Next-gen Square Enix engine (article)

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08-27-2011, 03:34 PM
Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Next-gen Square Enix engine (article)

The article is located here.

I wonder if they could apply Luminous to FFXIV? Also is this new engine better than Crystal Tools?
08-27-2011, 03:36 PM
LoydTallister

hmmm looks interesting but I don't see them redoing FFXIV after it has only been out for a year. They already did the best they could to keep the graphics future proof for a time. So anyway don't hold your breath
08-27-2011, 03:42 PM
Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoydTallister

hmmm looks interesting but I don't see them redoing FFXIV after it has only been out for a year. They already did the best they could to keep the graphics future proof for a time. So anyway don't hold your breath

Yeah, I'm sure they won't move over to the new engine, but if the new system was better optimized and could be applied to XIV in a reasonable timeframe I would want them to do it. Also (and I'm not sure about this) I think Crystal Tools can't support DirectX 11.
08-27-2011, 03:44 PM
Dreadnought

well remember guys, SE also announced they started working on another large scale MMO. im wondering if they are gonna use this new engine with the new MMO as well as making the new MMO more of a dynamic hack and slash to keep up with the trends.
08-27-2011, 03:45 PM
Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

well remember guys, SE also announced they started working on another large scale MMO. im wondering if they are gonna use this new engine with the new MMO as well as making the new MMO more of a dynamic hack and slash to keep up with the trends.

Actually that's entirely possible, their next MMO could be running on the new engine.
08-27-2011, 03:54 PM
Gramul

Perhaps they will use less giant blocks of cut and paste with this engine.
08-27-2011, 04:32 PM
Dreadnought

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramul

Perhaps they will use less giant blocks of cut and paste with this engine.

im sure there gonna do things alot differently. i have a feeling the new MMO will be PC based if not exclussive and will cater to a faster paced action environment. a few new MMOs coming feature some amazing aerial moves, i wonder if the new worlds will be more on the side of grand theft auto as far as interractivity goes.
08-27-2011, 04:37 PM
Seif

I'm sorry but calling it next-gen is pretty hilarious since it's only made for 360 and ps3 in mind.
Next gen will be the consoles happening after these. Regardless of their tech-specs. Seems a bit of waste of resources though since they only used the crystal tools for a handful of games so far and like all engines CT has probably also been updated several times by now. Luminous is most likely just the 2.0 version of Crystal Tools anyway.

I know I'm not the greatest fan of XII's non-gameplay but one thing I'm absolutely sure of is that XIII is still the most Jaw droppingly gorgeous game when it comes to the technical side of the graphics.
08-27-2011, 06:48 PM
Zenaku

The new mmo could be like WoW base only on PC giving you two sides to pick from but great storyline and Base of both PVP/PVE which would be a good idea seeing how Aion,wow,rift don't really have a storyline within the game like FFXI/FFXIV if you call the few CS and small storyline plots a storyline then i don't know what a storyline anymore lol.
08-27-2011, 07:23 PM
Dyne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

well remember guys, SE also announced they started working on another large scale MMO. im wondering if they are gonna use this new engine with the new MMO as well as making the new MMO more of a dynamic hack and slash to keep up with the trends.

Hmm, if SE is already working on another large scale MMO, it sounds like plan B when they scrap this game lol.
08-27-2011, 07:55 PM
OJtheLIONKing

Porting over an entire game to a new engine is extremely complex and time consuming work. Hell, look at the trouble they're having even optimizing Crystal Tools for this PC, imagine porting all those assets to a new engine. If it had occurred to them that crystal tools might not be the best PC engine a few years ago, they might have programmed this new one with portability in mind, but somehow I doubt that. I think the best we can hope for is some kind of (well programmed!) DirectX 11 inplementation for CT sometime in the future. They did say a while ago that the head of the new engine's dev team was helping them optimize CT, so maybe we'll see some fruits of that labor.
08-30-2011, 02:04 AM
Reinheart

they posted this image on JP site showing the Luminous Engine,

Real Photo:
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...lum18.jpg.html

3D image rendered with Luminous:
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...lum19.jpg.html

Video run through the 3d field: http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/vide...ender.wmv.html

LUM18 = Real Photo
LUM19 = 3d rendered image
08-30-2011, 02:08 AM
thepinksupervisor

What is this trickery they look exactly the same.
08-30-2011, 02:13 AM
Archadius

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepinksupervisor

What is this trickery they look exactly the same.

Because they are. He posted the same link twice lmao
08-30-2011, 02:14 AM
redmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reinheart

they posted this image on JP site showing the Luminous Engine,

Real Photo: http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...lum19.jpg.html

3D image rendered with Luminous: http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...lum19.jpg.html

Video run through the 3d field: http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/vide...ender.wmv.html

Reinheart, I think you got the urls mixed up =) is this the 3D image w/ Luminous? http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...lum18.jpg.html

Or wait... is the lum18 the real photo? Because wow, the lum19 one looks better.
08-30-2011, 02:15 AM
Gramul

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepinksupervisor

What is this trickery they look exactly the same.

They are exactly the same.
Can't view the video right now though. Using a phone that can only play Youtube.
08-30-2011, 02:20 AM
Rydin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Also (and I'm not sure about this) I think Crystal Tools can't support DirectX 11.

It DOESN'T support it... but it could....
DX11 wont magically make the game better though... DX11 allows the programers to use certain features that make the 3D API more efficient.... Whether they'd actually take advantage of DX11 features is another story entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramul

Perhaps they will use less giant blocks of cut and paste with this engine.

I could copy/paste huge polygonal models in Unreal, CryEngine, Id Tech, Anvil.... Its more a matter of design choice than engine flaw.... People should stop blaming this one on the engine.... They decided to make huge, seamless, high texture, high polygon zones... and when they realized it would reduce performance significantly (as it would with ANY current engine) they came up with the (not so original) solution to copy/paste objects to save resources (As well as development costs of time needed to actually create diverse landscapes that size)
08-30-2011, 02:24 AM
Reinheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmage

Reinheart, I think you got the urls mixed up =) is this the 3D image w/ Luminous? http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...lum18.jpg.html

Or wait... is the lum18 the real photo? Because wow, the lum19 one looks better.

Lum18 is real photo, Lum19 is the 3d rendered
08-30-2011, 02:26 AM
Archadius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reinheart

oops you're right its the other way around linked it wrong lol, fixed my post.

Actually it's not fixed lmao

Is 18.jpg the real and 19.jpg the 3D?
08-30-2011, 02:27 AM
Archadius

There we go!
08-30-2011, 02:28 AM
Reinheart

ya 18 is real photo, 19 is 3d image got myself confused
08-30-2011, 02:28 AM
Orca

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyne

Hmm, if SE is already working on another large scale MMO, it sounds like plan B when they scrap this game lol.

They said they wanted maybe 3-5 MMOs running simultaneously. I can't be absolutley sure but i seem to remember an article somewhere where they expressed interest in developing MMO's along the lines of army/fighter jets/shooting, stuff like that. I highly doubt they'd be so bold as to make another MMORPG tailored to the same niche as XI/XIV this soon, it'd be madness given what has unfolded over the past year.
08-30-2011, 02:32 AM
Archadius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reinheart

ya 18 is real photo, 19 is 3d image got myself confused

Hard to tell how well it handles as a whole since it's such a simplistic photo, but damn, it sure does handle simple environments well. I'd like to see something more detailed to really show off this engine.
08-30-2011, 02:38 AM
Cairdeas

This Luminous Engine was a combined effort of Eidos and Square. Parts of it are pulled from the Deus Ex:HR engine, and the other parts are from Crystal Tools. It will be more robust an engine from Crystal tools.
08-30-2011, 02:38 AM
redmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orca

They said they wanted maybe 3-5 MMOs running simultaneously. I can't be absolutley sure but i seem to remember an article somewhere where they expressed interest in developing MMO's along the lines of army/fighter jets/shooting, stuff like that. I highly doubt they'd be so bold as to make another MMORPG tailored to the same niche as XI/XIV this soon, it'd be madness given what has unfolded over the past year.

It really does baffle me as to what type of MMO they could be bringing out next... if it turns out to be Dragon Quest Online, I'd go crazy! But yeah, I'm hoping it's nothing along the same vein as FFXIV. Front Mission Online would be pretty interesting and different.
08-30-2011, 02:40 AM
Reinheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmage

It really does baffle me as to what type of MMO they could be bringing out next... if it turns out to be Dragon Quest Online, I'd go crazy! But yeah, I'm hoping it's nothing along the same vein as FFXIV. Front Mission Online would be pretty interesting and different.

If DQ Online comes out I'll definitely give it a try lol, wonder if they did... if Toriyama Akira gonna do all the art lol

Big time Front Mission fan also but Front Mission Evolved hit me hard... if that's what they think of multiplayer, or even as MMO they have a lot to work on... that game was really really bad... nothing like all the other Front Mission series... gave me a shock.

Romancing Saga Online FTW!! lol j/k
08-30-2011, 02:42 AM
redmage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reinheart

If DQ Online comes out I'll definitely give it a try lol, wonder if they did... if Toriyama Akira gonna do all the art lol

Hehe, Dragon Quest is admittedly, my most favorite RPG series hands down =) I absolutely loved DQIX and so looking forward for any news on DQX. Some folks seem to complain about Toriyama's art... but I think his work has such charm to it!
08-30-2011, 02:43 AM
Roaran

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seif

I'm sorry but calling it next-gen is pretty hilarious since it's only made for 360 and ps3 in mind.
Next gen will be the consoles happening after these. Regardless of their tech-specs.

This is true, but in the article it says:

Quote:

However, the tech – built specifically for PS3, Xbox 360, PC and next-generation consoles – will not be available to external outfits
08-30-2011, 03:13 AM
Gramul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rydin

I could copy/paste huge polygonal models in Unreal, CryEngine, Id Tech, Anvil.... Its more a matter of design choice than engine flaw.... People should stop blaming this one on the engine.... They decided to make huge, seamless, high texture, high polygon zones... and when they realized it would reduce performance significantly (as it would with ANY current engine) they came up with the (not so original) solution to copy/paste objects to save resources (As well as development costs of time needed to actually create diverse landscapes that size)

And I understand that. But I can't help but notice that every game developed with the crystal tools engine uses heavy cut and paste of large areas and terain, as if the tool was spesificly made to create tilesets with high detail. After all, the engine was advertised as allowing SE to better create worlds for modern game systems, and I can only guess being able to simultaniously load similar geometry and textures at the same time would have something to do with that.

I'm just hoping this next engine allows them to be a little more dynamic in their world design. Maybe having the engine geared more towards geography painting rather than large blocky tilesets. And maybe they can learn that areas don't need to be so large, expecially when it serves little other purpouse than to resort to large tiles, make the player take more time walking anywhere, and to bog down the prosessing speed.
08-30-2011, 04:09 AM
Baelari

I vote for FMA online. I'd also like DQ online, because, well, slimes are too cute.
08-30-2011, 05:40 AM
ChiefCurrahee

FMA would be a fun world to play in.
08-30-2011, 05:41 AM
JayvirDeforte

Tactics Online? Hells yeah!
08-30-2011, 06:11 AM
Forbin

I expect a Front Mission MMO to come out.. That would be my best guess if they're going to take from one of their past titles.
08-30-2011, 06:13 AM
Forbin

It wouldn't be called Front Mission Online though.. Since they already did that.. I twas playable through the JP Version of Play Online.
08-30-2011, 06:13 AM
Forbin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Mission:_Online
08-30-2011, 06:30 AM
Rydin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramul

And I understand that. But I can't help but notice that every game developed with the crystal tools engine uses heavy cut and paste of large areas and terain, as if the tool was spesificly made to create tilesets with high detail. After all, the engine was advertised as allowing SE to better create worlds for modern game systems, and I can only guess being able to simultaniously load similar geometry and textures at the same time would have something to do with that.

I'm just hoping this next engine allows them to be a little more dynamic in their world design. Maybe having the engine geared more towards geography painting rather than large blocky tilesets. And maybe they can learn that areas don't need to be so large, expecially when it serves little other purpouse than to resort to large tiles, make the player take more time walking anywhere, and to bog down the prosessing speed.

I can agree with that
08-30-2011, 07:00 AM
viion

If its being developped by current staff it will prolly fail, if they hire outside help might be ok, Dues Ex has been so trash in terms of engine design right now, using the modified crystal tools. Its had such negative support on PC and can barely handle AA (with it off in consoles). Its terrible, hopefully they have it fixed by tomb Raider and defiantly by any new engine because if that continues, they should just stop making engines and go to CGI movies, it is all SE are good at.

lol at the dx11 boasting, better late than never.
08-30-2011, 07:03 AM
Reinheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by viion

they should just stop making engines and go to CGI movies, it is all SE are good at.

Not always... Never forget Spirits Within....
Personally I liked it (just need to think that it's not Final Fantasy) but overall majority of people hated it.
08-30-2011, 07:14 AM
viion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reinheart

Not always... Never forget Spirits Within....
Personally I liked it (just need to think that it's not Final Fantasy) but overall majority of people hated it.

Those that hated it secretly love it.
08-30-2011, 07:19 AM
Genz

Quote:

Deus Ex has been so trash in terms of engine design right now, using the modified crystal tools.

Deus Ex uses the (modified) Crystal Engine from Crystal Dynamics, not the one from Square-Enix.

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