Whats the point of attribute stats?

Does anyone actively change them around on a daily basis? And even then does it make a big difference?

I haven't changed my stats since 1.0. No, seriously, it's been the same spread (or lack thereof, I dumped it all into a single stat pertinent to the class in question) since I started playing. Generally speaking, there's not much reason to reset your stats even once unless you're into experimentation. It can make a difference, but the impact isn't huge unless you go all in on one stat.

Aside from your primary damage stat and VIT, and PIE for specific builds, they don't matter.

30 points into a damage stat is pretty big for a DPS. 30 points into MND for a healer.. doesn't matter so much for healing, but does matter for DPSing in Cleric Stance.
VIT can be really important for endgame progression.

They matter for exactly 2 classes: WAR and SMN/SCH.

WAR, at a certain gear level, benefits more from having 30 more STR than it does having 30 more VIT.

SMN and SCH just get the hose since they both share the ACN class and therefore the ACN class' bonus stat allocation despite the two jobs requiring different stat priorities.

It's a ridiculous system. The only option it opens up to players is the chance to do something wrong.

When I play a tank in pvp I switch from vit to str.

It's a noticeable difference.

To show who are bad and good tanks, of course.

(spoiler: good tanks always STR)

They can help a good bit if you're trying to push content and need more VIT to survive unavoidable damage.

But I do feel like they should be 86'd and a real talent system added.

Tanks tend to mess about with it, vit when on low end of gear then transition into str as you stop needing the extra hp buffer and such.

My static also had some people put some points in vit to meet hp threshholds when a bit low on gear for t13.

Seriouspost: A talent system is just a more elaborate straitjacket. If your game's hardest content is co-op, people will either go for the optimal choice or get nothing but grief from everyone else if they don't.

A somewhat better, though still flawed way to add customization would be to add more flexibility to cross-class skills. There'd still be "optimal" choices, but if much of the overlap was redundant then it'd give players a way to tailor the way their character feels to them.

If you are a hardcore raider aiming to push phases/maxing dps, or doing new content that need enough HP to survive, yes

If you don't really care about raiding, no.

Just like being i90 is no different from being i130 if you aren't going to put it in use.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

They matter for exactly 2 classes: WAR and SMN/SCH.

WAR, at a certain gear level, benefits more from having 30 more STR than it does having 30 more VIT.

SMN and SCH just get the hose since they both share the ACN class and therefore the ACN class' bonus stat allocation despite the two jobs requiring different stat priorities.

It's a ridiculous system. The only option it opens up to players is the chance to do something wrong.

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I think it matters a ton for BLM.

I'm happy of my 30 vit on all jobs and cannot count how many times that saved the day.

Ho yes if you put points into the 'right' stat you higher your dps, but every time I'm told this, I will think that a dead dps does not dps, and a dead healer doesn't heal.

Take account all the above, is because I will PUG often so it is a necessity. If you are with a static and confident you will not be pushed over your HP low limits, well yeah, take that points where they belongs :cool:

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Originally Posted by Mahri

Seriouspost: A talent system is just a more elaborate straitjacket. If your game's hardest content is co-op, people will either go for the optimal choice or get nothing but grief from everyone else if they don't.

A somewhat better, though still flawed way to add customization would be to add more flexibility to cross-class skills. There'd still be "optimal" choices, but if much of the overlap was redundant then it'd give players a way to tailor the way their character feels to them.

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This is your best answer. It's silly, and needs to be removed imo. shrug.

It's a holdover from 1.0 when you had limitations on stacking stats (couldn't go all in on a single stat), you had a secondary damage stat (don't know them all but MNK was STR/INT for damage), and if I recall almost everybody needed to allocate at least some VIT to not have terribly low HP. On top of that many more skills used MP so piety (or was it mind at the time...?) might be needed to some extent even for non-casters. More stats also did double duty for some things as well I think (Dex contributed to accuracy and/ or crit I think, mind or piety also contributed to magic accuracy, etc.).

As it is now, it barely makes any sense and for most cases may as well be absorbed into the stats you get automatically from leveling up.

When i was leveling pld, i puts 1:1 on str and vit. Mainly because paladin's agrobsucks so bad before shield oath comparing to warrior same level. And having aggro issue meaning a potentially wiping dungeon run. So yeah. After shield oath i dumped all in vit. Cause tank.

Meh, I've never even bothered allocating them. Haven't had any problems killing things and haven't died but maybe a handful of times from 1 to almost-49. So they're pretty much ignorable.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I haven't changed my stats since 1.0. No, seriously, it's been the same spread (or lack thereof, I dumped it all into a single stat pertinent to the class in question) since I started playing. Generally speaking, there's not much reason to reset your stats even once unless you're into experimentation. It can make a difference, but the impact isn't huge unless you go all in on one stat.

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Same here, lol! I just wish i had all those resistance points back to stack for primals again!

i mostly only change it up on PLD. when getting a new shield i will look at the block rate and block strength. if they are even i go, 15 in STR and 15 in DEX. if say for example, block strength is higher then block rate. then i will do like all 30 in DEX. it doesn't particularity make any significant difference... meh.

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Originally Posted by Atmora

I think it matters a ton for BLM.

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I know sometimes BLM will put in a single point of PIE to meet an mp threshold (unless Dunesfolk master race), but even this isn't really a big deal.

Even a talent tree system has the same problem, though the illusion of choice is more convincing, it's still an illusion. You still have the choice to choose the optimal build, or choose to do it wrong. Sometimes you have two or three points to put wherever you want, but this is generally because the choices remaining to you have little to no impact on your performance.

The system that WoW transitioned to in MoP, or the system that SWTOR is using now seem much better in this regard. WoW's system has you choosing between 3 similar choices per talent tier. There's always going to be a mathematically "best" choice, but usually the difference is so slight that your playstyle gets to make the final call, which is how it should work. SWTOR's system just has you picking utility modifications like "When I charge, I'm immune to knockbacks for 4 seconds." That sort of thing.

I put my 30 points for SCH/SMN into Vit to avoid having to switch all the time. Being a bit tankier never hurts.

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Originally Posted by Zorvan

Meh, I've never even bothered allocating them. Haven't had any problems killing things and haven't died but maybe a handful of times from 1 to almost-49. So they're pretty much ignorable.

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Of all the answers to this, this is the only wrong one. There's no reason not to allocate them. It takes less than a minute to do and is essentially like having an extra piece of gear in a stat of our choice.

30 points don't scale with gear. The better gear you get the less impact these extra attributes have.

Unless we get a significant increase in points when leveling to 60, these extra attributes will become even less meaningful as better gear is introduced to the game.

For me right now it is a nuisance to remember to assign them as I level.

Reset my pld to full vit due to very low gear ilevel was a nice bonus, as my ilevel is increasing I'm gradually swapping it back to str

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Originally Posted by Dement

Of all the answers to this, this is the only wrong one. There's no reason not to allocate them. It takes less than a minute to do and is essentially like having an extra piece of gear in a stat of our choice.

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There's a perfectly valid reason for not allocating them.

I can't be bothered to. :p

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Originally Posted by Callinon

I know sometimes BLM will put in a single point of PIE to meet an mp threshold (unless Dunesfolk master race), but even this isn't really a big deal.

Even a talent tree system has the same problem, though the illusion of choice is more convincing, it's still an illusion. You still have the choice to choose the optimal build, or choose to do it wrong. Sometimes you have two or three points to put wherever you want, but this is generally because the choices remaining to you have little to no impact on your performance.

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While this is almost always true, there are games that do this correctly (though I'm not sure if there are any in this genre). Path of Exile comes to mind with an enormous multitude of useful builds. Sure, there probably is a mathematically correct build, and that game's system is aided by dynamically generated equipment that will alter your stats (the very opposite of the terribly static offerings we have here), but with enough variety and finesse you could create a talent tree (or tumble weed) that offered a lot of customization without a singular standout winner.

The problem is that it's exceptionally difficult to design lots of alternate skills/ abilities/ stats that are so close to parity without being almost literally the same, that most developers don't try.

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Originally Posted by Zorvan

There's a perfectly valid reason for not allocating them.

I can't be bothered to. :p

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You can't be bothered to click on a few buttons for 10 seconds? I daresay you're going to have problems later down the line.

I can't be bothered to equip a body piece of armor.

I can't be bothered to map Shield Oath to my hotbar.

I can't be bothered to get Provoke cross class skill for my Warrior.

See where we're going?

On the point of diminishing effect, if we don't get a massive amount of points in the next 10 levels, they'll probably prove to be more effective placed into a tertiary stat. I don't know the maths, but as it is the 643 str I have now wouldn't be reduced by even 5%, whereas (for the moment) , I could rock around with 435 more HP, boost of over 6%. The idea being that a monk never gets hit not withstanding.

Perhaps dex on PLD would have been a better argument (Block and parry), but I don't know the math there at all.

As it is though, it has use, but it's not so important that it matters if you mess it up, though it's easy to correct. On the other hand NOT using the points is flat out stupid. You may as well bin your weapon and grab one from 10 levels earlier.

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Originally Posted by Anneliese

I can't be bothered to equip a body piece of armor.

I can't be bothered to map Shield Oath to my hotbar.

I can't be bothered to get Provoke cross class skill for my Warrior.

See where we're going?

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I just can't be bothered to put in my entire password. AND a one-time code? You've got to be kidding me.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

If you are a hardcore raider aiming to push phases/maxing dps, or doing new content that need enough HP to survive, yes

If you don't really care about raiding, no.

Just like being i90 is no different from being i130 if you aren't going to put it in use.

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Honestly even that's only applicable to a few people. If you're really pushing progression, you can get far better value out of crafted gear than the 1:1 tradeoff that your allocation gets you. If you're way behind then you're better off just overgearing your way to the extra vit. So allocating vit for progression survivability is only a particularly good option for people right behind the hardcore crowd, who might not have reasonable access to crafted gear.

Also @ the people claiming it's better for general-purpose survivability... idk man. 30 vit translates to about 450 hp. So yeah dead dps do 0 dps and all, but if 450 hp is what's keeping you alive then there are other problems that should be addressed. If it works for you then cool, but be cautious about giving that out as general-purpose advice.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

30 points don't scale with gear. The better gear you get the less impact these extra attributes have.

Unless we get a significant increase in points when leveling to 60, these extra attributes will become even less meaningful as better gear is introduced to the game.

For me right now it is a nuisance to remember to assign them as I level.

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Not putting them in everytime one becomes available is one thing. Not putting them in ever, even in one lump sum when you're 48-50, is another beast entirely. Even with the scaling, there's no reason at all not to assign them.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Also @ the people claiming it's better for general-purpose survivability... idk man. 30 vit translates to about 450 hp. So yeah dead dps do 0 dps and all, but if 450 hp is what's keeping you alive then there are other problems that should be addressed. If it works for you then cool, but be cautious about giving that out as general-purpose advice.

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Agreed. When I get punched in the face during a raid, I get punched in the face for thousands of damage.

They feel extremely pointless, very few classes might mix 1 or 2 stat points into something else for some reason but they are almost always entirely dumped into one stat since half the stats are always useless for you anyways.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Agreed. When I get punched in the face during a raid, I get punched in the face for thousands of damage.

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When you get punched by an unavoidable AoE for 6000, and you have 5900HP, you'll wish you had that extra vit. Or a competant scholar, but even competent scholars can't mitigate damage they don't know is coming.

Sch smn are the only poor sods that really have to change it often since you can't do both mind and int. Sucks to be them.

Blm occasionally drop a couple points in pie for mana thresholds for smoother fire rotation.

Tanks swap vit and str as they gear up in progression content to meet hp thresholds.(also swap around for pvp)

Poor raiders sometimes put stats in vit for hp thresholds if they can't afford melded accessories.

Some healers put vit for pvp and be really frigging hard to kill.

Those are the only good reasons I've ever heard or done.

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Originally Posted by Raeletta

When you get punched by an unavoidable AoE for 6000, and you have 5900HP, you'll wish you had that extra vit. Or a competant scholar, but even competent scholars can't mitigate damage they don't know is coming.

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unavoidable attacks are specifically designed to be survivable without the extra vit, though (assuming average gear, if you're in hardcore progression then it becomes an entirely different conversation involving crafted gear). In theory, sure, but the number of situations where an unavoidable attack will knock a non-tank under 450 without killing them are effectively 0. That's another important part: you're only giving yourself a 450 hp window, which is very specific. The odds of you getting overkilled by something within that margin is very small.

So if you feel you've run into a specific situation (like gigaflare or terraflare during progression or something) then I wouldn't judge someone for switching to vit, even though I'd go a different route myself. But if we're still talking about general situations, then the extra main stat will be useful far more often than the health.

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Originally Posted by Raeletta

When you get punched by an unavoidable AoE for 6000, and you have 5900HP, you'll wish you had that extra vit. Or a competant scholar, but even competent scholars can't mitigate damage they don't know is coming.

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Then meld one accessory with your BiS stats and add some VIT in there. You should never compromise your main stat for survivability unless you're a) progressing through difficult content, b) have a solo gear set, or c) you over gear the content and you're trying something new (tanking as a dps, mrd going full STR, whm in full VIT spamming med 2).

The only time I did was back during the first few months of ARR, on WHM. Went full VIT at first for safety, then as my gear got better I flipped it all over to MND. The VIT was also a bit of a holdover from 1.0, when the stat buffed enhancing magic(SS and Regen) and I had stacked a lot of it for that(combined with the earth/VIT jewelry also increasing the damage of Stone and Stonega).

It feels useless because in the grand scheme of things, 30 points is fairly negligible.
Also, most jobs just take it all into their main stat.
But there is definitely room for experimentation.

As mentioned VIT can pretty much go on every character. You could make arguments about how non-tanks should be avoiding damage as much as possible, and healers will take care of the rest. You could also argue for tanks putting STR when they're geared up enough to know they can survive without all that extra HP from VIT. But these arguments are for PvE and it's hard to argue against having VIT in PvP. VIT really does help every class against Raw Destruction and Cometeor spam.

There are also other things to try out and experiment that I rarely see talked about. You could put PIE on healers which will help in long fights. You could also put PIE on a BRD to make songs last longer. There is also the problem of the SMN/SCH dilemma where they share the same stat allocation but would benefit from different stats. It's rumoured this will be addressed with the expansion but we haven't been given any specific details about it yet.

Restat item is fairly cheap and stacks to 99 so it's not all that strange to be changing them around every so often.