I am currently working on the rank 34 mission, Forever Taken. As I'm wandering around Mor Dhona (what should be an extremely dangerous zone), I realize that I'm going through the steps of this mission solo and with absurd ease. No monsters in my way of the ??? points I need, no challenge at all.
the dev tag in my title is about "Quests revolving around the Danger facing Eorzea".
SE, while you're adding these quests, please don't forget about the current world missions. I don't feel that the major world storyline missions should be this solo-able.
[dev1001] The Ease of the Game
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03-11-2011, 07:35 AMBalbanes[dev1001] The Ease of the Game
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03-11-2011, 07:40 AMSizeMatters
Yeah we need more challenging quests
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03-11-2011, 08:14 AMSpudrik
Everything about this game is easy. Quests with difficult NMs above the rank required for the quest would be nice so as to encourage grouping up to complete challenges
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03-11-2011, 08:53 AMMariyaShidou
Quest need more mobs that have 5x to 10x the HP they have now. Like that r36 ARC quest is ridiculous, one Multi shot each Yarzon and Multishot + Barrage on the final NPC while they barely scratch my ARC. And yet the cutscene showed that we were equal, rofl.
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03-11-2011, 10:33 AMAlexiaKidd
I just did those archer missions and they were so easy. This is a big problem with the game so much of the story involves running from one place to another reading some text and then running back maybe 1 shot some mobs at some point inbetween. I know SE want to make the game solo friendly and the story to be done on any class, but are we expected to believe an R50 Weaver is going to topple the Garlean Empire?
Come on SE give us a challenge I get no sense of achievement from accomplishing anything in the game at the minute because it's on easy mode. -
03-11-2011, 07:51 PMSeif
I know the quests are easy but I think the auto marked locations are even worse. Because the map tells me exactly where to go and what to kill the result is that all of the quest dialogue becomes unimportant. I have as much motivation to read the dialogue as I have regarding the leve-text. For the record I ALWAYS read through every interesting bit f dialogue the characters in Vana'diel speak.
Isn't there any middle-ground between making quests impossible to complete without a walktrough and so streamlined and spoon-fed that I literally feel like a retard when pretending to "play" the game? -
03-11-2011, 10:23 PMPayadopaYes, please!Quote:
Originally Posted by Seif
Even the supposed to be awesome quests are boring as all you do is follow a yellow circle.
Did the r26 quest a few days ago which told me to sneak past a few mobs. I walked like from A to B and back in about 20min and found like 2 mobs. Two! And I wasn't even allowed to kill them.. AND that was a quest I had to undertake with my path companion.. The way these quests are designed is so beyond me... -
03-11-2011, 10:44 PMYUGON
The Main problem is that the first development team, made this game with the idea to let the Casual players enjoy it at it's max. What SE have to see is that casual players can enjoy some aspects of a Hardcore MMO (grinding, questing, levequest, etc..) but hardcore player will never enjoy a casual MMO.
If a casual player wants to Rank up to it's max a job, it will take a lot of time. If a Hardcore player wants the same, it will take few time, but both players will enjoy it.
If the game is designed for casuals, then why insert End Game content? What will be? A Dynamis with pulls of 2 mobs?
The truth is that for now, the new team added some more monsters around the maps. That's a good begin. Let's see how this evolve.
P.D: Agree with everyone up there. -
03-13-2011, 02:49 AMTheStigSE also needs to realize that just because a player is a "casual" player, does not mean they want a game that is incredibly easy. A player being classified as "casual" vs "hardcore" does not mean that they dont have the ability or the desire to face difficult challenges or play through missions quests ect that are hard to complete. It generally means they just dont have as much time to play per week as a "hardcore" player. I am also disappointed by how easy almost everything seems to be. There is no sense of accomplishment when you finish something. Especially any of the missions or quests, I would like to see things significantly more challenging.Quote:
Originally Posted by YUGON
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03-25-2011, 01:52 PMVanguard319if you're referring to the one where you sneak by imperial troops, I actually killed every soldier I came across on the way to the pickup point, mostly to enusure that I wouldn't have to deal with them on the return trip. I would have apprecieated it if they were somewhat tougher though, they died somewhat quick, even without the help of my big, burly, boozin, whorin highlander bud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
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03-25-2011, 02:03 PMXatsh
Completly agree with everything said. Yoshi-P even said the world was to peaceful, that peace needs to be removed.
Everything past rank 1 leves needs to be scaled up like 2-10xs in difficulty, the rank 1 and maby rank 10 should stay at that easy level since they are starting leves.
The game is just way way to easy.
Casual does not mean easy it mean able to play with a limited amount of time. We need FFXI difficulty in some aspects of the game but without the massive time sinks which are negative to casuals.
I understand crafters can do the missions too and maby that is why, but if that is the case they need to have completely different objectives so that it does not ruin it for DoW/DoM. -
03-26-2011, 01:58 AMLillithaFenimore
Well I am a casual player. I don't have much time to play. Yes I want a challenge, however, I do wish to be able to get through things in a certian amount of time. I don't want to have to spend 3 hours + on something when I don't have that sort of time to waste on only one quest, mission, battle etc. I need to be able to solo/duo and still enjoy this game.
So a challenge, yes, I want, but not so much to where I can't do things or feel like I'm accomplishing something. When I do get chances to play, I do feel like I'm progressing on my character already. I don't want it to feel like XI, where I NEED someone to help me and I have to do an event that takes an entire day to do...that is just insane. -
03-26-2011, 02:05 AMJericho
I'm a casual player too, but I didn't mind at all giving up 4 hours every few days to do Dynamis. I don't know what kind of event they're going to implement to be limited time friendly... But I hope there are some long, mass participation events, too.
***Edit***
But I also don't want to see any real endgame content until the level cap is where they're going to leave it, and the battle system is completely stable. So not for a solid year at least, along the same time frame as FFXI (See this thread). They should work on quests and missions until then. -
03-26-2011, 02:28 AMLillithaFenimoreThis. I don't mind endgame content. However I do agree that it really shouldn't be implemented until level cap is stuck and not being moved. There should be end game for those who want to do large group events, however, as long as everyone can see the main story if they chose to solo, is fine. Also, the endgame should be additional CS, information, lore, equip etc. I really do think those who wish to do raids, dyna, type things, etc whatever you wish to call them, should be compensated and rewarded. Personally I just don't want anyone being blocked from doing main story lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
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03-26-2011, 02:50 AMJericho
It almost looks as if the adventuring fellow you get through the missions is an attempt to get rid of the shouting for a party aspect of missions. There are missions where your fellow will fight with you as long as nobody else is in your party. Maybe later you'll have 3 or 4 AI controlled NPCs with you helping you, but for every party member that you bring along, one of those NPCs wont do anything. So yeah, along those lines of not blocking anyone from getting the main storyline going solo. But also on that same coin, the missions will never be terribly difficult.
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03-27-2011, 01:09 AMOrangespanky
While I love a nice challanging quest, I still enjoy the easy-medium ones. Perhaps they should give you an option. Perhaps an option to chose difficulty?
On many occasions the enemies from leves/sidequests to be way too hard. -
03-27-2011, 06:18 AMBlaire
Some of the missions are downright stupid! The Gridania quest where you... talk to the npc to tell it which element the mob changes to... ? Hell I tried to fight the thing and had 1000x more fun doing that than what I had to do to win the mission. Come on, really?
I don't care if they're easy or difficult, just make them interesting! -
03-27-2011, 06:52 AMMaxWinter
I think challenge from quest could come from most intresting fights and tatics rather than putting tons of monster in a zone and making them super tough , that was bad enough in ff11 i think, hope to not see it in mission based quests in 14.
If you made more party based missions, the request i would make is that you can have npc party members join you if you can't find reallife people and that way you can make a tough boss battle but have support without hours of searching for someone , some people think this idea is agaisnt mmorpg but i am putting it out there because of frustrations i had in ff11.
Guild wars 1 did this and it was never a problem . -
03-27-2011, 10:17 PMAlexandriousI sometimes feel like with how easy the game is, all my hard work is for nothing. Games down to 16k active subscribers now while Rift is reaching 3 million. Again that's what I was told, by a few people. Dunno if its really fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd
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03-28-2011, 06:19 AMChioneThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore
I'm not exactly a casual player. I probably have more time than most to play, but at the same time, in FFXI with missions that absolutely required you to have troops of friends to call on to aid you, it was frustrating. There are still missions I haven't done and stories I want to see in that game, but it's difficult to find people to help you out who won't also rush you through the cutscenes and the story.
But at the same time I also feel like the missions are way too easy so far. (I've only completed up to The Toll of the Wardens - which I chose the brute force method and had a great deal more fun than I did on the sneak-past-the-baddies one.) I understand the peaceful options are there for the DoH/DoLers, but I want to put my path companion to work! It feels like my little Gladiator could mow through anything on her own without her dashing archer friend. I don't think anyone would complain if the fighting aspects were made a much tougher and actually required you to use some strategy with your path companion.
Or even require the solo player to have a few more ranks under their belt than what is recommended for the mission. As long as it didn't require an entire party of other players to push and prod you along. I like to read the pretty words. :P -
03-28-2011, 10:14 AMCatapult
My two cents:
I believe the main scenario quests have been specifically designed so that you can get through them either by fighting or finding another way, thus actually allowing people who have land or hand as their main job to partake in the mission. An example is the mission (trying to avoid spoilers here) where you can either fight the baddies or parley off with their leaders in the cave to avoid "all firey hell breaking loose".
It is the guild-based missions that can flesh out combat, gathering or crafting requirements.
I am of the opinion that the guild quests need to do more of this fleshing-out with more quests being played out through the guilds to greater contribute to the whole of the story and lore of Eorzea, which you can then only get in full detail if you explore all the guilds.
I also believe that main scenario quests should trigger at physical levels rather than one's lead class rank. If no prowess with any particular class is required for the main scenario, people shouldn't be held back from the main scenario quests that form the backbone of the story for diversifying into other classes. -
03-28-2011, 10:39 AMXiaoMaomi^^This. Without a challenge the game just feels stale to me. I want to feel like I have accomplished something after a behest/quest/NM... As of now I just do it because there is nothing else to do. If they had other more challenging content in the game, I would never visit the current content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
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03-31-2011, 02:26 AMKiote
Not taking the time to read this whole forum but I like the idea that casual players can level up as easily as hardcore players, however, that is no excuse for making all the story lines easy. Storyline quests should have a significant range in difficulty where in they can be accomplished by a solo player with significant skill and become easier with a party strategy. Considering most of the story quests are instanced it would not be hard at all to put a variable enemy level in and aloud people to team up.
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03-31-2011, 03:37 AMAlexiaKidd
Casual players are not the reason the game is overly easy
A lot of the problems come from SE putting so much focus into DoH/DoL being actual classes. Originally DoH/DoL classes were able to fight alongside DoW/DoM classes. I remember reading Miner being a THF type class on the official website and a Blacksmith wielding his hammer in battle. SE pulled all of the DoL/DoH abilities to fight though at the last min and gave them stone throw. So they then had to dumb everything down so that those classes would still be able to complete those missions.
I mean seriously are we expected to believe a R50 Weaver can overthrow the Garlean Empire in it's current state. Either give DoL/DoH their abilities to fight back or stop trying to make them proper classes and reduce them back to side classes to do on the side of your DoW/DoM classes like they are now. -
04-01-2011, 09:18 PMRushRiviera
I agree! Quests are much too easy and the story quests are so easy that they pass by like a flash! I also think we need much more story quests in the game like how it was at the lower ranks.
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04-06-2011, 05:06 AMShiyoWhy are class specific quests for DOW/DOM a joke too then? I 1 shot every mob on the 36 archer quest at level 36, and took 0 damage. The quest NPC even told me I should "bring other adventurers" lol?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd
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04-06-2011, 08:16 AMRjain
I find the quests are way too easy. In fact, I find the game in its entirety way too easy. I remember back in closed beta when I entered my first dungeon and I found out I had a map for it, then subsequently found out I had a map already for every area in the game. What happened to discovering stuff/unlocking stuff? I can't think of a whole lot in this game that you have to "unlock" at all, which completely takes away from me enjoying the game.
I want quests that are going to have me on the verge of pissing myself from their difficulty and the consequences if I fail. Not "walk to this area, kill a bug, turn in". In XI, you'd be a few hours into the game's main story and you'd already have to go up against a damn dragon and an ahriman, and you couldn't have friends beat it for you because there was a level cap. If you lost, not only do you lose a chunk of EXP but you have to walk alllllll the way back, which seemed to take about an hour.
I don't expect this game to be as extreme as XI in every regard, but I'd rather the challenge level to be pumped up significantly higher than it is now. This game in its current state makes a Franklin the Turtle game look like a challenge. -
04-06-2011, 10:27 AMNilheim
I believe quests in general (and by quests I mean sidequests) should be a lot easier than missions that advance the plot. But right now, they're way too easy and too simple. Too much hand holding.
Missions, on the other hand, should be tough. I know A LOT of people are going to disagree here, but I think FFXIV needs something as hard as CoP at some point.
Sure it was hard as hell sometimes, especially before they nerfed the fights (that was in 2007 or something iirc), but man I remember the feeling I had everytime I beat a mission. Pure joy and so much pride of taking that one step forward with your static. I built a static with 5 strangers and it took us about 3 months to do everything. By the time we were done, we were all good friends. RoZ, ToAU and WoTG can't bring you that.
But I also think CoP was badly designed in one way: it was the one path that lead you to Sea. That meant you couldn't do Limbus or fight Jailers. I believe a good way to implement missions that are as hard as CoP missions were in early FFXI would be to make them less important to the player. How? Reward the player with a very good item at the end of the final mission. Something he can wear and be proud of. But don't limit the player's access to events he might want to do with his friends/LS.
Now, just create other missions that, while not as hard, remain challenging. Missions that give you access to stuff like Sky and reward you well and give you a sense of accomplishment.
Then you have the third kind of missions: think about WoTG. WoTG was, truth be told, very easy. I did almost all of it with 2 or 3 friends and it was a breeze. But it was fun and interesting because the story was awesome. If you're gonna make easy missions and quests, at least make them entertaining.
I bet some people will feel cheated by the idea because they don't wanna go through the trouble of doing the super hard stuff just for that one item. Well I'm sorry, but who cares? If everything is handed to people on a silver platter, there's no joy to be had for actually getting shit done. If you don't wanna work hard for that one item, fine, just don't do it. Not having it won't kill you, will it?
Anyway I think this would be a good way of keeping every kind of player entertained. This is obviously just a draft. -
04-12-2011, 07:01 PMdamicanI on the contrary feel the entire game should be soloable up to endgame. I dont' like being forced to play with others if I don't want to. Just because you like partying and/or being forced to doesn't mean everyone else does. The moderate and correct way of thinking would be to simply make it harder the larger your party is and increase rewards. That way you can party if you want and reap adequate rewards, or if you're a general Richard like me and don't like partying most of the time because people are stupid in general, then you wouldn't have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbanes
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04-12-2011, 11:27 PMShiyoMMO doesn't sound like the video game genre you're looking for, perhaps you should try single player games? Why do people think like this and want to solo in MMOs? Please, go play a single player game, and leave MMO for people who actually want to play with other people.Quote:
Originally Posted by damican
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04-13-2011, 12:52 AMTamlin
There are several issues to this topic as I see it.
First of all, the quests - as mentioned - are way to easy. The only thing that makes a couple of them difficult, are the location of the quest itself.
So they should redistribute some of the monsters to better suit the paths to different leves. I am not saying that the road should be free of monsters, but it should be monsters that you are able to kill yourself at r46 with difficulty, but rather easy/easier with a party of 3 f. ex - like one tank, one DD and one healer.
That way you would also make it more logical to team up for quests.
I still remember the time spent doing the r46 main mission due to the fact that you had to sneak by several mobs that were way too high rank to be able to kill them with some difficulty. It seems like it is either too hard or too easy, but nothing inbetween.
I found that they solved this rather neatly for the local leves though, as they moved the delivery-location of several leves to better adjust to the rank of the leve.
Heck, there are even times where you are unable to complete leves in Nophica's Well due to the placement of a NM.
Another issue - if they state that it is easy due to casual players - or even for the DoL/DoH: Running for 1 1/2 hour to reach a location, as well as spending time waiting for mobs to move out of your path, you ensure that a casual player perhaps only will be doing that quest and one set of leves through one week, as they do not have time for more.
If the monsters had been adjusted, a DoL/DoH could dodge the attacks from the mobs by running in somewhat clever way, and adding the option to teleport to a specific location that is closer to the final destination, would lower the time it takes to complete the quests, which would make it a bit easier for the casual players.
A more hardcore player would be killing the mobs on the way for the challenge I would believe.
Also: adjustments to the quest based on your class would ensure that it is a bit more mobs/figthing for a DoW/DoM rather than for DoH/DoL.
There is one quests were you can choose to either fight or parley, this is a clever solution that could be implemeted elsewhere.
What about creating leves and quests that suggest a light party or a full party (based on updates that are to come the 14th of April)? I know some of the NM chain-leves do require a bigger PT, which is great in my opinion. This make players do stuff together for the fun and demand of it, not only to leve-link to get optimized SP.
yay for more challenges - and more quests in general - that will give the players some drive. At the current state, it is more or less easy quests and grinding that is on the menu.
I love the game, and think it has an awesome potential.
Well, my two cents at least. -
04-15-2011, 09:57 AMRiposte
The best way to increase difficulty is to add level caps to missions, where players are reduced to a certain level if they are above it. This allowed SE to design encounters better and it is why CoP is was the most mechanically interesting set of missions in FFXI. However people complained and they stopped adding level caps to missions and eventually removed them from the game altogether. End result is that FFXI's missions were very boring and easy outside the storyline. FFXIV took the feedback from FFXI and made more boring/easy missions.
Now adding level caps might not be a good idea, since apparently the majority hates the idea. However the majority also hated difficult missions as well(and right now we are only hearing a vocal minority). So maybe the best idea is make difficulty optional for bonus rewards or something. Optional level caps or optional level scaling for monsters. We have a similar system already in place for guidleves(though not very precise or rewarding), but the game doesn't feature a lot of tactical decisions or monsters/encounters who you have to "learn". One would need both strong encounter design and player limitations to base those designs around to make a fun game. (Well, people find mindlessly grinding fun, so fun for certain people.) -
04-15-2011, 07:14 PMKarbine
I want missions where you need the help of others to complete it. Its fine that theres some missions you can do solo but I think big fights or critical story battles should have some degree of difficulty to them and REQUIRE that you bring other to help, not just tag on a little "**2 People can help you." But why should they? You can beat it alone in 2 minutes anyway.
I am fine with story progression or cutscene intense chapters being done solo, but when it comes to R46 quest there should have been some requirement of help...