Heavensward - jobs and end game

I am starting to feel worried and anxious about the expansion. With three new jobs being added, will there be enough endgame content to gear my main job, a couple of my other favorites and some of the new jobs?

Right now, in the current gear cycles, I feel like we must pick a main and if you want to gear up more jobs, you have to wait for the end of the cycle to be able to fully gear them.

To me, this is very frustrating. BLM is and always be my main favorite job. I was playing/gearing MNK and BRD also. But then I enjoyed SCH, so my BRD is neglected. NIN came out, and I am enjoying it. But I cannot fully enjoy it and be effective with it in end game unless I neglect the other jobs I enjoy.

So now with three more jobs coming out, I am worried that in order to enjoy any of them, I will be neglecting my old favorites.

I know there are tons of people that play alts and are used to doing that because in other MMO's you need alts to play other jobs. But I love focusing on my main character. I hate that in order to work around lockouts, you have to play alts.

My only hope is that there will be more end game other than just Alexander or less restrictive lockouts and/or longer content cycles.

It would really help if they raised the weekly cap or removed the lockout on the secondary tomes as well.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

I am starting to feel worried and anxious about the expansion. With three new jobs being added, will there be enough endgame content to gear my main job, a couple of my other favorites and some of the new jobs?

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DRK is going to share gear with PLD and WAR, AST with SCH and WHM and MCH with BRD, so I don't see where is the issue.

Considering you don't need the highest ilvl gear to clear the highest ilvl content, this entire issue is moot. You can effectively play all the jobs in the hardest content by gearing the job in the previous hardest content that has already had it's gear limit removed. I realize people are on a gear treadmill and think they must have the highest ilvl, but all that does is make content easier. It doesn't mean you can't do the content with a lower ilvl.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

Considering you don't need the highest ilvl gear to clear the highest ilvl content, this entire issue is moot. You can effectively play all the jobs in the hardest content by gearing the job in the previous hardest content that has already had it's gear limit removed. I realize people are on a gear treadmill and think they must have the highest ilvl, but all that does is make content easier. It doesn't mean you can't do the content with a lower ilvl.

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Not a matter of being needed as much as it is people want to have highest ilevel, it's a matter of choice.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

Considering you don't need the highest ilvl gear to clear the highest ilvl content, this entire issue is moot. You can effectively play all the jobs in the hardest content by gearing the job in the previous hardest content that has already had it's gear limit removed. I realize people are on a gear treadmill and think they must have the highest ilvl, but all that does is make content easier. It doesn't mean you can't do the content with a lower ilvl.

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It kinda does. Have you ever seen a pf for FCoB at iLVL 110 other than when it first comes out?

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Originally Posted by lololink

DRK is going to share gear with PLD and WAR, AST with SCH and WHM and MCH with BRD, so I don't see where is the issue.

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The issue for me is that I already cannot gear those three unless I abandon a job that I really enjoy.

For me who mains SCH/WHM but also has a main DPS in BLM and just took to DRG and has BRD and a WAR who like to come out now and then... I had a problem with gearing them and figuring out the plan with the lockouts and such.

What I ended up doing was designing the jobs with the gear I wanted a head of time. I knew I was doing FCoB on SCH so all BiS Dreadwyrm parts for SCH, I didn't buy poetics for. I bought BiS poetics for the more WHM Dread pieces and used the i110 version of crafted until the Dreadwyrm stuff dropped.
My SCH, btw, wears 5 pieces of poetics.

After I was done was SCH, I moved onto BLM since that was my main DPS. I got four poetic pieces for BLM and when WoD came out, I filled in the i110 slots with that. My main healers didn't get any of that gear since they already had the better/dreadwyrm gear.

DRG came last and I only have one piece of poetics for it, but I have three WoD pieces. DRG/BRD is now the WoD dump bucket until poetics can take their places. I honestly have a lot of jobs...Cause my tank also took some WoD drops.

It's all about designing and planning out which job has which and which item is needed. I see healers entirely in i120 poetics or WoD and that's silly. That's so much time invested in one job and if you have multiple jobs, you have to determine which piece is best and then get it and then once all those pieces are done, you move on to the next job.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

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And that's a good idea if you do coil and that type of end game, but some of us strictly gear off tomes. I did coil but being so far behind my group never farmed and moved to the next turn instantly so even then I had to gear off tomes gear unless I got a lucky drop. I have since given up on raiding as it was more stress in my life than I need right now.

And some people are not lucky with coil drops and need to spend tomes on their main job. I am just frustrated that the only places I can play other jobs are in dungeons or CT. And I am also frustrated with there being only one place to get i130 gear, other than with tomes.

I just wish there were at the very least two places for i130 gear. And I just hope we will have more content in Heavensward. Or less restricted content.

But it looks like I am the only one and most people are not bothered by this. Ugh

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Originally Posted by Wobble

And that's a good idea if you do coil and that type of end game, but some of us strictly gear off tomes. I did coil but being so far behind my group never farmed and moved to the next turn instantly so even then I had to gear off tomes gear unless I got a lucky drop. I have since given up on raiding as it was more stress in my life than I need right now.

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Yeah, my group is also way behind (we haven't even beaten T13 yet). We only farm when we attempt to beat T13 as you can only do during the current loot lockouts.
But I've remained adamant in my BiS plan. If I am supposed to get it from FCoB, I will not upgrade. As an fyi for me too, I do not think ilevel is everything so I'm not an ilevel chaser. To me, sitting around i120 or i122 until I get the gear to drop isn't a deal at all.

Also, I'm not lucky at all with healer drops. I've only gotten the pants and waist to drop for me... The plan remains the same. You don't need Augmented i130 gear to do the things that are currently in this game. I'd rather gear my jobs the way I wish to. I'm luckier with SCH though that the head, feet, bracelet and technically hands are BiS for SCH in terms of poetics. Those are the ones I bought and augmented. After I had those pieces, I moved on to BLM.

The reason why I chimed in and mentioned raid situation style is the fact that the OP mentioned that they were concerned about the endgame content.

If I lived off of tomes gear like poetics, I would still pick a path that allows all my classes to have the relatively same ilevel in terms of gear before I would move on. I would just pick between poetics/WoD/crafted rather than what I currently do in Dreadwyrm/poetics/WoD/crafted.

As an example, I like to stack crit on my SCH with DET or Piety being secondary. Since I'm not doing FCoB now in this example, whichever piece has the most of either of those stats, whether it be poetics, WoD or crafted, I use that. Once I got the composition that I liked, I would use the same method and move to the next. If my SCH only used the WoD pants, I wouldn't lot on another healer piece for WoD. The next one in line would be a DPS since no other WoD piece caters to what I want exactly for my SCH. So it's a matter of which BiS you want and not getting the misc junk pieces just because you want ilevel or some such.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

And some people are not lucky with coil drops and need to spend tomes on their main job. I am just frustrated that the only places I can play other jobs are in dungeons or CT. And I am also frustrated with there being only one place to get i130 gear, other than with tomes.

I just wish there were at the very least two places for i130 gear. And I just hope we will have more content in Heavensward. Or less restricted content.

But it looks like I am the only one and most people are not bothered by this. Ugh

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It would definitely be nice to see something along the lines of what XI offered in terms of gear variety (Limbus, Dynamis, AF upgrades, etc) but I don't see that happening for a long while yet.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

It would definitely be nice to see something along the lines of what XI offered in terms of gear variety (Limbus, Dynamis, AF upgrades, etc) but I don't see that happening for a long while yet.

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Agreed, there is no variety in end game.

Here we go again with the "I want everything and I want it now" mentality.

Crazy all arounder here.... In expansion I'll have to... Level all my gatherers to 60, my crafters to 60, DoM and DoW to 60... The new jobs, make new relics for everyone.... And and.... Playing only weekends....

In expansion I'll experience the meaning of feeling like in heaven and hell at the same time!

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Originally Posted by Otoha

Here we go again with the "I want everything and I want it now" mentality.

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At least not my case, I don't mind effort, planification and sacrifice, But I want, in retribution for that, advantages.... As it is right now, it is only worth to be an all-arounder crafter, but.... In DoW and DoM it's total useles...

I hope you get USEFUL SHAREABLE level 60 skills in heavensward....And less stupid limitations to cross class skills for jobs, hoping that since there will be 3 new jobs, not classes... Hoping the base power of those skills is based in the gear of the original job, so if you take the bothering of, let's say, gear 150 a BLM, then when you use that skill with another class, it will have the 150 BLM stats....

That'd make me the happiest all-arounder ever. I may even put it in suggestions, but then... It'd start the "No, that's a bad idea just because then raids would request people to have all jobs 60 yes or yes, and it'd be a must and not an optional, we prefer to be static and have no progression aside of gear acquiring for our main!"

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Originally Posted by Otoha

Here we go again with the "I want everything and I want it now" mentality.

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Disagreeing on this one. I think what the thread is asking for is wanting more than just two ways to get the highest end game gear each update. (I say two because Bahamut Coils and Crystal Tower alternated) But, to make more then two... You need a reason for it. Right now, FFXIV's gear system is the most simplistic I've ever seen in an MMO and definitely in terms of endgame. It's "Get to accuracy cap, look for highest determination gear, look for best crit rate, anything else." As far as DPS goes, that same mixture doesn't really change besides having parry in there for tanks at some point, and having Piety in there/Skill/Spell speed for some jobs.


FFXI's gear system was so much more advanced. You had, haste sets, evasion sets, DPS sets (for say, an OT Ninja) You had weapon skill sets for macros, you had elemental staves for specific spells to add 10/15% DPS from that spell type. You had different stats boosts for different weapon skills as they all had different modifying factors.

I realize that since XIV doesn't allow for gear swaps in combat, half of that is a moot point... But, the reality is, if you wanted to be the best in XI, you had to do more then just look at an ilvl, then look at secondary stats.

The issue is, without having those diversifying factors to gear builds, XIV's gear up system will always be incredibly bland and uninspired... Which is a real shame.

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Originally Posted by Otoha

Here we go again with the "I want everything and I want it now" mentality.

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Yeah, that is SO not what this thread is about. >_>
The OP and everyone that has answered so far has been pretty clear on the fact that they'd want more endgame content in general. I'd personally love it if instead of one endgame, one alternate raid, and then tome armor, we had like, 4-5 relevant endgame complete with their different armor that all has its uses. I'd love like, 2 more different type of Towers so that I can have that gear too. Tomes armor? Gimme like, 2-3 of those too. I want this game to have so much relevant armor that content doesn't become irrelevant.

As it is right now. You do FcoB for the best gear. That's it.
If you don't raid, you do WoD or tomestone collecting. That's it.

Two major things to do besides dungeon grind. This is horribly dull and boring. The fact that ilevel makes it worst is just a point so eye rolling, it makes my eyes hurt. Ilevel > everything. That's it. Which is boring.

I want more endgame and more trials and more raids in general. I want more. Yeah, more will be added in the future but then gear from this stuff will be made irrelevant in 6 months time. The lifespan of the gear makes everything before it useless to run and everything after it, an effort for something that will be quickly devalued.

So my mentality isn't, "I want it all and I want it now", my mentality is: "I want more, I want all of it, and I want it to be relevant even down the line."

I think it's not necessarily an issue of how many avenues of endgame there are as it is about the viability of being able to keep more than just a couple of jobs competitively geared.

With the restrictions on how quickly gear is obtainable, how long some grinds are, RNG, and what progression paths are viable to various people, most people I know can only keep two or three jobs decently geared. A couple more if classes share gear, but even then, being able to keep up the weapons (which are most important) gets shaky.

For example, I'm sure a common response would be, "just farm Shiva then." But then you're dealing with RNG, and that may or may not rule out Shiva as a viable path due to time, luck, and patience. Like you could get in that party that drops 8 MNK fists in a row. Be the person who's gone 2 weeks without even seeing a BLM staff. I know I personally have other things I'd rather be doing throughout the day.

One of the original draws of this game was the freedom to swap to whatever class you want. Be anything. Play everything.
But even starting with like... Titan-HM back then, if you didn't have a character with full darklight (tomes) and/or VIT accessories, you weren't even going to survive and a lot of people wouldn't even let you into their party. Same deal with BCoB. For people who only had a couple of favorite jobs, it wasn't an issue because they could keep up with gearing fine. Anyone who was interested in more than that had to make sacrifices and pick favorites or most-needed jobs.

Content isn't quite as strict now, but the general trend is still the same, with a steady and choked pace of vertical progression and no means or time to branch out horizontally before the next tier upwards is opened and you have to race/struggle to keep your main jobs competitive with your peers.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

Considering you don't need the highest ilvl gear to clear the highest ilvl content, this entire issue is moot. You can effectively play all the jobs in the hardest content by gearing the job in the previous hardest content that has already had it's gear limit removed. I realize people are on a gear treadmill and think they must have the highest ilvl, but all that does is make content easier. It doesn't mean you can't do the content with a lower ilvl.

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Well, I play everyday, and spam everything I'm experienced at. When PF asks for iLv110 for Titan Ex, then your statement becomes null. iLv is demanded for farms and phase pushing, which is all everyone does/expect now. No one really do normal mechanics these days. We're talking 1 tank, 1 heal, 6 dps in some cases, so they want that iLv high.

Yes, you CAN do it with minimum iLv, but if my NIN is iLv123 but only WHM slot open, she's not getting in due to her iLv being less than iLv110.

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Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

FFXI's gear system was so much more advanced. You had, haste sets, evasion sets, DPS sets (for say, an OT Ninja) You had weapon skill sets for macros, you had elemental staves for specific spells to add 10/15% DPS from that spell type. You had different stats boosts for different weapon skills as they all had different modifying factors.

But, the reality is, if you wanted to be the best in XI, you had to do more then just look at an ilvl, then look at secondary stats.

The issue is, without having those diversifying factors to gear builds, XIV's gear up system will always be incredibly bland and uninspired... Which is a real shame.

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I agree. FFXI had a lot of choices for gear and didn't have ilvl. Some pieces got used for a very long time due to their utility. (rdm af comes to mind)

FFXIV basically uses ilvl as the deciding factor and its kind of sad. Everything is a one way track to getting better gear and no diversity.

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Originally Posted by madolyn

I agree. FFXI had a lot of choices for gear and didn't have ilvl. Some pieces got used for a very long time due to their utility. (rdm af comes to mind)

FFXIV basically uses ilvl as the deciding factor and its kind of sad. Everything is a one way track to getting better gear and no diversity.

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This so much.. The whole ilevel is nothing but false progress in my opinion.

alt gearing wouldn't be so bad if things like ST/Wod didn't have weekly lockouts on gear.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

I just wish there were at the very least two places for i130 gear. And I just hope we will have more content in Heavensward. Or less restricted content.

But it looks like I am the only one and most people are not bothered by this. Ugh

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That's because there are 2 places to get ilvl 130 items.

Technically even 3 if you consider that crafted accessories are effectively 130 or better.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

That's because there are 2 places to get ilvl 130 items.

Technically even 3 if you consider that crafted accessories are effectively 130 or better.

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I think the point is it would be nice to have other avenues to obtain gear. Not alternate ways to obtain the same stuff, but just more relevant end game content in general.

Yoshida already said in a PAX interview that gear in Heavensward will be more diagonally than vertically. And that crafted gear get a bigger role in endleven than during 2.x

Of course, the highest ilevel will be still from the highest raid content only.

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Originally Posted by Yurihyuga

alt gearing wouldn't be so bad if things like ST/Wod didn't have weekly lockouts on gear.

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Uh, ST don't have weekly lockout since months

if u are in a static u probably have a "2nd" job , so loot that no1 wants goes to ppl that choosed that 2nd job.

but yeah 1 job is going to be your main , even in FFXI ppl had 1 job and geared it well , some sets were shared btw some jobs (MNK/NIN/SAM , DRK/WAR/DRG/BST ect) but u still probably played that job 80% of the time and maybe a suport if none were avaliable , tanks were kinda fixed (since once u get the relic shield....)

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

I think the point is it would be nice to have other avenues to obtain gear. Not alternate ways to obtain the same stuff, but just more relevant end game content in general.

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Except Ironworks, Dreadwyrm and the crafted sets are not the same stuff, just the same ilvl (well not the crafted but fully melded its pretty on par)....

I do feel there should be a much wider variety than just 3 but those 3 aren't the same lol

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Well, I play everyday, and spam everything I'm experienced at. When PF asks for iLv110 for Titan Ex, then your statement becomes null. iLv is demanded for farms and phase pushing, which is all everyone does/expect now. No one really do normal mechanics these days. We're talking 1 tank, 1 heal, 6 dps in some cases, so they want that iLv high.

Yes, you CAN do it with minimum iLv, but if my NIN is iLv123 but only WHM slot open, she's not getting in due to her iLv being less than iLv110.

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There is not a single lockout preventing you from getting i110, endgame is currently i130.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Except Ironworks, Dreadwyrm and the crafted sets are not the same stuff, just the same ilvl (well not the crafted but fully melded its pretty on par)....

I do feel there should be a much wider variety than just 3 but those 3 aren't the same lol

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I think you missed what I was trying to say there. There has always been a Tome variant and a Raid variant. Tome gear has always had a way to be upgraded via Coil and other content to match the current highest ilvl. What would be nice is more viable options for end game that would require the completion of things outside of hunt grinding and Coil. We're talking stuff that's on par with top tier gear, coming from a different (but still equally challenging) end game activity all together.

LoTA, ST and WoD really don't count here given the fact that there are very few pieces of gear that are even worth using after you get access to a piece of 130 stuff for that slot.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

I think you missed what I was trying to say there. There has always been a Tome variant and a Raid variant. Tome gear has always had a way to be upgraded via Coil and other content to match the current highest ilvl. What would be nice is more viable options for end game that would require the completion of things outside of hunt grinding and Coil. We're talking stuff that's on par with top tier gear, coming from a different (but still equally challenging) end game activity all together.

LoTA, ST and WoD really don't count here given the fact that there are very few pieces of gear that are even worth using after you get access to a piece of 130 stuff for that slot.

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What you meant and what you wrote prior were very different than.

I've always wondered why the AF series aren't obatined like the relics.

You get the base AF when you cap the job. Then through a series of enhancement quests, you upgrade them to AF Zenith, AF Atma, AF...you get the idea.

Not only does this give a third way of gearing multiple jobs at the same time, it also gives devs a way to create different itemizations at each tier of iLv without having to squeeze out a completely new set of gear models each time.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

I've always wondered why the AF series aren't obatined like the relics.

You get the base AF when you cap the job. Then through a series of enhancement quests, you upgrade them to AF Zenith, AF Atma, AF...you get the idea.

Not only does this give a third way of gearing multiple jobs at the same time, it also gives devs a way to create different itemizations at each tier of iLv without having to squeeze out a completely new set of gear models each time.

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All I imagine with this is just a bunch of people walking around as glowing orbs of light, due to upgrading their Relic armour.