can we get separate glamours for each job

i would like my warrior and paladin to have separate glamours please

Yoshida recently responded to this same question during the "Hear me out Yoshi-P" event at Niconico Chokaigi 2015. Here is the response that he provided during the event:

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This isn't impossible; however, in order to make this happen it will require additional space for saving character data. So instead of creating additional space specifically to be used for glamours, we would like to prioritize increasing the size of the Armoury Chest which uses the same space for saving character data. Equipment data is checked on the server side, and as such we can't simply store the information on the client side. This request will require more data to be transferred back and forth, so if we're going to increase the amount of data stored on the server, I believe the better option is to increase the size of the Armoury Chest first.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Quotes and stuff

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Wow, so there's no hope for a decent glamour/cosmetics system? This is terrible. Square gives us multiple job options and then turns around and says you can't glamour your job-specific gear if you wanna play multiple jobs. Incredible...

Edit: Yoshi's commentary doesn't even answer the question he was asked though, not to be hating, but way to avoid the subject :/

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

Wow, so there's no hope for a decent glamour/cosmetics system? This is terrible. Square gives us multiple job options and then turns around and says you can't glamour your job-specific gear if you wanna play multiple jobs. Incredible...

Edit: Yoshi's commentary doesn't even answer the question he was asked though, not to be hating, but way to avoid the subject :/

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He said he rather expande the armory chest first and later see how to expand the glamour space. I think you are the one that dont understand

I would much prefer the extra armory space anyways. Having gear for every job on my character has clogged me up. (Specifically when it comes to weapons, since the crafting tools are in the same tab) I think I only have 3-4 slots left on the weapon tab.

The problem is the glamour system itself, though. There are better ways to do it that allow for this kind of flexibility without having to transmit more data.

ok increase armoury space awesome thank you grekumah

I also agree that yoshi-p seems to be missing the big picture here. Yes more armory space is great, but that's not really the problem. The problem is we have to keep gear for glamour in our inventory in the first place. If we could just get it once and have the appearance unlocked for glamour use forever, and then throw away the item, it would free up a lot of space in our inventories.

Also there's the issue of gear sets being shared across multiple jobs. For example as OP stated, Warrior and Paladin both share the same armor sets in a lot of cases, so I can't glamour over the armor I'm using for stats without making both jobs look the same. This is especially bad for crafting classes as they all have unique armor sets that look great, but if you want the convenience of using the gear set that all crafters can wear, then you can't glamour your class specific set on it because only one class would be able to wear it. We need to be able to glamour multiple appearances onto a single piece of gear and have that appearance be tied to the job you are when you wear that piece of gear. I think a good solution would be to have an entirely separate gear tab on the character window where you can equip items for appearance purposes only and have both of these gear tabs be saved to a single gear set.

Again, adding more armory space is great, but it really does nothing to solve the real issues.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

I also agree that yoshi-p seems to be missing the big picture here. Yes more armory space is great, but that's not really the problem. The problem is we have to keep gear for glamour in our inventory in the first place. If we could just get it once and have the appearance unlocked for glamour use forever, and then throw away the item, it would free up a lot of space in our inventories.

Again, adding more armory space is great, but it really does nothing to solve the real issues.

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So much this~ I feel like a lot of data etc would be freed up on the server if there was some sort of glamour catalog of some kind. Could even have us have to "Use" the item and not be able to wear it anymore. We can use it till the stats are obsolete or whatever. It wouldn't work for like say, Artifact gear, or relics, because we can only get one of those, but for pieces that we can get over and over, it would be a good sink.

I think DCUO does that, where if you collect an item, it gives you a "style" to choose from and you can just switch between the ones you like or lock specific pieces.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

The problem is we have to keep gear for glamour in our inventory in the first place.

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While I would love a glamour book to use things we've glamoured again, what you state here simply isn't true.

Well at least they are doing something but yeah idk would having a new glamour system stress the character data or sever data whatever?

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

The problem is the glamour system itself, though. There are better ways to do it that allow for this kind of flexibility without having to transmit more data.

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Since you think you know so much, please kindly elaborate the "ways" that don't transmit more data.

Yeah that doesn't help at all. Not the issue we have here at least. With yoshida's solution, I will be able to craft a full set of artisan gear for each of my crafters and full meld them all just to glamour a different look for each crafting class. And that's the solution because we will have more armoury space?

The issue is with glamours not the armoury chest space.
Though don't get me wrong, that is also a welcome upgrade

This is simply about priorities...
They're prioritizing adding more armoury chest space over glamour space.
And armoury chest space is far more needed to expand.

Yes, it sucks... But they didn't close the door to glamour improvements either.

Is SE on a 100GB/month data plan or some such? Seriously, I don't think I've ever heard devs of other games being this much concerned with data transfers, citing it this often, especially in case of an online only game. I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. From all we've heard, data storage on the servers is already a huge strain as well. Go on increasing it, it will be even more of a problem (same thing with the housing wards btw). And is it seriously not obvious that if we're given more inventory space (armoury chest or whichever part of it), we'll only be hoarding more stuff with us, requiring even more data to be transferred?

It makes me sad that, again from what we know, they aren't even considering ways to lessen the load instead of giving us more in a way that's just bloating the system, straining it more than it already is. :/

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

It makes me sad that, again from what we know, they aren't even considering ways to lessen the load instead of giving us more in a way that's just bloating the system, straining it more than it already is. :/

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They kinda did by making one armor set used on multiple jobs and classes. The problem is they haven't given us a way to like how it looks on all those classes

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

They kinda did by making one armor set used on multiple jobs and classes.

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I thought that was to lighten the load on the design team. :|

Yoshi's response actually makes a lot of sense. Those of you who think he dodged the question need to read into it more before leaping to those conclusions.

Think about it this way. If a single piece of armor could have multiple glamors for each job that uses it, then any one piece might have up to 24 different glamors on it (including the upcoming new jobs). That's a significant amount of additional information needed per item. Yes, I realize that in practice many gears are locked to specific classes or jobs, but there are plenty that aren't and if they added this system it needs to be flexible enough to accommodate both scenarios.

That means your client is not only downloading the information for the gear itself, but also 23 additional glamors in addition. I don't think many people realize just how much of a strain that could be on the servers, never mind the additional space required for the many hundreds of equipment pieces there are.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

That means your client is not only downloading the information for the gear itself, but also 23 additional glamors in addition. I don't think many people realize just how much of a strain that could be on the servers, never mind the additional space required for the many hundreds of equipment pieces there are.

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True, this is an important fact to remember: In a digital database, an "empty" slot contains the exact same amount of data as a slot with something in it. Every time you add a slot it increases the amount of item data on every item.

One thing to consider, though it's not necessarily a bright side, is that in the future, top-of-the-line gear might gravitate toward job specific. Right now, best-in-slot gear is mostly multiclass - there's one set for tanks, one set for healers, etc. That may not be true in the future. Given that SE is apparently moving toward a "token" system for the Alexander drops, this seems more likely than ever - the biggest reason for a token system would be if there's such a wide variety of items that it's unreasonable to expect a player to grind until their drop happens to randomly appear.

This would, at least temporarily, solve the same glamour for two different classes problem, since two different classes couldn't wear the same BiS gear.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

True, this is an important fact to remember: In a digital database, an "empty" slot contains the exact same amount of data as a slot with something in it. Every time you add a slot it increases the amount of item data on every item.

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This is a valid point - but it's something SE could have avoided by not tying glamour to specific items in the first place. Players should have been allowed to glamour their equipment slots, rather than specific pieces of gear. Give each player, say, a hundred glamour templates that they can store (each glamour template representing a full set of armor, weapon, and accessories) and don't bother storing any glamour information on specific pieces of equipment. That would allow for several "looks" for each class. This could run into issues with gear restrictions (what if a player tries to apply a heavy armor template to a mage job?) - but honestly, those restrictions are silly and inconsistent anyway, and should just be done away with.

To be fair, at least he said that it wasn't impossible. They just obviously have other priorities, when it comes to adding/fixing features that will potentially increase the character data. Armory chest limitations is a bit more of a game-breaking issue, especially with the new jobs coming. In comparison, this issue is more of an annoyance, if anything.

However, I do hope the developers realize that this issue isn't going to go away. I'm gong to guess that people will be making even more noise, especially with the expansion, since we may be getting up to three jobs sharing armor and glamours.

I have a question... What if glamours were handled similarly to fantasia? In that you'd have your character in a sort of "dressing room" where you can swap out different sets of armor, etc. for glamour purposes. Would that free up the server load since you're not really having to use inventory slots in the same way things like hair color, eye color, etc. don't take up slots?

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Originally Posted by tymora

Since you think you know so much, please kindly elaborate the "ways" that don't transmit more data.

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Better yet, you could just have Yoshi walk down the hall to the broom closet where SE keeps the FFXI dev team and ask them how they do glamour. It's similar to FFXIV's gear sets, you equip the gear you want as glamour and then save it as a set. I think you can even change your actual equipped gear without changing your style too.

Currently in FFXIV, glamour data is attached to items. Yoshi's solution to this problem sounds like he would add more space for glamour data to every item. Then you could glamour one item to have multiple appearances, but that data would all be transferred because it lives on that item. So you would be sending two full sets of glamour data. If glamour data was saved the same way gear sets are, the game would only need to transmit the currently equipped set.

Why doesn't someone ask at these events when will they have the server capacity for these QoL stuff? >.>. And what prevents them from upgrading it when they claim to have 4m subs, as money shouldn't be too much of an issue anymore.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/...paign=Blogroll

Source of where it says 4m subs lol

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

One thing to consider, though it's not necessarily a bright side, is that in the future, top-of-the-line gear might gravitate toward job specific.

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It is this way for DPS. Yeah, NIN shares some lower tier gear since it's a late comer, but other than that, and in the latest tiers, left-side gear is all JSE for DPS jobs.

It's only healers and tanks that share...

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Better yet, you could just have Yoshi walk down the hall to the broom closet where SE keeps the FFXI dev team and ask them how they do glamour. It's similar to FFXIV's gear sets, you equip the gear you want as glamour and then save it as a set. I think you can even change your actual equipped gear without changing your style too.

Currently in FFXIV, glamour data is attached to items. Yoshi's solution to this problem sounds like he would add more space for glamour data to every item. Then you could glamour one item to have multiple appearances, but that data would all be transferred because it lives on that item. So you would be sending two full sets of glamour data. If glamour data was saved the same way gear sets are, the game would only need to transmit the currently equipped set.

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FFXI is not the first/only game to do this. A number of games have done it like this: You have two sets of equipment slots. One is what you are actually wearing,t he other is what you appear to be wearing. If the latter is empty, you look like you're wearing whatever you're actually wearing. If the appearance-only slots are full, then that overrides what you're actually wearing. (A further alternative is to not actually require an item in those slots but to allow anything you've owned before, even if you've since junked it.)

I'd really much prefer that system.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Is SE on a 100GB/month data plan or some such? Seriously, I don't think I've ever heard devs of other games being this much concerned with data transfers, citing it this often, especially in case of an online only game. I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous.

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I've never seen a game at this player scale where the devs have put this much time and effort to being so involved with the community. You probably have never heard about concerns with other games because the devs didn't give a crud if you knew that kind of stuff or not. You are on a need to know basis and you didn't need to know.

But that isn't exactly how these guys run things. They clearly care a LOT about the community and our opinions. The problem is that there are thousands of different suggestions and opinions throughout the forum. We cannot and will not get everything. But we can ask! ^.^

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Originally Posted by Etiken

I've never seen a game at this player scale where the devs have put this much time and effort to being so involved with the community. You probably have never heard about concerns with other games because the devs didn't give a crud if you knew that kind of stuff or not. You are on a need to know basis and you didn't need to know.

But that isn't exactly how these guys run things. They clearly care a LOT about the community and our opinions. The problem is that there are thousands of different suggestions and opinions throughout the forum. We cannot and will not get everything. But we can ask! ^.^

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And we will ask.

Making requests on this forum is almost a RNG game in itself, and personally, I find it much more enjoyable than materia overmelding (better odds too).

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Originally Posted by Etiken

You probably have never heard about concerns with other games because the devs didn't give a crud if you knew that kind of stuff or not.

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Doubtful. Game Devs for other MMOs tend to be just as open about where their limitations lie, especially because a technical limitation gives them a lot more validity to avoid action than one caused by prioritization or planning.

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Originally Posted by Etiken

But that isn't exactly how these guys run things. They clearly care a LOT about the community and our opinions. The problem is that there are thousands of different suggestions and opinions throughout the forum.

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The problem is they don't look at the missteps others have made before making their own decisions.

In any case, I've never seen any game company complain that they couldn't improve a system for fear of the server load, let alone one that is already a multi-million dollar company with a sizable subscription profit to draw from.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Is SE on a 100GB/month data plan or some such? Seriously, I don't think I've ever heard devs of other games being this much concerned with data transfers, citing it this often, especially in case of an online only game. I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous. From all we've heard, data storage on the servers is already a huge strain as well. Go on increasing it, it will be even more of a problem (same thing with the housing wards btw). A

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I can tell you why this is the case.

But before I do, go download LOTRO, log in and try running around all the zones. What you will find is a game that has added too much data transfer through addons/expansions and free content. You can have the very *best* PC stats in the world, yet you will constantly lag and crash while zoning, running around, or doing just about anything for that matter. I *used* to run around the world on the highest graphic settings for the game many years back, but the more content they added, the slower the game became until you just about had to restart the client to simply zone into and out of buildings.

What once was an amazingly fun game turned into a a horror freak show. (and most of this was all before it went F2P, it only got worse after that) People stopped playing for better/smoother/less laggy running games until the population is what it is now. A small fraction of what it was in its hayday. *This* is what SE seems to be doing by the choices they are making, and I wholeheartedly approve. I plan on playing this game for years to come and don't want to see it go down the same path as other MMO that have either already shut down or are on the verge of it.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It is this way for DPS. Yeah, NIN shares some lower tier gear since it's a late comer, but other than that, and in the latest tiers, left-side gear is all JSE for DPS jobs.

It's only healers and tanks that share...
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you forgot casters, who aside from their job quest gear, all share gear.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

I can tell you why this is the case.
But before I do, go download LOTRO, log in and try running around all the zones. What you will find is a game that has added too much data transfer through addons/expansions and free content. You can have the very *best* PC stats in the world, yet you will constantly lag and crash while zoning, running around, or doing just about anything for that matter.

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E X A C T L Y !

*bows out courteously and bids all farewell*

so many whiners, more and more do people want games to be simpler and simpler, damn these casuals. how about not bother even with armoury chest space, it doesnt make sense that we are carrying hundreds of gear on use. thats some crazy weight! current armoury chest is aalready too big. housing should take care of the space shortage. allow us to to use housing to store more of our goods instead. carrying gear for all jobs is ridiculous even in a magical fantasy environment.

you know whats better. Items used to glamoured should break once glamoured onto another item. surely thatll save space! YAY!

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Originally Posted by Equinoxi

you know whats better. Items used to glamoured should break once glamoured onto another item. surely thatll save space! YAY!

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That is a terrifying thought lol

Hey we didn't have glamour back in 2.0
Be thankful and just be patient as they have more important things to do than QoL stuff such as this atm lol.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Think about it this way. If a single piece of armor could have multiple glamors for each job that uses it, then any one piece might have up to 24 different glamors on it (including the upcoming new jobs). That's a significant amount of additional information needed per item. Yes, I realize that in practice many gears are locked to specific classes or jobs, but there are plenty that aren't and if they added this system it needs to be flexible enough to accommodate both scenarios.

That means your client is not only downloading the information for the gear itself, but also 23 additional glamors in addition. I don't think many people realize just how much of a strain that could be on the servers, never mind the additional space required for the many hundreds of equipment pieces there are.

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One possible way will be to remove the glamour crystals, and separate glamours from the item properties. So we will get two set of gears, the one we have now with the stats, and a second glamour set that only require the skin of the gears. So let say I equipped a set of poetic gears for my paladin as my base gears, then I equip the Odin set for my glamour gears. Next I will hit a "show glamour" button on the UI next to the show/hide headgear & weapon button, and the system will run a internal check with predefined rules. If the test pass, the skin of the glamour set will overlay/replace the skin of the base set. If any item fails, it will simply show the skin of the base set for that particular slot.

Putting performance issue aside, this will allow smoother on-the-fly glamour changes along with the benefit of multi-slot item glamouring. The tricky part will probably be the glamouring of casters, 2H staff vs 1H wand + shield, but it's probably something that can be iron out if SE decided to go with this. On a side note, can SE please demolish the grade 1~5 for glamour crystals and just stick to one crystal per crafting job? I believe having 7 glamour crystal is good enough for market diversity, no?

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Hey we didn't have glamour back in 2.0
Be thankful and just be patient as they have more important things to do than QoL stuff such as this atm lol.

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To be fair, I suppose we should also be thankful that there are enough people "patient" enough to expect, and actually ask for improvements, as opposed to, I don't know, going off to play something else. I find that constructive feedback is much more constructive than the occasional sprinkling of cane-shaking.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

The problem is we have to keep gear for glamour in our inventory in the first place.

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Store it on a retainer.

So in other words buy multiple of the same item to do a glamor for each character. No this is not what we are asking.