More fun times in WoD

So, I was bored last night and decided to queue for WoD as a CNJ.

People raged and called me a noob immediately at the start, before we even start fighting anything, mostly dps doing it.

I raised several healers from other parties, healed people in other parties, raised them, kept my party stoneskinned and fully healed with only 1 person having a doom death on Angra with otherwise no deaths in our party, and threw in some dps myself.

We get to the dragon, wipe twice due to dps (with soulstones) failing to kill the heads fast enough (second time we got slime silenced right before discordance), and abandoned the duty.

Soulstones can be overrated.

I queued WoD in i90 gear as an i90 tank with i60 weapon and took hate from the i135 relic warrior on first boss causing the raid to get laser beamed... while I was in sword oath.

Now THAT is fun times... also super sad times.

Then that same warrior couldn't take hydra from DPS and hydra was stampeding across the place killing DPS left and right so I managed to grab it, and run it to the right spot and proceeded to main tank it.

I understand skill > gear but my gear as a tank shouldn't have done a better job than a fully geared max relic warrior cuz gear makes a huge difference on enmity generation lol.

Oh well, I got everything I needed from WoD and won't be returning :3

I knew a guy that used to do Garuda Extreme as a CNJ using provoke on the spiny plume when the tanks failed. This was long before echo was added and before most people could even claim to be able to farm it. Playing as classes rather than jobs can be a viable option some times, and it's not like WOD is even difficult, unless you get stuck with a lot of players with the collective IQ of a cucumber.

Yes, sometimes people blame others for mistakes on their part. But let me ask you,

What would you have done if people could have been saved if you were able to cast the whitemage job abilities? Shrugged and said, "Oh well, I'm a troll"? Intentionally gimping yourself (for no reason other than doing it) in a group of random strangers is pretty insulting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

Yes, sometimes people blame others for mistakes on their part. But let me ask you,

What would you have done if people could have been saved if you were able to cast the whitemage job abilities? Shrugged and said, "Oh well, I'm a troll"? Intentionally gimping yourself (for no reason other than doing it) in a group of random strangers is pretty insulting.

---

If that would have happened, I would have simply understood that I or my group failed. WoD really isn't hard enough to require the emergency healing abilities of WHM (unless other people are not doing their jobs). If I require benediction or divine seal there, there are deeper problems than not having a soulstone. That problem will either be I'm not doing a good enough job with the more than adequate skills for that duty that a CNJ has, or the group is failing really badly.

I think you're overthinking things here. Besides, I consider myself quite a skilled player and have been told that I am before, and my skill as a CNJ will always outweigh a WHM with terrible skill. If WoD was too hard for me or my group as a CNJ, I would not have gone in as one. The damage output for the most part in WoD is very low as long as people do their jobs.

It's not "insulting", as I do more than my part in there, and I enjoy challenging myself. It's as much anyone else's responsibility to avoid dying and taking damage from preventable things than it is mine to keep them alive through preventable damage. If the excess healing from WHM abilities is needed in WoD, then that means someone else isn't doing their job, so I would not take responsibility for their mess up any more than the person themselves (or group as a whole) should.

tl;dr version: In short, my job is to heal. Everyone's job is to do mechanics. If they do mechanics, I can do my job just fine as a CNJ in WoD. As such, unless I just plain out derp, it's not fair to blame me for someone dying. Not to mention, I'm already 18 ilvls over the required one for WoD...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darra

I knew a guy that used to do Garuda Extreme as a CNJ using provoke on the spiny plume when the tanks failed. This was long before echo was added and before most people could even claim to be able to farm it. Playing as classes rather than jobs can be a viable option some times, and it's not like WOD is even difficult, unless you get stuck with a lot of players with the collective IQ of a cucumber.

---

This guy gets it!

this week has been an award winning week for WoD. Ive been going in as WHM (collecting gear) and my counterpart healer all times this week has been the definition of suckage. First ones to die (how!?!??!) and cast cure every now and then. I want to put them on blast, but then I realize its just a waste of time and effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

*snip*

---

As a healer, you're suppose to keep people alive (to the best of your ability). In DF, at least half of your job will be healing people who screwed up. Regardless of what role you play, other people will probably screw up and place you in a situation where you may put forth additional effort to alleviate their mistake. If you have the capability to correct someone else's mistake, and don't, you're not exactly operating as a team player.

I know the pain Vivvien. Thankfully I usually have an adequately competent healing partner.

But those wipes from DPS derping en masse....bleh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

snip

---

Quite true! However, it still doesn't change the fact that blaming me is not fair. And still doesn't change the fact that even when people screw up in WoD, CNJ abilities still get the job done for most fights.

I'm more than happy to put forth extra effort if needed. However, benediction is an instant emergency heal with a long cooldown, intended to make up for sudden changes in damage/healing (neither of which should require benediction in WoD, as WoD's damage spikes are not that severe and are predictable, and are not followed up by immediate damage in most cases). Divine seal only supplements the healing a WHM/CNJ can already do, and my healing is already more powerful than requested for the duty. Neither of these are putting forth any more "effort" than I can already do. Same goes for regen.

The effort I put forth has nothing to do with what skills I have available. And the extra skills a WHM has are not needed with a decent group in WoD, and are crutches for bad groups in WoD. If you want to be a good player or get a good idea of how successful things are going, it's good practice to not rely on crutches.

SE gave people the option to go into level 50 duties as classes rather than jobs for a reason after all. And my party's survivability (and skill at handling mechanics), even allowing me to have time to dps in this instance proves that WoD is not a pain to heal when people do their jobs.

While I can see some benefits, when it comes to conjurer the cons outweigh the pros. We lose Regen, Divine Seal, and Benediction. Regen saves a ton of MP, Divine Seal can greatly boost our curative skills and Benediction... well, that needs no introduction.

Cross-class skills are hugely limited for Conjurer and the ones which can truly benefit us are also available to us as White Mage. Furthermore, the soulstone not only gives us access to those skills, but also increases our stats.

So, yeah... it can be done. But that doesn't necessarily mean it should be done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

As a healer, you're suppose to keep people alive (to the best of your ability). In DF, at least half of your job will be healing people who screwed up. Regardless of what role you play, other people will probably screw up and place you in a situation where you may put forth additional effort to alleviate their mistake. If you have the capability to correct someone else's mistake, and don't, you're not exactly operating as a team player.

---

So based on your statement, tanks that wear STR accessories (and therefore have less parry mitigation and less HP, and are harder to keep alive), are in fact "not exactly operating as a team player". Or what about the scholar that plays in cleric stance 95% of the time and fails to turn it off in time to heal when the other healer messes up, are they too "not exactly operating as a team player"?

The OP wasn't struggling to heal, the problem in the WOD he/she was doing was that the DPS were bad, the other problem was ignorance on behalf of the players placing blame and belittling them for going in without a job crystal, as if that's the thing that will make or break a group. Believe it or not, whilst this game isn't designed to give players much in the way of choice, the choices available can be viable options and I personally wish there was far more choices than what we have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darra

snip

---

This guy gets it again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

So, I was bored last night and decided to queue for WoD as a CNJ.

People raged and called me a noob, mostly dps doing it.

I raised several healers from other parties, healed people in other parties, raised them, kept my party stoneskinned and fully healed with only 1 person having a doom death on Angra with otherwise no deaths in our party, and threw in some dps myself.

We get to the dragon, wipe twice due to dps (with soulstones) failing to kill the heads fast enough (second time we got slime silenced right before discordance), and abandoned the duty.

Soulstones can be overrated.

---

I agree with most of the others, you were definitely wrong going in as a cnj, and not whm. I would have called you a noob too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dughug

I agree with most of the others, you were definitely wrong going in as a cnj, and not whm. I would have called you a noob too.

---

And yet, she keep the party alive, healed perfectly, even tending to people on the other teams whose healers couldn't keep their own people alive, she even dps'd a bit. But when the DPS players can't kill the hydra's heads in time, it is somehow the CNJ's fault for not being WHM?

Where exactly was she wrong? And with her skill outdoing all the other players, how was she a noob?

More likely, players like you have some preconceived notion of how other people should play and if it doesn't match how you want it, they you assume they suck.

The next time someone decides to go without their job stone they should ask themselves this: If the entire party or raid went without their stones, would you still be able to clear the content? If the answer is "no" or "yes, but it'd be difficult" you should be using your stone.

I don't care what your role is or how skilled you are. If I see someone as a class in lvl50 content I automatically assume they're okay with letting everyone else pick up their slack. The fact that the system doesn't prevent you from queuing as a class is also a tired excuse. There's a difference between can and should.

Only matters if you got people killed. Which it doesn't sound like you did. So fine by me. :V

And ppl r still complaining why?
Geez its almost 3.0 just don't bother with WoD anymore cuz its going to be useless soon and im 90% sure tht "its for vanity!" Is a lie cuz the moment 3.0 ur gonna glamour the new shiny gear u get and ofc omg server 1st af2 must show off, no time to glamour WoD on it!!
Just save urself the grief and stay away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dughug

I agree with most of the others, you were definitely wrong going in as a cnj, and not whm. I would have called you a noob too.

---

And you would have looked silly along with the rest of them when the wipes weren't at all caused by me, especially if you were in as a DPS (the problem people). Congrats!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

snip.

---

There was no slack, as I've said several times already. So there goes your point. Also, I recall a thread a bit back that involved a raid made of 3 tanks and 21 scholars. They cleared WoD. If they can do that, I highly doubt 1 CNJ is going to severely impact a raid.

Thanks for the people supporting me, you obviously have a sense of fun :D

I didn't cause any harm to anyone and enjoyed myself more than I would have if I would have went in as a whm for the billionth time. I'm glad some people see that :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darra

So based on your statement, tanks that wear STR accessories (and therefore have less parry mitigation and less HP, and are harder to keep alive), are in fact "not exactly operating as a team player". Or what about the scholar that plays in cleric stance 95% of the time and fails to turn it off in time to heal when the other healer messes up, are they too "not exactly operating as a team player"?

The OP wasn't struggling to heal, the problem in the WOD he/she was doing was that the DPS were bad, the other problem was ignorance on behalf of the players placing blame and belittling them for going in without a job crystal, as if that's the thing that will make or break a group. Believe it or not, whilst this game isn't designed to give players much in the way of choice, the choices available can be viable options and I personally wish there was far more choices than what we have.

---

The tank that has STR probably believes they can clear the content better with it, the healer that was in cleric stance (and didn't swap back in time) was in cleric stance because they believed that it was best for the group.

I'm not talking about the result of a person's intent, because (from the story) the OP wasn't at fault for any of the wipes. I'm talking about the intent. Did the OP honestly believe that going into the DF with no soul equipped would be better for whatever group they got placed in?

There's a difference between making a mistake and intentionally choosing an option that you know is a disadvantage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

The tank that has STR probably believes they can clear the content better with it, the healer that was in cleric stance (and didn't swap back in time) was in cleric stance because they believed that it was best for the group.

I'm not talking about the result of a person's intent, because (from the story) the OP wasn't at fault for any of the wipes. I'm talking about the intent. Did the OP honestly believe that going into the DF with no soul equipped would be better for whatever group they got placed in?

---

No, because that's not why op did it. They did it because they knew it would cause a reaction, and they wanted to feel superior when sharing the story.

At least, that's the impression this thread gives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerowaffle

snip

---

I believed it wouldn't be that much of a big deal either way. I often find myself overhealing as a WHM anyways. When people die when I heal, it's usually from wiping or from them getting hit by too many things to the point where healing won't help them (i.e. eating 3 dragonfly hits, running away with lightning, dying to doom, getting hit with lots of vulnerability stacks, etc)

If you find yourself relying on benediction and requiring divine seal in WoD, you should check your gear or playstyle. When I use either of them, it's almost always to simply convenience myself. They are never necessary unless I derp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seida

No, because that's not why op did it. They did it because they knew it would cause a reaction, and they wanted to feel superior when sharing the story.

At least, that's the impression this thread gives.

---

That's not the impression I intended. I intended to share an amusing story that I experienced and to remind people to not assume someone is a noob so quickly. i.e. I was called the noob by dps, then they did a nooby thing twice that resulted in wipes both times while I did my job perfectly.

I would make a very loud *sigh* seeing you as CNJ... but that's mostly because the other few times I've seen a class in 50 duty, it hasn't exactly ended well.

If you kept people alive and all, then I guess it's not a problem, and I usually come with awful healers that can't do better with those job abilities anyway... but...

What you did, is still what I hate about WoD... It's just full of people that either suck or doesn't bother/bored. I know you did your job, but still, why not try to do your best? The job abilities could maybe have helped you DPS even more... either way, I'm more talking about principles here.

When I do WoD(or rather, when I was doing it), I always at least put in a decent performance as a DPS. Even when I was slacking off some, I was still outputting 2, 3 or even 4(!) times more DPS than the average other DPS there... I'm not trying to sound like an elitist or anything, and it's WoD, I know... but I still want people to perform well and get through it fast, or get through it at all...

It has kinda become the mentality in the game that nothing matters.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't your fault, and I would never call you out if I was in that party.

Ok, here, I'll break it down simple like. You should have expected grief from the decision you made. So, why even complain on the forums? No one is gonna throw you a pity party, and no one cares. Post something interesting.

No one is complaining dude, and I'm not asking for pity! I'm actually enjoying the conversation going on here :) though i'd like to know why you think i'm complaining. I was even amused when we wiped!

If you don't find this thread interesting, no one is making you stay. Move along if you wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craiger

snip

---

This is a reasonable post. That being said, I was doing as good of a job as a CNJ as I would have as a WHM. Like I said before, my party really wasn't taking much damage due to them avoiding stuff and all. When I wasn't raising and healing other parties (and my own when they did need it, though they rarely needed more than a quick Cure I or II), I was dpsing, so I was still performing optimally. I didn't see any situation where WHM skills would have benefited me anymore than CNJ skills. Any dps boost from having WHM skills would have been extremely minor at best.

Plus, healer dps in WoD is just an extra bonus really. I could have not bothered with it at all. Plenty of healers don't dps at all, and I personally do not have a problem with that considering a healer's primary focus should be healing. I'd rather a healer who isn't good at multitasking just focus on healing rather than try to heal and dps and slack on healing as a result.

All they would have done was contribute to overhealing in this case. And to be honest, I was paying even more attention as a CNJ than I usually do as a WHM. Grinding the billionth time as a WHM would be brain numbing, CNJ was a fresh, fun experience that engaged my brain more.

I do understand your frustrations though. WoD groups are oftentimes very awful. If I was really wanting something from the last boss and had done a million runs already with no luck, I'd want as few risks as possible in the group and would probably be annoyed at first if I saw a CNJ.

I was aiming to prove to myself as well as to them though that I was capable of healing the raid successfully as a CNJ, and I did just that. Their frustrations with me quickly turned into frustrations with each other, and approval (or at least awareness that I wasn't causing a problem) of me. First impressions are often deceiving, as was the case here. People should always try to remember that. I personally will gladly take a talented CNJ with a bad first impression who gets the job done over an untalented WHM with a good first impression who does not get it done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

There was no slack, as I've said several times already. So there goes your point. Also, I recall a thread a bit back that involved a raid made of 3 tanks and 21 scholars. They cleared WoD. If they can do that, I highly doubt 1 CNJ is going to severely impact a raid.

Thanks for the people supporting me, you obviously have a sense of fun :D

I didn't cause any harm to anyone and enjoyed myself more than I would have if I would have went in as a whm for the billionth time. I'm glad some people see that :3

---

I didn't say you personally slacked. If I'm doing lvl50 content and I see someone without their soulstone experience tells me I should assume the worst from their performance. If you went in as CNJ and still played well, good for you. But you're the exception, not the rule so people's reactions are to be expected. Plus if you did that well as CNJ you would have done even better as WHM.

In the grand scheme of things, did it cause a lot of harm? No, probably not. However, that brings me back to my original question: if everyone else forwent the use of their stone too do you think your group would have done better or worse?

You also can't begin to compare a coordinated premade (made up of a borderline hybrid class no less) with your average WoD group, half of whom may as well be afk or have never heard the word "rotation" before. The only thing it proves is that a good group can clear relatively easy content with suboptinal comp.

And while "fun" is subjective, I don't at all see what's so entertaining about playing a weaker version of your Job.

Thread closed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

snip

---

I wouldn't have done any better actually, lol. As I've said several times, I kept my party alive and healed to full health and raised other parties when I saw that they needed it. Isn't that exactly what a WHM could have done? I never spotted a time when benediction would have made a difference, never saw the need for divine seal. Being a WHM would have only made me overheal.

And I already answered that question. What do you think has more of an impact on a group? One conjurer when there should be a WHM, or 21 scholars when there should be 6 healers and 15 dps? I'm aware that a coordinated group is superior to a pug. But unintended jobs still made up 15/24 of that raid. That alone will impact the flow of the raid more than one person who is playing without a soulstone. One person who is completely inept in WoD never makes a noticeable difference in its ability to be completed if enough others know what they're doing, so why would a competent CNJ not being a WHM make a difference?

That's still far more of an impact than one conjurer will have. I've even seen people solo heal a party before in WoD...


And as I said before. I enjoy challenging myself and wanted to do something different from the usual boring mindless grind.

Also,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

I don't care what your role is or how skilled you are. If I see someone as a class in lvl50 content I automatically assume they're okay with letting everyone else pick up their slack.

---

Is this not you assuming that I'm slacking and okay with it? Given the context of this thread, it strongly insinuates that you are. If you weren't though, I apologize, but you would have assumed wrongly of me regardless had we met in this WoD run.

What I see from the OP, correct if I'm wrong. But I see OP stating that DPS are not meeting the DPS checks due to deaths. WHM has more cure potency that CNJ cure. And then after several wipes, alliance abandons duty. So overall a bad run. Not a good one at all. So of course you're gonna get blamed. Not because of your lack of skill. But the fact that you are in there without a job stone. Scapegoat anyone? Granted you're not the only healer in there. But if you don't want to be blamed for wipes/not being able to complete the duty. Then come in prepared. That includes gear/cross class skills/job stone equiped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

Also, I recall a thread a bit back that involved a raid made of 3 tanks and 21 scholars.

---

http://puu.sh/haFR8/565ab0af2c.png

It was super fun. We gotta do this again sometime.

http://puu.sh/haFPv/b2ea16dd64.png

I don't think this would've worked out nearly as well if we were CNJ, though. Holy spam 2gud.

*shrug* I tend to roll my eyes when I see classes in duties rather than jobs. If they're not playing their role properly, I usually start a vote kick at the first opportunity. If you're going to call attention to yourself by going into a duty without your soulstone, you'd better be ready to be scrutinized. It sounds like you did your job fine, and just had sucky DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woggers

snip

---

Nah, they were bashing me when the duty started. They stopped bashing me after Angra went well. Many of the DPS were dying to lightning and such (and maybe stuff I didn't notice) during the first wipe (5 headed dragon), and they just didn't stop slime on the second wipe. The frustrations after that point were all directed towards the dps. I even saw a few dps literally run away from people with lightning while the people tried to chase them down, haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashkendor

snip

---

Thanks for posting that Ashkendor :) I enjoyed seeing that thread.

But yeah, I was aware people would notice me being a CNJ immediately and that people would be watching me. The fact that all the bashing of me stopped as we progressed through the dungeon and frustration happened enough to cause a vote abandon to succeed only when the dps started failing makes it seem like everyone else was fine with how I was performing, I know my party was.

I think it is kind of foolish to go into a group content and not have your character set up to do optimal performance. If you want a challenge then go do something solo, but when you are in a group with tons of other people who are counting on your best performance it is rather selfish to not give your best. I'm not saying you are a bad player or anything, but if a stone would have increased your output by even 1% then you should have used it for the group content.

EDIT: I thought I would add that while I don't have any endgame experience here (new player) I have tons of endgame experience playing WoW. In WoW it was very easy for people to skip one or two small things when optimizing their gear. Afterall you need gems, enchants, reforging (past expansions), a good rotation, ect... Oftentimes people would skip one or two things and it was no big deal, but if enough people in the raid started doing this then all the "minor" things started to add up to major things and suddenly you would start to fail at downing content.

To sum it up, its always best to optimize a character even if the difference is "minor".

Just my 2 cents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

Is this not you assuming that I'm slacking and okay with it? Given the context of this thread, it strongly insinuates that you are. If you weren't though, I apologize, but you would have assumed wrongly of me regardless had we met in this WoD run.

---

No, I should have been more clear. Not necessarily you, since your story tells otherwise, but if I see someone at the start of a duty as a class I'm going to assume they're a slacker and dont mind being carried. Someone playing without their stone may well go on to prove they're skilled enough that it doesn't matter much (such as you did apparently), but general experience has shown me that 9 times out of 10, someone on a class in a place like WoD will be about as useful as bifocals on a blind man.

The problem is Rende, with healing, sometimes that extra % output is wasted (overhealing, especially a problem for CNJ/WHM). I healed the people I noticed who needed healing, raised people who needed that, topped people off when it was needed. I never saw anyone at low health die while I was in the process of healing them (would have been a wasted benediction, since benediction is meant to be used as an instant, "oh crap another hit is coming to this person soon and they're at low health" skill). Divine seal wouldn't have done a whole lot since I was already topping people off when I could. The MT never got close to dying.

When not raising other parties or topping them or my own off with a quick heal, I was dpsing. Being a WHM really wouldn't have changed how that would have worked. All that would have done was increase healing potential, which was unneeded given I was already topping people off with one heal and most of the time, other healers were hitting them at full health with heals even, so overhealing was already going on to a degree.

In WoD, for better or worse, there are many mechanics that either kill you outright if you fail to act appropriately, stack in danger as you get hit, or do damage but do not follow up with more damage immediately. This leads to a lot of excess healing, as there's not a lot of steady damage going out to everyone.

To be honest, I'd be more nervous about being a CNJ in ST than in WoD. The bosses in there do a lot of unavoidable, consistent raidwide damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

snip.

---

That's completely understandable, not arguing against you there. On a typical day, I'd be skeptical myself about someone who is not using a soulstone. People in WoD are pretty bad these days after all.

I'd always watch a person doing that more closely than someone who is using a soulstone. I think you would have found me the rare exception to the bad player who does this though. Even the guy who was bashing me the most stopped after I raised him the second time while one of his healers was dead and the other was in the middle of casting a non swiftcast raise on someone who had the brink of death debuff.

I was expecting negative remarks at first, and was expecting a change of attitude as I hoped to proved my worth. This is exactly what happened.

My OP's point was to hopefully amuse people as much as it amused me that I was called a noob at the start by the same people who wiped us twice when I did my job and did it well, and to maybe let people know that sometimes, speaking without knowing can make someone look silly.

I would have at least given someone using a class a chance to prove themselves before asking them what they think they're doing.

You went into WoD as a CNJ because you were bored. You already knew the reaction you would get before doing it. Then surprise surprise people reacted the way you expected.

Intentionally doing something to get a certain reaction from others is pretty much the definition of trolling.

I don't understand; when people suggest to others to gimp their gear so that they can play content at the recommended ilvl for a real challenge, people cry "But we shouldn't have to gimp ourselves!" I read this thread and see a few people with the OP intentionally gimp themselves out of boredom,


....wut?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

snip

---

I've already said that I was expecting negative reactions at first...and I've said that people changed their attitudes towards me as the dungeon went on. I never said though that the reactions are WHY I did it. I did it to show myself and others that I could do it.

Their attitudes towards me were positive after they realized I was doing a good job, and after they realized people they didn't suspect were actually the real problem players. What's so bad about that? If I was wanting to troll, I would have played badly on purpose or something.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you could have done more (even if it was an insignificant amount) if you had gone in as a job instead of a class? Correct?

If so, then it is rather hypocritical to talk about how others in the group could have done more when you yourself could have done more by optimizing your character and min/maxing it as far as it could go. Unless you are giving 100% of your full characters potential in a group you really should not be talking about the other people in your group...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rendecrow

snip

---

Sorry, but that is wrong...

Providing overhealing is not as helpful as following mechanics. Not nearly as helpful.

Think about it, what sounds more helpful to you? Most people avoiding avoidable deaths and attacking what they're supposed to attack to prevent a wipe, or doing a 4k heal on someone with 2k missing health?

Me expecting the dps to "do more" would have meant they would have killed the dragon heads (as they're supposed to. failure to = wipe). Me "doing more" would have healed people to the top as a WHM in about the same number of heals as I did as a CNJ.

My "more" would have resulted in marginally more healing at best (even though as I said, I was already topping people off just as easily as usual), lots more overhealing at worst. The dps doing more would have meant we wouldn't have wiped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adire

Sorry, but that is wrong...

Providing overhealing is not as helpful as following mechanics. Not nearly as helpful.

Think about it, what sounds more helpful to you? Most people avoiding avoidable deaths and attacking what they're supposed to attack to prevent a wipe, or doing a 4k heal on someone with 2k missing health?

---

Obviously the latter, cause they can heal 2k now and save the other 2k for later, right?

I have tupperware containers full of leftover heals that I heat up for raids. :D

But you said your group wiped twice... clearly extra heals would have helped prevent that. Granted people taking avoidable damage is a big factor in the wipe, but if people are dying surely extra healing power would have helped carry the group through the boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rendecrow

But you said your group wiped twice... clearly extra heals would have helped prevent that. Granted people taking avoidable damage is a big factor in the wipe, but if people are dying surely extra healing power would have helped carry the group through the boss.

---

The group wiped because of the DPS not being able to focus the heads down for Discordance. If you have too many heads up, it's a one-shot mechanic due to massive damage. Divine Seal, Regen, Holy, or Benediction aren't going to help with that. Not to mention, they were silenced on their second attempt. She doesn't need a soulstone to stop that; a CNJ can stand in a puddle just as well as a WHM can. One could make the argument that Holy could have helped with the dps on the heads, but it shouldn't really be up to the healers to do all of the healing AND all of the damage dealing. *shrugs*