take pretty much anything.

I taught a pld with 130 wep to keep aggro off bis war with 135 wep doing eye butchers eye and the only time the war would rip is if he crit IB during the 9 hit opener. This is definitely a pebkac (problem exists between keyboard and chair) thing.

i110 new-ish pally here. I do just fine holding hate in most situations. Holy spamming and triple flares dont do much against flash and CoS. The only problem i usually have is holding single target hate against a godly NIN.

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Originally Posted by Meleoffs

I taught a pld with 130 wep to keep aggro off bis war with 135 wep doing eye butchers eye and the only time the war would rip is if he crit IB during the 9 hit opener. This is definitely a pebkac (problem exists between keyboard and chair) thing.

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I don't know if I just missed it in the thread or if nobody mentioned this, but I'll agree keeping threat as a PLD isn't any different than a warrior, but if you are trying to keep threat off the warrior (and succeeding) I have to ask: Is this warrior using Unchained/Berserk/Inner Release with SE>BB>SE(or BB)? If so, I have to ask how you manage that. When I run warrior and do the above, there's no contest, I get hate and keep it. When I run on pld and a warrior does that, I lose hate, I might get it back later on, but I might not either.

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Originally Posted by Habien

I don't know if I just missed it in the thread or if nobody mentioned this, but I'll agree keeping threat as a PLD isn't any different than a warrior, but if you are trying to keep threat off the warrior (and succeeding) I have to ask: Is this warrior using Unchained/Berserk/Inner Release with SE>BB>SE(or BB)? If so, I have to ask how you manage that. When I run warrior and do the above, there's no contest, I get hate and keep it. When I run on pld and a warrior does that, I lose hate, I might get it back later on, but I might not either.

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That's why WAR opens. Outside of their Unchained initial burst PLD should have zero issues with hate. If a group is having the PLD pull then the WAR won't be using unchained. The idea isn't to fight for hate, its to synergize to maximize hate and DPS.

stop trying to get my paladin adjusted yo, it works just fine.

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Originally Posted by Habien

Unchained/Berserk/Inner Release with SE>BB>SE(or BB).

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If your intention is to get hate from the PLD, yes you can certainly do that with Unchained/Zerk/IR SE -> BB -> SE/BB. Otherwise, you want to go with:

Unchained -> HS -> Brutal Swing -> Maim -> Berserk + IR -> SE -> Fracture -> HS -> Maim -> SP -> IB -> drop Defiance -> HS -> Maim -> SE

The only time I pull off a PLD (who's wearing full VIT) is if he has a Shiva wep, and I'm at 600+ STR with party buff. So you're really unlikely to pull off someone if you simply don't BB.

Alternatively, if you want to min/max DPS, the WAR opens and is free to SE -> BB -> SE, then swaps when Unchained/FoF wear off. But yeah, if you BB with Defiance and all your offensive buffs going... as OT... you're going to pull... but you kinda shouldn't do that as the OT.