Nanamo's age (and Ul'dah's youngest ruler)

According to its flavour text, the Wind-Up Nanamo was created to celebrate Nanamo's tenth anniversary as Sultana, and she was crowned at 15. That would now make her 25.

However, according to the Tales from the Calamity, Nanamo was 16 during the Calamity, which would now make her 21/22.

Am I missing some math or is there a mistake in either text?

Also, who is the poor kid who had to rule Ul'dah at an even younger age?!

Are you forgetting the 5 year time skip right after the calamity?

Also we should maybe take every big patch as an idea that a year has gone by maybe that's why.

In The Sultana's Seven, she was soon to be 16 (15 as of 1572 and 20 as of today).

If the doll was made this year (5[7U]/1[7A]), and celebrates 10 years, she's 25 now and was 20 then.

Looks like you found yourself a discrepancy. :p Let's do some math. *EDIT:* Math irrelevant - matter closed! BALEETED.

I'd just wait for an possible dev. team intervention on this one. If nothing shows up in a little while, I'd try reporting it as a possible text bug in the Localization forums. Sometimes it's truly a bug, sometimes it's not, but either way they do appreciate when people let them know that there might be an opportunity to polish the game.

Rest assured that you haven't stumbled upon a conspiracy to obfuscate the sultana's age for nefarious ends. After a brief discussion with Fern and Oda-san, we managed to clear things up.

First of all, this will be the revised text for the minion description:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

This clockwork doll is a reproduction of a model first crafted in the year of the Calamity to celebrate the tenth anniversary of Nanamo Ul Namo's ascendance to the Ul'dahn throne. Seventeenth in her line, the sultana was crowned when she had seen but five summers.

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To reiterate, the original model was crafted on the eve of the Calamity, and the player-obtainable model is a reproduction. Given her state of mind at the time, you can imagine that the sultana's feelings towards the doll were somewhat mixed.

So how did this happen? Well, Oda-san admits that the JP text is a tad vague, and Fern says he had a brain (eye?) fart when writing the EN. On behalf of them both, I apologize for the confusion.

Oh, and you may have noticed that the following line is not included in the revised text:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

She is not, however, the youngest to have ruled the Jewel of the Desert.

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Don't cry retcon just yet! We cut this only because there wasn't enough space. Feel free to continue speculating what poor child was forced to rule at an even younger age.

Well, that was fast! Thanks (to the whole gang) for clearing that up, and for checking in on us, Corvinoobus!

Time to update our timelines, lol.

Sultana Born 1557, crowned 1562 (Age 5), Calamity / doll crafted 1572 (Age 15), Present Day 5 aka 1 (Age 20)

Lot of familiar dates, there. 1562 was not a good year.

I have no pity for that sultana, she is the RULER and she acts like a doormat. Having a BIG BODYGUARD standing by your side doesn't do anything.

Edit: Every other leader in each part is either feared or respected or BOTH, shes neither.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

Snip.

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Mostly because Ul'dah is a corrupted state, and there's little she can do since she doesn't rule alone. Remember also that there's the Monetarists.

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Originally Posted by BlueThunder

Mostly because Ul'dah is a corrupted state, and there's little she can do since she doesn't rule alone. Remember also that there's the Monetarists.

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If a system doesn't work, tear it down, change and rebuild. I HATE monetarists with a passion cause they are so BLINDED. She may not rule alone but shes at the TOP of power over the others.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

If a system doesn't work, tear it down, change and rebuild. I HATE monetarists with a passion cause they are so BLINDED. She may not rule alone but shes at the TOP of power over the others.

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You forget that that's what she's trying to do, she outright says so at the end of the 2.4 main scenario. But it's not that simple. Already Uldah is the stage of civil war thanks to Teledi Adeji wanting her throne. Can you imagine the chaos and bloodshed that would happen when Lolorito throws his Brass Blades in the mix when Nanamo's intent to take away his power becomes clear? Meanwhile, all Nanamo has to fall back on are the Sultansworn and Rhaubahn, with the Immortal Flames to some extend. You can't change a system when you don't have the military power to back it up when the one you're trying to take power from does.

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Originally Posted by LaurelinKementari

You forget that that's what she's trying to do, she outright says so at the end of the 2.4 main scenario. But it's not that simple. Already Uldah is the stage of civil war thanks to Teledi Adeji wanting her throne. Can you imagine the chaos and bloodshed that would happen when Lolorito throws his Brass Blades in the mix when Nanamo's intent to take away his power becomes clear? Meanwhile, all Nanamo has to fall back on are the Sultansworn and Rhaubahn, with the Immortal Flames to some extend. You can't change a system when you don't have the military power to back it up when the one you're trying to take power from does.

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If conflict does come to pass, the Sultana has more than just the Sultansworn and the Flames. She's good friends with both Merlwyb and Kan-E. If a civil war would break out (I kinda hope it does), she can also call on them and hopefully they'll aid the Royalists.

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Originally Posted by LaurelinKementari

You forget that that's what she's trying to do, she outright says so at the end of the 2.4 main scenario. But it's not that simple. Already Uldah is the stage of civil war thanks to Teledi Adeji wanting her throne. Can you imagine the chaos and bloodshed that would happen when Lolorito throws his Brass Blades in the mix when Nanamo's intent to take away his power becomes clear? Meanwhile, all Nanamo has to fall back on are the Sultansworn and Rhaubahn, with the Immortal Flames to some extend. You can't change a system when you don't have the military power to back it up when the one you're trying to take power from does.

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I thought she was giving up her power or something and hoping for Merlwyb and Kan to fix the problem for her. When I saw that I slammed my table.

She is sacrificing her position of power in order to attempt to reform Ul'dah into a democracy.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

She is sacrificing her position of power in order to attempt to reform Ul'dah into a democracy.

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That's not whats needed, making it into a democracy will only lead to more problems for that place. I don't see good things doing that.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

If conflict does come to pass, the Sultana has more than just the Sultansworn and the Flames. She's good friends with both Merlwyb and Kan-E. If a civil war would break out (I kinda hope it does), she can also call on them and hopefully they'll aid the Royalists.

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Unfortunately, there's a lot more to it than that. As corrupt as they are, the monetarists are actually NEEDED in Ul'dah. They're the ones with the money and connections necessary to make Ul'dah a thriving city. Without them, they'll simply take their wealth and power elsewhere, which would leave the already strained Ul'dah in a real pickle.

Lest you forget they're being swamped by refugees daily and the monetarists are already annoyed that their hard-earned coin is going into the public coffers. Take away that revenue and you've lost any chance of aiding the people of Ul'dah or the refugees. When you lose that, the people will get anxious and look towards a leader who is capable of helping them, and that inevitably means people like Lolorito who have not only the money, but the connections necessary to restore order.

I love it when a video game provokes such discussion :)

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Unfortunately, there's a lot more to it than that. As corrupt as they are, the monetarists are actually NEEDED in Ul'dah. They're the ones with the money and connections necessary to make Ul'dah a thriving city. Without them, they'll simply take their wealth and power elsewhere, which would leave the already strained Ul'dah in a real pickle.

Lest you forget they're being swamped by refugees daily and the monetarists are already annoyed that their hard-earned coin is going into the public coffers. Take away that revenue and you've lost any chance of aiding the people of Ul'dah or the refugees. When you lose that, the people will get anxious and look towards a leader who is capable of helping them, and that inevitably means people like Lolorito who have not only the money, but the connections necessary to restore order.

I love it when a video game provokes such discussion :)

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In short, its a Lose/lose battle.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Unfortunately, there's a lot more to it than that. As corrupt as they are, the monetarists are actually NEEDED in Ul'dah. They're the ones with the money and connections necessary to make Ul'dah a thriving city. Without them, they'll simply take their wealth and power elsewhere, which would leave the already strained Ul'dah in a real pickle.

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I think the Monetarists need Ul'Dah more than Ul'Dah needs them, there's no other City-State that'll let them get away with the sort of business dealings that they're used to . . . well, Limsa would but Limsa's all pirates so it's a free-for-all, the system wouldn't protect the Monetarists like it does in Ul'Dah.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

BALEETED.

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COME BACK MOOSEY!! COME BACK MOOSEY'S SISTER!!

She also seams to have the suport of the tharutmags guild in the tales from the calamity they old orders of the guild wer more interested in saving the guilds relics than helping the city. So after the brothers came to help her she gave control of the guild to them.

There's also an npc going to another in the guild telling some one there there's a plan to kill Nanamo.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

I thought she was giving up her power or something and hoping for Merlwyb and Kan to fix the problem for her. When I saw that I slammed my table.

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No she intends to tear down the whole monarchy system so Ul dah can be a true republic. That means throwing away all her power as a ruler and in doing so striping the syndicate of there's. She asked Merwyb and Kan to help step in if it gets out of control since Ul day will be with out a leader or any sort of government they will be able to step in to help keep order till a new one is set up.

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Originally Posted by Corvinoobus

cool lore stuff

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Whoa, I didn't expect such a quick thorough answer, thank you! And yes, this clears up a lot.

Also enjoying the ensuing discussion of Ul'dahn politics. For what it's worth, I think Nanamo is having the right idea, but I hope she'll go about it smart and patient.

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Originally Posted by TheTen

Whoa, I didn't expect such a quick thorough answer, thank you! And yes, this clears up a lot.

Also enjoying the ensuing discussion of Ul'dahn politics. For what it's wroth, I think Nanamo is having the right idea, but I hope she'll go about it smart and patient.

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I think a big part of the poblem, that other Warriors of Light in these forums have with her, is really the fact that she is 25. It's also why I don't expect her to be as wise as you might be looking for. She's still just a little girl. . . that's not a lalafell joke. <or is it?>

Well she recognizes the fact that she is 20 and everyone belittles her, but she is smarter than she appears to be. Destroying her power, the monarchy system, to stop the fight for supreme power (that is to say Lolorito getting to throne and being all tyrannical and stuff) and try to make a democracy which is a bit (just a little bit) easier to keep things stable.

Still this change has no win whatsoever in the near future it will become chaos and pretty much everyone will lose, however seeing the merchant city-state it is in the long run it will benefit Ul'dah to become a democracy.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

I have no pity for that sultana, she is the RULER and she acts like a doormat. Having a BIG BODYGUARD standing by your side doesn't do anything.

Edit: Every other leader in each part is either feared or respected or BOTH, shes neither.

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Gridania is some sort of Anarchist Utopia, with Kan-E-Senna acting more like a spiritual leader than a ruler.
Limsa is essentially a Pirate's Den. Merylwyb was jsut the person who rose above with a plan to bring order to the so-called city, and the strength to gather allies to her cause (either by agreeing with her that something must be done, or sheer brute force at the point of a gun). Nobody wants to or dares go against her, simply put.

Nou Ul'dah is another thing entirely. It's House of Cards meet fucking Game of Thrones there, bitches. Neither She or Raubahnn have control over the city, simply cuz the place is corrupted beyond recovery. My guess is that the only thing keeping her from being offed is fear of popular revolt.

She's not weak, problem is her position as leader was crushed before she was even born.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

If a system doesn't work, tear it down, change and rebuild. I HATE monetarists with a passion cause they are so BLINDED. She may not rule alone but shes at the TOP of power over the others.

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You can't just go, "Guys, I have the power, so we're changing our politics!" and expect the rest of the government to go, "Seems legit, OK, we won't raise a fuss." and the people go, "Certainly not a grab for power, legit, would support 10/10."

Also crowned age 5. Holy crud. Poor Lalafellin childhood...! (Wait, do Lalafell reach adulthood at five?!)

so...since we know her age... is she the result of "sultana's lap"? :X

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Originally Posted by Ramen

so...since we know her age... is she the result of "sultana's lap"? :X

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The Sultana in the Sultana's Lap is actually Nanamo's mother. The name of that room is a very subtle nod towards several pieces of Eorzean history. I don't think many (if any) people have even picked up on it. It also just happens to be one of my favorite pieces of FFXIV trivia ever. It got a quick mention back in our Fan Fest interview.

All over La Noscea are cave systems and hidden bays once used by the great pirate lord Mistbeard to hide and transport his booty. Some are abandoned, some were destroyed in the Calamity, and some have been taken over by other pirate crews now that Mistbeard has vanished. Sashtasha is a grotto that connects to one of Mistbeard's old bases, which runs under the territory now claimed by the Sahagin in Western La Noscea. Even before the Calamity, it had been taken over by Serpent Reavers.

One of the most famous tales of Mistbeard's exploits focuses on the wedding day of Ul'dah's previous Sultan, Nanamo's father. In the middle of the celebration, Mistbeard's crew stole into the royal vaults, making off with a fortune in Allagan gold. But while his crew was busy making ready the escape, legend has it that Mistbeard was off seducing the soon-to-be Sultana, adding her... erm... virtue to the haul. So, the treasure room of Mistbeard's old cove houses the Sultana's Lap.

Mistbeard was saying that it was a good place to... admirest thy booty, if you know what I mean. A good place to... dropest thine anchor...

So ... did Grand Storm Marshal Eynzahr Slafyrsyn once bone the Sultana's mother? Who's to say which parts of pirate legend are truth and which just made for a great drinking story, further and further exaggerated from one sloshed buccaneer to the next. The world may never know... but some do say Nanamo Ul Namo bears a striking resemblance to a certain roguish pirate...

:::blink:::

:::blink:::

:::blinkblink:::

Oyyyy...

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

If a system doesn't work, tear it down, change and rebuild. I HATE monetarists with a passion cause they are so BLINDED. She may not rule alone but shes at the TOP of power over the others.

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"No doubt you've discovered that loyalty is no longer the currency of the realm"

"Then what is?"

"...I'm afraid currency is the currency of the realm."

my opinion she get crowned to young in result the monetarist control every single thing in the city (the money, corruption and etc) the royalist can't do nothing because he not have the connection and the money to rebuild the reputation sure he have the other city state to call help but i think if the sultana call help that appear in a weakness to other city and maybe limsa or gridania or maybe the ishgard or garlemald make a invasion on Ul'dah to have more terrictory and more power sure kan-e-senna and merlwyb gonna not tell her the city state gonna invade Ul'dah actually to hide he card well we see that in the next pacth what position take.

All this talk of money as power; and emotional devotion as power, misses the real target. And it doesn't surprise me.

The only, the One True Source of power, is this - the ability to kill, and the will to do so.

The richest man or woman in the world is nothing before the blade of a patriot, an assassin, or a simple quiet man with a plan.

Now, people tend to chime in here about "slippery slope" and "you can't kill everyone" and "you psychopath!" and suchlike.

They are limited in their outlook.

There is no slippery slope ("If you start killing, they start killing back, ad infinitum...") if you are thorough.

You CAN kill everyone, with enough determination and resourcefulness - and resources.

All you need is the will to act.

Nanamo doesn't have that kind of will... that we've seen. Nor does Papashan, or even, yes, Raubahn.


Merlwyb now... there we go... stone cold as necessary. Practical. Realpolitik in action.



Teledji and Lolorito need to sleep with the fishes, aye... and their family, and their supporters, yea unto the tenth generation...

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

You CAN kill everyone, with enough determination and resourcefulness - and resources.

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Actually, even if anyone on Nanamo's side did have the will, I'm not sure they'd have the resources. She may have the Sultansworn and the Flames but the Monetarists also have their own private armies, the Brass Blades are paid by Lololito while the Stone Torches are hired by the Amajina family.

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

All this talk of money as power; and emotional devotion as power, misses the real target. And it doesn't surprise me.

The only, the One True Source of power, is this - the ability to kill, and the will to do so.

The richest man or woman in the world is nothing before the blade of a patriot, an assassin, or a simple quiet man with a plan.

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Teledji and Lolorito are protected by the law, and run Ul'dah from the base of its foundation. They directly control the lives of its citizens. In that sense, they are the most powerful people there. You could theoretically pay a man a ridiculous amount of money to assassinate someone that strong, but can you pay him enough to offset the amount of money one of them goes into protecting themselves?

And how easily could you set up that kind of ploy anyway? To anyone helping you, how do you ensure they stay loyal, when ratting you out would easily be 1000x more profitable to them and their loved ones? If you ignore that, how would you ever go about doing it alone? Even considering you had the funding and loyal partners, how do you match the loyal and much better funded people guarding him?

And if you succeed, who's to say someone like-minded wouldn't step up, or that more chaos wouldn't come from their removal?

I'm always fascinated by lore, and the question of the Sultana's plan has been bothering me for awhile now. I haven't completed the full story yet, so maybe I just haven't seen all the rationale, but wouldn't trying to reform Ul'dah into a republic just give the monetarists MORE of chance for power than anything else?

Sure, the monetarists are deeply entrenched in the current government, but if the structure is just abolished (chaos aside) and replaced with a republic, their money and influence doesn't just vanish. They're still going to have their factions and all of their connections. Their wealth will still carry a lot of weight and be able to influence the outcome of any sort of elections. They could even become the representatives themselves (and that would be likely I think). There would just be no sultana to try and keep them at bay. Florence was a republic, but the Medici family still essentially ran things.

The current situation of Ul'dah is that is basically owned by the Syndicate. Nanamo is only a figurehead with just a minimal fraction of the influence of the Monetarians. The reason because shes still the sultana, is basically that the monetarians dont care as long as she keeps doing her job as figurehead. If she tries to atack directly the Syndicate CAN and WILL get rid of her, and before anyone can say that Nanamo is the Sultana ect. remember that Monetarians hold the power on every aspect of Ul'dah, so if Nanamo gets judged for example by treason with some forged proof, guess on which side the Jury and Judges will be?

Assasination only works when theres few targets and also when the ones who order the assasination are considerable powerful. Operation Valkyria was lead by VERY powerful people and their target was a single one yet they failed despite all. Imagine having to off ALL the Monetarist being backed by a much lesser power than them and hope that nothing goes awry. Also even in the case of some miraculous sucess, the death of the Monetarist will cripple the entire Ul'dah economy destroying the city from inside out in the process.

The Sultan's lineage has probably been losing power and influence since generations ago, power that has been grabbed bit by bit by the Monetarians. What Nanamo tries to do is that even of the money remains on the Monetarians hands, the power to make decisions goes to the people, that way better jobs can be demanded, better laws to protect the weak, lessen the corruption and in essence give Ul'dah people a better life.

The Monetarist will always hold the reins of the economy but right now they got a hold on every aspect of the uldanians lives, they live and die according to the Syndicate wishes and despite Raubahn good intentions hes only one amongst the many voices of the Syndicate

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Originally Posted by Edellis

Teledji and Lolorito are protected by the law...

...Even considering you had the funding and loyal partners, how do you match the loyal and much better funded people guarding him...?

...And if you succeed, who's to say someone like-minded wouldn't step up, or that more chaos wouldn't come from their removal?

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All of those things are the statements, and questions, of people who lack the will of which I speak. Such things are not a consideration of the kind of focused, empowered and determined person (lone, singular) who could pull this off.

Ploy? All it takes is one person, in the right place, with the right weapon, and the Powerful bleed out on the street. And where a new power rises, they also bleed out on the street, and so on, and so on, until the message is delivered, or until the so-called "powerful" wall themselves into ineffective seclusion.

Everyone makes mistakes. Wander out without a guard; go out with insufficient guard; expose yourself to a ranged weapon (or spell) at an opportune moment - especially if your travel schedule is more or less a public record...

The nightmare of every protective detail is NOT bands of conspirators, but the lone attacker from out of the blue.

Nanamo has only to say "Will no one rid me of this troublesome merchant?", and it shall be done.

:)

Sorry but thats a straw argument. Obviously everyone dies when killed but what you are saying is equal to a man armed with a knife having a chance against a machinegun nest on a frontal asault. Despite its obvious fantasy themes, the story tries to be realistic so you dont get ubber assasins that sneak upon dozens of guards and kill his target as easily as slicing a bread. Even if by some kind of miracle the assasin manages to get his kill theres now way that Nanamo will escape unharmed since you cant even take a piss in Uldah without the Syndicate knowing it, and they could easily choose to answer blood for blood or just judge her for murder and get rid of her cleanly and theres NOTHING that Nanamo could do against it. Being realistic the instant that Nanamo tries to do something funny the Syndicate will know it FAST, as saw in some scenes where it was obvious that they are under constant vigilance

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

Sorry but thats a straw argument.

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Nope. Please refresh your memory on what constitutes a "Straw Man".

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

Nanamo tries to do something funny the Syndicate will know it FAST, as saw in some scenes where it was obvious that they are under constant vigilance

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So?

You're thinking too small, too limited, not aggressive enough, not determined enough. Surprise, will, determination, ability and NO HESITATION - this is all it takes.

Poisoned needle in the tip of an umbrella. 6-ilm blow dart loaded with toad toxin. Brush pass. Knife in the kidneys. And away. And on to the next target, and the next, reaping the whirlwind.

The only thing that stops these kinds of events from happening on more or less a daily basis, is our mental conditioning / raising / rearing.

I have acquaintances who are conspiracy-theorist nutjobs. The kind of people who think the world is run by a secret cabal of bankers. They rant and rave and complain and complain about it, but not a one of them is brave enough in their convictions and beliefs, to DO anything about it.

"If you really believe So-and-so is on the Trilateral Commission, get on a plane, go over there, and kill him in the street."

So-and-so is still alive, and my friend just keeps ranting and raving. No faith. No guts. No conviction.


Same situation here. Lack of will, lack of belief, lack of conviction, lack of courage.

I don't think the monetarists are that unified. I remember a comment during the MS which seemed to indicate Teledji wanted to distract Lolorito.

As much of a jerk as he may be, Lolorito may actually have a degree of loyalty simply because the current system works for him. I suspect that Teledji is making a play for power with no interest in sharing it. He's been doing a lot to set himself up as the champion of the refugees. Also remember that two members of the Syndicate, Godbert and Rhabahn, are both unlikely to support such a power play.

I have a feeling he will somewhat succeed in 2.55 in whatever plan he has.

Monetarist in fact are considerably divided but when their common ground which is their current power and benefits are threatened, they will close files and crush the oposition behaving quite similar to the artisan guilds from the Middle Ages (artisan non guild members ended with broken limbs if lucky if they tried to work outside of the guild).

Some part of the Syndicate are fond of the status quo, some are neutral (Godbert probably), others wanna to get rid of Nanamo and Teledji is probably the most radical amongst that faction. To put in mafia like terms one thing is to extort the city, another is bleeding it to death, Teledji is willing to literally destroy Ul'dah plus the city states balance for his own benefit. His actions have probably created a BIG interal turmoil on their ranks. Lolorito seems to have the most symphatizers though

Also theres a reason of why Raubahn, a guy with a balls of steel reputation does not dare to atack them directly and feels quite vexed for the situation