why am i getting a duty finder penalty after being kicked

??? i thought you only get a penalty if you leave a party in the duty finder???

Were you kicked by players or auto kicked from afking?
Player kicks don't have penalties tied to the as far as I know.

I got a penalty the other day from leaving a dungeon even though we were a full premade party. Maybe something is wrong with the penalty system

oh i didn't know you can get auto kicked thats weird they need to take that system out

If you will warning messages saying if you stay idle too long, you will get kicked by the system

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

I got a penalty the other day from leaving a dungeon even though we were a full premade party. Maybe something is wrong with the penalty system

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I assume you left a roulette? Leaving a roulette first will always incur a penalty, premade or not, to stop people fishing for a more favorable dungeon.

The 10 minute autokick doesn't incur a penalty.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

I assume you left a roulette? Leaving a roulette first will always incur a penalty, premade or not, to stop people fishing for a more favorable dungeon.

The 10 minute autokick doesn't incur a penalty.

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Yeah that's probly what it was. Seems pretty dumb. premade parties shouldn't have penalties for that, it's not like queuing for roulettes in a full party are helping any other players with their dungeons.

There should be a penalty for getting kicked. I am getting tired of the players acting like idiots, pulling, wiping the group etc, just to get kicked.

so which is it does the auto kick give you a penalty or not?

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Originally Posted by Tomba

There should be a penalty for getting kicked. I am getting tired of the players acting like idiots, pulling, wiping the group etc, just to get kicked.

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As much as I want to agree with you, but there is always people who abuse the kick system as well. I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty mad if I got kicked and got a penalty cause someone decided it'd be fun to abuse the vote kick system.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

oh i didn't know you can get auto kicked thats weird they need to take that system out

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To be fair, if you're being auto-kicked it's because you're not actually doing anything and are just sitting idle. That's something I'd rather keep in the game since leeching tactics are arguably the worst thing you can do besides selling gil.

so only auto kick gives you a penalty???

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Yeah that's probly what it was. Seems pretty dumb. premade parties shouldn't have penalties for that, it's not like queuing for roulettes in a full party are helping any other players with their dungeons.

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It makes complete sense. If you use roulette to fish for a dungeon you like then it's no longer roulette yet you're still reaping the roulette bonus. I suppose they could just take your roulette bonus away for the day instead.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

so only auto kick gives you a penalty???

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Auto-kick, or being the first person to leave the duty with a full group otherwise.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

oh i didn't know you can get auto kicked thats weird they need to take that system out

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ithink if ur afk more then 5min ur be auto kicked and then you get a penalty to

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

Yeah that's probly what it was. Seems pretty dumb. premade parties shouldn't have penalties for that, it's not like queuing for roulettes in a full party are helping any other players with their dungeons.

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Before the penalty was instituted, if we got a dungeon in roulette that we didn't like, we'd just leave and requeue for something else. Not having the penalty basically takes the roulette out of your roulette.

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Originally Posted by papichulo123

oh i didn't know you can get auto kicked thats weird they need to take that system out

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Um, how about no? I don't want to be stuck with even more AFK people in dungeons than I already see.

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Originally Posted by Ampheni

As much as I want to agree with you, but there is always people who abuse the kick system as well. I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty mad if I got kicked and got a penalty cause someone decided it'd be fun to abuse the vote kick system.

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There are people who abuse the legal system. Should it simply be removed?

They really should add in the 30 minute penalty for being kicked from a dungeon, sure some people will get an unjustified kick, but there are far more people who just try to get themselves kicked from a dungeon so they don't incur the penalty.

80% of the time, if you get kicked it was probably justified, so you should get a 30 minute time out for being a douchwagon.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

There are people who abuse the legal system. Should it simply be removed?

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No, but if laws don't work they should be changed. They work in this case.
There's any number of legitimate reasons you'd need to votekick someone to where you wouldn't want to stick them with a penalty, or where they wouldn't deserve one.
For example, needing to take an extended AFK that would inconvenience the party but wouldn't equal the 30 minute penalty, or disconnecting due to a modem reset, brief outage, or the like.
You don't get jail time for a speeding ticket, y'know.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

80% of the time, if you get kicked it was probably justified, so you should get a 30 minute time out for being a douchwagon.

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Since AFK and offline count as "justified," but can be beyond the kick-ees control, a 30 minute penalty is a terrible idea. Those two choices are all the go-to options for people who request to be kicked because, say, they're being called for a raid and CAN'T eat the 30 minute penalty.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Since AFK and offline count as "justified," but can be beyond the kick-ees control, a 30 minute penalty is a terrible idea. Those two choices are all the go-to options for people who request to be kicked because, say, they're being called for a raid and CAN'T eat the 30 minute penalty.

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I think AFK definitely counts as justified and you should get a 30 minute penalty. We're not talking you go AFK for a minute here and if you need to take an extended AFK then fine that will eat into your penalty time anyway, stuff happens and occasionally people might get penalized for things a little more than they should, but overall it would be better for the majority of circumstances. Also same goes for offline, if you're gone for a couple of minutes most people wont kick. In most of the parties I've ever been in if someone goes afk for a little while and says so beforehand then it's fine I can wait, if someone goes offline I'll give em a little while to come back, D/C's happen.

Requesting to be kicked because you have to go to raid is still a crappy thing to do, what if you're the tank, and that group then spends 30 minutes looking for another tank to join because you signed up for a dungeon 15 minutes before raid time, or because someone asked you to do something better after you went in and you now think those other 3 guys in the group should suffer the wait because you want to go raid instead and not have to wait around for the penalty to wear off. You're saying THEY should have to wait around for the group to re-fill because YOU have to leave and because YOU don't want to have to wait for the penalty? Sound logic right there.

Course if we are really getting into it we can make an argument for a 15 minute penalty for being kicked over a 30 minute penalty for leaving. I personally still think something should be there.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

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1) There are numerous circumstances that warrant an AFK or offline status that is just SLIGHTLY longer than the time it would take people to kick. It's not something that should be punished. Especially since some people will react to ANY AFK with a kick. You do not want to give these trolls ammo, ever.

2) There are circumstances where a dungeon or trial goes on longer than it ostensibly should. If you did your trial roulette for a quick 15 minute run before a raid, but somehow got saddled with a pre-made learning party that takes nearly the full time, why should you be penalized for needing to leave for a prior engagement? Should your raid group and/or friends have to wait around because 3-7 other people couldn't get their act together?

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Originally Posted by kyuven

1) There are numerous circumstances that warrant an AFK or offline status that is just SLIGHTLY longer than the time it would take people to kick. It's not something that should be punished. Especially since some people will react to ANY AFK with a kick. You do not want to give these trolls ammo, ever.

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As I said in my previous post, the majority of times, the penalty is justified, you will NEVER find a system that works 100% of the time and that isn't abused but if the system is overall a benefit, they should implement it. The odd occasions it fails is just something people have to live with. The greater good I guess they call it.

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2) There are circumstances where a dungeon or trial goes on longer than it ostensibly should. If you did your trial roulette for a quick 15 minute run before a raid, but somehow got saddled with a pre-made learning party that takes nearly the full time, why should you be penalized for needing to leave for a prior engagement? Should your raid group and/or friends have to wait around because 3-7 other people couldn't get their act together?

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Yes, yes they actually should. Those roulette's are FOR helping people fill up parties. Whether its for first time clears or whatever that is what the bonus is for. If you sign up for a roulette that has 60 minute time limits on dungeons, then that's what you signed up for. This is exactly what the roulette is for. Not for people to go in, see that they can't get their quick bonus and dip out.

If you don't like that, then don't use the roulette, personally I can't remember the last time I did one, I just farm coil to cap, because I don't want to be stuck in those dungeons and I made the choice not to join, but if I do join one then I'm committing myself to a DF so I always expect the worse, then at least I can be pleasantly surprised if it's a nice smooth run.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

There are people who abuse the legal system. Should it simply be removed?

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Criminals are just going to break the new law, therefore we shouldn't bother making it. (Actual NRA argument against any gun control legislation)

That and the whole constitution thing. But that is not the point of this thread.

I prefer the time when my party could requeue for the dungeon we wanted in a DR. Me queueing solo helps other people get in their party faster but me with my own people doesn't help anyone else. By leaving, I'm not hurting or inconveniencing anyone else so why should I be punished for it? Who cares if we get the dungeon we want? It's not hurting anyone the same way it wasn't helping anyone to force us to stay in it.

And at the very least leaving a dr that was a premade shouldn't give the person a penalty for the entire duty finder, maybe just that dr but for everything? That's not even fair. That's punishing us for trying to use one of the benefits of making a premade in the first place. Like I go in, leave and don't inconvenience anyone. I'm not leaving 3-7 other people waiting for a replacement or anything wrong but now I can't do anything for 30 minutes??

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Originally Posted by Jamein

Yes, yes they actually should. Those roulette's are FOR helping people fill up parties. Whether its for first time clears or whatever that is what the bonus is for. If you sign up for a roulette that has 60 minute time limits on dungeons, then that's what you signed up for. This is exactly what the roulette is for. Not for people to go in, see that they can't get their quick bonus and dip out.

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There's a difference between "quick" and "this just took 45 minutes and we're not making any progress."

Let's say I have 30 minutes before my raid, and I join a trial roulette to fill that time because, statistically, no trial lasts longer than 30 minutes (pre-nerf SoF was an exception and part of why they nerfed it in the first place)
It's REASONABLE to expect a group to either complete the run in 30 minutes, or figure out that they're just not going to and vote abandon. But a group trying to learn the fight doesn't figure it out, and I need to leave. *I've* figured out that they can't make the cut, but they want to keep trying. That's fine! they can totally keep trying! But *I* can't.
At this juncture, WITHOUT taking vote dismiss into account, I have two unattractive options:
1) Leave and take a penalty, inconveniencing the group I left because they need to find a replacement, myself because I can't get into duties for 30 minutes, and my raid group because they're a man down for 30 minutes.
2) Keep up the futility and keep trying for the next 30 minutes, STILL inconveniencing myself and my raid group, and not doing anyone any favors.
In this instance, a penalty-less votekick is the best solution for everyone involved. I gave them 30 minutes of my time. I sat with them and died over and over as they learned their fight. Now I have another commitment to get to. Why should I suffer for TRYING to be nice to these learners? ESPECIALLY if I let them know ahead of time that this situation may arise? With a votekick penalty, it would behoove me in this situation to ditch them after a single failed pull so i can still make my raid. How does this help anyone?
And this is just one example.
There is a greater benefit to leaving the system as-is than instituting a penalty that doesn't need to exist.
What SHOULD happen, however, is instead of giving a penalty, "blacklisting" the person from that particular group instance, to keep people from exiting and re-entering, which IS a problem.

Oh, and another one, but this one actually argues against my suggestion for being able to rejoin instances you're kicked from: Role changes. In coils for example, you often need a particular role to perform a specific job. Let's say i queue as SCH and end up in a group with another SCH. It would benefit the group if I switched to WHM, wouldn't it? Well, if they kick me, I switch and requeue in-progress, it'll likely match me to that group and we'll have the diversity we want. Everyone wins.

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Originally Posted by Cazamar

That and the whole constitution thing. But that is not the point of this thread.

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Literal reading of the constitution says the government can't stop me from mounting M249s and grenade launchers on the front of my Saab, because "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Any mass murderer that skipped out on an insanity plea should be allowed to own NBC weapons because, you know, the Constitution.

”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" is the warcry of the anarchist that refuses to accept civilized society.

getting kicked should have a penalty, because the same player can rejoin the EXACT SAME GROUP THEY WERE JUST KICKED FROM.

There should be a penalty revolving people getting vote kicked with a system that the penalty only works after getting kicked like x times.. Should work like duty status confirmation that will reset in a day.. There is nothing wrong getting kicked once or twice in a single day, but there is something wrong when someone got kicked more than 3-5 times in a single day, for whatever reasons it may be..

More and more players have been asking people to kick them rather just simply leave and taking a penalty like a respectable players..

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Originally Posted by kyuven

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I'm not saying it's unreasonable to expect a group to clear a trial in under 10 minutes, most are but my point is you are basing this on that the roulette system is there for your bonus tomes as a daily boost to your poetics/solds. It's not. The entire thing was designed and implemented for people to go in and get a bonus for helping others out, from the low levels to the trials, the only one I will argue that isn't for that is the expert roulette. That one to me is designed purely for tomestone bonus' as its 3 higher ilvl dungeons but we can argue that it's still there for the same reason.

My point being, you sign up in a roulette, knowing that you're signing up to help out a bunch of random people in a random trial/dungeon that needs players to fill it up. Which means, you are signing up for the full 60 minute duration, UNLESS the majority of that group agrees to vote abandon. I've ended up in runs of castro in main scenario before that just took forever because like 6/8 people were brand new, but it happens, I've also had runs where everyone knew what to do and it was done as fast as possible. This is what duty finder is. You get the good and the bad. Its the reason I prefer to cap in coils rather than in roulettes.

So while I fully appreciate that it's a bit of a kick in the teeth, this is what you are signing up for in a roulette, not for your bonus to complete it, but for your bonus for HELPING out. So leaving before that timer is up, or before the party agrees to vote abandon should result in a penalty.

Still I go back to my original point, this is something that rarely happens most trials are done quickly, most dungeons are too, what happens more often is people trying to get kicked so they can get out of a crappy run without a penalty. So again, a system that gives an overall benefit is worth implementing, the occasional good person might get caught up in it and have to take a 30 minute penalty, but we're not telling them to go to prison for 50 years here, it'll happen once in a while and it will suck, but it will fix more issues than it causes.