Gameplay lacking excitement?

So, after a while of playing the game I think that the game is a bit... well, luckluster, maybe even outright boring. I do not mean to flame, mind you. Rather, I want to ask if I'm the only one feeling like this about the game.

While I haven't arrived at endgame yet and understand well that the early levels aren't as challenging so casuals can get into the game as well, in my book there's just NO challenge at all mid-game, at least as a DPS.

Archer I can play with one hand, having to press merely 3 buttons and sometimes a forth while waiting for the huge GCD. I don't even have to look at the screen really, but can without much effort watch some cartoons on the side. While this may change with bosses being heavier on mechanics, the general "wait... button... wait..." scheme stays the same, since there won't be that many new skills to come that are really useful (except for BRD spells which are situational).

Then, BLM is hugely the same. Stand still, spam fire, transpose, spam ice and refresh thunder. This will only get "more challenging" by adding firestarter and thundercloud procs. Also, with rather long casttimes having to dodge an AoE just means no damage for 3-5 seconds. That's not challenging, that's just bad design, as those aoes aren't that predictable.

Even playing as a healer isn't that challenging. You mostly stand around and heal or do a bit of damage as well and while some of my guildmates told me that endgame content will be heavier on boss mechanics I can't help but feel like the combat itself is quite boring. On the other hand, I used to play games with action combat like TERA and Vindictus before, so maybe I'm just a bit spoiled.


What do you guys think? Is the combat system fine or not, and if so, how could it be improved? Do you think small changes like lower GCD are enough or that fighting had to be completely revamped to get better?

Personally, I still think the game is fun, however I am progress oriented and love me a good challenge, whereas the game is designed to be friendlier towards casual players. I think getting rid of the tab targeting and replacing it with action combat would be amazing (what is this, 2003?), mostly because I highly dislike evade rate as a stat. Or rather, I think that gameplay styles like those in FF14 are mostly a comparison of stats. It's the same in Skyrim for example. You hit a mob, mob hits you, and if your stats and gear are good enough you win. There's just not that much skill involved. Completely reworking this game aspect is practically impossible though, so yeah. Maybe making the combat faster by reducing GCD and cast times might be a change for good.
Also, I want to note again (just to be sure) that I haven't yet done endgame content, so please consider this before yelling at me ;)

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While I haven't arrived at endgame yet and understand well that the early levels aren't as challenging so casuals can get into the game as well, in my book there's just NO challenge at all mid-game, at least as a DPS.

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You are true.
When you are a low-level DPS (<40 or so...) you simply do not have that many skills and it can be boring.

Being tank or healer can make this area of leveling more interesting because there's more going on.
But for DPS, yeah, you just need to level up and get your skills.

...which is part of the fun of an RPG, learning your skills as your character grows in power.
I never found it boring, but I like RPGs.

Maybe RPGs aren't for you?

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You hit a mob, mob hits you, and if your stats and gear are good enough you win.

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Again, yeah... that's pretty much the formula for any RPG.
In non-RPG games, it's simply "if you hit the buttons in the right order/time, you win."
Some games have combinations of both.

The point isn't to make all games something you find fun.
The point is to find what's fun for you, and move in that direction. Don't worry, there's lots of people who like many different things. There will be lots of people who like the same thing you do, just figure it out and move in that direction.

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

...which is part of the fun of an RPG, learning your skills as your character grows in power.

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True, except that you have most skills you need at level 20-30. Afterwards you still get a useful skill or two, but the base is pretty much set.
I'll just use BLM as an example because that's what I main. At level 28 you're set in regards to gameplay mechanics. You got your fire and ice aoe spells, can stack UI/AF to two and have Thundercloud, which implements the "proc = dmg burst" mechanic of blackmages. At that time, there's nothing new to learn about how to play your character, basically. Firaga and Icega change your rotation slightly so you don't use transpose anymore, and firestarter adds a second proc to watch out for while playing, but those are just adding to mechanics you've already been introduced to, namely transpose and thundercloud.

I think after this point - after the player knows about the mechanics of their class - it is time to give them something new, either a playground to use the skills they've acquired or introduce them to something new: bossmechanics. Tank'n'spank is boring, so why not make fights exciting. Apparently this is the case in endgame, so that's something at least...

Also, I want to add that RPGs do not have to be your standard turn-based fighting style. There can be action. A lot of it, actually. Just take a look at Mass Effect or EYE: Divine Cybermancy. Those are shooters and yet are to be classified as RPGs.
The thing that bothers me about FF14 is just that it requires you to pay little to no attention. Like seriously, after a while you get the hang of when to change from fire to ice and back as a BLM, so all I would really need are 2 small LEDs to tell me when Thundercloud/Firestarter procced. That's just... UGH! One step further into that direction and you're already at "press X to win".

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Originally Posted by Cold_Raven

Maybe RPGs aren't for you?

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Oh, they are. I can look back at about 7 years of playing MMORPGs now. Heck, my first game back on the SNES was an RPG and it got me hooked even back then. The thing is, with singleplayer rpgs that are turn based or leaning towards it you usally get to control a whole group of people, which allows for tactical gameplay. Who should heal whom, and when? Should I focus all my chars on mob X, or maybe let one of em hit mob Y as well because the others can take X out just fine... ya know, stuff like that. Thing is, that doesn't work with an MMO, because the different jobs are split up. Player 1 gets to decide who gets healed, Player 2 has to focus on keeping the mobs' aggro, which are fun and challenging, because you actually have something to do and need to be constantly aware of the situation. Whereas as a DPS, you sit around drooling, hitting your buttons at an awfully slow speed and all the thinking you have to do is watch a proc or position yourself to the side/back as a meelee.


Let ranged DPS have skillshots that you actually have to aim with your mouse, maybe even hit specific parts of your enemy for bonus damage or let them move while casting (or at least reduce casttime. 2,5s wtf??), give the tank a block ability that has to be timed because it only gives a few iframes but the mobs hit harder so you actually have to block (blocking will cost TP though) and let their attack restore TP so you can't just block forever as a tank, but need to look for openings and attack in between your blocks. Now THAT would be something.

Real challenges are lvl 50 primal trials, some dungeons and raids. Really.
leveling 1-50 is kind of a very long tutorial, and I must admit that it can be boring. Do your story line (if you did not already) as this is the one which will unlock all cool stuff later (so you are not late in your story line when you hit 50).
I know it can be frustrating to wait that long but I think the game was designed like this to allow casual gamers, and even people for who this is the very first MMO (PS3 and PS4 players mainly) to learn how MMO work (the other day I met a new player playing a tank, he did not even know what a tank was or what he was meant to do, did not know what enmity was and did not know much in general... he was level 28 and he was so thankful that I explained all of this to him. He said that people were always insulting him because he was "doing his job" but no one ever told him what it was...)

Let the game another chance and when you are about to kill EX primals (first ones are considered easy but then next ones are harder and harder) you will be able to judge if the game is really not for you I think :)
When you hit level 50 it is not the end of the game at all, you got a lot of things to do and trials to unlock and of course to win :]

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Originally Posted by Phr3nic

the game is designed to be friendlier towards casual players.

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Isn't it a bit early for you to make such a statement? Considering, like every other MMO out there, the real game starts at maximum level.

A lot of the points you have made have to do with the design of the job you've chosen, Black Mages come down to properly managing your cooldowns and procs in the heat of battle rather than keeping tabs on a rotation like most other DPS jobs in the game. BLM also lacks off-GCD abilities that other jobs have to manage while staying true to their rotation. Firestarter and Thundercloud procs are on an instant cast and you can also utilize Swiftcast for when you are forced to move to dodge aoe. BLM is more about being able to never stop casting in order to maximize DPS. Believe it or not but a half decent BLM is really hard to come by a lot of the time because of how much awareness it requires.

If you're finding the game dull (which many people not familiar with the intricacies BLM often do), I suggest you try out another job that is more APM intensive such as MNK/SMN/DRG.

Hope you find a job that suits your tastes!

Get to End Game.

1-50 and Primals doesn't reflect the game what so ever. There's a good reason why people play this game, despite the slower combat.

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Originally Posted by Phr3nic

True, except that you have most skills you need at level 20-30. Afterwards you still get a useful skill or two, but the base is pretty much set.

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You should try Monk, Dragoon, or Ninja. You did pick the easier of the dps classes. The melee classes don't finish until 50 for most of them and require more focus.

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Originally Posted by Phr3nic

True, except that you have most skills you need at level 20-30. Afterwards you still get a useful skill or two, but the base is pretty much set.
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Thats completely false here. I recently got to level 50 and I thought the same as you. The game makes a big turn once u get in the level 40s and another big one post 50. I play as dragoon and ninja and my rotation/options have changed quite a bit.

I just can't wait for the new skills in the expansion that will change game play again.

I know one thing. Whatever class I'm playing as, I love to see someone using Flare.

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Originally Posted by Phr3nic

At level 28 you're set in regards to gameplay mechanics. You got your fire and ice aoe spells, can stack UI/AF to two and have Thundercloud, which implements the "proc = dmg burst" mechanic of blackmages. At that time, there's nothing new to learn about how to play your character, basically.

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I can't speak much to BLM. My BLM is only 33 or so, and I'm in the same kinda slower-paced area you're describing.

But I do know that for my other DPS (Bard, Summoner, and Monk so far) I was in this same place at the same level... then things picked up after level 40 or so. And picked up much more after 50, when all the boss mechanics start kicking in.

I'm expecting the same thing with BLM.. that things will pick up.
Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno... any BLM 50s that can add some specific details?

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Let ranged DPS have skillshots that you actually have to aim with your mouse, maybe even hit specific parts of your enemy for bonus damage or let them move while casting (or at least reduce casttime. 2,5s wtf??)

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Those sound like cool suggestions. But I don't think they fit with the game-flow of this specific game. It seems like a fundamental game-changer. Like you said, other games do things differently. Maybe your "style" and this game's "style" simply don't line up?

But yes, many people find this game extremely fun and challenging (there's millions of subs).

Also, yes, many people find this game boring and laughably ridiculous (there's billions of people not playing at all).

Blm you have to learn to minimize movement to keep your dps up, (more movement = less dmg you know) one can only truly know this when you begin to do end game, were as some fights you have to move alot and not actually "just stand there" so i agree with Sentinillia. And actually once you get blm to 50 you do stack more Fire and we still use transpose in rotations. The odd times you may get a Firestarter proc under Umbral Ice you should transpose to be back in AF otherwise you would be gimping your dps.
For the most part it is true about just hitting buttons, the only one somewhat more complex i would say is Ninja. Classes were as moving does not affect damage will always be easier for most players, so maybe as others have said try Monk, Ninja or Dragoon.
As for sideskills, again sorry but level a class fully to 50 and you will see that some skills are actually beneficial levels 35+
Mantra for example is a level 50 ability from Monk in which i have both for my Bard and Ninja

Yeah. Those suggestions are more for Action Style MMOs.
Not going to work in FFXIV.

This game may not be for you OP, if you prefer Tera/GuildWars style gameplay.
Get to 50 - Beat Titan EX.

You dont know a single thing about BLM and already diss the job? Nice one.

Try to sustain 570+ DPS in T10 as BLM while doing mechanics and dodging stuff. You ll see this is another story.

You seem not to be aware about how SSP affects your GCD & what rotation to use (if you still tranpose on a single target at 50 i have realy bad news for you).

I would suggest you to actually try the job before pooping on it. Feel free to dig into Puro's AWESOME spreadsheet.

Our job definitely dont deserve another "lol blm sucks fire fire ice" guy.

This game starts at lvl 50. The wonderful thing about this game is you can easily lvl and try all jobs/classes. Go and try them all. If you want fast pace GCD? Try monk or nin. You think the game isnt challenging? Just try Binding Coil of Bahamut T5 or Titan Extreme. These were the hardest end game content 12 months ago... and these sort of fights "gear lvl" dont mean squat. You want a time consuming activity to do? Go get your relic from Zenith to Zeta.

There is so much that this game offers and you havent even started. Its unfair to judge the game by only playing the first 5% of it (and 5% is being generous). I feel like FFXIV is my girlfriend and I have to defend her from someone who just called her fat lol! FFXIV has a rocking body and huge cans ;)

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Originally Posted by Maero

Mudra for example is a level 50 ability from Monk in which i have both for my Bard and Ninja

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o.O do you mean mantra at 42? I am now envisioning my bard firing off Raiton.

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Originally Posted by Tsilyi

o.O do you mean mantra at 42? I am now envisioning my bard firing off Raiton.

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Yeah sorry it is level 42, i leveled Monk to 50 specifically for it, while it may not seem useful it actually helps out the group and for every bit one can help the group then i will use it. And wow not sure why i typed Mudra i guess i was thinking of Nin earlier but you know what i meant, sheesh
lol actually Ninja is the one class that does not have cross class skills useable for other classes

I don't feel like adding in a ton of quotes from all the responses, so I'll write a general answer covering the main arguments that have been said.
Actually, first I want to say that I also think the game is fun, do not get me wrong, there are just times where I'm like "ugh, wtf, that's all?". I play with friends, we have a good time and all and I can't wait to hit 50 so I can play with all of my guildies as well (and conquer my main goal, getting to "beat" endgame content, of course).


Several of you said that it will get harder with endgame. Does that mean as soon as endgame? No increase over the course of 1-50, like "lighter" boss mechanics or something? I'm used that after the first levels dungeons gradually get a bit more challenging so one will not be completely thrown off when level 50 arrives and dungeons are like "BAM, HEAVY MECHANICS THAT'LL WIPE YA!".
So, what am I to expect, will it rapidly pick up at 50 or slowly get there during the later levels?


Regarding me playing BLM: That is just something I picked up from other MMOs, I just usually play as the mage, so when I started with FF14 I thought "Blackmage it is then!" without checking on how difficult/hard hitting the classes are. Since some people already made suggestions, I'll just use this oppurtunity to ask: I will probably finish with my BLM to 50 first and see how things will go, but the whole thing about a different class sounds very intriguing and I will definitely consider it, so what class should I pick up in that case? Which one's are challenging and ideally have high dps. Or maybe I should ask about potential, as in "if played well, damage will just skyrocket". Get my meaning? 'Cause it'shard to put into words.

So far I've heard MNK, DRG, NIN. Anyone care to give a quick overview or compare these classes? I'd be grateful.

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Originally Posted by Wizarus

I know one thing. Whatever class I'm playing as, I love to see someone using Flare.

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Care to explain?


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EDIT: Woah, didn't even see page 2, so here are some follow up answers:

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Originally Posted by Ultear_Milkovich

You dont know a single thing about BLM and already diss the job? Nice one.
I would suggest you to actually try the job before pooping on it.

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You didn't even thoroughly read my posts and still rage? Nice one.
As I said two times previously, I have not yet reached endgame and am well aware of the fact that it will pick up. I do not mean to bash BLM, as I like the class and think the concept of having to switch between high DPS/high manaburn VS low DPS/manareg is actually quite neato. To put my first post into one sentence: "is it only me or is pre-endgame quite boring, because so far it seemed like a long strechted tutorial to me?"
I would suggest not stopping to read after the first few lines before you lash out.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Yeah. Those suggestions are more for Action Style MMOs.
Not going to work in FFXIV.

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Ye, I know they aren't. As I said in a previous post, it's impossible to change the whole gameplay mechanic just like that, it would throw everythign of and change the game immensely. That's why I also suggested something like shortening GCD/casttime, just to make the whole thing a bit more fast paced (once again, maybe endgame is faster, I do not know yet.)

Well if you want to continue on with blm, Quelling and Raging Strikes are pretty much must have cross class abilities from bard. Blm are able to build up large amounts of agro if not careful. Ninja, Monk and drg are all mellee classes each with it's plus and weaknesses. Monk is about stances and keeping your greased lightning up, Ninja you must also refresh Huton bellow the 20 second mark as your dps drops significantly and dragoon is buffs, debuffs, jumps, etc. I cannot comment much on Monk as i have not touched it since leveling it to 50 but dragoon can buff the damage of Bards as example, Ninjas bring group utility. All 3 classes are close damage wise and there is a constant arguement on which of the three is highest overall dps.
And i think what Wizardry means is he likes the big kaboom sound and animation perhaps of blm using flare?

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Originally Posted by Phr3nic

Care to explain?

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BLM skill; A big flashy ball of fire.

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Originally Posted by Phr3nic

So far I've heard MNK, DRG, NIN. Anyone care to give a quick overview or compare these classes? I'd be grateful.

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So don't hold this as 100% accurate since I have leveled them and played them somewhat endgame but I am far from being a pro.

Monk - Monk has the most complex rotation when including positionals and done right you can have the highest single target dps (depending on other dps skill level). To me this is the best melee class out of the bunch in regards to enjoyability. You have more movement and once you get your buffs up you will have big hits. I would like to get the Ironworks weapons for both Monk and Dragoon. The downside is AoE is lacking for the most part. What I have seen most monks do is tab target between the marks. Buffs are key!!!

Dragoon - Dragoon imo has higher damage numbers out the gate and the rotation doesn't feel nearly as complex as Monk. It still has positionals but they aren't as impacted as Monk. The jumps are nice for gap closers and the variety of abilities is phenomenal. AoE is improved over monk and the abilities don't feel clunky for the most part. From my experience I have more TP issues on Dragoon than I do Monk.

Ninja - Ninja is fun has good burst damage and can compete with Monk for highest single target damage. The AoE is decent once you get high level but the biggest complaint I have is mudra lag. I have hit all the buttons perfectly and I will get the wrong Mudra. So this is the reason why Nin is on the cut list for me. If you no issues with lag you may enjoy Nin more than myself.

All in all, every melee class has good dps and all are competitive since great dps for each class will be determined on the skill level of each player. These are just my opinions.

You haven't even reached endgame and already complain. GL in coil.

The combat in this game sucks, but that's not why you play it. Content updates in this game are unmatched, and it's not overly aimed at casuals. Endgame is very challenging. Have yet to play an MMO where leveling was hard. That's just not where the focus is.

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Originally Posted by Phr3nic

While I haven't arrived at endgame yet

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This'll be why. :) Lemme tell you, the first time my coil group cleared T9 was one of the most adrenaline-pumped moments of my gaming life. Most of the coil fights are very fun when you do them with good people and it makes your play improve on an evolutionary scale. The Crystal Tower 24-man raids can be very fun and interesting as well, but these days (because everyone is ridiculously overgeared) you might find that people steamroll through it and don't really care about the mechanics of the fights. You really do need to have your job at level 50 to be able to use it properly though, missing just a couple of the skills and traits can detract heavily from your ability in battle.

That said, I've always been quite interested in Eorzea's history, its cities and its people. That makes the world a lot more fun to travel, and with some good FC mates even some of the most dull level 50 dungeons can be a blast. The best thing about FFXIV though is that there's always stuff to do (unless you're one of those people who have everything at 50, have cleared all coil turns and have BiS on several jobs).

If you go into endgame raiding with that mindset, you will fail utterly...

For example, what you said about BLM and dodging AoE, if you don't maximize the amount you stand still and are able to cast continuously, you're not going to put out enough DPS for the fight... Maybe if the others are doing good and you're overgeared (like people are now), you can still beat it, but good luck when the content is new...

For raids you have to have 100% focus all of the time, you have to play your job to a high degree (can't just press a couple of buttons like earlier content), and if you don't do everything right, you'll likely wipe your group.

In the expansion, they are going to add a normal mode raid, and a hard mode raid, so you'll most likely get some challenge from the normal mode, and the hard mode is going to be even harder than the current raids...

Also, if you think BRD and BLM are too boring, why don't you just play another job? Any of the melee jobs should be challenging enough, IF you are to get the DPS you need...

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Originally Posted by Phr3nic

So far I've heard MNK, DRG, NIN. Anyone care to give a quick overview or compare these classes? I'd be grateful.

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You mentioned earlier that in RPGs you typically roll mage. Running one of these will either be great or horrible for you.

Good: Change of pace; very active play-style; hectic.

Bad: "standing in the orange doom" syndrome; active play-style (you miss 1 buff and your whole rotation will suffer); hectic (remember which abilities you used that chain into other skills, using another will break your chain and making you a bad.)

Honestly, with people overgearing their jobs and it being so easy to gear other jobs with your main I have seen sooooo many fail melee. That is to say, people that main SMN/BLM/BRD and who aren't used to the playstyle of melee. I don't think anyone will disagree that for a large portion of fights melee get shorthanded compared to ranged.

I hope after you reach 50 and have had some fun running coil you'll see how fun XIV is.

The most amusing part of this thread is that the OP mains Thaumaturge, arguably the most snooze-inducing DPS base class. I personally did not start to really love BLM until I had F3, B3, and then Firestarter. Without smooth transitions between AF and UI and that main proc to manage, BLM is pretty damned boring.

Also, having Aetherial Manipulation reserved for lvl 50 is unfortunate. Maybe more BLMs would learn to use it properly if it were available while leveling.

The main issue here is that most classes don't get key parts of their rotation until 40+ which gives new players a very skewed impression of how they play. Also in terms of mechanics, most dungeons have one, maybe two at a time to deal with.

Compare that to level 50 where you typically have a moderately complex priority system to juggle, multiple cooldowns, procs and off-GCD abilities, and bosses throwing half a dozen different mechanics at you, and it's barely even the same game.

Wait for endgame stuff the game was so much fun on the beginning, now its easier, but wait for titan ex, you will hate him