Optimistic Speculation on Specialization + Links

Dreams: All our crafting classes can go to 60. Then we specialize in one class, this unlocks a small pool of recipes that only specialists can do. But more importantly, it unlocks an ultimate cross class skill. A skill so good, we couldn't reasonably have two.

Like desynth people are encouraged to de-specialize & re up in another class as patches & markets change.

You aren't locked out of being an omni crafter. Instead, if you <3 making vanya silk you choose a specialization that makes doing those efficient. If I <3 making 30 step synths I choose a specialization that will make those fun!

Think a continuation of what they did with stat caps on off hand melds. Your off hand defines you as a crafter. It makes you unique without being limiting.

Think of the cool theory crafting!

Yoshi told me to get excited. Whether the above is accurate or not. I'm going to give this crew the benefit of the doubt.

*links didn't fit* Pangamer/crunchyroll/gamerescape interviews

If you can only unlock a "small pool of recipes" on one/some classes only, then you ARE locked out of being an omni crafter.

If the above is true, the new system will suck from my point of view atleast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

If the above is true, the new system will suck from my point of view at least.

---

I think you will be able to respec for various specialists, just like desynth. Don't like GSM's uber skill. Take a day or two and switch over to BSM.

Links:
http://gamerescape.com/2015/03/09/pa...naoki-yoshida/

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-fea...-naoki-yoshida

http://www.pangamers.com/gaming/fina...-and-crafting/

All the little things excite! Team crafting! 4 Airships that go on ventures! Crafting tome progression? Continuation of budget builds for casuals! Huge gill synch Materia melds for the gods! A promise of more depth than 2.0. The last bit, is what should get you excited. If there is one thing you don't like, there will be TONS you do like.

I'm torn, some of those links give me an impression it is more like Mastery books. On The other hand, the idea that you might get a new action, or rait, the HELPS with certain crafts, but doesn't limit you from RECIPES, sounds very exciting, which enables you to be an omni crafter, but makes it much mroe profitable to craft with a group/FC.

oooh, like specializing reduces the amount of materials that go into a Synth. Since you are a specialist, you know how to se every last piece of material provided. and turn less into scraps. That could be exciting!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squand

Crafting tome progression?

---

I don't know how anyone can see this as a good thing lol.

More weekly lockouts, this time for crafters? .....

There are already crafting tomes in the game, 30 of them (the master crafting books). Every time the master crafting books get mentioned and translated as tomes, they spark speculation that there will be DoH tomestones on a weekly lockout.

I expect the specialist system to have unique skills and limited cross class skills along the lines of DoM/DoW jobs. I don't see a way for them to limit us to one specialist craft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

I don't know how anyone can see this as a good thing lol.

More weekly lockouts, this time for crafters? .....

---

This wouldn't be a bad thing, if those crafted items were equal in ilevel, and an alternative (where you could pick different stats than a pre-made) to the max ilevel items, rather than being 10-15ilvls lower.

My optimistic speculation:
-Specialization allows you to combat with said crafting class. Weaver will allow you to use Cactuar abilities, and ''mending'' a channeled form of HP restoration. Job will be ''Cactuar'' granting you the appearance of an actual Cactuar. Job abilities will be ones such as 1k and 10k needles. LB3 will be 100k needles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darra

This wouldn't be a bad thing, if those crafted items were equal in ilevel, and an alternative (where you could pick different stats than a pre-made) to the max ilevel items, rather than being 10-15ilvls lower.

---

If crafted gear was equal ilvl to top level gear, it would be BiS every single time. It's very often comparable, occasionally situationally better than gear 20 levels up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If crafted gear was equal ilvl to top level gear, it would be BiS every single time. It's very often comparable, occasionally situationally better than gear 20 levels up.

---

It wouldn't be bis every time, if you removed the materia slots. Or by leaving the materia slots in, it'd give players the chance to make different gear sets, rather than forcing everyone to wear the same, or be gimped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darra

It wouldn't be bis every time, if you removed the materia slots. Or by leaving the materia slots in, it'd give players the chance to make different gear sets, rather than forcing everyone to wear the same, or be gimped.

---

If no materia slots, then it would be BiS in many cases, and with the materia slots players would be forced to wear it, or be gimped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

If no materia slots, then it would be BiS in many cases, and with the materia slots players would be forced to wear it, or be gimped.

---

Why would it be best in slot without materia slots? Wouldn't that depend on what the stat choices were for the token and raid drop gear? It'd essentially be another alternative for stat combinations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibyll

Why would it be best in slot without materia slots? Wouldn't that depend on what the stat choices were for the token and raid drop gear? It'd essentially be another alternative for stat combinations.

---

Yes, that's why it would be BiS in many cases. SE has made it clear that the top gear for the game isn't going to be available at the MB. If everyone was expected to buy 3-4 pieces of gear at 5-10M each every time they raise the ilvl, RMT would be much worse than it currently is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Yes, that's why it would be BiS in many cases. SE has made it clear that the top gear for the game isn't going to be available at the MB. If everyone was expected to buy 3-4 pieces of gear at 5-10M each every time they raise the ilvl, RMT would be much worse than it currently is.

---

Actually, I was initially quoting someone saying they didn't want weekly lockout on crafting materials. I was saying it wouldn't be bad if it was an alternative to the weekly tomestone gear, so you'd only be able to make the item for yourself, so having items crafters make for themselves & untradable, would be a viable alternative. If you aren't already a crafter, you would get less options yes, but I'm fine with that, seeing as those who do not raid now can not get full bis anyway, you'd not be creating a new situation.

As for bis, in general I think it's a silly concept. If all secondary stats were equal, then you could for example, play a spell speed scholar, instead of being crit spec like 100% of the other scholars. It would create some diversity, and make it so that no-one, crafter, raider, tomestone farmer, would have anything better than anyone else.

Personally a weekly lockout in crafting in any form, even through things like "you get to craft this at 300% efficiency/production rate once per day" is disappointing. World of Warcraft did that ages ago and it was just bland.

Crafting for me (and a few people I know) is content that gives a lot of "freedom". It's something that people can just bury themselves in for days and weeks on like how real professional craftsman do. Now come and put a cap on it and tell a professional craftsman, okay, you may only work on this thing for 20 hours a week, and the only reaction would be "WTF?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Yes, that's why it would be BiS in many cases. SE has made it clear that the top gear for the game isn't going to be available at the MB. If everyone was expected to buy 3-4 pieces of gear at 5-10M each every time they raise the ilvl, RMT would be much worse than it currently is.

---

Whoever said that a crafted piece of gear had to be sellable? Couldn't it simply require a mat that was BoP from the raid and required a "Request Crafter" option to be able to get the item without doing it yourself? Now you have a 3rd stat option for end game gear that is relevant, crafters feel useful, and high end raid gear isn't bought on the market board.

More links and happy speculation!

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ast_interview/
At the bottom he talks about being able to do everything and HAVING to do everything to be able to do anything. I think, that's a good note, and am glad they are looking at ways to tweak it. Though I think a part of the problem is with the mindset more than the system. People have trouble understanding that they don't have to have BiS to enjoy this game.

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/03/13...planned-au-ra/
Very last paragraph!

I want to glamour/design MB craftables! *fingers crossed*

I would want to know what each of these level 100 top tier cross-class skills were ahead of time. That way I would have a better idea of what class I would want to level to 100.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by uberrod9

I would want to know ahead of time.

---

Until then imagination station! (All ideas below, good bad or otherwise are published in the public domain. I release all rights to them.)

GSM:
50cp turns any 40 durability synth into an 80 durability synth.
CRP:
0cp, use only once per day, converts stacks of IC, into a 30 minute control buff, 3 control for ever stack converted
ARM
0cp, use only once per day, converts stacks of IC, into a 30 minute Craftsmanship buff, 3 craftsmanship for every stack converted
BSM
180cp, swap progress in HQ with progress in synth completion
CUL
0cp, when you create 10HQ items in a row, a +10 control buff is bestowed upon your FC mates for 24 Eorzean hours.
LTW
0cp, when you create 10HQ items in an eorzean day reduce sales tax by 1% for 24 Eorzean hours.
ALC
180cp 10% chance a successfully completed HQ synth will turn into X rare item.

Thank you for making this thread, Squand. The links have been very helpful for me and your willingness to give the designers the benefit of the doubt is a refreshing change of pace from the black hole of negativity and assumptions that is the other thread.

At this point, there is enough information out there to start making some halfway-educated guesses at what they may be doing. Here is what we know so far:

1. Current crafting system is too hardcore. Original intent/concept of armoury system was "can be anything," but with crafting is has turned into "must do everything." New systems are intended to return to original concept.
2. At level 60, you can become an apprentice under your guildmaster, which will grant new skills and recipes.
3. There will be a new token-based system for crafters, in some ways similar to tomestones. These will be earned through a crafting activity.
4. Crafted gear will not always be inferior to dungeon drops.

It is very important to try to understand the intent of the designers. At my workplace, we have a saying: "Assume positive intent." If you start with negative assumptions of intent (e.g. to limit/punish hardcore crafters), then all your subsequent assumptions will be negative (e.g. OMG! They will ruin everything!). When I read the interviews, I am more interested in the why than the what, because in the absence of details, you will make better assumptions if you understand the why.

Based on these interviews (mostly the Famitsu), I have identified 3 goals the designers had:
1. To make crafting less hardcore and no longer require a player to level all crafting classes just to be able to do one of them.
2. FC crafting, which will require more than one person to work together.
3. To end the era of crafted item inferiority to dungeon drops.

I don't know about you, but I think all three of those sound like great things. I didn't find any language supporting the idea that there was any intent to nerf omni-crafting or punish dedicated players.


First, the skills granted by the Specialist system: I believe the point of the skills is to enable single-class crafters to have the capability to make top level recipes HQ. If they wanted a single-class crafter to be able to make a high level recipe under a Specialist system, they could have done it two ways: 1) Make the recipe easy enough that cross class skills are not needed and gate the recipes behind the Specialist system. 2) Use Specialization to increase crafting ability for the single-class crafter to the point where it is attainable without cross class. It seems they have opted for option #2. By that, we can reasonably infer that there will be plenty of new recipes that will NOT be gated behind the Specialist system. As usual, these recipes will be too difficult for a single class crafter to HQ without the new skills, but still doable by us hardcore omni-crafters.

In that case, the new skills will not be cross-class because the point is to increase capability for the one class. The skills will likely not be anything exotic like the level 50 skills, but more likely something more straight forward (like Inner Quiet 2 or Super Advanced Touch) and likely the same across all the different classes.


As for the new recipes, I believe this has to be taken together with the concepts of FC crafting and the new token system.

Within the context of FC crafting, it is pretty safe to assume that some or all of the new FC house and airship recipes will be gated behind the specialist system to prevent one person from being capable of doing everything by himself.

Within the context of the new token system, stop and think a minute about all the token systems we have had so far, be it tomestones, Silver Brocades, stuff for Lucis tools, etc. These have always been untradeable items earned by doing an activity, which can be exchanged for an untradeable reward. Since they have indicated that crafted equipment should not always be inferior to drops, I am putting two and two together and predicting that the new tokens you earn from crafting will be redeemable for untradeable materials that can be used to craft untradeable BiS or near-BiS equipment. There is a good chance that those recipes will be gated behind the Specialist system, although it is possible the recipe gating may only be for FC crafting.

I don't expect sell-able items to be gated behind the Specialist system as there is no reason to do that based on their stated intentions. Sell-able equipment will likely be the same 10-25 ilvls inferior that we are used to.

So in summary:
1. Omni-crafters will still have the same level of capability to produce sellable goods they do currently.
2. New token-based system for crafting will be a gateway to good equipment that you can make for yourself only.
3. Skills granted by Specialist system will allow non-omni-crafters to be capable of making top level recipes HQ.
4. Recipes granted by the Specialist system will be primarily for FC crafting and may encompass the untradeable top level equipment as well.

i wish that the specialist recipes are only end products. gear/weapons/tools.

and not mats.

no Wootz Ingot plz lol. or another case of terminus putty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Empty-handed

i wish that the specialist recipes are only end products. gear/weapons/tools.

and not mats.

no Wootz Ingot plz lol. or another case of terminus putty.

---

You mean you didn't like unlocking 3* and 4* BSM Master books to find your only recipe was Wolfram Ingots and Wootz Ingots?

I hope to see recipes that don't require so many rare items to produce or has outrageous progress/quality requirements. Barriers to entry are the LAST thing this expansion needs in any aspect.

I wonder, though, if the Specialization system will have sub-categories in 3.0 or future updates. I can see the following being possible (I'm stealing some of this from XI for lack of better terms):

*CUL: Raw Fish Handling/Patissier. I can certainly see sushi making an appearance in XIV as well as some advanced pastry recipes
*WVR: Advanced Needlework. What's to say there won't be high-end mage gear that requires more intricate stitching (Noble's Tunic, anyone?)
*LTW: Tanning Expertise. Let say there may be a new version of Alumen that again has deodorizing properties and can work with new types of leather (Buffalo? Snake?)
*ARM: Chain-linking/Plating. If there's going to be new armor that will surpass Dungeon gear, you can bet they could require more advanced expertise in chainwork and/or platework.
*ALC: Alchemic Ensorcellment/Iatrochemistry: I can see the Mega-/X-Potions being part of recipes that make them even more potent. I can also see recipes for the Machinist's robo-weapons (attachments, perhaps)
*BSM: Gunmaking/Toolwork: with Machinist, I can see high-level guns requiring advanced construction. Same case for DoH/DoL.
*CRP: Finishing. I'm guessing new furniture/housing parts/weapons will require a technique that prevents wood from warping or peeling.
*GSM: Advanced Gemology: Higher-level accessories may certainly require more complex gems to be made, without flaws.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

snip

---

That kind of drilled down depth could have a lot of appeal. But like a lot of others, the gate to be super high, rather than a wall. I want people to not be super specific because doing everything is just too hard core, not because they literally can't.

A question for people reading this thread, "How long do you think it will take to get one crafting class to 60?" How did you guess your answer? Does anyone want to be first on server?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squand

A question for people reading this thread, "How long do you think it will take to get one crafting class to 60?" How did you guess your answer? Does anyone want to be first on server?

---

I would say the 2nd day of early access for my main, about 2-3 weeks for the mules, to have all crafts at 60.

100 leves won't take too much time to knock out, and I have stockpiles of 1 star materials. It's just a matter of when I unlock the leves, and decide to do them. The mules will level off daily GC and Ixali, 2-3 weeks should take care of them.

Thanks for all the links. It sounded to me like the new crafting token system would be akin to what we have now, though implemented a bit differently. Basically you can earn tokens (though he did jokingly say Allagan tomes of crafting) through some method to purchase gear (though perhaps materials) that would be pretty good, but the best gear would still be crafted and melded (like our 2 different artisan sets now). Of course those both use a token system, just with different limitations.

As much as I like being able to do everything, I think that the introduction of stricter (though not permanent) specialization would really help the economy. To me it sounded like gatherers will have to choose which areas they want to gather especially rare items from (and presumably not turn around and change to another area immediately) and crafters can specialize in a particular discipline (or all of them, just not simultaneously) for the highest end items.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nutz

As much as I like being able to do everything, I think that the introduction of stricter (though not permanent)

---

They're just dangling a carrot in front of you to appease your desire to WANT the option to change.. But know that you most likely WILL NOT change your specialization once chosen.

Think about how many people change GCs, how many people level down desynth and choose a new desynth class etc..

The option's already there for many elements of the game so it gives people a false sense of diversity, but at the end of the day, 99% of the populace will NOT be switching back and forth. People will either opt to make alts to cover the specializations or compete in their own cutthroat market for their share.

There is a more thorough/accurate translation of the Famitsu interview on Bluegartr:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...29-Translation

Yoshi was very clear that at the heart of the changes is a return to the original Armoury system wherein a class can be viable by itself without having to level 7 other classes with it (do you have to level every single DoW to 50 to be able to raid on one of them?). If you want to level them all, you can, but if you only want to level one, you can do just that. Yoshi is basically admitting that the hardcore implementation of 3-4* crafting got out of hand and they are moving away from that. I think it is important that we keep that in mind as we speculate.

Some things that are clear in this translation:
1. There will be two types of tokens tentatively called "red coins" and "blue coins." (It is not 100% clear, but it is reasonable to assume one token will be for crafting and the other for gathering.)
2. Tokens can be used to acquire equipment as an alternative to the hardcore max-melding we are accustomed to (which will still be a viable option and a faster route to the top).
3. Tokens can be exchanged for items of some sort. (This mechanism is presumably there to give some sort of use to these things for people who have the gear already.)

It seems the token system is primarily concerned with helping the casuals gear up. This seems similar to the Artisan turn-in gear, although the tokens will probably be a little easier to make. I predict we will see a return to class-specific gear, at least for the token stuff (I could see the melded gear going either way).

My previous prediction about near BiS crafted battle gear being tied to the token system and untradeable doesn't sound plausible in light of the stated uses for the tokens.

The Crunchyroll interview stated:
"Some of the recipes in Final Fantasy XIV are extremely difficult to achieve or attain. We're also working to make sure that even someone who is casual crafter will be rewarded as well. So with launch of Heavensward, you'll still be able to take on the challenge of difficult recipes, but we want to give players the option to take things a little bit at the time. Strengthen your equipment and then eventually be able to tackle those harder recipes."

Looks like the difficulty curve will be designed such that hardcore crafters can start tackling the new recipes pretty quickly and it will be a challenge, which we are quite accustomed to by now lol. Casuals will need to gear up with tokens or else it will be too difficult.

Casual Crafter.. thats an oxymoron if I ever heard one.. basically they opened pandora's box with crafting and are now trying to "fix" it.. gl..now I'm going back to leveling my alts.. I say good day to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whatever

Casual Crafter.. thats an oxymoron if I ever heard one.. basically they opened pandora's box with crafting and are now trying to "fix" it.. gl..now I'm going back to leveling my alts.. I say good day to you.

---

Would you really level 7 alts just to omnicraft ?

Nah.. that be too much work.. I'm planning on leveling 2.. that way it will open up some market options later in the future.. they can cover what my main won't :D

The Reddit translation of the Famitsu interview says:
"With the new system, once you're at 60, you can then become an apprentise to each respective guilds' guildmaster. You'll gain new skills and recipes by becoming a meister/specialist. You can have more than one trademeister but there'll be a delay before you're allowed to switch."

I have a new hypothesis. I am fairly optimistic that some of this will be right because it seems consistent with both the stated mechanics and the stated intent of the developers (return to the armory system concept of being able to do any class without being required to do all of them).

After reaching level 60, you can apprentice under a guild master. You can only apprentice under one at a time and you can switch masters. Quests for new tokens may possibly be handed out by your master. There will be some sort of progression with each master. Progress is retained with the old master after switching (think beast tribe reputations, not desynth).

Skills and recipes are acquired through progression. New recipes are basically a replacement for the master book system. Skills are class specific and intended to give casual/single-class crafters a fighting chance at making top level recipes. Recipes and skills are retained after switching masters.

Outside of the specialization, I'd like to see them give crafters a reason to eat craftsmanship and control food. Currently these stats act as nothing more than an "accuracy" cap in the sense that once you hit the minimum there is really no reason to invest into raising them.

And yes, I am aware you can cut off on an extra hit to your progress bar by adding a little extra craftsmanship, but there is hardly a decision that goes into that. Up until the chocobo apron, the off-hand has really been the only piece of gear that you can't max meld so it's not like you are giving up CP to be able to reduce the progress steps.

I'd just like to see crafting branch out to have more then just one meld option and more than just one strategy to synths. Spamming HT until you get 11 stacks of IQ gets pretty old over 8 DoH classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibyll

snip

---

Yeah, it's kind of funny that I'm worried about getting locked out of recipies. From a game play perspective. 4* Cul plays exactly like 4* Wvr. The only difference is the name of the item you get. I do a lot of the same rotations day in and day out. So yeah, I'd like to see varied strategies per class.

Also, I wonder if there will be any UI tweaks. I'd like to see the marketboard become easier to read. Perhaps the could put the lowest price currently listed on the same page as the item your updating?

I have speculation, but it's not optimistic ha.

I foresee more class-specific gear that will be mandatory for new recipe synthesis, and will require time-restricted materials to craft (think oaknots 2.0). This system is practically already in place, just imagine if ehcatl sealants were untradeable and all 4-star recipes required untradeable Artisan Offhand.

I'm sorry! /bow

/runaway

E

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenosan

I have speculation, but it's not optimistic ha.

I foresee more class-specific gear that will be mandatory for new recipe synthesis, and will require time-restricted materials to craft (think oaknots 2.0). This system is practically already in place, just imagine if ehcatl sealants were untradeable and all 4-star recipes required untradeable Artisan Offhand.

I'm sorry! /bow

/runaway

---

More class-specific gear: yes. Mandatory and time gated? Probably not. In one of the interviews, Yoshi explained that you can get gear from the new crafting tokens and this was an alternative to our current hardcore melding system, which will still be there and will be the fastest way to gear. I feel pretty confident stating the token gear will be class specific. The melded gear: I don't know if they will go specific or all classes.

Edit: I would be fine with class specific because I really enjoyed every class looking unique (Lord knows they didn't play unique so the look sure was nice). Even though I have the full Artisan set, I actually kept my AF crafter gear and still use it as my normal stuff unless I am doing 4*.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by giantslayer

snip

---

So you mean like DoW/DoM gear? Token gear is better but crafted + melds is faster if you want to go that route?

I agree. I was disappointed when I saw the artisan gear. It's bad enough all crafters play the same, but having them look the same? :S

At this point, I welcome any and all gates, provided it doesn't lock me into one specific class. If I have to get 8 sets of gear and either use meld/token to get'em all ready. Fine by me, I just don't wanna have to work on my alt to be ready to take on more than 1 class.


Hopefully tonight's patch provides us with some insight of how the expansion and specialization system will pan out. They can't just drop a bomb like that and not tell us the details :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sibyll

So you mean like DoW/DoM gear? Token gear is better but crafted + melds is faster if you want to go that route?

---

The impression I got was acquisition of the gear would be very similar to Soldiery and Poetics. It was clear that their intention was to create a slower, less-hardcore way to gear up DoH. As to which is better, it wasn't clear. I suspect they will be close enough it won't matter much (like AF vs current Artisan turn-in gear).