An idea move for Monk

What if we have an new stance maybe electric fist that convert mp to tp.

I think that would be sick

It's not a bad idea, as the monk would be giving up the fists of fire bonus in exchange for the regen, but it also would lessen the utility value of bards and ninjas as members who can restore TP for others.

No offense, but I think this is totally wrong idea...

BRDs (Machinist maybe too) are the DPS job with lots of "support" skills that help your party. MNKs are supposed to be DPS machines, that does help with DK and Mantra too, but their main goal to to just pump out DPS.

Having MNK sacrificing their DPS just to keep up TP, is wrong IMO... Ofc, if they balance it in a way that you would only need to be in that stance for a short period, and have high DPS overall in the fight, then it could work.

That being said, others still need TP song or Goad, and if BRD have to use it anyways, then there is no point in that stance...

Maybe there are a ton of changes in 3.0 that makes this viable, but I still don't like the idea of lowering your DPS on a MNK ever.

If Monk got Fists of Thunder (or something like that), I think it would function better by turning single target attacks into AoE. Striking an enemy would cause arcs of chain lightning to hit nearby foes. It would then serve as a situational utility, where Fire would be best for single target but in heavy add/AoE situations, swapping to Thunder might be more beneficial.

I like all of your opinions and view on this topic.

I like fist of thunder idea.
god knows mnk need a decent aoe that work more than once every 60 sec

Why fists of thunder. We already have the relatively useless fists of wind, might as well fix that before putting more fists in.

Same goes with the idea of fist of thunder aoe. That's just a band aid for the fact that arm of the destroyers is kind of garbage and both arm of the destroyer and rockbreaker are massive TP drains and Howling Fist has an absurdly long cooldown for what is essentially a slightly stronger rockbreaker effect.

Don't clutter the monk, fix what doesn't work first before adding in more crap.

Inner Focus

Stops the timer for Greased Lightning from decreasing for ten seconds, until a weaponskill is used, or until damage is taken. [/what's broken]

I want that move in pvp ws that's aoe and give u 3 stack, that's all mnk needs.

Lol heck take away proc for haymaker that's 170 pot that just sitting there

What I suggested in another thread for a "fists of lightning" was an increase to crit rate in addition to a trait that restored some TP for every crit. That would give monks a lot more longevity in fights, especially given the bonus in crit rate from internal release. Or even just make the crit->TP restore the effect of the stance. Personally I'd prefer this to a stance converting mp to tp, just because I feel it works better thematically.

Fist of wind need an movement increase n arm of destroyer need an dmg increase plus lower tp, monks already consume the most tp

LB3 for mnk will be the use of all skill with 0 gcd and consume 0 tp for a certain period of time, thats what i want. aka way of the 100 fist

Now if i could hope for a new skill for mnk, it would be something like a meditation ability. It would only be accessible outside of combat and would give you GL3, so that you wouldnt need to ramp up at the start of a battle. Would fit the theme of monks very well too.

Pondering on that idea they could alternatively also give it a long cast time, say 6-8 seconds and make it usable IN combat. This would solve both the ramping up issue at the start as well as the issue with breaks in battle (you could just meditate while waiting for new enemies to spawn). The long cast time also means that you cant just get GL3 for free, since just pummeling your way back to max stacks would most likely still be better than not attacking for 8 seconds.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Now if i could hope for a new skill for mnk, it would be something like a meditation ability. It would only be accessible outside of combat and would give you GL3, so that you wouldnt need to ramp up at the start of a battle. Would fit the theme of monks very well too.

Pondering on that idea they could alternatively also give it a long cast time, say 6-8 seconds and make it usable IN combat. This would solve both the ramping up issue at the start as well as the issue with breaks in battle (you could just meditate while waiting for new enemies to spawn). The long cast time also means that you cant just get GL3 for free, since just pummeling your way back to max stacks would most likely still be better than not attacking for 8 seconds.

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Meditate? Eff that. If we're powering up before battle we better DBZ charge that ****! I want the constipated growl and everything!

ninjas trick atack is still one of the strongest utilites in the game.

i dont overly care how its done, but MNK needs at least one skill that helps with the conservation of GL3 stacks when theres no targets to hit, the meditation idea of instantly granting 3 stacks with a long cast time does sound good, although in most fights that would make perfect balance obsolete, so i'd probably opt for it being instant and have a long recast time while only giving 1 stack (which would also refresh the duration of greased lightning), that or add a fixed amount of time to the GL buff, similar to how contagion works on summoners.

Or we could do something so abstract it would enrage the masses! Get rid of the damn thing =D. Gone. Replace it with combo points. Add in "combo finishers". Maybe make some of them get a bonus if used with a certain fist type.

Then we could use Perfect Balance instead to get as many combo points as possible for a actual burst phase?

Yeah better get the shield up and ready.

The meditation ability sounds like quite a good idea though I think it should have the requirement of needing to be in combat as to not have it charged up before combat and while in combat during the cast damage taken is increased as to not make it too strong. This would make it so PB isn't useless and would require a skillfull play as a missed timed use would probably kill you due to immobile and more damage taken.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

The meditation ability sounds like quite a good idea though I think it should have the requirement of needing to be in combat as to not have it charged up before combat and while in combat during the cast damage taken is increased as to not make it too strong. This would make it so PB isn't useless and would require a skillfull play as a missed timed use would probably kill you due to immobile and more damage taken.

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Why all the drawbacks? I don't see the other melee DPS exposing themselves to so much damage just to keep their DPS up, and by this point DRG and Ninja deal the same or more damage than a monk.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

Why all the drawbacks? I don't see the other melee DPS exposing themselves to so much damage just to keep their DPS up, and by this point DRG and Ninja deal the same or more damage than a monk.

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half of this i agree with, vulnerability while meditating will cause it to become useless in progression where it really matters, because the main viable points to use it would be between phases, at which point there is usually large damaging moves incoming, phase 3 > 4 transition in t13 is the perfect example.

with that said, as to the post i've quoted, being "in combat" wont mean "i can hit the boss so i should do that instead", it would simply mean the boss as enmity from the party (because it has been pulled), phase transitions often render bosses invulnerable due to various reasons as we all know, this would be the time to use meditation.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

Why all the drawbacks? I don't see the other melee DPS exposing themselves to so much damage just to keep their DPS up, and by this point DRG and Ninja deal the same or more damage than a monk.

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Because otherwise monk would always be able to keep GL stacks up and will be the top DPS and with the use of DK they would put DRG and NIN below them it would also make PB worthless mid fight as it won't be needed, basically removes what makes a skilled monk skilled.

@Zamii it wouldn't as most parts were you can fit this in would take a while to deal damage and if it doesn't GL should still be able to be kept up, I would reduce the cast time of it to 4 seconds though.

I dont think meditation would render PB useless. Meditation would specifically be used pre combat and in phase transitions where you cant hit anything, while pb would be used to get your stacks back when you lost them due to a mechanic but are still able to attack things (not attacking for 8 seconds would be a big dps loss with or without GL3).

Also keep in mind that pb is much more than just a way to get GL3. Rockbreaker spam is actually stronger than doomspike due to GL3. I think meditation would give pb more room to be used creatively rather than you having to use it at the start of the battle and then save it for the phase shift.
Granted there isnt much gain for using it for singletarget situations currently but that might change with new skills in HW.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

Because otherwise monk would always be able to keep GL stacks up and will be the top DPS and with the use of DK they would put DRG and NIN below them it would also make PB worthless mid fight as it won't be needed, basically removes what makes a skilled monk skilled.

@Zamii it wouldn't as most parts were you can fit this in would take a while to deal damage and if it doesn't GL should still be able to be kept up, I would reduce the cast time of it to 4 seconds though.

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It already keeps up GL3 all the time in most encounters in coil. Ninja and Dragoon match monk damage at GL3 stack uptime. PB also wouldn't be useless as you could use it to burst instead of building stacks by chaining boothshines or true strike depending on your crit rate, and it would free up PB to be our aoe skill as finally we would be able to rely on it to chain rockbreaker for aoe phases.

I mean you have a ninja who has 3 mudra windows to renew his houton not mentioning precasting it before a fight. Dragoon....well everybody knows. But you gotta have monk skill by having an annoying mechanic that encourages monks to practice reckless habits to keep those greased lightning stacks whereas the other 2 melee DPS classes don't have to experiment at the raid's expense during progression in ways to keep your stacks through mechanics.

No.

We don't need self-supporting abilities like this. We already have support jobs as it is and we have not one not two but THREE abilities, combined support and self use, that restore TP.

I mean seriously, Fist of Thunder? Imagine what features SE could think for this besides the TP support WE ALREADY HAVE. Expecially since we have Invigorate.

Yes. I am a Monk, I would love more TP, especially since our Bard refuses to sing for me. Sometimes I don't even use Touch of Death to conserve TP. However to say I need a new self use ability for TP would be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

PB also wouldn't be useless as you could use it to burst instead of building stacks by chaining boothshines or true strike depending on your crit rate

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ok im just going to clear up one of the most common misconceptions about monk right here, perfect balance as a "burst skill" is actually a dps lose, you inevitably end up loosing dragon kick and twin snakes, the only time this would be useful is at the very last second of a boss fight where if they fall off afterward it wont matter anyway.
that being said i'll say it now because i know someone will try to correct me if i dont, it is possible to change a single gcd via PB and still receive a dps increase, although i hardly see changing out a single gcd being considered a "burst skill"

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Originally Posted by Zamii

ok im just going to clear up one of the most common misconceptions about monk right here, perfect balance as a "burst skill" is actually a dps lose, you inevitably end up loosing dragon kick and twin snakes, the only time this would be useful is at the very last second of a boss fight where if they fall off afterward it wont matter anyway.
that being said i'll say it now because i know someone will try to correct me if i dont, it is possible to change a single gcd via PB and still receive a dps increase, although i hardly see changing out a single gcd being considered a "burst skill"

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You are very much correct that there is little point in spamming with PB because you will lose DK and Twin.

The only time I spam with PB is in places like T4 where there is 5+ enemies and I think I can spam Rockbreaker and not kill myself with the TP loss.

Just put GL to 30sec or 1min. Problem solved, monk has top DPS all the time.

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Originally Posted by Zamii

ok im just going to clear up one of the most common misconceptions about monk right here, perfect balance as a "burst skill" is actually a dps lose, you inevitably end up loosing dragon kick and twin snakes, the only time this would be useful is at the very last second of a boss fight where if they fall off afterward it wont matter anyway.
that being said i'll say it now because i know someone will try to correct me if i dont, it is possible to change a single gcd via PB and still receive a dps increase, although i hardly see changing out a single gcd being considered a "burst skill"

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Why are you talking DPS when I said burst. When people say burst they mean adds that need to die in less than 10 seconds or really anything you need to spike down. I'm not talking about spiking a boss.

And why did you choose to cut that quote conveniently leaving out the other use, which would be aoe spam for adds phases.

The point is, PB still has uses besides getting back to GL3, it's just that right now we can't afford to use it that way.

A thought occurs to my fatigue-addled mind about PB.
It'd be useful if the form buffs were activated by our skills during PB so whatever form we're striking in when PB ends, it treats it as if we'd been performing a combo up to that point. That way if you end a PB using Twin Snakes, for example, you come out of PB's invisible Raptor and into Coeurl, ready to refresh GL3 with a Snap Punch / Demolish.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

And why did you choose to cut that quote conveniently leaving out the other use, which would be aoe spam for adds phases.

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i didnt really intend of having it seen that way, im in no way denying that its a good skill for AoE, but that is seperate to burst imho.

reading about the meditation skills a while back
what about meditation that locks the monk in place for 6 secs. every 2 secs grant a GL stack

so if you only need a stack just cast it for 2 secs then move but if you need entire gl3 youre rooted in place for 6 secs
good for phase transition and if you do it mid fight, the tradeoff is obv loss dps

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Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

reading about the meditation skills a while back
what about meditation that locks the monk in place for 6 secs. every 2 secs grant a GL stack

so if you only need a stack just cast it for 2 secs then move but if you need entire gl3 youre rooted in place for 6 secs
good for phase transition and if you do it mid fight, the tradeoff is obv loss dps

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^ this person gets it!

Though I guess the more technical term is Channel, which DRK is supposed to be getting in an ability or two.

Honestly though, the longer I read this thread the more I hate GL stacks, and that already make me stop playing the class for a couple of months =\

moving away from the whole meditation idea then, what about a skill that consumes your stacks instantly and does, less say 200 potency per stack, you obviously wouldnt want to use it every chance you got, but at a phase transition that you know your going to lose your stacks anyway or just before boss dies/enrages, hit the skill then for a nice big hit.
would also combo nicely with perfect balence in fights that you dont lose stacks for a true burst.

If they decide to go with something that consumes stacks, I would much rather we just move to a combo point system. Finish your combo, get a combo point. use said combo point for a cool attack. Would make MNK feel more dynamic.

Greased Lightning 3 = Grants special weapon skill.

That's all I want.

I think the problem with monk is that it doesn't feel very monk-ish, because it's held back by the base class. Most of the skills are pugilist skills. The job adds a marginal amount, and most of those skills added are useless.

I think Ninja should be a baseline for how they should revamp jobs. Everything about the ninja thanks to how the mudra was integrated seems very ninjaish.

Hundred Fists, Chakra, Chi Blast, more of that is what the monk need. The entire point of the monk was an eastern monk feel, not some cage fighter theme.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

I think the problem with monk is that it doesn't feel very monk-ish, because it's held back by the base class. Most of the skills are pugilist skills. The job adds a marginal amount, and most of those skills added are useless.

I think Ninja should be a baseline for how they should revamp jobs. Everything about the ninja thanks to how the mudra was integrated seems very ninjaish.

Hundred Fists, Chakra, Chi Blast, more of that is what the monk need. The entire point of the monk was an eastern monk feel, not some cage fighter theme.

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Every job in the game only gets five new buttons to push. So that's a silly stance to take.
Fists of Fire and Dragon Kick are part of the bread and butter of Monkhood. Shoulder tackle is an amazing utility for movement. Rockbreaker is the Monk's best potential for sustained AoE.
So only One Ilm Punch is the only arguably useless skill (outside PvP).
And if every class was based off Ninja's versatility, the game would be boring.

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Originally Posted by KikoriL

Every job in the game only gets five new buttons to push. So that's a silly stance to take.
Fists of Fire and Dragon Kick are part of the bread and butter of Monkhood. Shoulder tackle is an amazing utility for movement. Rockbreaker is the Monk's best potential for sustained AoE.
So only One Ilm Punch is the only arguably useless skill (outside PvP).
And if every class was based off Ninja's versatility, the game would be boring.

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And those five buttons aren't as useless. I mean, come on. Fist of Wind. One Ilm Punch. Even Fists of Earth is sorta extraneous given that the damage classes take is balanced around what other classes have. Remove Haymaker as it currently exists.

Fist of Fire is a passive damage boost aura, nothing really engaging about it. Featherfoot is just a crappier, less reliable Perfect Dodge.

Rockbreaker sustained AoE is nonexistent. Maintaining TP is already strained as it is, if you even use Rockbreaker on an encounter without constant goads and tp songs, it's gonna be just bad and not every group has the luxury of a ninja much less one that will always goad you over the warrior or other dps.

By comparison on my ninja the only truly useless ability is Hyoton.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

By comparison on my ninja the only truly useless ability is Hyoton.

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kiss of the wasp, hide, throwing daggers, 5th cross class skill since apparently defensive cooldowns are apparently useless as dps