Selene SkillSpeed Buff

First off and important: This is about dungeon content and not raids

I am getting into discussions with people saying to not use Selene, especially not to use Fey Light (skillspeed buff), because the addition to skillspeed will make TP users burn their TP faster.

Of course I understand that using more skills is draining more TP, but its not gone away into the air, it has acutally been used to deal more damage.

I feel like people are taking the gearing advice to not focus on speed and reflect it onto selene.

I know Selene can be trouble in longer bossfights, where you want to sustain a certain DPS/resource treshold for phases.

But leaving that situation aside, why would you be against Selenes buffs if Eos healing is not needed?
Please help me understand this, I'm perfectly willing to not activate it if it really is detrimental.

Well, it's not related to skill speed at all, but on BLM, Selene fairly frequently causes my AOE rotation to break down. The spell speed bonus, on top of the huge amounts on my gear (thanks, Ironworks!) actually causes problems with the mana ticks we get back from Umbral Ice.

As far as skill speed goes, in 4 man content I don't really think that's as big a problem. You have frequent breaks between fights for TP regeneration, and boss fights in dungeons typically have enough "go do this other thing" mechanics that your TP doesn't really go down to a dangerous amount.

I main Nin and Mnk and play them in both fcob and regular dungeons, and I can tell you: there is not a single dungeon/pull/whatever in the game that drains all your tp if you use invigorate properly, even with selene skillspeed buff, no matter how hard you aoe. This is ofc assuming you don't aoe anything less than 3 mobs and and an average i110-i120+ and thus shit dying in a timely manner though... if you step into WP HM in i90 it's clearly another story. ^^


@Sundriedrainbow

There's no UI phase in the blm aoe rotation? Unless you mean UI1 after Transpose, but at that point you're dry anyway because of flare and waiting for the tick... So yes, blm ale rotation doesn't really benefit from spellspeed (which is the reason why more and more blm's opt to use crit/det sets in aoe heavy fights like T12). However for the single target rotation this is true, you will most likely have to adjust T1 B1 in UI to T2 B1 in order to not sit dry for a while after B1 if you don't get an early tick.

Fire 3 > Fire 2 til you're done > Flare > Transpose (which puts you in UI, for those of us who haven't been paying attention) > Fire 3 > repeat

With spell speed in excess of 500, your Fire 3 will cast before the mana tick in the UI segment, putting you at 900~ mana instead of 2000~, and you basically just go immediately into Flare instead of Fire 2. The issue is, it's not completely reliable, so frequently you'll find yourself casting Fire 2 with 900 mana, which is bad, or casting Flare with 2000 mana, which isn't good. Also, I'm pretty sure going Transpose > Fire 3 > Flare is going to force you to wait for the 12 seconds of Transpose.

It's a problem. Not an insurmountable one, or even necessarily a major one, but it does exist.

Yeah I figured you're talking about UI1 after transpose, see my edit. ^^ That makes perfect sense not though.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

I main Nin and Mnk and play them in both fcob and regular dungeons, and I can tell you: there is not a single dungeon/pull/whatever in the game that drains all your tp if you use invigorate properly, even with selene skillspeed buff

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Any long-form engagement where RNG doesn't remove you from combat is going to tap out MNK after like 4m with precise Invigorate usage. t4, t8, t11 and the first half of t13 are long, uninterrupted encounters that cannot be sustained by Invigorate alone. Lucky streaks during t6, t7 and t10 have the same issue.

Since most raid groups have a BRD, this isn't an issue even with Selene. More DPS is more DPS.

As a blm who stacks SSP (currently at 643 with food) i can testify that Selene buff gives me the same boost than foe's requiem or even slightly better depending on the situation.

This has been tested a lot by myself in fights up to T11

ofc im using B3 T1 B during my mono target UI phase to max out the SSP benefit (Puros spreadsheet explains how very well)

Imo this is prolly the best buff or at least the one i prefer in terms of gameplay / feeling. Please use it any time you feel comfortable to do so

Actually if the OP doesn't mind I'd like to add coils to this topic too.

I'm currently on T11 and my raid don't want me to use Selene because of the Skill Speed buff draining TP. Something along the lines of Bard having to use Paeon will actually reduce overall DPS because he can't DPS fully himself. Has anyone tested if this really is the case? I don't mind using Eos while we're still learning the fight, but surely Selene would be the better pick when we have it on farm?

In a dungeon, i doubt you are ever going to have a situation where there is so much up-time on mobs/boss for TP users to run out of TP due to Selene.

If you dont need Eos' extra healing in a dungeon, use Selene. If people run out of TP, i think its more due to them rather than Selene.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Any long-form engagement where RNG doesn't remove you from combat is going to tap out MNK after like 4m with precise Invigorate usage. t4, t8, t11 and the first half of t13 are long, uninterrupted encounters that cannot be sustained by Invigorate alone. Lucky streaks during t6, t7 and t10 have the same issue.

Since most raid groups have a BRD, this isn't an issue even with Selene. More DPS is more DPS.

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I'm perfectly aware of mnk's max uptime with proper invig usage, but the OP stated that this is specifically about dungeons. And as I said, there is no pull that takes long enough to kill to make you completely out of tp, even with selene buff and rockbreaker usage as long as there are 3+ mobs alive. Coil is a different pony ofc.

I'd imagine people complain about this due entirely to ignorance. People are always saying how skillspeed is bad because it drains TP too quickly, but as you said that's only true in fights where you could drain your TP completely. If you're never running completely out of TP then you're just doing the same damage as before, only faster.

I tend to hate the skillspeed buff from selene not because of tp issues but at times it throws off my timing on when I reapply my dots. but thats just me. lol

the buff itself shouldnt be a big deal on dungeons. who the heck runs out of tp there anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

I'm currently on T11 and my raid don't want me to use Selene because of the Skill Speed buff draining TP. Something along the lines of Bard having to use Paeon will actually reduce overall DPS because he can't DPS fully himself. Has anyone tested if this really is the case? I don't mind using Eos while we're still learning the fight, but surely Selene would be the better pick when we have it on farm?

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I would really like to know the exact reasoning behind this too.

For Selenes Buffs to be detrimental, the slightly shorter interval of Foes for playing peon a little sooner and the impact to DPS this does to the Bard (roughly 10 DPS over a period of 4 minutes - if I recall correctly) must outweigh the gain that Selenes buffs offer.

I'm shuffeling some numbers in my head but I can't see how the Bards Damage loss is ever bigger than the DPS gain for the speed buffs.

Still :confused:

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Originally Posted by Spoekes

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I don't play melee in FCOB, so I'm not in a good position to critique my NIN and MNK, but they already request Paeon near the end of P1 in T11 because otherwise they're scraping the barrel halfway through the add phase. That's without my using Selene.

On the other hand, our BRD could simply play Paeon more frequently, but that would probably eliminate Foes'.

Since we have no issues with Enrage, I default to using Eos to help cover mistakes (yes, one or two people still have issues after months of doing the content...the nerd rage is rising.)

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I don't play melee in FCOB, so I'm not in a good position to critique my NIN and MNK, but they already request Paeon near the end of P1 in T11 because otherwise they're scraping the barrel halfway through the add phase. That's without my using Selene.

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That's what I meant in my OP, I do understand that you sometimes want to time the singing so its not peon during add phase and/or you want to make sure that foes can be played at a precise moment.

As a guy who does a fair amount of MNKing (when I'm not having to tank/heal, sigh), I don't think I've ever run out of TP on a standard dungeon boss; none of them live long enough. There's a couple Crystal Tower boss fights where I can legitimately run out of TP if it's a bad DPS group and the circumstances are right (Hein where I never get frog'd/frozen, Five-headed dragon without being the sneeze target, Cerberus when I'm on the outside), but that's about it outside of Coil.

I prefer Selene in raid. My melee also request I not use her sksp buffs. Sometimes I sneak it in anyway.

For dungeons I use Eos. With her buffed hots up I can spend more time in clerics while she keeps up the tank even in big pulls. Me spending more time in clerics makes the dungeon go faster than Selene would allow with only rouse to help me out. Eos us also very efficient at tanking adds for boss burn.