Never thought I would see dps queues faster then healer.

I guess FF 14 is getting a large healing boon. My queue is steadily rising nightly from 4 minutes to 12-17 minutes now as a healer. My brother got a dps queue in about 12 minutes and beat me last two times. Boggle.

I've noticed my queues have been talking a little longer than usual lately. Like 8 minutes or so to get in a "less than 5 minutes" Expert Roulette. But nothing too major. And I have no idea what the DPS queues are like for Post-50 content.

Amusingly, I'd dare say that my melee DPS queues tend to be at least as quick as queuing up as a Healer, usually. Ranged DPS tends to take a fair bit longer.

Depending on time of day, higher level dungeons are raids can be instant, or pop in a few minutes. Sometimes it can go up to 10+ minutes, but that usually happens if I'm doing a trial like the Dragon's Neck, where most people would be doing it for the related quest line alone.

My DRG has been stuck with 34min queues for things like CT and Hard Roulette. Usually faster (15-20) for Expert. Healer is usually 10min or less. This is Faerie server for me.

I've not had many problems with quick pops for healing. Maybe that's because it's late enough at night... Or maybe it's a server thing.

Game is boring right now, there's nothing to do. The players who are still around are leveling up classes they haven't before or just crafting.
Once the xpac goes live this will go away

Well healing on ff 14 is easier then most mmo's. You have a highly predictable rotation in raids to pre prep your spells for an incoming heal or absorb quickly after the boss effect takes off. Tank/dps is harder on here then healing. Difference between a bad healer and a good healer is the dps the healer pushes. Sadly healing needs to be more dynamic and a mix of reactive and proactive. Not just 90% proactive and resume dps.

2 days ago I got insta queue 5 times in a row as a DPS... kinda confused myself...

Its because healing is the easiest job right now. Even if you suck at learning patterns when to pre heal when you see a 3 second cast go off from most devastating abilities in the game it gives you more then ample time to prepare. You know when to prepare for Terra Flare. I am not a big fan of the other mmo we shall not discuss but scaling for healers is a bit ridiculous right now. The order of gearing priority from the first raids in ff 14 was dps/tanks/healers. Healing needs to be toned down or made more sporatic/dynamic then inc big heal prep 5 seconds from now then resume dps while a tad bit of damage is quickly patched up.

If SE wants to make healing hard like they are adding more combos to dps they need to require you to pre prep a buff that boosts your heal to 300 potency and combo off heals over whack a mole snore fest.

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Originally Posted by spelley

My DRG has been stuck with 34min queues for things like CT and Hard Roulette. Usually faster (15-20) for Expert. Healer is usually 10min or less. This is Faerie server for me.

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Also on Faerie, this is exactly what it's like for me between NIN and WHM. Rarely go over 10 minutes as WHM, but NIN can go for ages.

It's not that it's the easiest role. There is a large portion of the playerbase currently working on healers and tanks to prepare for 3.0.

Likewise, last night I queued for Trial roulette as a WAR and it showed a 5m wait. I switched to MNK and got an instant pop. There's just a huge influx of healers and tanks right in (and limited party space for each since they only occupy 1-2 slots).

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Originally Posted by Velox

It's not that it's the easiest role. There is a large portion of the playerbase currently working on healers and tanks to prepare for 3.0.

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This was my point in my earlier post. A lot of players have dropped off, content hasn't been updated in months, SE is prepping for the xpac...just normal MMO stuff right before the xpac hits. The players who are left might be leveling up classes they haven't played, or there's players who left for awhile and just came back.
As for healing being easy...I do agree with that as well. A problem WoW had with WotLK and MoP. Maybe we'll see the healing scale back a bit in the xpac, although I doubt it.

In terms of difficulty, they already mentioned that healer dps would be considered when balancing the dps checks in alexander savage, so it might be more challenging in the future. This might also be the reason why whm got so many new ways to dps (although granted most groups will likely just wait till they are overgeared and the checks can be met without healer dps).

Try to que as dps right now, some are instant.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

In terms of difficulty, they already mentioned that healer dps would be considered when balancing the dps checks in alexander savage, so it might be more challenging in the future. This might also be the reason why whm got so many new ways to dps (although granted most groups will likely just wait till they are overgeared and the checks can be met without healer dps).

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Eh...I really don't like the whole "healers need to dps thing" I do it since I want to optimize my class but it hasn't been something I ever really enjoyed. Disappointed to hear that they commented on implementing this more =/

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Originally Posted by xxhieixx

Eh...I really don't like the whole "healers need to dps thing" I do it since I want to optimize my class but it hasn't been something I ever really enjoyed. Disappointed to hear that they commented on implementing this more =/

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Nowhere has that been said. Nobody yet knows what the new skills are, just speculation based on what they've seen. Nobody knows how they will yet be used in the dungeons.

If it's anything like at ARR release, the healers DPS has never mattered if the DPS were at or above the levelsync. The complaints back THEN were how hard Amdapor Keep and Wanderers Place were too hard unless you had maxed out on darklight gear (with is ilevel 70), and people were actually gear-checking (this was before the ilevel requirements) to kick people who weren't wearing all darklight.

It's not unreasonable to think that they may have made the dungeon difficulty harder because players are using healers to raise the party DPS up when the gear minimizes damage taken. So what that means is that they could make everything hit harder even with BiS gear, or make the monsters react differently to healers DPS.

In other news...

Healer Queues were nearly instant today.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Snip.

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Actually they were talking about adding it into raids, healer dps that is. They also are doing a lot to have healer's basicly auto heal so they can dps and if Pld's new move, where you heal them and everyone around gets a shield, is short on it's cool down, then you have that on pld too to further push for healers to DPS. While it's not something that will be "bare min" right now, it would appear they are heavily pushing for it.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Actually they were talking about adding it into raids, healer dps that is. They also are doing a lot to have healer's basicly auto heal so they can dps and if Pld's new move, where you heal them and everyone around gets a shield, is short on it's cool down, then you have that on pld too to further push for healers to DPS. While it's not something that will be "bare min" right now, it would appear they are heavily pushing for it.

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Actually they said the opposite. They said healer dps will be needed to meet dps checks when trying to clear in lower than intended item level, just like FCoB, but they are NOT adding healer dps in to their dps calculations.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

In terms of difficulty, they already mentioned that healer dps would be considered when balancing the dps checks in alexander savage, so it might be more challenging in the future. This might also be the reason why whm got so many new ways to dps (although granted most groups will likely just wait till they are overgeared and the checks can be met without healer dps).

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They have said exactly NOT that. http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...-Event-5-19%29
DPS calculation includes dps and tanks at an intended ilvl. If you are clearing below that ilvl in the vein of world-first, your healers are probably going to have to dps then. But the encounters are NOT balanced on that.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Well healing on ff 14 is easier then most mmo's. You have a highly predictable rotation in raids to pre prep your spells for an incoming heal or absorb quickly after the boss effect takes off. Tank/dps is harder on here then healing.

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*looking at your poetic and deamon gear*

What do you mean with raid?

All classes are balanced with the harder content in mind. For scholar Yoshida already excused, that they will not be very different than now outside of Alexander hard. So its pretty clear, that the classes are OP in every content else. all classes. By design.

With some exceptions, I've tanked and DPSed nearly every content, besinde my mainjob.

No. Tanking and DPSing is not harder than healing.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

*looking at your poetic and deamon gear*
No. Tanking and DPSing is not harder than healing.

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I'm a main SCH and very used to healing T13, even with horrible pugs, STR tank heroes, 8500HP MT paladins, OT WARs that do not ever use defiance (not even on shared akh morns or the last pain where you need to heal them while dodging the megaflare dive), deeps that take extra ticks of lava damage in earthshakers. The amount of bs I've been through to master SCH there to carry even the worst PUG groups is brutal. Recently, I tried T13 as MT, and almost fell asleep on the keyboard.

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Originally Posted by xxhieixx

Eh...I really don't like the whole "healers need to dps thing" I do it since I want to optimize my class but it hasn't been something I ever really enjoyed. Disappointed to hear that they commented on implementing this more =/

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Do you need to learn how to DPS as healer to optimize your class? Yes.

Are DPS clear minimums currently set with the assumption of healer DPS? No.

To be honest, I find the DPS role to more difficult in the raids usually.

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

They have said exactly NOT that. http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...-Event-5-19%29
DPS calculation includes dps and tanks at an intended ilvl. If you are clearing below that ilvl in the vein of world-first, your healers are probably going to have to dps then. But the encounters are NOT balanced on that.

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The post you are quoting was written prior to the release of that link.
Earlier translations were actually directly contradicting this bit:

"They increased the offensive power of the WHM, not because they want them to be real DPS but because they first didn't expect the players to have the healers DPS in coil, they were surprised to see the top parties do that and they changed their plan. When they do the new raid they now take healer dps into consideration, that will be a major difference between alexander normal and hard, in the normal mode dps check they don't take into account the healers' damages."

So there are conflicting informations about how they handle healer dps in heavensward. I am more inclined to believe the more recent link you posted though.

Lol. You are saying that whack a mole watch hp is harder then optimal rotations and tanking? Minus maybe bard and black mage dps is way harder then healing. Most statics beat mechanics based on gearing tanks and dps. Healers can perform better in lesser gear then dps and tanks.

Healing is actually the easiest role in the game. As you said you was in a snore fest tanking during your last raid run but that is only because you are 6+ months into master and overgearing the raid by now but healing is extremely newbie friendly. You do not have to master rotations and proper timing of when to try to push for that extra combo in flank or back positions as a monk. All you really have to do is watch hp via whack a mole mechanics and just make the boss a focus and know when to prep for scripted patterns. Only thing even partially scary to worry about as a healer is Bahamut prime Akh Morn tearing your raid apart.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

Lol. You are saying that whack a mole watch hp is harder then optimal rotations and tanking? Minus maybe bard and black mage dps is way harder then healing. Most statics beat mechanics based on gearing tanks and dps. Healers can perform better in lesser gear then dps and tanks.

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Good healers don't play whack-a-mole; or rather, they know in advance which moles will need whacking and are pulling double duty as DPS while also maintaining awareness of everyone else's performance and mistakes.

If you break down each role in simplistic terms, they all sound mind-numbingly easy (DPS rotations come down to "if A, then B except when X occurs, then C, etc. etc.". Frankly, all content in the game can become this way once you've sufficiently drilled the choreography.

As for tanks, most tanks I play with find the role rather boring except when content is relatively new to them. I think the only turn during which my main Coil group's tanks are actually close to awake is T12 since they need to stop napping long enough to pass brands once in a while and stand in the fountain.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

Lol. You are saying that whack a mole watch hp is harder then optimal rotations and tanking? Minus maybe bard and black mage dps is way harder then healing. Most statics beat mechanics based on gearing tanks and dps. Healers can perform better in lesser gear then dps and tanks.

Healing is actually the easiest role in the game. As you said you was in a snore fest tanking during your last raid run but that is only because you are 6+ months into master and overgearing the raid by now but healing is extremely newbie friendly. You do not have to master rotations and proper timing of when to try to push for that extra combo in flank or back positions as a monk. All you really have to do is watch hp via whack a mole mechanics and just make the boss a focus and know when to prep for scripted patterns. Only thing even partially scary to worry about as a healer is Bahamut prime Akh Morn tearing your raid apart.

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Oh wow, someone doesnt raid heal here does he? Most progression based statics beat content due incredibly powerful healers being able to heal through mechanics that the party should not be able to survive. Tanking requires cooldown rotation with positioning, dps requires rotation and mechanical movement, healing requires rotation based on bosses moves, the ability to react to others mistakes, the ability to also add to the dps (which during progression raiding is not adequate due to undergeared dps), the ability to mitigate damage as well as heal, with mitigation being so important in progression since people are undergeared. Also, everything else that the other classes have to deal with, the healers have to deal with 2 fold: once for themselves, once for the others. If you seem to think tanking and dps is the hardest thing to do in progression based raiding, then you certainly have never been in a raid before at this level, and have never played a healer before.

Also, your experience seems to come from when content has been nerfed into the ground, which is funny.

Try healing t13, which you seem to think is easy, at i120, no echo.

Also your description of whack a mole style play on a healer is hilarious, good healers certainly do not do this. If this is what you do, then i can see a problem here.

When you cannot properly counter argue fall back on character assassination. Works every time. Healing is the easiest role in the game. Regardless of how you define whack a mole healing all you are doing is watching a hp bar go down and use a few basic buttons that make 1 to multiple bars go back up. You might time it to be .5 seconds after an enemy aoe fires off but it is still whack a mole mechanics that hail from the earliest days of online gaming.. Healing has not evolved any like other roles cept maybe tanking has.

@Gladous and Vlady

There's only one way you guys will be able to prove "healing is easy"

Go solo heal T13 in a learning from beginning party without echo and try to beat it within 3-4 hours.

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

????.

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Tanking doesn't change, at all, with echo or without echo. Stop trolling. Flatten? CDs. Adds? Grab them. Megaflare dive? Lol wut's that, *pops tempered will*. The only threatening thing as a healer are akh morns? Lol. Akh morns are not even healed buddy.

You can virus the first one and offheal it with a couple physicks/cures, watch how they cheat the second one with holmgang + cover, laugh again at the third one with a precasted Whispering Dawn (medica II) + Fey Covenant, Virus and a couple heals...laugh even more at the fourth one on a hallowed PLD, and the fifth one? Who even gets there lol. You can even deal with Akh Morns with a WHM spamming cure III on both tanks. Akh morns are the easiest thing to deal as a healer, so you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

@Gladous and Vlady

There's only one way you guys will be able to prove "healing is easy"

Go solo heal T13 in a learning from beginning party without echo and try to beat it within 3-4 hours.

Have fun.

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I was ignored ; ;

But anyway, pretty absurd statement. The irony is that it seems to suggest that healing this the normal way is too easy for a challenge.

Healing every single mechanic with people on weakness or even brink of death? DPSing during short amounts of downtime? MT taking a splash of megaflare damage from the OT on P3 and getting tempest winged 2 seconds later? Deeps taking extra lava ticks from earthshaker? Megaflare + Turret + Rage of Bahamut? Failed Turret, offheal the DOT to everyone? (<-completely doable I'm tired of doing this and carry bad teams), a WAR that tanks the last pain without defiance, forcing you to heal a tank that goes from 8k HP to 2k in a second in the middle of a megaflare dive? Deeps forcing P2's gigaflare right after Rage of Bahamut with everyone being at around 30% health and a shadow full hp flying around? (<- I've too anticipated this and saved the day, possible but tricky).

These and a lot more are the things that are challenging, not akh morns.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

I was ignored ; ;

But anyway, pretty absurd statement. The irony is that it seems to suggest that healing this the normal way is too easy for a challenge.

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Wasn't ignoring xD I can understand the challenges of DPSing a raid as I secondary BLM/DRG for raids. DPSing as a whole is very easy to do (actually, doing anything in this game outside of a raid environment is very easy). DPSing WELL in a raid environment is a completely different ball game.

The point I was trying to make was the fact that if healing was as easy these two claim it to be, they both should be able to walk into T13, blind, as a healer (don't care which), and carry an entire progression party to victory within 3-4 hours. It is an absurdity to expect that, but that's the implication I got with comments like "whack-a-mole healing" that healing is so easy you can do any aspect of it while sleeping.

Raiding in XIV as either Tank, DPS, or Healer is challenging in different aspects for any progression group and shouldn't be taken lightly as one simple error from any single person can cause a wipe.

Full disclosure, I don't raid but....

The "I Want to Minimize What They Do" Explanation
Healing: "Healing is so easy, you just push a few buttons, make bars go up, pop some cooldowns and know the fight."
Tanking: "Tanking is so easy, you just push a few buttons to keep aggro, keep your bar from going, pop some cooldowns and know the fight."
DPS: "DPSing is so easy, you justpush a few buttons in order, make a bar go down, pop some cooldowns and know the fight."

The "Actually Being Fair" Explanation
Healing: "Healing is about knowing proper timing, accurately gauging and predicting damage intact, knowing when to DPS and knowing what cooldowns to save for when. They keep everyone going and can mitigate mistakes."
Tanking: "Tanking requires extensive knowledge of the dungeon/raid/instance, gauge and prioritizes target, ensuring cooldowns are available for specific bursts/mechanics and generally running the party (in general). They set the parameters."
DPS: "DPS need to maintain complex rotations while being very mobile, often are in charge of dealing with common mechanics and are especially relied upon for pushing enrage timers. They set the pace."

Ask a main healer to go in T13 and DPS. Absolutely no problem. Ask a DPS to go in and main heal.

Lol. I've seen this myself. A sea of corpses.

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Originally Posted by spelley

Full disclosure, I don't raid but....

The "I Want to Minimize What They Do" Explanation
Healing: "Healing is so easy, you just push a few buttons, make bars go up, pop some cooldowns and know the fight."
Tanking: "Tanking is so easy, you just push a few buttons to keep aggro, keep your bar from going, pop some cooldowns and know the fight."
DPS: "DPSing is so easy, you justpush a few buttons in order, make a bar go down, pop some cooldowns and know the fight."

The "Actually Being Fair" Explanation
Healing: "Healing is about knowing proper timing, accurately gauging and predicting damage intact, knowing when to DPS and knowing what cooldowns to save for when. They keep everyone going and can mitigate mistakes."
Tanking: "Tanking requires extensive knowledge of the dungeon/raid/instance, gauge and prioritizes target, ensuring cooldowns are available for specific bursts/mechanics and generally running the party (in general). They set the parameters."
DPS: "DPS need to maintain complex rotations while being very mobile, often are in charge of dealing with common mechanics and are especially relied upon for pushing enrage timers. They set the pace."

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*Gives you a cookie* I like this post.

Never said that healing turn 13 was easy. I agree bard and black mage is easier then healing but after bard adn black mage healing is the easiest thing to do in the game. If newbies want to pick up a job easy then I would go with a healer because they are easier to play then a dragoon/monk/summoner all dps jobs minus bard and black mage. And even mastering black mage is hard.

Healing if you cannot even grasp the basics people die which I know newbies who could pick up a controller and learn to heal as well as the elite of elites because healing is just mechanically the easiest thing to do in this game. Whack a mole is still whack a mole even if you time your heals to land .5 seconds after a massive aoe fires off. The difference between a good healer and mediocre healer is actually how much dps a healer can put out vs one that just heals. Being able to dps and provide healing can be a challenge but overall being a healer is easier in ff 14 then a high end dps and tank.

Healing optimally (far from just spamming cures/physicks + medicas/succors), as you've well said, means dpsing too. Do you think however, you can DPS whenever you want? Nope, you must know the boss like the palm of your hand, you must know every single safe downtime where the boss autoattacks or does nothing dangerous that could potentially kill your party. For instance, in order to be optimal as a healer in T13, you must 100% know that in P1 after megaflare, bahamut does flatten, after flatten, bahamut does triple flare breath, and after that, there's a 7-9 second downtime where you can go to cleric fast and add in 3-4 dots and shadow flare before it starts channeling earthshaker. Do you honestly think you have to know all this bs as a DPS? No you don't. You can even ignore half of its mechanics as a DPS while you keep mashing your already automated rotations.


Flatten? Akh Morn? Gigaflare? You don't even need to know what the hell they do or when they come. Megaflare + Rage of Bahamut? (exactly the same as a normal mega for a DPS), Megaflare + Tempest Wing (exactly the same as a normal mega for a DPS), Earthshaker + Tempest Wing + Flare Breath? (exactly the same as a normal earthshaker for a DPS).

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Originally Posted by Vlady

When you cannot properly counter argue fall back on character assassination. Works every time. Healing is the easiest role in the game. Regardless of how you define whack a mole healing all you are doing is watching a hp bar go down and use a few basic buttons that make 1 to multiple bars go back up. You might time it to be .5 seconds after an enemy aoe fires off but it is still whack a mole mechanics that hail from the earliest days of online gaming.. Healing has not evolved any like other roles cept maybe tanking has.

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And the one appears who has no valid way to argue apart from accusing people of character assassination. Deja vu here, considering this happened exactly the same last time i replied to the same person. Coincidence, i think not. Healing certainly is not whack a mole as you describe it. Bad healing is. Good healing is precisely timed, which i do not think anyone can call whack a mole. This kind of reductive argument really holds no ground. Its like saying a tank has to stand and get hit in the face and a dps just has to hit and enemy and nothing more. This here is reductive arguing, and really hold no merit at all. Now if you want to try and take the moral high ground, and accuse other yet again of character assassination, then go ahead. However, what you may want to do is engage with the argument and come up with something credible as a response.