Bard Final Coil Dps?

I currently average 435dps in t10, t11 about 400, t12 400, I averaged those numbers with all Ironworks gear with the exception of the bard wod chest piece (I currently received the dreadwyrm earring and bracelet this week). My question is are those numbers decent based on the gear I was using (my ilvl is 129, zeta bow crit/det)?

I suck as BRD. I played it from September 2013 until about two weeks ago, and my damage suck. I do not have the right to let you know if your damage is good.

haha no problem :)

400 looks good, not the best but still decent.
With training I think you will be able to push 450 on T10 and a bit more on t11-t12 but you're doing almost the same numbers as our bard who has a similar gear so I guess you don't have to worry about your dps ;)

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

400 looks good, not the best but still decent.
With training I think you will be able to push 450 on T10 and a bit more on t11-t12 but you're doing almost the same numbers as our bard who has a similar gear so I guess you don't have to worry about your dps ;)

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Also got similar gears and numbers mate. As this guy said, not the best but can easily be improved upon.

Hrm, your numbers could be higher. With your gear and weapon, you should be averaging around 450 DPS. How often and long are you singing Mage's Ballad or Army's Paeon? Do you make the most out of Barrage and your auto-attacks in general? How often do you get KO'd during a fight? Are those numbers from continuous parses?

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Originally Posted by SlyRoyale

Hrm, your numbers could be higher. With your gear and weapon, you should be averaging around 450 DPS. How often and long are you singing Mage's Ballad or Army's Paeon? Do you make the most out of Barrage and your auto-attacks in general? How often do you get KO'd during a fight? Are those numbers from continuous parses?

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I don't know, we need to see the OP's gear. I average around 470 on t10 (I got 480 on my last run), and 450-470 on t13 (could be better, trying to optimize the add phase). It's pretty difficult to push past the 450 threshold on both 10 and 11 if your group needs a good amount of Paeon, which will come down to how fast your group is pushing phases.

@OP: T11: Are you attacking the sphere or cube? Are you strafing in the last phase? Finally, when are you singing Paeon and for how long? Those are the three biggest factors of increasing dps in 11.

The most important factor is if you have a DRG and NIN. It's a pretty considerable increase in DPS. THEN we can tell where you stand.

My BRD averages about 515 for T10 and close to 500 in other turns and he thinks it's low because we don't really focus on his numbers.
One of my BRD friends get's 530+ in T10 because his group caters a bit more to him.

If you wanna see a pretty big spike in damage in BRD damage here's my tips.
Multidot the adds in T10, that's a lot of damage. Also obviously sing Foe's at the start and by the time the 2nd Adds are about die you can sing Paeon and I'd recommend to Battle Voice it to get that TP burts and sing less. That should be the only song you should have to sing in the entire fight. Time your singing when you have no cool-downs up and that should be it.

When I compare this gearset http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PXIH which, as far as I can tell, is the one you used. Against my t10 gearset http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/PTEH and calculate expected output from each set i get

1.02405594318

as the ratio of yoursetsdps/mysetsdps. So you should do approximately 2.5% more dps than I do. This previous week I parsed 532 dps in t10 with a dragoon and no ninja. 2 weeks ago I parsed 513.47 dps with a ninja and no dragoon.

By my math you should be able to do 525 dps with a ninja and 545 dps with a dragoon (on a good parse). I sadly don't have any recent dragoon+ninja parses to compare or any nodrg+noninja.

Regarding your stuff, it is a bit low...
Actually, I would say you can improve by ~30 per turn without any problem. More if drg-nin as it has been said before.

Hello, I didn't have the dreadwyrm earring and bracelet when i cleared t10 and t11, I'll be able to see that difference this week. But I see from the comments I still got a ways to go, I'll try to cut down to 2 songs per run, I currently sing about 3-4 songs for each run.

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Originally Posted by Nocturcity

The most important factor is if you have a DRG and NIN. It's a pretty considerable increase in DPS. THEN we can tell where you stand.

My BRD averages about 515 for T10 and close to 500 in other turns and he thinks it's low because we don't really focus on his numbers.
One of my BRD friends get's 530+ in T10 because his group caters a bit more to him.

If you wanna see a pretty big spike in damage in BRD damage here's my tips.
Multidot the adds in T10, that's a lot of damage. Also obviously sing Foe's at the start and by the time the 2nd Adds are about die you can sing Paeon and I'd recommend to Battle Voice it to get that TP burts and sing less. That should be the only song you should have to sing in the entire fight. Time your singing when you have no cool-downs up and that should be it.

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How many adds is it recommended to multi dot?

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

I don't know, we need to see the OP's gear. I average around 470 on t10 (I got 480 on my last run), and 450-470 on t13 (could be better, trying to optimize the add phase). It's pretty difficult to push past the 450 threshold on both 10 and 11 if your group needs a good amount of Paeon, which will come down to how fast your group is pushing phases.

@OP: T11: Are you attacking the sphere or cube? Are you strafing in the last phase? Finally, when are you singing Paeon and for how long? Those are the three biggest factors of increasing dps in 11.

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I play 4 songs, 1. foes at start, paeon before adds, ballad after killing egg, foes at 20% boss hp, I attack the sphere (one thing i havent done is dot the cube, does that help increase dps a bit?).

T10 DoTs on adds:

For Phase 2 adds, I start with DoTs on the daughter in the group we decided to kill first, then the son on the same side, then apply them on both adds on the other side and when I come back to the daughter I started on, it is usually low enough to use Misery's End on.

If the add is less than 50 to 60% HP I don't bother with reapplying DoTs and just burn it down. Your mileage may vary based on other things like whether you have a BLM or a SMN (with a SMN you have more uptime on DoT damage but with a BLM things die too quickly for DoTs to run their course), but you should be able to get the initial set of DoTs on all four adds.

For Phase 4 adds, I don't apply initial DoTs on the daughter in the first kill group due to caster lb bringing it down to half health and the rest of the party burning it down too quickly for the DoTs to be worth the tp. I just DoT the son in that group and both adds in the second group, followed by the third set of adds after the tank has aggro on them. I can usually refresh the DoTs on the third set of adds without them dying before the DoTs run out.

T11:

I sing Paeon with Battle Voice before or during the add phase and turn it off when the battle voice buff wears off. This is enough to top people off (MNK/DRG/BLM/BRD) until their next Invigorate CD at the very least. I usually don't need to sing ballad unless the healers needed to resurrect someone, or if there is a SMN in the group who uses miasma/DoTs on the egg while damaging the Cube. DoTting the cube does increase your dps but it may skew the timing on killing both adds as close to each other as possible. I have the cube set as the focus target and only DoT if it is falling behind relative to the sphere.

In the last phase, only use your buffs (especially Barrage) after a round of Seeds when you are back within attack range of the boss, especially if your party does not strafe around Kaliya's hitbox to avoid them. This will maximise the effect of buffs on your dps by not losing damage when moving out of range for the seed spread. Also, don't use repelling shot in the last phase.

T12:

Keep an eye on Bennu spawn times so that you can reapply DoTs on the Phoenix before you swap over to the Bennu, which should be just before the Bennu spawns if timed right.

Do you run blue fires? If your group is amenable, the most efficient way to do phase 2 is for the Bard and BLM/SMN to juggle brand, while the SCH does blue fires. But most people just expect the Bard to do it so, whatever.

When do you pick up the debuff? I tend to pick it up at the end of the red fire cast and start running towards the middle of the arena (blue fires are usually dropped at 6 O'clock) so that I can get to the red fire asap. I continue to use Straight Shot/Heavy Shot/Bloodletter when I have the debuff and use buffs and DoTs only after the debuff is gone as I don't know if the debuff applies its effect to DoT ticks (I know it stunts the initial damage on application) the same way buffs do (as a snapshot of when they are applied), so why take the risk.

I sing Paeon with Battle Voice during the Transition to P3 until BV wears off. I sing ballad during P3 if the healers need it, else I sing it for 30 seconds during the transition to P4 and Paeon/Ballad as needed during the AoE dodging phases in P4 when there is nothing to attack anyway.

Don't stay too far away from Phoenix for P4. If you're at max range to begin with and you have to move further to avoid a pinion that is valuable dps lost.

About iLevel and Gear:

I think stat composition on gear is more important than iLevel, if we only consider items in the i110 to i130 range. You'll find most bards try to maximise Crit and Det gain whilst minimising Dex loss after meeting the accuracy cap when they plan their gear sets. Maybe you can optimise your gear along the same lines.

So far I haven't seen anyone making a reference on whether OP gets any wild charge or not.

Just want to make a fair point by saying that typically BRDs at this point in time and gear can pull above 500DPS in a good run (with at least a NIN, DRG parses will be slightly higher) without getting targeted for charge, in a reasonable short run of less than 8mins (preferably 7mins or less), playing 2 Paeons only (a third Paeon might be required if your run exceeds 7.5mins I suppose). You should not be required to Ballad in this run anymore but again if shit happens or your healers are bad at MP management then playing Ballad will drop your DPS.

There is dps what bard should do.

http://i.gyazo.com/332fe45456df0a537ae39a033bcf5af4.png

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Originally Posted by Sunako

There is dps what bard should do.

http://i.gyazo.com/332fe45456df0a537ae39a033bcf5af4.png

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Ooh look, thats my friend's group. Also considering group composition and that I know hamtaro sunflowerseed has a zetabow I'd say that no, thats definitely not how much dps a bard should do in t10. sub 6 minute duration, ninja + dragoon + i135 crit det weapon, I'm honestly not sure if he even has to sing 1 paeon. That might have been a bad parse for him but im fairly confident that with his set and that group he should be doing 560+.

The ninja(odolicious), scholar, pld, war, whm, and drg tho. Those are good fking parses.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

There is dps what bard should do.

http://i.gyazo.com/332fe45456df0a537ae39a033bcf5af4.png

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I'll just leave this here...

http://i.gyazo.com/8305e37bf957c8ffe885340713ce4c5c.png

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Originally Posted by valsemiel

I'll just leave this here...

http://i.gyazo.com/8305e37bf957c8ffe885340713ce4c5c.png

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Impressive. I've also hit 540 in a MNK + NIN config. No DRG.

Regardless, I think with a i135 weapon at least 500 should be expected with neither NIN or DRG, and it should only go up from there if you have either or both.

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Originally Posted by valsemiel

I'll just leave this here...

http://i.gyazo.com/8305e37bf957c8ffe885340713ce4c5c.png

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sexyyy

See, 560+, spot on estimates np, the bard could probably push his numbers a little higher if you didnt have a blackmage, I doubt hes getting wonderful multidots in add phases, so thats gotta be pretty close to optimal. Also with how short that fight duration is he doesnt get the 6 minute super buff lineup so hes actually kinda losing out on the cheesy burst that happens a little bit later in his buff rotation.

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

sexyyy

See, 560+, spot on estimates np, the bard could probably push his numbers a little higher if you didnt have a blackmage, I doubt hes getting wonderful multidots in add phases, so thats gotta be pretty close to optimal. Also with how short that fight duration is he doesnt get the 6 minute super buff lineup so hes actually kinda losing out on the cheesy burst that happens a little bit later in his buff rotation.

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But if the fight extends to approximately 6.5mins which he gets to enjoy the super buff, that means that he would be required to play at least 1 Paeon for the group and with extended length of battle, the 6th min super buff benefit might eventually even out somehow, I guess.

Nonetheless the 566 parse is damn good.

Just a side note... not sure if you guys wants to continue openly posting parses here because you can get a 10 days ban from forums from it lol (I got banned before for that).

560.....xc

Wow. Bards need a nerf if they can push 560 dps. Best burst and support mixed in with second best sustained as a range mobile dps is asinine.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Wow. Bards need a nerf if they can push 560 dps. Best burst and support mixed in with second best sustained as a range mobile dps is asinine.

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Theres 1 bard reported doing 560.....and u want a nerf for the class? =_=

I agree classes should be balanced around near perfect play, but come on....

You also have to take into account, for a bard to reach that height, he has to put his support ability on the side as much as possible. No healers crying for mp. Riad dps so high extremely little paeon needed. 2nd battlevoice used on paeon and not on foe requiem. This requires content to be over geared and steam rolled by people who can do it with their eyes closed. This parse really doesn't mean as much as you think.

Fair enough for bards to be able to push it a bit when their support isn't needed. At the end of the day, they are a dps too, with support ability. Should we nerf schs who stay in cleric stance an entire fight who let the whm solo heal? no.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Theres 1 bard reported doing 560.....and u want a nerf for the class? =_=

I agree classes should be balanced around near perfect play, but come on....

You also have to take into account, for a bard to reach that height, he has to put his support ability on the side as much as possible. This requires content to be over geared and steam rolled by people who can do it with their eyes closed. This parse really doesn't mean as much as you think.

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It's also 560 w/ the 2 melee that help buff BRD damage the most. :P

Uh, in that 560 parse they were using the adds stack method. you can tell from the BLM and WHM DPS. I don't think 620+ on a blm is possible without the adds stacking. Even on my perfect run, I can only hit 590-600.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

But if the fight extends to approximately 6.5mins which he gets to enjoy the super buff, that means that he would be required to play at least 1 Paeon for the group and with extended length of battle, the 6th min super buff benefit might eventually even out somehow, I guess.

Nonetheless the 566 parse is damn good.

Just a side note... not sure if you guys wants to continue openly posting parses here because you can get a 10 days ban from forums from it lol (I got banned before for that).

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Naw, im pretty sure he wouldn't have to sing a second paeon with a ninja and that fight duration. the dragoon and ninja will get by just fine for 6 minutes on the one paeon and the bard just takes a goad and hes fine. Especially if hes got low ss. I'm not saying forsure that the 630 duration would be higher though, since hteres like a 1 minute gap between the internal release and all your buffs coming up where you literally have nothing. So theres actually a decent chance that ending after the barrage from 4:30+ -> 5ish would leave you at the best available peak for dps.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Wow. Bards need a nerf if they can push 560 dps. Best burst and support mixed in with second best sustained as a range mobile dps is asinine.

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Please note.

> 560 dps bard
> Last Place in DPS by 50 dps

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

The ninja(odolicious)

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<3
And yes, he did say that was a pretty bad run for him. We seperate the DPS so he basically gets 100% uptime on adds or w/e with disembowel on them, though.

His other runs were like, 650 going out of first add phase.

reposting these from reddit but I'm gonna just put THIS here

http://puu.sh/gwr0X/01fb9ec9ac.png
http://puu.sh/gwr9b/27aea30c73.png
http://puu.sh/gwrga/52d3eb17a8.png

dat 590 tho

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

reposting these from reddit but I'm gonna just put THIS here

http://puu.sh/gwr0X/01fb9ec9ac.png
http://puu.sh/gwr9b/27aea30c73.png
http://puu.sh/gwrga/52d3eb17a8.png

dat 590 tho

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I'd just like to note it is incredibly bad to raid with this guy, can't get any good BLM milking ;_;

He's too strong. Makes me wanna reroll BRD.

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

reposting these from reddit but I'm gonna just put THIS here

http://puu.sh/gwr0X/01fb9ec9ac.png
http://puu.sh/gwr9b/27aea30c73.png
http://puu.sh/gwrga/52d3eb17a8.png

dat 590 tho

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This is the dream I wish to live. Instead, I'll have my static BRD live it for me as I raid on my PLD.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I'd just like to note it is incredibly bad to raid with this guy, can't get any good BLM milking ;_;

He's too strong. Makes me wanna reroll BRD.

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Do your best to sabotage his parses for me! Its not fair for the rest of us bards having assholes like him making us look like chumps.

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

Do your best to sabotage his parses for me! Its not fair for the rest of us bards having assholes like him making us look like chumps.

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I try my best to steal his milk but he has my Foe's so I treat him nicely!

In truth I'm surprised he does as much as he does, I do well in T10 and T13 add phases (well, given the circumstances with this crappy push timing my group's DPS does, no RS + Convert for second adds GG), as does my SCH going HAM, so he really doesn't get more than the average BRD does (perhaps less?) but he makes it work somehow

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

reposting these from reddit but I'm gonna just put THIS here

http://puu.sh/gwr0X/01fb9ec9ac.png
http://puu.sh/gwr9b/27aea30c73.png
http://puu.sh/gwrga/52d3eb17a8.png

dat 590 tho

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TBH I am very curious what that group did in T10 to push the bard to 590. I can't say for sure but it gives the feeling that the group was very catered to the BRD to push him to that limit. The numbers from the NIN/BLM/DRG are significantly lower that what you'd expect from a standard strat run; they usually can pull 600 upwards. The earlier post of the 566 BRD parse is probably more "reasonable" and results in a much higher raid DPS compared to this 590 DPS BRD group.

You have any idea what they did, since you appear to know the said players concerned from your reddit replies?

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I'd just like to note it is incredibly bad to raid with this guy, can't get any good BLM milking ;_;

He's too strong. Makes me wanna reroll BRD.

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578 is still incredibly good still to be honest given that runs time. Adds were probably melting as well which meant less flares and Two Raging strikes + Convert. I think you kinda balance it out though by not using caster limit break :3

http://www.twitch.tv/milo575/b/635381114

22:26.

This would have been like my highest run until that sad part at the end haha . I was at 582 with no nin in party, using caster limit break and 1 foes ;-;

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

TBH I am very curious what that group did in T10 to push the bard to 590. I can't say for sure but it gives the feeling that the group was very catered to the BRD to push him to that limit. The numbers from the NIN/BLM/DRG are significantly lower that what you'd expect from a standard strat run; they usually can pull 600 upwards. The earlier post of the 566 BRD parse is probably more "reasonable" and results in a much higher raid DPS compared to this 590 DPS BRD group.

You have any idea what they did, since you appear to know the said players concerned from your reddit replies?

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Significantly lower? It is really hard to do above 600 on a T10 as BLM without the AoE strat, you'd need a very lucky run or your team to not burn the adds hard. Especially if your CDs don't line up like with the push timings I got. DRG can probably be higher, true. I'd need the fight to go on about 20s longer and have crappy team mates to do 600+ myself, or just lots and lots of crits/procs.

Our fights are in no way tailored specifically to BRD at all. If anything they're tailored to just whatever gives as much DPS as we can as a raid, even if we're not doing the AoE strat or pushing world records.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Significantly lower? It is really hard to do above 600 on a T10 as BLM without the AoE strat, you'd need a very lucky run or your team to not burn the adds hard. Especially if your CDs don't line up like with the push timings I got. DRG can probably be higher, true. I'd need the fight to go on about 20s longer and have crappy team mates to do 600+ myself, or just lots and lots of crits/procs.

Our fights are in no way tailored specifically to BRD at all. If anything they're tailored to just whatever gives as much DPS as we can as a raid, even if we're not doing the AoE strat or pushing world records.

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Well yeah, okay maybe not so much about the BLM part, I was looking at the melees more because there are really a handful of parsed 5.5mins run with melees pulling 600+, so your melees are kind of on the lower end somehow.

Anyways I've re-read the reddit thread again and I've missed out the fact that your run doesn't have any caster LB on adds - that probably would allow longer DoT uptime for the BRD's multidot.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Well yeah, okay maybe not so much about the BLM part, I was looking at the melees more because there are really a handful of parsed 5.5mins run with melees pulling 600+, so your melees are kind of on the lower end somehow.

Anyways I've re-read the reddit thread again and I've missed out the fact that your run doesn't have any caster LB on adds - that probably would allow longer DoT uptime for the BRD's multidot.

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Yep, as of this week we're switching to melee LBs. This week was just LB3 plus maybe LB1 later on. Next week it's gonna be melee LB2 ASAP + LB3 near the end because of how the adds give LB, and because the DPS loss you lose from the straight damage difference of caster LB on 2 targets vs melee on 1 isn't so cut and dry - burning the final two adds with caster LB makes you lose lots of multi-DoT uptime, so it evens out.

He definitely got a little more multi-DoT time than a group using caster LB3 but I wouldn't say it's the difference of 30-50 DPS. He's just really, really good at the core of BRD IMO, with basically BiS.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

578 is still incredibly good still to be honest given that runs time. Adds were probably melting as well which meant less flares and Two Raging strikes + Convert. I think you kinda balance it out though by not using caster limit break :3

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Well thank you. Yeah we've got our reasons for stopping caster LB3, still testing which we want but our fastest clear so far is by skipping it so w/e

If you think the T10 adds melting + not getting 3rd RS + Convert is bad, you should see my T13. Imagine the add phase where the Twintania clone is melted so quick, and the BRD/SCH are doing so much AoE/multi-DoTs, on top of literally not getting RS + Convert back up until the final add spawns AKA it gets saved for Bahamut. I only get 3 Flares that set of adds, largely by using a Mega-Ether. I basically just eat at the scraps of AoE I can get, unlike most groups where you can do a full set of RS Flares as BLM, if not multiple rotations.

It sucks. I could do a ridiculously higher amount with a crappy SCH and slightly slower push times, no doubt, but I gotta deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Yep, as of this week we're switching to melee LBs. This week was just LB3 plus maybe LB1 later on. Next week it's gonna be melee LB2 ASAP + LB3 near the end because of how the adds give LB, and because the DPS loss you lose from the straight damage difference of caster LB on 2 targets vs melee on 1 isn't so cut and dry - burning the final two adds with caster LB makes you lose lots of multi-DoT uptime, so it evens out.

He definitely got a little more multi-DoT time than a group using caster LB3 but I wouldn't say it's the difference of 30-50 DPS. He's just really, really good at the core of BRD IMO, with basically BiS.

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Nah definitely not some 50DPS I am looking at. Yaah have done some projections for a BiS BRD with NIN+DRG combi before, but still he is doing a little (about 10ish) more than the projected peak so I was wondering what could have contributed to that. No doubt that he is damn good at his job though. Just that whenever I see great numbers I always like to think back to see what could have contributed to the various numbers etc. It's pretty fun thoughts, because I've never enjoyed such run times at all. I've mostly been to groups and pugs that runs an average of 8mins so what people are doing at 5.5mins run are always intriguing to me. :)

I wish I could have some hands on on a speed run to see what I could pull myself. The thought of no caster LB on 2nd set of adds excites me for a little, because what I've been always running is that the first pair was gunned down fast and when the next pair spawns, the caster LB3 would drop both remaining pair's HP by half and there isn't much for me to multi-dot at all. I'm been pulling around 49Xish for these runs (1 NIN that doesn't give me any goads lol), 2 Paeons + a short 3rd due to TP starved, assuming no shit and deaths happened that requires me to ballad.