Cash Shop Item: Square-Enix Crysta Token.

RMT. I keep seeing more and more threads about the "RMT problem" Heres my response and offered solution to further alleviate the issue.

Theres a demand exchanging real life currency for gil. Kill the demand by killing the buyers as well.

Or

Implement a Crysta In-game Token system. Killing RMT presence by allowing both players and SE itself to take a cut from the RMT industry

What is it?

Essentially a cash shop item that gives the player's character (of choice) a token that can be exchanged for game time. Though in the case of FFXIV, i would highly recommend that these token be exchanged ingame for Crysta, that way players can purchase other services than just game time.

For Example:

Cash shop item:

"Other Worldly Crysta Token (10,000)" ((5,000), (15,000), (20,000), (100,000)?)

This item would be purchased for $10 USD. Upon purchasing the item from the cash shop. The item will be sent to your ingame character of choice via Moogle Delivery. This item can be traded with other players at their discretion, with possibly gil as the base of monetary value. Obviously the two players will have to deliberate the worth of such token in gil value.

Very careful restrictions will have to be exclusively placed on such items to avoid exploitation. At SE's discretion.

Why Crysta and not just flat game time?
-Crysta will allow players to purchase other services available through Mog Station, server transfers, cash shop items, game time, and most of all extra retainers. This will give such token a greater demand

What are SE's advantages of implementing such a system?
-SE will take a huge cut of the RMT's market. More players will be spending more money related to the game.
-This action may discourage RMT's presence ingame and force them to seek opportunities in other games.
-More players playing!

Player advantages?
-Instead of "Buyers" risking everything by visiting shady websites, they can conduct a mostly secure transaction between SE's Cash Shop and the ingame players.
-Players that cannot purchase game time or other services through the usual methods, will have additional means of getting game time and services. Whether its travel issues, terrible bank practices, foreign work, or just being from an unsupported country.

Woes?
-increased "Merc" activity, this can see bad or good depending on what side you are on. So this really isn't a (dis)advantage. It can be considered as Pay to Win, but highly controlled circumstances, the players being the ones controlling it, the player is both the demander and the supplier in this case.
-Possibly irregular fluctuations on the Market Board. Again though highly controlled by the player base.

This is just a general mock-up of an idea to help discourage RMT activity. I know many players have a defined hatred for RMT spam ingame. If we can take a huge cut from their industry by implementing a legitimized form of Cash Shop/Gil Exchange system. The objective is to remove RMT's from the exchange of gil and leave it mostly between the players and gil.

Other games have implemented such a feature (though mostly limited as a method to pay for game time). So its already in practice in the MMORPG industry, it just depends on the company's ethics on such practice.

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Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang

Kill the demand by killing the buyers as well.

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I agree with this part. Kill all the RMT and gil buyers!

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I agree with this part. Kill all the RMT and gil buyers!

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This is my prefered choice as well, but lets face it, its a very steep slope

I was looking on the world of warcraft forums yesterday. I noticed Blizzard is doing something similar to try and battle RMT. They are coming out with a WoW Gold token which can be exchanged for gold and sub time. Thats going to put a huge dent in RMT.

Well it would need to be planned with the idea in mind that players would still buy from RMT companies if the price per gil is much cheaper.

Until RMT buyers are being punished, there's a lot of 'good' solutions that won't really work such as the ones suggested above. I mean if I can pay $100 and get 4-5 million gil from SE's crysta system or I can spend $100 and get 20 million gil from an RMT... and there's no risk of me getting punished for going to the RMT.

I'm just really disappointed that people don't want to earn their own money and that the market for players paying to win is really this big. It hurts me deep inside when I already know I shouldn't expect more than this from humanity.

http://i.imgur.com/M1B3A51.gif

We just had a gigantic thread on this topic not too long ago...

Anyways, the WoW token probably had something to do with the increase in aggressiveness the RMT has shown in the past week or so. This game will be the only P2P game left with a high population and no currrency/real money conversion system. Most F2P games have some way of selling cash shop items whether by being tradeable or a conversion system.

Don't need more than one thread for this.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ystem-to-FFXIV

So others pay so you can play, yeah, no, keep thinking, this anti RMT measure looks more like a desperate try for that part of the community in favor of apex like systems.

Fine i'll give you a chance, no vet rewards for gil subscribers, and DF and log in preference for RL money subscribers, take these conditions and i will support your idea, but don't pretend it will stop the RMT activity.

Why not just a donation system, where we can send crystas to other accounts without the ingame route?
You want to give other players playtime as a present? Fine, but not with gil.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Don't need more than one thread for this.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ystem-to-FFXIV

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This. And it doesnt help. RMT will still be able to sell their gold cheaper than whatever it sells for legally. Hasnt worked on EvE or Wildstar, isnt going to work on Warcraft, wouldnt work on FFXIV. All it does is allow players to buy gold.

We've already discussed this, No thank you!

When was RMT strictly related to third parties? As far as I was aware it is real money trading - which if not clear enough I thought was trading real money for in game currency, so these systems by their nature will /never/ be able to "kill" RMT. They themselves make an RMT permissible system.

Also when you add competition, unless utterly impossible to compete against, generally you just make things better for the consumer and still will not remove both selling parties. Basically you've made more RMT and made it cheaper as well (demand will rise), people who already did RMT will do it and people who didn't feel comfortable will do it now too. Also you can cause localized inflation bubbles (or all together depending on gil faucets and sinks - if the system somehow drove people to generate more gill to be part of the system, it could do it globally but most likely locally instead), as desirable products will be a walletsworth away and no longer be as strictly driven by in game time (if you want something you can RMT, which will change the perspective willing offer and sellers will respond by raising prices - since as you've seen in many mobile apps, there be whales and they don't like their real money). Real world profits may be driven in different directions (some of RMT's going to SE now) but it can't kill what it already is. Reality of the system is being able to buy your power without playing the game and being able to buy your game time without using your real money (which can be seen as a benefit sure, but the PR spin people put on this system is dishonest imo).

Just an aside even if third party RMT makes less money do not expect that to magically remove your /tells, the cost to set up a bot and abuse credit card disputes is insignificant (or depending on server could easily warrant a legitimate account, since disputes route could run dry, though they also hack accounts for spam and gil - which is also inexpensive).

My solution is for SE to 'open' up a gil selling website & undercut all the competition & then ban everyone that buys gil.
Then maybe after the buyers are banned the demand for buying gil will diminish and the RMT will too.
Without demand there is no need for supply.

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Originally Posted by KayoZ

This. And it doesnt help. RMT will still be able to sell their gold cheaper than whatever it sells for legally. Hasnt worked on EvE or Wildstar, isnt going to work on Warcraft, wouldnt work on FFXIV. All it does is allow players to buy gold.

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Never received a "Buy isk at isksellers.com 1bil isk = $5" message in Eve.

There are ways they can discourage RMT activities but it comes down to effecting the locks set in place in dungeons. One thing that appears to be common practice for RMT is to use BLM bots to do dungeons and be in a spot where they can't be targeted, they then kill x mob and gain gil, bypass bosses and just kill kill by stacking the mobs and spamming their spells.

One simple bypass of this would be to have it where a DF party that doesn't follow the tank/healer/DD/DD dynamic can not get gil off mobs.

Ask yourself, how many legit players would this affect? Are there really legit players who do dungeons with unique party setups just to obtain gil from the mobs? Are there players that say "Hey I could really use some gil let's go full DD and run through a dungeon?" No. So by removing gil as a reward when a Duty is setup in said fashion RMT would no longer be able to have 4 BLM party spam for gil. it would decrease their strength by 50% at least and just make things take double the time to accomplish but it would still hinder their progress by 50% which is better than nothing.

2nd lock they could place is have it where gil does not drop off mobs past x boss since RMT seem to skip bosses by forcing them to fight the boss in order to get gil from the mobs in the 2nd/3rd part of the dungeon it will again slow them down and discourage them further from this practice.

Looking back the 1st process only effects players from earning gil in a dungeon if they decide to use a setup that isn't Tank/Healer/DD/DD but again for a legit player there isn't a lot of gil to be made within dungeons, the only reason why gil can be made with such ease by RMT is because of the tactics they use, so for players it wouldn't effect them to miss out of some gil.

2nd one would not effect the player in the slightest and just add in an anti-cheat factor that forces RMT to face off against bosses in order to obtain gil from the mobs after, of course they could in essence bypass this if they leave after first set of mobs but again it just makes things more troublesome for them because by applying the above you do the following.

Weaken their dmg potential by 50%
Force them to kill bosses in order to obtain gil or
Cut their dungeon exploits by 33% (since they can only do 1/3 of dungeon before reaching boss thus being forced to leave and re-enter)

The solution is to actually ban the RMT companies and botters that we report for over 6+ months. That is Square-Enix's burden, not the community's.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Never received a "Buy isk at isksellers.com 1bil isk = $5" message in Eve.

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Oh really? Then I guess all those isk selling sites are kept running from word of mouth. Been a while since I bothered with Eve, nor do I know when you play(ed), but I can say for a fact it didnt change squat in Wildstar. Regardless, a game time token like PLEX or CREDD isnt specifically aimed at RMT spam (theoretically) but the business itself. A quick google search and youll see gold selling in Eve is very much alive. Not to mention how Eve is a very different game than Wildstar and FFXIV. Even if PLEX would have successfully killed Eve's gold selling market, I would say Wildstars results would be much more accurate to predicting the results for FFXIV.

Look, gold sellers can not only sell for less but hey offer different amounts of gold. The more you buy the cheaper it gets. If you dont need $20 worth of gold, they also offer $5... $10... what ever. You might think "oh but the risk" ... what risk? Sure, there is a risk, but just how high is it? Bots and spammers are always being reported, yet it takes months before they disappear if ever. Just how risky do you think it is for the gold buyer (an otherwise paying customer) vs a botter or RMT spam whose more than likely is on a stolen account?

SOE, now Daystar something-or-other, implemented a feature like this a few years back in EQ & EQ 2 as an attempt to strike at RMT (& those selling invalid game time codes for platinum). It hasn't been as successful as they were expecting as it, instead, only encouraged the use of RMT services.

If they want to look at an example on Economy balancing with an item shop they should really take a look at Guild Wars 2, they use a fluctuating system, where you can turn Gold into Gems, but the conversion rate depends on the over all Gold to the overall Gems in circulation. They should do the same thing.

Change the dollars in the Item Shop to Crysta only (just like you can buy Gems for real dollars for a fixed amount you could do the same with Crysta). Then you can either use the Crysta in the Item Shop OR exchange Crystal for Gil in a fluctuating amount based on how much Crysta there is to Gil. Also, you would be able to trade Gil for Crysta as well, of course it would fluctuate based on the reasons above.

The only true solution is to ban the country they're from in accessing the US/EU servers. Ex: Chinese players only play on Chinese servers.('Cause cmon, we know the RMT are Chinese.)

Pay in game to play? No denied rejected the fact that they finally cracking down on how the mog station items are used by changing the Tos by making it a bananble offence shows this won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Renik

Fine i'll give you a chance, no vet rewards for gil subscribers, and DF and log in preference for RL money subscribers, take these conditions and i will support your idea, but don't pretend it will stop the RMT activity.

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You realize the ones paying with gil would actually be putting MORE money into SE's pockets than regular subscribers, right? In WoW and EVE these tokens are sold for $20, not just the standard sub $15. That's a 33% increase in revenue.

Gil sellers don't exist in Guild Wars 2 (well they do but they are no where near the level of annoying and intrusive as the ones on FFXIV), there is a Gold(Gil) <-> Gem(Crysta) <-> Money exchange and the economy isn't broken, it actually bolsters it. So it can be don't without going crazy, they just need to have an fluid exchange rate, which isn't hard to do in a video game that already keeps record of all the ins and outs of Gil.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

You realize the ones paying with gil would actually be putting MORE money into SE's pockets than regular subscribers, right? In WoW and EVE these tokens are sold for $20, not just the standard sub $15. That's a 33% increase in revenue.

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Awesome. I totally think it's great that we should be supporting the people who need to pay their way to the top and insta-win a video game cuz their wallets are fatter than the rest of us. Hell I am such a loser for leveling mining and crafting so I could earn my own gil when the solution is so simple... >Take out my debit card > Pay for gil > win.

I would much rather see people who need to pay to win banned right away and shown that we do not want them in our games. I don't. My end game experience will actually improve with less pay to win people who fail at video games joining my parties with their paid clears pretending they are good at games.

Well Elusana_Celah its technically not your or our game. Also I'd like to know how you know people are "paying to win" because if you know without a shadow of a doubt they are paying to win then why are you not reporting them in your zealous cause? By knowing and doing nothing you might as well be joining in with those "pay-to-win" people you seem to run into.

I get you dislike the idea of any kind of real money trade, but if regulated by SE it could work and it could get rid of those pesky shouts and tells that pop up every 5 seconds in some zones. Now I'm not saying I personally would partake of purchasing gil if SE implemented it on the item shop, as I don't really have a need to, I do fine with Crafting and Gathering myself, but some people just don't like to do those things, they just want to play the fighting parts of the game, sadly you don't really make much gil from that (save for SBing, but again you need to buy/craft the items to SB...). You cannot just assume people who are not as "good" as you to be buying gil. Correlation doesn't always equal causation.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

You cannot just assume people who are not as "good" as you to be buying gil. Correlation doesn't always equal causation.

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Please don't misinterpret what I said and label me as some pathetic elitist. My post was in reference specifically to people who are definitely buying gil. NOT an accusation that people who are not good at the game are always buying gil. Unless you fall into this category then your defensiveness is warranted I suppose.

And no, I am not in favor of including 'legal' ways for people to pay to win. The gil sellers would just sell for lower than SE and the problem wouldn't be solved anyways. Unless you are punishing gil buyers there is no solution to the problem. So before we start encouraging SE to allow legal means for people to pay to win FFXIV, let's figure out how to punish the current gil buyers cuz, as I mentioned before, people will still buy from the 3rd party RMTs if the price is a lot better than SE is offering. And a 'legal means' to buy gil would encourage legitimate players to start buying gil too.

I got a problem with this. Disagree with me all you want but my views aren't changing so it's pointless trying to have a debate. I dislike people who need to pay to win a game. RMT is a form of paying to win.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

Please don't misinterpret what I said and label me as some pathetic elitist.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

My end game experience will actually improve with less pay to win people who fail at video games joining my parties with their paid clears pretending they are good at games.

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I'm sorry but to quote you that kind of sounds like an 'elitist' comment. You refer to the game as yours when it is no ones but Square-Enix's. You say your experience will improve when people who fail to play at video games joining your parties with their paid clears, you are assuming that people who are not good (fail to play at video games) are paying for their wins (their paid clears) when in fact if they are no good at video games 90% of the time is because they are just genuinely not good for no other reason then not being good.

I'm not defending RMT activity in the slightest, however the method of "Ban them all till kingdom come!" clearly does not work, as some servers are plagued with non-stop /tells and /shouts from same said RMT. You offer the suggestion of perma-insta-banning all the players who buy Gil, while at the surface that seems like an okay method (a fear method) however you don't quite understand two fundamentals here (or are just not thinking of the effects that will cause):

1) By perma-banning players on their first offense Square-Enix would be cutting into their own flow of money from subscriptions, ultimately cutting into the quality and frequency of content because they (the company) do run on a budget. Also that perma-banned player will likely have had made or has really good friends on the game, if they can no longer play together there is a higher chance that they will stop playing (and paying) to go play another of the many current MMOs in the market.
2) If you know anything of advertising and sales, companies tend to advertise when one of two conditions are met 1) a limited-time sale is happening on one or more of their products and/or 2) sales are down due to low traffic and need to increase traffic flow into their business. If Square-Enix where to perma-insta-ban offenders (players) it will result in not less RMT, but more, because those RMT customers are no longer able to shop, traffic flow lessens, and results in a heavier advertisement campaign (in the form of tells, yells, shouts, friend requests, etc)

I'm not trying to call you out in particular, as this statement, while originally addressed to you, Elusana_Celah, is for the community as a whole.

As for them being quiet about what they are planning to do, do you want the RMT (who can obviously access these forums too) to know what SE might be up to to combat them? Its like giving the battle plans to the enemy before the attack.

I'm just gonna note that paid wins are a byproduct of an elitist PF culture on lots of legacy servers that use "clear or kick" rules, so players who feel they cannot otherwise participate buy a win.

So y'know, maybe don't be a jerk, and people won't be jerks back to you? Go fig.

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Originally Posted by Meklore

My solution is for SE to 'open' up a gil selling website & undercut all the competition & then ban everyone that buys gil.

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this wont work. it will just kill the reputation of SE if they do it. which is why they don't and won't.

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Originally Posted by Krr

The solution is to actually ban the RMT companies and botters that we report for over 6+ months. That is Square-Enix's burden, not the community's.

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they are doing this. they are letting the spammers stay so they can catch the bigger fish(the caracters that are actually trading the gil). but the RMT keep buying more accounts.
the solution is what it always has been and many disagree with me but it's as simple as SE selling the gil themselves and undercutting the 3rd party RMT till it isn't worth their time anymore.
let's face facts here. there are and always have been people willing to pay their way for everything and ignore the fact it's against the ToS. so there in lies the problem that the market is there and always will be. yeah punishing the buyers might get rid of some of them but when that starts happening the RMT sellers start getting more and more careful.

so think about this in the end. if SE were to sell the gil themselves they could benefit from the cash they get from it by giving us better servers. more servers for housing. better and more DF servers.

now before you flame my post I know SE isn't likely to do this but if they did it wouldn't be as bad as the naysayers make it out to be.
the benefits of it could outweigh the negatives if they did it right.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

they are doing this. they are letting the spammers stay so they can catch the bigger fish(the caracters that are actually trading the gil). but the RMT keep buying more accounts.

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There are multiple bots - actual, honest to god bots, that generate the gil that is traded - that go unbanned for months and have been untouched for over a year, while players do surveillance on them (even going so far as to write down names and appearances). The same players that are black mage botting a year ago are black mage botting now. These bots make money by the boatload.

Meanwhile - a player who gets hacked and ends up as a spambot even once, is often suspended for months on end while an investigation determines whether or not they participated in RMT willfully. This happened to one of my FC mates.

The rationale that S-E is holding out for 'bigger fish' with the banhammer doesn't hold up for me.

No to the idea.

A token to buy game time with game currency would cause inflation. Imagine the prices people would charge for it, you know how greedy people are.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

A token to buy game time with game currency would cause inflation. Imagine the prices people would charge for it, you know how greedy people are.

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and thats one of the main reasons RMT exist in the 1 place.

The token shouldn't be able to be traded, the idea that the OP is suggesting just seems like it can be abused very quickly. However an exchange rate system build into the game could work. But a trade-able item, I don't think would be wise.

Still with this idea? I saw many thread related with the similar request. If SE implement it I quit thats for my resolve same like I do with WoW better make if free to play, people will still buying from mog station.

Maybe there is nobody buy that RMT its just the competitor trick to bring down the SE (Just my mind speculation).